Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

brooke 2

bad2dabone wrote: »

This is absolutely bat**** insane stuff

Pete Hegseth is as crazy as Trump. Apparently, he put a lot of pressure on Trump to pardon that SEAL Gallagher. :mad:

Itssoeasy

brooke 2 wrote: »

Pete Hegseth is as crazy as Trump. Apparently, he put a lot of pressure on Trump to pardon that SEAL Gallagher. :mad:

I think I say a clip on CNN today of this guy Gallagher coming out of a building with his family and he was smiling and laughing. You'd swear everything was grand. Why the hell would you be smiling ? I can understand it would be emotional but smiling is not the first emotion you'd have normally.

brooke 2

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think I say a clip on CNN today of this guy Gallagher coming out of a building with his family and he was smiling and laughing. You'd swear everything was grand. Why the hell would you be smiling ? I can understand it would be emotional but smiling is not the first emotion you'd have normally.

Having read what that thug did to innocent people, I would not be surprised at anything he did. He is an unhinged psychopath. I pity the guys who had to serve with him - one of them gave evidence that, when he was on duty with Gallagher, he shot his gun more often to alert civilians than he ever did at Isis!! And when those guys reported him and gave evidence, they were portrayed as malcontents who could not accept discipline from him. Shades of the type of treatment which was dished out to Maurice McCabe. :mad:

aloyisious

The judge hearing the case on Donald McGahn, former White House [not personal] lawyer for the President and the White House staff has ruled that he will have to testify before the House Justice committee in accordance with the subpoena served on him. Mr McGahn had refused to comply with the subpoena. I do not know if Mr McGahn will throw in the towel or take the ruling to appeal.

Itssoeasy

aloyisious wrote: »

The judge hearing the case on whether Donald McGahn, former White House [not personal] lawyer for the President and the White House staff has ruled that he will have to testify before the House Justice committee in accordance with the subpoena served on him. Mr McGahn had refused to comply with the subpoena.

Can this happen in public or could this be closed door given he was White House lawyer and could just executive privilege all over the shop ?

aloyisious

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Can this happen in public or could this be closed door given he was White House lawyer and could just executive privilege all over the shop ?

One of the news presenters said he can't claim privilege. I don't know if that's correct. One thing that struck me about McGahn [despite him refusing to comply with the subpoena and fighting it through the courts] is that when Don Trump ordered him to fire Rob Mueller as special counsel, he refused and resigned.

That's another flashback to the Nixon era when Nixon's AG Elliott Richardson refused his order to fire Archibald Cox and resigned instead, the special counsel investigating the Nixon administration link to the break-in at the DNC Watergate offices.

The DOJ has just released a statement that it will appeal the McGahn ruling.

The USSC has also blocked the house committee from getting Trump's financial records for now while it has a look at the cases made by both sides on the issue.

Edit: tickertape news updates on the TV screen CNN News says the judge also noted that there is no reason why Mr Trump himself cannot testify. It's a good thing this has happened at the start of a working week. The judge's ruling also applies across the board in respect of anyone complying with Don Trump's order that his Admin staff and Federal employees were immune from and could ignore the Congress committee's subpoenas, as this was what McGahn's refusal case was predicated on.

More editing: re your privilege question, I think that was in effect what the judge struck down by ruling the committee subpoena was to be complied with; NO PRIVILEGE by another name. McGahn was counsel for all the staff there and not just the president when it came to legal issues arising from their white house duties and orders from the president. He would be obliged to give staffers proper legal advice if they thought Don's orders were legally dodgy, even when the advice was not what Don would want him to give.

Re any committee hearings, that would be decided under congress rules as part of the checks and balances system, which I'd image the USSC would be hesitant to disturb in favour of the particular third party to the checks and balances deal, seeing as that party is for trial under the checks and balances. I think the USSC position might, obliquely, be what 26000 Elephants might be referring to below, changing an existing USSC precedent ruling which was made due to similar presidential action circumstances.

26000 Elephants

aloyisious wrote: »

O
The USSC has also blocked the house committee from getting Trump's financial records for now while it has a look at the cases made by both sides on the issue. It's a good thing this has happened at the start of a working week.

