Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

StringerBell

Danzy wrote: »

Looks like the Democrats are backing away from impeachment.

Several safe dems saying it's not going to happen.

Adam Schiff saying he hasn't decided on voting for impeachment. That's shocking backtracking.

Em....where do you get your news?

What's your sourcing for this specifically, the several safe dems, the shocking backtracking etc

everlast75

https://twitter.com/ABCWorldNews/status/1199508137625047040?s=09

Sounds strikingly familiar to the answer given to a reporter when he was asked about Michael Cohen and the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. Didn't work out too well for Cohen.

Time for Rudy to break out "the insurance" he said he has if thrown under the bus by Trump.

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ABCWorldNews/status/1199508137625047040?s=09

Sounds strikingly familiar to the answer given to a reporter when he was asked about Michael Cohen and the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. Didn't work out too well for Cohen.

Time for Rudy to break out "the insurance" he said he has if thrown under the bus by Trump.

We have gone this far without Rudy being fired in the Ukraine piece. As far as I am concerned that makes Trump responsible.

Currently Trump is claiming his lawyer acted on American foreign policy without ever even telling Trump.

I want to know why he has not taken action on this issue.

Quin_Dub

A couple of key pieces of info have dropped in the last few days.

The hold was put on the money on the same day as the Trump call

The OMB starting looking for reasons/justifications for putting a hold on the Ukraine money AFTER Trump ordered it.

The Ukraine were informed of the delay in the money quite a while before it was eventually released

Trump was informed by White house lawyers about the whistle-blower at least a week before he released the funds

All of which completely deconstructs all of the current GOP/Trump defences -Not that it will change any of his current supporters minds


While net support for Impeachment grew a little over the course of the hearings , contrary to Trumps claim that it had dropped massively , there are still some worrying data points from the polls.

Public opinion about impeachment remains split along party lines, with about eight in 10 Democrats supportive of impeaching Trump, and eight in 10 Republicans opposed.

The Reuters/Ipsos poll showed that seven in 10 Republicans believed the House inquiry had not been conducted fairly, and most Republicans opposed impeachment for anything short of outright lawbreaking by the president.

Four in 10 Republicans agreed that a president who uses his powers for financial gain should face an impeachment inquiry, while three in 10 said it would be justified for a president who obstructs justice or harms U.S. interests abroad.

Only two in 10 said an inquiry would be justified for a president who uses his powers for unfair political advantage over an opponent, as Trump is accused of doing.

With those kinds of figures , America has bigger problems than just Trump.

Zubeneschamali

Quin_Dub wrote: »

With those kinds of figures , America has bigger problems than just Trump.

I have seen the point made that the US public thinks all administrations are scandal ridden. Obama and Hillary had Benghazi, the Birth cert thing, Fast and Furious, Bill Ayers, buttery mails etc. etc.

The fact that Obama's administration was actually squeaky clean and these scandals were completely made up is lost in the noise.

StringerBell

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I have seen the point made that the US public thinks all administrations are scandal ridden. Obama and Hillary had Benghazi, the Birth cert thing, Fast and Furious, Bill Ayers, buttery mails etc. etc.

The fact that Obama's administration was actually squeaky clean and these scandals were completely made up is lost in the noise.

The Fox bubble is quite strong. In fairness you can understand it. When you get barraged and conditioned by certain types of media and only know that world view then that is your reality.

It's easy to point and mock but it isn't funny really, as Cuomo would say. Hate the conman but sympathy for the conned.

Of course the country has bigger problems than Trump but I really don't see the solution to the divide anytime soon.

Leroy42

StringerBell wrote: »

The Fox bubble is quite strong. In fairness you can understand it. When you get barraged and conditioned by certain types of media and only know that world view then that is your reality.

It's easy to point and mock but it isn't funny really, as Cuomo would say. Hate the conman but sympathy for the conned.

Of course the country has bigger problems than Trump but I really don't see the solution to the divide anytime soon.

