Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

peddlelies

MrFresh wrote: »

Would it not be more likely that the right wing sites don't push stories were their politicians look like fools?

Thanks for proving my point on not caring about bias once it subtly goes along with your political views.

If I recall correctly it was Democrats digging around his high school year book promoting conspiracies with claims of him being involved in some sort of cult in left wing circles online.

MrFresh

peddlelies wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point on not caring about bias once it subtly goes along with your political views.

If I recall correctly it was Democrats digging around his high school year book promoting conspiracies with claims of him being involved in some sort of cult in left wing circles online.

Whether you agree with the purpose of the hearing or not, Graham's contribution to it was embarrassing. Why would people like Fox make a big deal of it when they could go with other material from the hearing?

pixelburp

peddlelies wrote: »

I googled Lindsey Graham at the time of the Kavanaugh hearings after he made that stand, obviously googling him now will yield different results. It was the hottest political topic at that time so claiming now Lindsey Graham yields different results is a moot point.

Point is - when I wanted to see how Lindsey Graham was received on the right in a big political moment, I got linked to three far left sites I NEVER click. Obviously it's not a scientific study on my part.

Obviously. Cos like I said the first 'video' result for Graham was a Fox News snippet, so can I claim right-wing bias for having that network foisted on my results? Swings and roundabouts after all I'm not having a pop at you specifically, but I do think there's a large element of seeing what you one wants to see here. You personally don't like Outlet X, so because Google returns it, there must be conspiracy or bias.

Ask questions of course, and as normal web users it's fairly harmless for us, but I call shenanigans when those screaming conspiracy are those whose modus operandi is ... well, to be blunt, I think half of them are shysters and trolls - Bad Faith actors akin to Alex Jones who delight in "owning the libs". Not relevant to politics but there's evidence that YouTube content creators have more success with "negative" videos, essays that rant & rave (about video games, for example), rather that discuss. Cable News mentality exists online.

And rather than admit these demagogues bought Twitter followers - which depressingly is a thing - they choose to reframe it into a narrative of censorship. With the corporations being young, SanFran, 'coastal elites', the conspiracy practically writes itself.

peddlelies

MrFresh wrote: »

Whether you agree with the purpose of the hearing or not, Graham's contribution to it was embarrassing.

That's your opinion, end of story.

everlast75

peddlelies wrote: »

That's your opinion, end of story.

To be fair, it is reasonable to say that is an objective opinion.

Graham has zero credibility at this stage. He went from one of the most vociferous Trump critics to a drooling sycophant overnight. I'll call out shenanigans from either party when theatrics are at play, and Graham's contribution was nothing more than that. As acting goes, I'd give him a D-.

everlast75

Looks like Acosta is resigning!!!

Hurrache

everlast75 wrote: »

Looks like Acosta is resigning!!!

I thought you were taking off the Jim variety and was wondering why he'd resign until I checked twitter.

Edit, I'm not the only one
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1149675825530363904?s=19

MrFresh

peddlelies wrote: »

That's your opinion, end of story.

Did he even ask a question of the candidate?

aloyisious

Don accepted Alex Acosta's resignation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/12/labor-secretary-alex-acosta-resigned-amid-jeffrey-epstein-fallout/1681245001/

What's surprising is that while this story was breaking, another story was also arising on how Acosta was trying to cut back funding for ILAB from $US 68 Million to $US 18.5 million in Labours fiscal budget. ILAB works to prevent human trafficking and forced labour of children. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alexander-acosta-news-epstein-trump-child-sex-trafficking-press-conference-a8999521.html

pixelburp

I stopped counting, but what's the firing / resignation numbers at now for this Administration? Seems like the last time it came up (maybe about a year ago) it was already a record-breaking number.

Looks like a new Labour Secretary is needed: how critical a role is that in the government? Doesn't seem like one that comes up all that often in debate or discussion. The obvious snark here is a comment about the "best people", but it really does feel like Trump is running out of professional or competent candidates to fill posts...

