Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Wanderer78

^^ADD does come in handy after all

RIGOLO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And I don't need to read any further than that.
Do you honestly think I would read past this or even expect any points that weren't soapboxing and a party political broadcast?
If you want people to engage, maybe try arguing instead of getting up on your little box, plug your ears and shout.
Unless that was never your intention to begin with.

Thats okay .. you didnt read past there. Its a free country , you and everyone else is free (to a certain degree) to choose what they want to read and whom they want to read.

I did read past there, in fact I also read the article in the Examiner.
Its Saturday morning, Id be the last to force anyone to read anything ...

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

Thats okay .. you didnt read past there. Its a free country , you and everyone else is free (to a certain degree) to choose what they want to read and whom they want to read.

I did read past there, in fact I also read the article in the Examiner.
Its Saturday morning, Id be the last to force anyone to read anything ...

You keep using the term "anti-tRumper" like its an insult. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with being "anti-Trump". That term therefore is clearly an indication of sanity and decency.

Cody montana

everlast75 wrote: »

You keep using the term "anti-tRumper" like its an insult. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with being "anti-Trump". That term therefore is clearly an indication of sanity and decency.

I’m proud to be anti Trump.
I will be on the right side of history.

Anyway, I see the Mueller testimony is delayed for a week.
Is it because Trump was holding a rally on the same day?

MadYaker

Trump clearly doesn’t want him to testify so I think it should happen as soon as possible.

You can tell he feels like he’s dodged a bullet with how this investigation turned out, any talk of bringing it up again has him straight on to Twitter.

pixelburp

Mueller testifying will be an anti climax, we have a full sense of the man's morals and he'll stick to the details of the report. He may have already even said as much. Perhaps in the questioning juicier items will come out but I really don't think Mueller's testimony will form any kind of silver bullet - beyond generating talking points to contribute to the resting continuous bad press this administration brings upon itself.

duploelabs

pixelburp wrote: »

Mueller testifying will be an anti climax, we have a full sense of the man's morals and he'll stick to the details of the report. He may have already even said as much. Perhaps in the questioning juicier items will come out but I really don't think Mueller's testimony will form any kind of silver bullet - beyond generating talking points to contribute to the resting continuous bad press this administration brings upon itself.

The Mueller testimony will give light to the 85% of the senate who haven't read his report

Leroy42

You win some you lose some!

Don't remember Trump saying that on the campaign trail. I do recall him saying that people would be tired of winning. Bit of a drift there.

He lost, spend loads of time and money doing something that not only did he fail but he failed pretty comprehensively.

But instead of critiquing that you come on here claiming that the media is biased. But without saying anything about the media being completely right to now be covering issues such as this one and the fact that they may not have covered it in the past doesn't take away from the shamelfulness of the situation that Trump created.

And lets be clear on this, this is a situation purposefully created by Trump. He failed to get his wall built, created a national emergency, still got nothing done, and so purposefully made the situation worse so that he could claim that things are so bad something needs to be done.

Now if one is to believe Trump then one has a difficult conundrum to try to workout. Why, given all that Trump has done about immigration (according to him), why have the numbers so increased as to place these conditions? So Trump, by his own measure, is failing to control illegal immigration. He said that imposing terrible conditions would stop people coming. So which is it?

Gbear

duploelabs wrote: »

The Mueller testimony will give light to the 85% of the senate who haven't read his report

And an even lower number of the population.

Having it on Fox is going to be the first time many people hear that Trump wasn't vindicated by the Mueller report and not only committed (another) dozen felonies, but also, at a minimum, actively sought illegal aid from Russia and only didn't reach the level of conspiracy through stupidity and ineptitude, and that ongoing stonewalling of efforts to safeguard elections from Russia is deliberate and intended to boost his election prospects.

Danzy

Amazed people are still talking about the Mueller report, upon googling it I see several prominent Republican type commentators mentioning it, bigging it up, for their own reasons, their Trump supporters.

Politically it is a dead end.

2 years wasted by the Democrats, it may well be enough to cost them the election.

duploelabs

Danzy wrote: »

Amazed people are still talking about the Mueller report, upon googling it I see several prominent Republican type commentators mentioning it, bigging it up, for their own reasons, their Trump supporters.

Politically it is a dead end.

2 years wasted by the Democrats, it may well be enough to cost them the election.

Looks like you're in the 85 percentile (if you're a senator)

TomOnBoard

Danzy wrote: »

2 years wasted by the Democrats, it may well be enough to cost them the election.