I think that was largely expected: it's just kicked the can down the road, and the house committee have already submitted a 'fast track' schedule for the next few weeks. While its easy to kick now: it's going to get a lot heavier and harder to kick next time.

They are running out of road, the walls are truly closing in in them. This will be a big test of Kavenagh, a noted fan of the SC decision against Nixon, that Trumps team are hoping to overcome.

Overheal

https://twitter.com/jeremyherb/status/1199101014651129856?s=20

everlast75

brooke 2 wrote: »

Pete Hegseth is as crazy as Trump. Apparently, he put a lot of pressure on Trump to pardon that SEAL Gallagher. :mad:

Gallagher's lawyer appeared on Fox & Friends and said that not giving Gallagher back his Navy Seal trident was sticking it to Trump. Next thing you know ...

The Daily Beast breaking a story that Trump wants Gallagher to campaign for him. Is almost as if this is some sort of..... quid pro quo!?

everlast75

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1199135926955466753?s=19

I'm sick and tired of the "he's joking" defence already, and I've yet to even hear it on boards

everlast75

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1199060513528913922?s=19

Don't tell me Trump's second personal lawyer is going to jail?

What's the one thing they have in common I wonder...

kilns

to be honest all that is going on currently is bluster, the evidence is there and anyone with morals would get rid of Trump but the republicans sold their souls a long time ago.

The only way of getting Trump out is by defeating him next November, that will be more humilating for him also. If he were to impeached he would leave a martyr. He needs to be resoundly defeated next November and have the humilation of handing the keys over. If he is defeated too hopefully some of his rats like Jordan, Nunez, McConnell, Graham, Kaetz etc will be voted out too.

This is what the Dems need to concentrate on, they need to get one candidate asap and get them ready, get all the money behind them and all the support too. As things stand, the Dem field is too big and by the time they sort it all out whoever comes through will be starting with a disadvantage.

Whats nearly more important is keeping control of the house and trying to win the senate, thats where they can make real change. As it stands the current senate is not fit for purpose as they vote on nothing

Timberrrrrrrr

kilns wrote: »

to be honest all that is going on currently is bluster, the evidence is there and anyone with morals would get rid of Trump but the republicans sold their souls a long time ago.

The only way of getting Trump out is by defeating him next November, that will be more humilating for him also. If he were to impeached he would leave a martyr. He needs to be resoundly defeated next November and have the humilation of handing the keys over. If he is defeated too hopefully some of his rats like Jordan, Nunez, McConnell, Graham, Kaetz etc will be voted out too.

This is what the Dems need to concentrate on, they need to get one candidate asap and get them ready, get all the money behind them and all the support too. As things stand, the Dem field is too big and by the time they sort it all out whoever comes through will be starting with a disadvantage.

Whats nearly more important is keeping control of the house and trying to win the senate, thats where they can make real change. As it stands the current senate is not fit for purpose as they vote on nothing

I really hope he is beaten, the problem I see is what happens next? Don won't take defeat easily and he will say that the elections were rigged against him, wouldn't be surprised if he made a call to arms claiming a coup has taken place etc. If Trump loses next year then I honestly think innocent people may die depending on the rhetoric he spouts.

StringerBell

If he loses it doesn't matter what he tries to do, or says. Sure it will be a sore loser everything is rigged spiel but he will be gone. It will be out of his hands

duploelabs

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I really hope he is beaten, the problem I see is what happens next? Don won't take defeat easily and he will say that the elections were rigged against him, wouldn't be surprised if he made a call to arms claiming a coup has taken place etc. If Trump loses next year then I honestly think innocent people may die depending on the rhetoric he spouts.

Innocent people have already died because of the rhetoric he's spouted

26000 Elephants

StringerBell wrote: »

If he loses it doesn't matter what he tries to do, or says. Sure it will be a sore loser everything is rigged spiel but he will be gone. It will be out of his hands

No, he needs to be put in jail. That's the only way this can end. Anything less will have this nonsense running on and on. The prospect of Teump in prison should be enough to get the GOP to recognise the mistake they have made.

Tuckers admission live on air should be enough to make any GOP stalwart sick to the core.