What I find most amazing is the complete about face in terms of Russia. Previously, whether justified or not, Russia was enemy No1. Reds under the bed, the dark to USA light.

And not only has this been turned around we have hosts like Tucker now claiming to be rooting for Russia (yes he claimed it was a joke but to even think he could say it on such a right wing channel is telling).

This to me is the most worrying aspect of the entire Trump affair. Not that he was elected, I get some of the many reasons for that. Not even the bi-partisan nature of the politics, again I can see where it is coming from even if I don't agree.

But a large (millions) of people have completely changed their stance on Russia. Not because of any new information, but simply because they have been told that it isn't that bad.

Gbear

Quin_Dub wrote: »

With those kinds of figures , America has bigger problems than just Trump.

It's pretty much what you would expect for a country with a large cohort that are fanatical Christians.

What small c conservatives often want is a daddy to structure the world for them and keep everything ticking over, unchanging.

That is why they want their presidents to be monarchs.

And to be clear, while I would imagine most conservatives in the US are Republican, far from all of them are.
The Soviet Union didn't do away with all the conservatives by declaring socialism.

aloyisious

Christy42 wrote: »

We have gone this far without Rudy being fired in the Ukraine piece. As far as I am concerned that makes Trump responsible.

Currently Trump is claiming his lawyer acted on American foreign policy without ever even telling Trump.

I want to know why he has not taken action on this issue.

Ditto. Don's statement makes it clear he is aware of Rudy's real-time Trump Administration policy-making activities and that Rudy was usurping the elected president's office and powers. If, after his "you'll have to ask Rudy" statement Don does not fire Rudy and have him arrested for usurping the office Don was elected to, it's at least nonfeasance, if not malfeasance, of office.

Edit: Don's also give Mike Pompeo the resignation-way out of the mess he's in by admitting his lawyer is making foreign policy without any input from Don.

Overheal

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ABCWorldNews/status/1199508137625047040?s=09

Sounds strikingly familiar to the answer given to a reporter when he was asked about Michael Cohen and the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. Didn't work out too well for Cohen.

Time for Rudy to break out "the insurance" he said he has if thrown under the bus by Trump.

Trump really thought that through, when it’s right there in the telcon

Leroy42

aloyisious wrote: »

Ditto. Don's statement makes it clear he is aware of Rudy's real-time Trump Administration policy-making activities and that Rudy was usurping the elected president's office and powers. If, after his "you'll have to ask Rudy" statement Don does not fire Rudy and have him arrested for usurping the office Don was elected to, it's at least nonfeasance, if not malfeasance, of office.

Edit: Don's also give Mike Pompeo the resignation-way out of the mess he's in by admitting his lawyer is making foreign policy without any input from Don.

Exactly. Isn't this the same offence that Flynn did, that basically undermining the administration by undertaking foreign policy without authorisation?

And only now Trump remembers this? After all his talk of the perfect call and the phoney trial, it turns out the the DNC have indeed uncovered a pretty serious plot against the US (taking Trump statement on Rudy as true!).

Surely Rudy should be frogmarched into Congress to explain himself and possibly be facing criminal charges?

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

Exactly. Isn't this the same offence that Flynn did, that basically undermining the administration by undertaking foreign policy without authorisation?

And only now Trump remembers this? After all his talk of the perfect call and the phoney trial, it turns out the the DNC have indeed uncovered a pretty serious plot against the US (taking Trump statement on Rudy as true!).

Surely Rudy should be frogmarched into Congress to explain himself and possibly be facing criminal charges?

The cover up can prove to be worse than the crime, ala Watergate.

People may not be aware but in Watergate, there were 69 people indicted with Trials or pleas resulting in 48 people--many of them top Nixon officials--being found guilty.

This has the potential to sink a lot of ships and those with aspirations of better things (like Pompeo wanting to be a Senator) had better start looking out for themselves.

aloyisious

Leroy42 wrote: »

Exactly. Isn't this the same offence that Flynn did, that basically undermining the administration by undertaking foreign policy without authorisation?