FartyBlartFast

pixelburp wrote: »

I stopped counting, but what's the firing / resignation numbers at now for this Administration? .

445.

That is not a typo on the 4 either. Alex acosta is the 445th person to leave the trump administration, almost exactly one every other day (weekends included). In terms of business days, it is one down ever 1.4 days.

Leroy42

So Trump fails completely to get his citizen question in the census. He has now had to accept the 'resignation' (he was fired in all likelyhood) of Acosta.

So much winning.

Itssoeasy

What the hell was that well wishing he gave to the UK ambassador earlier ? He claims he was talking mostly about other people and he's said some nice things about Trump. There were english words but none of it made any normal sense to me.

MrFresh

Itssoeasy wrote: »

What the hell was that well wishing he gave to the UK ambassador earlier ? He claims he was talking mostly about other people and he's said some nice things about Trump. There were english words but none of it made any normal sense to me.

Narcissism forces a person to rationalise any criticism against them. Sometimes he will attack the person who criticised him. Sometimes attacks the criticism as being a lie. In this case, Trump has made himself believe the criticism was not directed at him.

TomOnBoard

Leroy42 wrote: »

So Trump fails completely to get his citizen question in the census. He has now had to accept the 'resignation' (he was fired in all likelyhood) of Acosta.

So much winning.

And when Congress and the Courts are finished with the ongoing investigations and legal cases into how Team Trump lied and tried to game the system in their failed attempt to get the citizenship question on the Census, there's gonna be a whole lot more 'winning' for Team Trump to suffer.

Not to mention the awesome 'win' yesterday at the White House, when the collection of right-wing kooks and trolls turned the Rose Garden into a Trump campaign rally brawl through the 'eminent journalist' Sebastian Gorka trying to attack a Playboy journalist/CNN political contributor. Wow! What an awesome win for Team Trump!

Igotadose

TomOnBoard wrote: »

And when Congress and the Courts are finished with the ongoing investigations and legal cases into how Team Trump lied and tried to game the system in their failed attempt to get the citizenship question on the Census, there's gonna be a whole lot more 'winning' for Team Trump to suffer.

Not to mention the awesome 'win' yesterday at the White House, when the collection of right-wing kooks and trolls turned the Rose Garden into a Trump campaign rally brawl through the 'eminent journalist' Sebastian Gorka trying to attack a CNN journalist. Wow! What an awesome win for Team Trump!

I thought it was a Journalist for Playboy(!) that got into it with Gorka.

But yeah, the winning is overwhelming. Soccer team was right, not a safe place to visit the WH.

Manic Moran

StringerBell wrote: »

In one way I can appreciate why the more moderate Dems and Republicans are how they are, as in if they don't try to bridge the gap between them things will only get worse and worse. On the other hand, there are times in life when you simply must fight fire with fire, it is up to everybody to make that decision for themselves individually I suppose.

You could say its an optimist/pessimist v realist problem.

The thing I don't understand is why not to open an inquiry, an impeachment inquiry in the House. Forget the Senate, they aren't going to convict and impeach but it will get as much info as possible out to the public. Issue censure, use it as campaign material for 2020. You won't convince the brainwashed, as sad as it is they are a lost cause and unable to help themselves but you would make sure that the swing voters have as much chance as possible to not vote for this man.

I don't think you'll convince much of anyone. I think by now there is enough evidence out there that anyone who is going to be swayed in their vote by the "moral activity" will be so. In the meantime, I believe Pelosi was around to witness the counterproductive backlash against republicans when they started the Clinton impeachment process. As Leroy correctly points out above, it will simply demonstrate that the democrats are more interested in trying to win by point scoring and character assassination than by simply being the better choice for governing.

StringerBell wrote: »

In one way I can appreciate why the more moderate Dems and Republicans are how they are, as in if they don't try to bridge the gap between them things will only get worse and wors.