Gwen Cooper

26000 Elephants wrote: »

No, he needs to be put in jail. That's the only way this can end. Anything less will have this nonsense running on and on. The prospect of Trump in prison should be enough to get the GOP to recognise the mistake they have made.

Tuckers admission live on air should be enough to make any GOP stalwart sick to the core.

Doubt it. If anything, it will be the proof they need to show their voters that there is a deep state conspiracy going on.

DrumSteve

Trump will never end up in prison.

Stallingrad

Another case of brain not connected to mouth syndrome. Trump, launching a commemoration coin, surrounded by women in the Whitehouse to honour the 100 years of women's suffrage.

"I'm curious why wasn't it done a long time ago?"

ELM327

26000 Elephants wrote: »

No, he needs to be put in jail. That's the only way this can end. Anything less will have this nonsense running on and on. The prospect of Teump in prison should be enough to get the GOP to recognise the mistake they have made.

Tuckers admission live on air should be enough to make any GOP stalwart sick to the core.

Trump will not end up in prison.
He is more likely to get the SC to change the terms so he can run for a notional third term than he is to go to prison.


He can't be impeached, he is unlikely to lose to whatever democrat emerges on top of the motley crew of candidates to run in 2020, and he won't go to prison.

aloyisious

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I really hope he is beaten, the problem I see is what happens next? Don won't take defeat easily and he will say that the elections were rigged against him, wouldn't be surprised if he made a call to arms claiming a coup has taken place etc. If Trump loses next year then I honestly think innocent people may die depending on the rhetoric he spouts.

If he had that in mind, he'd be better advised to remember what happened to people who took the same line when they came up against America at their end of days and his quotes about the same people.

jooksavage

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I really hope he is beaten, the problem I see is what happens next? Don won't take defeat easily and he will say that the elections were rigged against him, wouldn't be surprised if he made a call to arms claiming a coup has taken place etc. If Trump loses next year then I honestly think innocent people may die depending on the rhetoric he spouts.

I've been wondering about this too. In 2016, Roger Stone (soon to be inmate #234238) said that Trump might not accept a defeat to Hilary, which was obviously an insane thing to say but look what's happened since then. Trump, with the implicit or explicit approval of the Republicans, smashed one convention after another since 2017. I don't see why the US' proud record of "peaceful transitions of power" should be any different. There's obviously zero chance he'd have any military backing but I wouldn't put it past some heavily-armed yahoos to go on the rampage.

Whatever Trump does or says is irrelevant though if he hasn't got the Republicans behind him. It wouldn't put it past the likes of McConnell or Graham to question the validity of any result that elects a Democrat, especially since it looks like there could be a record turnout - something that Trump is sure to cite as proof positive of voter fraud. If the R's go down that road, American democracy is in serious trouble.

How Trump would spend his retirement is anyone's guess. He's certainly not out of the woods legally but I'd be surprised if a new administration allowed the Justice Dept to make a martyr out of him. My guess though, is that his personal wealth would be under extreme scrutiny and that would probably be enough to make him a permanent fixture on Fox News, constantly undermining any future administration (Democrat or Republican) that didn't include him or his family.

Gbear

ELM327 wrote: »

Trump will not end up in prison.
He is more likely to get the SC to change the terms so he can run for a notional third term than he is to go to prison.


He can't be impeached, he is unlikely to lose to whatever democrat emerges on top of the motley crew of candidates to run in 2020, and he won't go to prison.

He squeezed in by a margin of about 100,000 votes in 3 particular states, in all of whom I believe he's trailing verious democrats in now.

Whoever gets in, even, I think, if it's Biden, there will be nothing like the ambivalence felt towards Hillary Clinton.

What has he done to improve his chances since he came into office? He's shored up his base by being an appalling human being, but he's massively unfavourable outside that. There's a majority in favour of his impeachment.

Due to demographics, there's places like Texas that are coming into play for the Democrats, Florida is always tight, and there's the 3 aforementioned swing states that do not appear to be enamoured of Trump thus far.

Incumbency with a relatively strong economy (at least as far as the electorate believe), should be a slam-dunk for a president, but Trump has done pretty much everything in his power to make winning less likely.