There was an initial FBI investigation into possible Russian infiltration of the Trump campaign, resulting from counter-intelligence concerns relating to information given by a drunk George Papadopolous. While that investigation was ongoing, the President fired the head of the FBI. Trump's own DoJ then set up the Special Counsel to continue the investigation and expanded it to investigate possible obstruction of justice by the President. Following an extensive investigation, Mueller produced his report.

How was all that a 2 year waste by the Democrats?

Timberrrrrrrr

TomOnBoard wrote: »

There was an initial FBI investigation into possible Russian infiltration of the Trump campaign, resulting from counter-intelligence concerns relating to information given by a drunk George Papadopolous. While that investigation was ongoing, the President fired the head of the FBI. Trump's own DoJ then set up the Special Counsel to continue the investigation and expanded it to investigate possible obstruction of justice by the President. Following an extensive investigation, Mueller produced his report.

How was all that a 2 year waste by the Democrats?

It never ceases to amaze me how many people trot out the "waste of time/money by the Democrats".

It was a Republican investigation yet they never seem to want to admit to this.

PropJoe10

Danzy wrote: »

Amazed people are still talking about the Mueller report, upon googling it I see several prominent Republican type commentators mentioning it, bigging it up, for their own reasons, their Trump supporters.

Politically it is a dead end.

2 years wasted by the Democrats, it may well be enough to cost them the election.

If the Republicans weren't so brainwashed, Trump would be being forced by both the House and Senate to answer some very awkward questions. The Mueller Report was well worthwhile and it's not the fault of the Dems that the Republican Party is possibly the most spineless organisation on God's green earth.

Gbear

PropJoe10 wrote: »

If the Republicans weren't so brainwashed, Trump would be being forced by both the House and Senate to answer some very awkward questions. The Mueller Report was well worthwhile and it's not the fault of the Dems that the Republican Party is possibly the most spineless organisation on God's green earth.

It's not a lack of spines, but of any morals or values of any sort beyond self-enrichment.

Alleged human Mitch McConnell is fully aware of what's going on, as is the party standing in lock step with him and Trump.

aloyisious

The senate and the congress branches of the executive can and do work together, regardless of party faction rows.

Senator Sanders introduces bill to fine and imprison opioid manufacture-firm bosses for making false suggestions that the opioids are not addictive. https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-senator-sanders-introducing-bill-targeting-opioid-manufacturers. April 2018.

The senate and the congress combine to pass legislation on the opioid crisis for the signature of President Trump. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/senate-has-votes-to-pass-massive-legislation-to-combat-opioid-crisis. Sept 2018. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/28/purdues-opioid-settlement-puts-big-pharma-on-notice

Its good to see the federal court system works, with grand jury decisions against big pharma and the courts imposing large fines for false advertising on the effects of their opioid products.

looksee

I have no time for Trump and would entirely believe is an amoral philanderer and worse, but Alva Johnson needs to get over herself. If that kiss was a violation of her person or whatever she is claiming, then she has led a very sheltered life. It was a peck on the cheek in a pretty crowded, social situation from someone she had been working with for most of a year. Her claims are an insult to the people he has assaulted.

Igotadose

looksee wrote: »

I have no time for Trump and would entirely believe is an amoral philanderer and worse, but Alva Johnson needs to get over herself. If that kiss was a violation of her person or whatever she is claiming, then she has led a very sheltered life. It was a peck on the cheek in a pretty crowded, social situation from someone she had been working with for most of a year. Her claims are an insult to the people he has assaulted.

Yeah, it does seem like it's overexaggerated. Alva Johnson might have a few screws loose. I can imagine the Trumplodytes trumpeting with glee over that one.

TomOnBoard

Igotadose wrote: »

looksee wrote: »

I have no time for Trump and would entirely believe is an amoral philanderer and worse, but Alva Johnson needs to get over herself. If that kiss was a violation of her person or whatever she is claiming, then she has led a very sheltered life. It was a peck on the cheek in a pretty crowded, social situation from someone she had been working with for most of a year. Her claims are an insult to the people he has assaulted.

Yeah, it does seem like it's overexaggerated. Alva Johnson might have a few screws loose.

I reckon your first point is fair. Your second point however is unfair IMO. The classifying of these types of allegation as coming from an unsound mind is simply too often used by Trump and his stooges to undermine accusers. I don't think anyone should use such tactics in the face of a sexual allegation by anyone.

TomOnBoard

So, Sanders and Biden have thrown down the gauntlet over Medicare for All.

Bernie wants all US (residents or citizens I dunno) transitioned to MFA over a 4 year period, while Biden wants any faults in Obamacare shored up and allow ppl to keep existing insurance if they wish.