I don't think they're trying to bridge a gap as much as they are simply trying to get elected. I had a look at the lass running for KY senator to unseat McConnell last night. There is no way on God's green earth that a Harris or AOC would beat McConnell in Kentucky. On the other hand, a pro choice, pro gun, pro LGBT, anti Medicare-For-All former Marine colonel may well garner enough support to do it.

FartyBlartFast

Manic Moran wrote: »

StringerBell wrote: »

In one way I can appreciate why the more moderate Dems and Republicans are how they are, as in if they don't try to bridge the gap between them things will only get worse and worse. On the other hand, there are times in life when you simply must fight fire with fire, it is up to everybody to make that decision for themselves individually I suppose.

You could say its an optimist/pessimist v realist problem.

The thing I don't understand is why not to open an inquiry, an impeachment inquiry in the House. Forget the Senate, they aren't going to convict and impeach but it will get as much info as possible out to the public. Issue censure, use it as campaign material for 2020. You won't convince the brainwashed, as sad as it is they are a lost cause and unable to help themselves but you would make sure that the swing voters have as much chance as possible to not vote for this man.

I don't think you'll convince much of anyone. I think by now there is enough evidence out there that anyone who is going to be swayed in their vote by the "moral activity" will be so. In the meantime, I believe Pelosi was around to witness the counterproductive backlash against republicans when they started the Clinton impeachment process. As Leroy correctly points out above, it will simply demonstrate that the democrats are more interested in trying to win by point scoring and character assassination than by simply being the better choice for governing.

It is also a potentially huge misstep by Pelosi though, as America has shown on a few occasions now that in very large chunks, it is not interested in being governed and would rather have a reality TV show in place of a functioning government.

At this stage, pretty much anyone still supporting Trump would support him if video evidence of him and Epstein getting up to unimaginably horrible stuff came out. US politics have never even so polarised, and you voters are also largely alienated by 70-somethings who don't seem to be well connected with the younger generations.

It's hard to say fight now, but there is a strong argument that gearing toward mobilizing and engaging those younger voters (who are en route to be a very dominant voting bloc in the very near future), much like Clinton did in 1992 and Obama in 2008, may have been a much wiser option than fighting for the scraps of voters who actually still are undecided, rather than just saying they are.

TomOnBoard

AOC and Tlaib are Democratic Socialists and aren't any more the true face of the Democratic Party than Freedom Caucus members Jordan and Meadows are the true face of the Republican Party. Both the Democratic Socialists and the Freedom Caucus are the noisiest fringes of each party and command a lot of attention because of that.

Both of these groupings appeal to the extreme supporters in each party''s Base, but will totally alienate both extreme and most moderate supporters of the other party, as well as the vast bulk of non-aligned / independent voters.

In order to win 2020 State, Congress and Presidential elections, neither extreme ought to be pushed as being the face of the main party. Pelosi is totally correct therefore in managing the extreme utterances of the extreme left and ensuring that a more moderate message of Democrats is given out. The reason why AOC''s every move is catalogued and debated by the Hannity and Carlson talking heads is to keep their extreme views in the public consciousness and undermine Pelosi efforts at projecting moderation.

Pelosi needs to keep at it. If she can't manage AOC etc and harness their massive charisma and PR power, the Dems will be portrayed as rabid socialists by the vocal Reps. That's how the Dems will fail to unseat Trump in 2020.

FartyBlartFast

I'm not sure which of AOCs policies you would describe as 'extreme'?

Itssoeasy

Lads I think we have a minute silence for that brave solider former speaker Paul Ryan. He's been quoted as saying he was against trump and tried to keep him on track. Ffs sure it's all well and good doing seven months after the fact when you're back home. Any chance ye could have done when in power. I mean it's clear he's trying to rid himself of the stink of trump but it's political opportunism. I mean compare the GOP people who were calling trump every name under the sun and are now his biggest cheerleaders.

DreamsBurnDown

TomOnBoard wrote: »

In order to win 2020 State, Congress and Presidential elections, neither extreme ought to be pushed as being the face of the main party. Pelosi is totally correct therefore in managing the extreme utterances of the extreme left and ensuring that a more moderate message of Democrats is given out. The reason why AOC''s every move is catalogued and debated by the Hannity and Carlson talking heads is to keep their extreme views in the public consciousness and undermine Pelosi efforts at projecting moderation.

