Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

peddlelies

Danzy wrote: »

He wants the Dems to rally around AOC and her squad, rather than been cut adrift as Pelosi was aiming for.

That's possible and if it's true I need to recant my reply to aloyisious, for now I'm going to err on the side of stupidity on his part.

I feel like it's way too early to be playing such games, especially when it comes with widespread racism accusations which hold a lot of weight when you look at his comments.

peddlelies

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

As per your own criteria, you are now mocking Holocaust survivors. Classy.

And the sentence makes perfect sense. People who survived concentration camps (both in the US and in flbloody Auschwitz) are saying these children are being put are concentration camps.

So do you support putting children in these concentration camps, or are you claiming survivors of the Holocaust are liars?

Are they? That's news to me. And you're still not making any sense.

https://twitter.com/yadvashem/status/1141267813249835008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1141267813249835008%7Ctwgr%5E393039363b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jta.org%2Fquick-reads%2Fyad-vashem-tweets-link-to-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-to-learn-about-concentration-camps

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/451172-holocaust-survivor-who-offered-to-tour-auschwitz-with-ocasio-cortez-calls-for

"A Holocaust survivor who offered to tour Auschwitz with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) said she should be removed from Congress for spreading “anti-Semitism, hatred and stupidity.”

FartyBlartFast

peddlelies wrote: »

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

As per your own criteria, you are now mocking Holocaust survivors. Classy.

And the sentence makes perfect sense. People who survived concentration camps (both in the US and in flbloody Auschwitz) are saying these children are being put are concentration camps.

So do you support putting children in these concentration camps, or are you claiming survivors of the Holocaust are liars?

Are they? That's news to me. And you're still not making any sense.

No it's not, I literally pointed it out to you a half hour ago.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/holocaust-survivor-yes-the-border-detention-centers-are-like-concentration-camps

Bloch said the conditions reported at the border camps sound painfully similar to her own. “It’s the same conditions I lived through—we never had soap, but we had water, cold water, and not necessarily a shower. No toilet paper. It was inhuman.”

“[In concentration camps] people have no control over their lives,” she continued. “You have to go to sleep when the light goes out, you have to eat when they want you to eat. You can’t express your own thoughts, because you might get penalized for that.”

- - -

It's mainly because of their (the migrants) color and where they’re coming from. But as a rule, humans are not very nice. People like to always look down on somebody else,” she said. “Instead of when you look down to pull that person up, they shove them down more. They don’t want to identify as human beings with those people and that’s a bad attitude. But it’s a human thing.”

Or better again, this one that Trump supporters have mocked time and again:

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/1141174822619242496?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1141174822619242496&ref_url=https://www.huffpost.com/entry/george-takei-concentration-camps_n_5d0be29fe4b0aa375f49b69f

Hurrache

Conveniently ignoring recent statements by the ADL and the head of the ADL I see.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

It seems that the Republican counterpart to AOC, in terms of social media savvy and publicity, is co-freshman Dan Crenshaw. He's not getting much time on the news, presumably because Trump's not attacking him, but he is quite prolific with the tweets, live-streams and youtube videos, he's crossing my feed a lot recently. He's the most-followed Republican on Twitter. Here's his most recent video, on the NDAA. It hits the various social media bases fairly well. It's short, to the point, in plain english, and casually presented. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNiVX5ccbAw . I expect, much as AOC has managed to do to revitalise a lot of the youth vote in the Democrat side, folks like Crenshaw will be doing the same on the Republican side. The balance of power between the old guard (Pelosi/McConnel etc) and the new guard will eventually change to the new generation, but it won't be for one side only.

Who/what has incentivised Crenshaw into [coming] prominence in the Rep party? Has he been a coming person of change for some time now, with differences between him and you know who, and Mitch, along the lines of changing party direction toward things of import to the average voter [personal health, welfare & COL]? Will he be a hands across the house person?

peddlelies

Hurrache wrote: »

Conveniently ignoring recent statements by the ADL and the head of the ADL I see.

Apologies, I was trying to find their stance on the matter on Wiki but I got lost somehow in the middle of all their controversies.

I don't care what their stance is, when I read what she wrote the first time I thought it was idiotic and I still do now. A secondary school history education will tell you that.

Cortez and her group poll terribly nationwide across America, forgive me if I don't swoon over her.

batgoat

peddlelies wrote: »

That sentence/logic doesn't make any sense. Believe what you want, you're not going to change my opinion on the matter.