I reckon this is a policy issue that will sink Sanders for good and will also marginalise many other Democrat runners. There is no way that the US is anywhere near ready for MFA and it simply won't run as a mainstream Dem policy in a Presidential Election.

FartyBlartFast

TomOnBoard wrote: »

So, Sanders and Biden have thrown down the gauntlet over Medicare for All.

Bernie wants all US (residents or citizens I dunno) transitioned to MFA over a 4 year period, while Biden wants any faults in Obamacare shored up and allow ppl to keep existing insurance if they wish.

I reckon this is a policy issue that will sink Sanders for good and will also marginalise many other Democrat runners. There is no way that the US is anywhere near ready for MFA and it simply won't run as a mainstream Dem policy in a Presedential Election.

Actually, polls show about 70% of Americans being in favour of this, including around half of republicans. Once you remove the word 'Obama' from the healthcare topic, opinions quickly change among many republicans on it. This is the type of topic that wouod be far more likely to get apathetic you Ger voters out rather than Bidens "dont worry, nothing will change" message.

It is also far more popular among millennials which are what strategists should be tapping into. Their turnout in 2016 was low, yet despite that they made up 31% of the total vote, and by 2020 every millennial will be eligible to vote, as well as even some from whatever we'll be labelling the next (born post 2000) generation.

Given they were tied in 2016, millennials by now comfortably outnumber baby boomers as a bloc - but they need to get otivated to vote. Tru p doing the awful stuff he has is certainly going to do that for a good few of them, but Biden ensuring people that "nothing will change" is not onky going to fail to build on that... it is highly likely to push many of those looking jj to voting in response to the last few years into thinking "what's the point anyway? They're all the same". There is a reason that Russian troll farms pushed that particular narrative so, so hard in the last election, and Biden is too tone deaf to know that it will be the exact same again if he keeps pushing that message.

aloyisious

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

Actually, polls show about 70% of Americans being in favour of this, including around half of republicans. Once you remove the word 'Obama' from the healthcare topic, opinions quickly change among many republicans on it. This is the type of topic that wouod be far more likely to get apathetic you Ger voters out rather than Bidens "dont worry, nothing will change" message.

It is also far more popular among millennials which are what strategists should be tapping into. Their turnout in 2016 was low, yet despite that they made up 31% of the total vote, and by 2020 every millennial will be eligible to vote, as well as even some from whatever we'll be labelling the next (born post 2000) generation.

Given they were tied in 2016, millennials by now comfortably outnumber baby boomers as a bloc - but they need to get otivated to vote. Tru p doing the awful stuff he has is certainly going to do that for a good few of them, but Biden ensuring people that "nothing will change" is not onky going to fail to build on that... it is highly likely to push many of those looking jj to voting in response to the last few years into thinking "what's the point anyway? They're all the same". Biden is too tone deaf to know that it will be the exact same again if he keeps pushing that message.

I've trimmed the Russian troll farms piece from your post. Would you reckon that along with Pelosi V AOC in the Dem party system, the apparent indifference you mentioned on the part of Biden would not be an incentive for Registered Dem voters to get out and vote unless they are lit up by some-one showing them what they have to lose by not voting? I'd imagine that the back room people in the GOP voter Dept are up to date with all that might cause a reduction in the GOP vote result, as against the last election [minus the electoral college help they got then].

dr.fuzzenstein

Trump trashes to Iran deal to spite Obama.
This is absolutely appalling. I'm disgusted, but not surprised.
There are many theories why Trump ran for President. One is that Gwen Stephanie earned more than him on the Voice and this was a stunt to raise his profile, and the other because of the infamous 2011 WH dinner where Obama took the piss out of him.
Whatever it was, it was mainly motivated by spite and greed. Trump is a man who doesn't care one iota about the consequences of his actions, as long as he profits from them. The fact that he is pleased about the failure of his casinos, because it made him money, nicely illustrates that.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7244539/Trump-axed-Iran-deal-spite-Obama-British-ambassador-says-Trumps-actions-diplomatic-vandalism.html

Yes, I'm not a fan of the mail, but various news outlets have picked up this story.

Ben Done

^What's good about the leaks being published, apart from showing that normal, right-thinking people see exactly what we're dealing with in America, is that The Brexit Party seem to be tied in to the leaking of the cables.

Richard Tice was straight out to bat after Oakeshott's first story last week, saying we need a Brexit-focused businessman to be the next US Ambassador, and that there was definitely no need for a police enquiry into the leaks.