Pelosi needs to keep at it. If she can't manage AOC etc and harness their massive charisma and PR power, the Dems will be portrayed as rabid socialists by the vocal Reps. That's how the Dems will fail to unseat Trump in 2020.

I think this is the hardest thing for people outside the US to grasp, that the US bar a few areas like the west coast and north east is predominantly conservative by European standards, and all of the swing states are conservative. Not that they won't vote Democrat as many Democrats and Democratic leaning Independents are quite conservative, Clinton and Obama the examples of where moderate Democrats and Independents voted Democrat in large numbers. Texas for example has a 2:1 ratio of people who identify as conservative versus liberal, but voters in Texas will vote for a moderate Democrat.

If Biden drops out or is forced out, then the key for Democrats is for a candidate to emerge from the pack and move to the center to appeal to moderate Democrats and Independents. If the agenda being pushed by AOC is adopted, this will absolutely result in defeat as an anti-business agenda will not win many votes in conservative states.

It's a very dangerous time for Democrats, there's an election there to be won by staying sensible and appealing to Independents and moderate Democrats, but there simply aren't enough progressives in the states that matter to win a national election. Clinton was a centrist and couldn't beat Trump.

DreamsBurnDown

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

I'm not sure which of AOCs policies you would describe as 'extreme'?

Extreme by US standards. When you accuse Amazon of paying "starvation" wages, when their minimum wage is $15 an hour and the national wage is $7.25 per hour, that is seen as an extreme anti-business view by most Americans.

Accusing the House party leader of racism would similarly be seen as extreme.

TomOnBoard

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

I'm not sure which of AOCs policies you would describe as 'extreme'?

In the context of US politics, anything described as Socialist would be considered as extreme left wing thinking, although such policies would be much more mainstream in Europe for example. The Democratic Socialists of America are ardent Socialists and would be very much on the extreme edge of US politics.

If you'd like to see specifics of what her DSA membership means in terms of her individual policies in practice, take a look at the DSA''s website and policies which they promote. Most if not all of those policies would frighten the bejasus out of most /all middle class US voters and those aspiring to become one.

TomOnBoard

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Lads I think we have a minute silence for that brave solider former speaker Paul Ryan. He's been quoted as saying he was against trump and tried to keep him on track. Ffs sure it's all well and good doing seven months after the fact when you're back home. Any chance ye could have done when in power. I mean it's clear he's trying to rid himself of the stink of trump but it's political opportunism. I mean compare the GOP people who were calling trump every name under the sun and are now his biggest cheerleaders.

That wonderful Irish expression 'slieveen ' comes to mind as an apt characterisation of Paul Ryan.

20Cent

DreamsBurnDown wrote: »

Extreme by US standards. When you accuse Amazon of paying "starvation" wages, when their minimum wage is $15 an hour and the national wage is $7.25 per hour, that is seen as an extreme anti-business view by most Americans.

Accusing the House party leader of racism would similarly be seen as extreme.

15 an hour is starvation wages in NYC.
Trumps own lawyer and many others called him a racist.

DreamsBurnDown

20Cent wrote: »

Trumps own lawyer and many others called him a racist.

.. and that's understandable, but effectively calling Pelosi a racist doesn't help Democrats right now. It feeds the narrative that the party is fragmenting.

RIGOLO

Interesting article in The Examiner this morning

Clearly albeit un-intentionnaly it highlights the hypocrisy and bias of the Democratic Party , the main stream media and the anti-TRumpers...

2014 a migrant and his children drown crossing the Rio Grande -
Obama is in power. The Democratic Party , the main stream media and the anti-TRumpers (even before TRump came to be) couldnt give a crap , it doesnt even register on CNN and no op-eds or Congressional investigations on it.