And only now Trump remembers this? After all his talk of the perfect call and the phoney trial, it turns out the the DNC have indeed uncovered a pretty serious plot against the US (taking Trump statement on Rudy as true!).

Surely Rudy should be frogmarched into Congress to explain himself and possibly be facing criminal charges?

Snowballs chance in hell unless AG Barr had a road to Damascus conversion and ordered the FBI to [without prejudice] interview Rudy in connection with Don's public statement about Rudy's "foreign service" activities. I can see Don walking back on it, telling interviewers [on Fox] "I was joking".

Congress could add it to the list of Don's impeachment mal-acts and that's about it unless USSC makes a fast ruling that the federal court judge was correct and the president cannot over-rule congress subpoenas and order him to comply completely with congress in connection to any and all legal subpoenas it issues to people working in the White House.

aloyisious

Re retired General Flynn, apparently he's waiting for the DOJ I/General's report to come out to see if there may be anything in it that'll affect what lead to his departure from his last Trump Admin job.

aloyisious

In reference to how the impeachment moves may have divided the US even further, on the mutterings about an alleged coup attempt to overthrow the elected president, it seems one of the US Christian Show hosts, Chris Wiles, believes in the coup storyline as he is blaming jews for the impeachment effort, saying it's a jew coup to overthrow the constitutionally elected president of the United States. I had wondered when, not if, there would be an overt pushback against the congress hearings on the basis of religion. However, Chris Wiles has history of being all over the place where it come to his "sermons" as he's targeted Ivanka Trump with his outrage in the past and believes the world is being controlled by devils and serpents.

Stallingrad

^

Obama often quoted ML King in that “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice”.

That is being tested now as everything that we thought we knew about the world is tested, but I'd like to believe he was right, and in time we will move beyond this current distortion of norms, morals and values.

Quin_Dub

aloyisious wrote: »

In reference to how the impeachment moves may have divided the US even further, on the mutterings about an alleged coup attempt to overthrow the elected president, it seems one of the US Christian Show hosts, Chris Wiles, believes in the coup storyline as he is blaming jews for the impeachment effort, saying it's a jew coup to overthrow the constitutionally elected president of the United States. I had wondered when, not if, there would be an overt pushback against the congress hearings on the basis of religion. However, Chris Wiles has history of being all over the place where it come to his "sermons" as he's targeted Ivanka Trump with his outrage in the past and believes the world is being controlled by devils and serpents.

I don't think I'll ever not be amazed and terrified in equal measure about the hold that "religion" has over the United States.

I mean we were mocked for ever about being "Holy Catholic Ireland" and all that in the past , but some of the stuff that high profile people come out with is just staggering at times.

I try to imagine the media and public reaction here in Ireland or most other places to the sort of stuff they come out with - Imagine Simon Coveney chatting to Pat Kenny or whoever and saying "Leo is the chosen one and is doing Gods will"

Gbear

Stallingrad wrote: »

^

Obama often quoted ML King in that “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice”.

That is being tested now as everything that we thought we knew about the world is tested, but I'd like to believe he was right, and in time we will move beyond this current distortion of norms, morals and values.

MLK, I assume, made that statement as a Christian, but the universe doesn't care about us. Everyone dies in the end, but that notwithstanding, people get away with horrors all the time.

If the US wants to un**** itself, it's going to have to put in the groundwork.

The only thing you might be able to make a case for is that autocracy is fundementally a form of governance that is out of equilibrium, and through sheer entropy it cannot help but collapse. Democracy is a far more stable system because it's so much better at keeping the majority relatively satisfied, and to prevent them from revolting against the status quo.

There are far, far more people who are not fans of Trump in the US than are. They're going to have to get off their arses and vote if they want to fix this or they'll have to lie in the bed they've made for themselves.

Brian?

Danzy wrote: »

Looks like the Democrats are backing away from impeachment.