Turns out that Tice and the missus split last year and that he is currently shacked up with...
Ms Oakeshott, Bad Boys of Brexit 'author'.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-party-richard-tice-darroch-18206347

Hopefully the police inquiry into the leaks can proceed at pace.

amandstu

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Trump trashes to Iran deal to spite Obama.
This is absolutely appalling. I'm disgusted, but not surprised.
There are many theories why Trump ran for President. One is that Gwen Stephanie earned more than him on the Voice and this was a stunt to raise his profile, and the other because of the infamous 2011 WH dinner where Obama took the piss out of him.
.

How can it be shown that it was not a decision (extremely wrong,in my view) taken out of conviction (insofar as he is capable of it) and simply coloured or justified in his normal crude ,self serving manner)?

I mean the ambassador's assessment is just his assessment .It would be very interesting if it could be stood up . factually I would consider such methods of decision ,if shown to be the case to be in themselves grounds for impeachment .

On a related point I wonder if the US's withdrawal from the Paris Accords would also amount to a crime against humanity (committed by we know who)

everlast75

amandstu wrote: »

How can it be shown that it was not a decision (extremely wrong,in my view) taken out of conviction (insofar as he is capable of it) and simply coloured or justified in his normal crude ,self serving manner)?

I mean the ambassador's assessment is just his assessment .It would be very interesting if it could be stood up

Trump rarely puts things in writing, and he lies through his teeth, so proving anything is quite difficult.

However, what we do have is a trained diplomatic ambassador forming a view based on years of experience in his role leading to his assessment of the man. It just so happens that it is the same view, consistent with any honest appraisal by multiple people who have dealings with him.

So, either Trump is the most misunderstood person in the entire world, or it is the more likely scenario, ie people's view of him is entirely correct.

dr.fuzzenstein

amandstu wrote: »

How can it be shown that it was not a decision (extremely wrong,in my view) taken out of conviction (insofar as he is capable of it) and simply coloured or justified in his normal crude ,self serving manner)?

I mean the ambassador's assessment is just his assessment .It would be very interesting if it could be stood up . factually I would consider such methods of decision ,if shown to be the case to be in themselves grounds for impeachment .

On a related point I wonder if the US's withdrawal from the Paris Accords would also amount to a crime against humanity (committed by we know who)

I have to stop you right there.
Trump's motives so far have been exclusively spite, malice, greed and self aggrandizement.
I don't think it gets any more complicated than that. He is an extremely simple person with extremey crude and transparent motives.
What's so galling about this is that he has swept aside the world's elite with everything he did so far and everyone is kow-towing, appeasing and trying to be reasonable and cooperative.
His tricks are "you got something on your shirt (bups nose)" and "stop hitting yourself".
It's like the dumbest, biggest, stupidest school bully has become class president, get's lauded and heaped with awards and marches straight into a fantastic job.
There is something demonic and supernatural about Trump*, because his natural abilities should have kept him from any kind of success.
He might have been one of those incompetent and beligerent middle management types who coasts through life doing the bare minimum and firing people because he was bored.
Every rule I ever learnt about working hard, applying yourself, being fair and honest and sticking up for other people has been proven wrong by him and I personally resent him for that. (I'm sure Rigolo is sniggering at that)

*
He could have a malignant version of the Closseau or Gump gene.

Leroy42

And the fact that Trulp offered nothing to replace it with, much like his dismal failure to repeal and replace, would point to the fact that he didn't like the deal just because.

Whether it was down to Obama or not is difficult to prove, but it was certainly not based on any deep understanding of the shortfalls in the agreement.

TomOnBoard

Ben Done wrote: »

^What's good about the leaks being published, apart from showing that normal, right-thinking people see exactly what we're dealing with in America, is that The Brexit Party seem to be tied in to the leaking of the cables.

Richard Tice was straight out to bat after Oakeshott's first story last week, saying we need a Brexit-focused businessman to be the next US Ambassador, and that there was definitely no need for a police enquiry into the leaks.

Turns out that Tice and the missus split last year and that he is currently shacked up with...
Ms Oakeshott, Bad Boys of Brexit 'author'.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-party-richard-tice-darroch-18206347

Hopefully the police inquiry into the leaks can proceed at pace.

It appears that the leaker has been identified and the police are now gathering evidence to bring to court.

The Brexit Party link is very disconcerting- it plays into the idea that Farage is being set up to become Ambassador under BoJo. Now that is truly a frightening prospect, but don't discount it completely. This is truly the age of the lunatics running the asylum. ..

Stop moaning ffs

So when the US savages the UK in trade negotiations Nigel will be the ambassador?
Can’t see him being stupid enough to take that job to be honest