2019 - Hilary lost her coronation . Donald Trump freely elected POTUS 45
A migrant and his children drown crossing the Rio Grande, and its front page news for weeks on end, The Democratic Party up in arms and the anti-TRumpers are all humanitarians...

History has already written the story on this and it has hypocrisy, politics and liberal left SJW bias written all over it.


This article just cements that story.

While Mexico continues to struggle with drugs, lawlessness and corruption, in more recent times, it has been in the news for its border issues with the US and the treatment of migrants who are being held in intolerable conditions in what many have termed concentration camps.

MacGabhann says the situation is nothing new but he is glad it is now getting more global attention.

“I was covering that story five years ago and the images now are more numerous, but it was just as horrifying then. I’m extremely glad that people’s hostility towards Donald Trump means they’re more alive to the monstrosity of what the US has been doing for such a long time.

“There are people I interviewed in 2014 who died in the same circumstances as that poor father and his daughter [Óscar Alberto Martínez Ramírez who drowned trying to cross the Rio Grande river along with his 23-month-old daughter].


“I talked to people who lost their legs on train rides, and when they were apprehended by border guards they were beaten and mistreated. When they were captured by Mexican authorities they were also put in the same abject conditions. The horror is bigger and we’re more aware of it now and I’m glad we’re paying more attention to it. But it’s nothing new.”

EDIT - let this story also be a warning to everyone about the danger of drug use and its impact on your faculties , the writer claims to have interviewed people who died in 2014 drowning, I think he means he interviewed relatives of these people, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and a book deal also.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/tim-macgabhann-on-mexico-addiction-and-his-debut-novel-936529.html

RIGOLO

TomOnBoard wrote: »

And when Congress and the Courts are finished with the ongoing investigations and legal cases into how Team Trump lied and tried to game the system in their failed attempt to get the citizenship question on the Census, there's gonna be a whole lot more 'winning' for Team Trump to suffer.

Not to mention the awesome 'win' yesterday at the White House, when the collection of right-wing kooks and trolls turned the Rose Garden into a Trump campaign rally brawl through the 'eminent journalist' Sebastian Gorka trying to attack a Playboy journalist/CNN political contributor. Wow! What an awesome win for Team Trump!

you win some you lose some, you cant win them all, at least no right away.

The left , teh anti-TRumpers and main streamn media are all cock-a-hoop celebrating this news on the Census question as a loss for TRump and making it headline news.

So yeah , a setback, The TRump Administration moves on .

This week there was plenty positive news for the TRump Administration a major win for the TRump Administration in its fight against the Opioid epidemic.

The anti-TRumpers, main stream media etc will celebrate TRump admin was stopped putting a citizenship question on the census (GOOGLE has 317 million results for TRump Census Question )

The TRump Administration supporters will celebrate Opioid manufacturers being fined for illegal advertising practices endagering the lives of many young Americans. (GOOGLE has 3 million results for Trump Opioid Fine ... and who denys the media is 90% biased against TRump)

I know which one of those 2 I prefer, saving lives seems a win for me, a question on a piece of paper is a win for the anti-TRumpers.

The antiTRumpers can celebrate the removal of a question from a census form this weekend.

I feel much happier celebrating some inroads being made to tackle the Opioid crisis in America that also has impact all over the developed world.

Reckitt Benckiser to pay $1.4bn fine over opioid treatment sales
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/11/reckitt-benckiser-to-pay-record-14bn-fine-over-opioid-sales

The US president, Donald Trump, declared the opioids crisis, which has killed 200,000 Americans in the past two decades, a public health emergency in 2017.

dr.fuzzenstein

RIGOLO wrote: »

Interesting article in The Examiner this morning

Clearly albeit un-intentionnaly it highlights the hypocrisy and bias of the Democratic Party , the main stream media and the anti-TRumpers...

And I don't need to read any further than that.
Do you honestly think I would read past this or even expect any points that weren't soapboxing and a party political broadcast?
If you want people to engage, maybe try arguing instead of getting up on your little box, plug your ears and shout.
Unless that was never your intention to begin with.