Zubeneschamali

Gbear wrote: »

Incumbency with a relatively strong economy (at least as far as the electorate believe), should be a slam-dunk for a president

This is what he has done to improve his chances, more or less by accident - he has done nothing to overturn the economy.

He has been focused on golf, campaign rallies when there was no campaign, photo opportunities, blundering about on foreign policy, and watching Fox News instead of working.

As a result, he has done very little domestically, and done a lot less damage than an effective Republican President would have done.

So in that one sense, US voters who are not very engaged and don't care about foreign policy or how the US looks on the international stage may give him the benefit of the doubt for not damaging the economy.

26000 Elephants

ELM327 wrote: »

Trump will not end up in prison.
He is more likely to get the SC to change the terms so he can run for a notional third term than he is to go to prison.


He can't be impeached, he is unlikely to lose to whatever democrat emerges on top of the motley crew of candidates to run in 2020, and he won't go to prison.

Not a hope. He has already overplayed his SC card. They have granted the stay, but have also accelerated the appeal deadline: this will be over by the end of February and Trump will without any doubt lose. After that, the SC will continue to distance themselves from him. Without the SC at his flank, SDNY and others are waiting in the long grass. The evidence is mounting: and what we have currently is just the top of the iceberg with DoJ, DoS all withholding evidence and witnesses.

Trump is an asset of foreign powers working to their agenda. If the US is to recover he needs to be put in jail. And will probably die there.

The only way your scenario can work is for a full capitulation of the US constitution to occur and the elevation of Trump as a dictator.

That wont happen, much as Putin, MBS, el-Sisi would relish it.

Water John

If Trump loses the election, he will set up his TV channel to the right of Fox News.
That's the channel he'll be on.
His real trouble is the Court of the Southern District of New York.

ELM327

Gbear wrote: »

He squeezed in by a margin of about 100,000 votes in 3 particular states, in all of whom I believe he's trailing verious democrats in now.

Whoever gets in, even, I think, if it's Biden, there will be nothing like the ambivalence felt towards Hillary Clinton.

What has he done to improve his chances since he came into office? He's shored up his base by being an appalling human being, but he's massively unfavourable outside that. There's a majority in favour of his impeachment.

Due to demographics, there's places like Texas that are coming into play for the Democrats, Florida is always tight, and there's the 3 aforementioned swing states that do not appear to be enamoured of Trump thus far.

Incumbency with a relatively strong economy (at least as far as the electorate believe), should be a slam-dunk for a president, but Trump has done pretty much everything in his power to make winning less likely.

If it's biden, Trump will win the same way as against Clinton.

None of the red states will vote in a socialist like Biden.

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Not a hope. He has already overplayed his SC card. They have granted the stay, but have also accelerated the appeal deadline: this will be over by the end of February and Trump will without any doubt lose. After that, the SC will continue to distance themselves from him. Without the SC at his flank, SDNY and others are waiting in the long grass. The evidence is mounting: and what we have currently is just the top of the iceberg with DoJ, DoS all withholding evidence and witnesses.

Trump is an asset of foreign powers working to their agenda. If the US is to recover he needs to be put in jail. And will probably die there.

The only way your scenario can work is for a full capitulation of the US constitution to occur and the elevation of Trump as a dictator.

That wont happen, much as Putin, MBS, el-Sisi would relish it.

The 2020 election?
Can't see it at all, the democrats don't even have a candidate yet

Water John

Water John wrote: »

If Trump loses the election, he will set up his TV channel to the right of Fox News.
That's the channel he'll be on.
His real trouble is the Court of the Southern District of New York.

Fox news is bad but a trump TV station spewing fake news and alternative facts 24/7 would be the stuff of nightmares.

Gbear

ELM327 wrote: »

If it's biden, Trump will win the same way as against Clinton.

None of the red states will vote in a socialist like Biden.

Sweet thundering Jesus... Biden? A socialist?

Good Lord....

ELM327

Gbear wrote: »

Sweet thundering Jesus... Biden? A socialist?

Good Lord....

Sorry, mixed up one white old man with another (sanders)
mea culpa