Several safe dems saying it's not going to happen.

Adam Schiff saying he hasn't decided on voting for impeachment. That's shocking backtracking.

It's not back tracking to say you're undecided until you hear the evidencd. Otherwise why have the hearings in the first place??

Water John

Gbear, that is quite true. If the Dems get the vote out, despite the suppression, Trump will be toast.

Itssoeasy

Bus meet Rudy. Trump is now saying he never directed gulianni to travel to the Ukraine on his behalf. So he misspoke on the July 25th call to his Ukrainian counterpart then ? Maybe he meant to say "talk to Judy" ?

Water John

You mean Judge Judy?

Professor Moriarty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Bus meet Rudy. Trump is now saying he never directed gulianni to travel to the Ukraine on his behalf. So he misspoke on the July 25th call to his Ukrainian counterpart then ? Maybe he meant to say "talk to Judy" ?

Rudy might cash in on his insurance policy if The Donald isn't careful.

prawnsambo

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Bus meet Rudy. Trump is now saying he never directed gulianni to travel to the Ukraine on his behalf. So he misspoke on the July 25th call to his Ukrainian counterpart then ? Maybe he meant to say "talk to Judy" ?

I'm getting the impression that nobody is bothering to exert any kind of effort to rein him in at this stage. It just seems like the last days of the Roman empire and everybody scrambling to feather their own nests and do their own thing before it all comes crashing down. Just seems like chaos with no apparent direction or goal.

Leroy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Rudy might cash in on his insurance policy if The Donald isn't careful.

He win't need the insurance. He would only need that if he was actually held to account for what he did (according to Trump).

But we have all seen this play out before. Trump will dump someone to save himself and that person will drift quietly away facing no consequences for the apparent actions.

The issue of course is we all know that Rudy wasn't doing anything without POTUS asking him. SO therefore there are no consequences because Rudy did nothing wrong. Trump is just throwing another smokebomb to try to get away.

Thebeast078

This is not good. Two sets of books on his Manhattan property.......

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tower-financial-fraud-lenders-propublica-2019-11?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

He win't need the insurance. He would only need that if he was actually held to account for what he did (according to Trump).

But we have all seen this play out before. Trump will dump someone to save himself and that person will drift quietly away facing no consequences for the apparent actions.

The issue of course is we all know that Rudy wasn't doing anything without POTUS asking him. SO therefore there are no consequences because Rudy did nothing wrong. Trump is just throwing another smokebomb to try to get away.

Of all people, Rudy knows where the bodies are buried. Plus, he's a loose cannon to say the least. He isn't the type to meekly slink away having been thrown under the bus by The Donald. As former Mayor of New York, he would see himself as too high status for such treatment.

pixelburp

I'm still processing how the sitting President's personal lawyer effectively blackmailed his client, on air, threatening skeletons revealed were any move made against said lawyer. It's beyond parody, and how more hasn't been made of this is beyond me. Well, I know why but it's still insane that this is Another Thing That Happened That Will Come to Nothing.

Whatever about Trump, I'm resigned to the belief he will die luxury, if Giuliani somehow avoids jail - or at least disbarment - it'll be a miracle.

prawnsambo

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm still processing how the sitting President's personal lawyer effectively blackmailed his client, on air, threatening skeletons revealed were any move made against said lawyer. It's beyond parody, and how more hasn't been made of this is beyond me. Well, I know why but it's still insane that this is Another Thing That Happened That Will Come to Nothing.

Whatever about Trump, I'm resigned to the belief he will die luxury, if Giuliani somehow avoids jail - or at least disbarment - it'll be a miracle.

I would have thought that anything Giuliani has, would be mutually assured destruction.

Leroy42

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would have thought that anything Giuliani has, would be mutually assured destruction.

Exactly, Rudy has nothing that can not end badly for him as well.

He was just mouthing off, his usual guff but that time he felt he needed to stand up for himself rather than Trump.

Trump is the only protection Rudy has got.