You accused her of mocking holocaust victims. Survivors of the holocaust have concurred with her as pointed out. Mocking would imply she made of light of the Holocaust in some way, she did not. She had compassion and empathy for children who are actively being neglected. Their human rights are being abused but Trump supporters seem more intent on denigrating those who highlight it. It's a pretty depressing reflection on what US politics has become.

peddlelies

batgoat wrote: »

You accused her of mocking holocaust victims. Survivors of the holocaust have concurred with her as pointed out. Mocking would imply she made of light of the Holocaust in some way, she did not. She had compassion and empathy for children who are actively being neglected. Their human rights are being abused but Trump supporters seem more intent on denigrating those who highlight it. It's a pretty depressing reflection on what US politics has become.

Where?

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=holocaust+survivors+agree+with+alexandria+cortez+&s=g

I did find this

https://twitter.com/ADL/status/1009090073692901377

mcmoustache

I think that there's some confusion out there regarding the term "concentration camps". Some believe that that the term was used exclusively to describe death-camps like Auschwitz.

That's not the case. Plenty of the camps didn't perform ass executions. To bring up a popular star of the camps, Anne Frank died in Bergen Belsen, which didn't have gas chambers.

Nobody would suggest that it wasn't a concentration camp - it was. It just wasn't a death camp.

But still, it's cool to see the semantic argument over whether or not a containment facility for people of a certain class is or isn't a concentration camp.

FartyBlartFast

peddlelies wrote: »

batgoat wrote: »

You accused her of mocking holocaust victims. Survivors of the holocaust have concurred with her as pointed out. Mocking would imply she made of light of the Holocaust in some way, she did not. She had compassion and empathy for children who are actively being neglected. Their human rights are being abused but Trump supporters seem more intent on denigrating those who highlight it. It's a pretty depressing reflection on what US politics has become.

Where?

Twice. In this exact thread. In the last hour. Post 1,054 at 12.05am. Post 1,037 at 11.31pm.

You carry on pretending to have not seen it though.

TomOnBoard

peddlelies wrote: »

aloyisious wrote: »

Ref Don tweeting about AOC & the other Dem congresswomen, I hope they take it carefully and don't fall for his bait. He's trying to provoke them into a public spat and distract from his failings and whatever may be uncovered during the current investigations into his acquaintances.

It was political idiocy. Pelosi and that wing of the Dems were already publicly fighting and it was just heating up with the aoc NYT article, then Trump tweets garbage sticking his nose in and now they're reunited against him.

What goes on in that head of his is anyone's guess.

It's not often I agree with you, but I'm fully with you on this one.

peddlelies

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

Twice. In this exact thread. In the last hour.

You carry on pretending to have not seen it though.

I see one twitter link from a hack and a daily beast article which I read, it's one person. You'll have to do more to convince me, all I see when I search google is responses like the one below.

I'm done with this discussion, it's dragging the thread off topic now. You're not going to change my mind.

https://twitter.com/JCRCNY/status/1141106234705227777

mcmoustache

peddlelies wrote: »

Are they? That's news to me. And you're still not making any sense.

https://twitter.com/yadvashem/status/1141267813249835008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1141267813249835008%7Ctwgr%5E393039363b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jta.org%2Fquick-reads%2Fyad-vashem-tweets-link-to-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-to-learn-about-concentration-camps

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/451172-holocaust-survivor-who-offered-to-tour-auschwitz-with-ocasio-cortez-calls-for

"A Holocaust survivor who offered to tour Auschwitz with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) said she should be removed from Congress for spreading “anti-Semitism, hatred and stupidity.”

His point was that these people shouldn't be there. There was another crowd who had the same idea in the 30's about another class of people who, in their mind, shouldn't be there.

“The people on the border aren’t forced to be there — they go there on their own will. If someone doesn’t know the difference, either they’re playing stupid or they just don’t care.”

I would also be a bit suspicious about a group that's in any way close to Steve "totally not a racist" King.

Ocasio-Cortez publicly rejected the offer after she was urged to participate by Republican Rep. Steve King (Iowa), who previously went on a tour with the group.

Danzy

peddlelies wrote: »

That's possible and if it's true I need to recant my reply to aloyisious, for now I'm going to err on the side of stupidity on his part.

I feel like it's way too early to be playing such games, especially when it comes with widespread racism accusations which hold a lot of weight when you look at his comments.

He started planning for 2020 2 years.

His aim is to damage the Dems first.

He is counting on their reaction and what they'll do.

Nancy Pelosi was called racist by AOC, AOCs chief of staff was accussed of targeting the only native American Congress woman, Biden was portrayed as racist by Harris. Little bit of a job done on Bernie on race by some dems.

People will get worn out from it.

You can guarantee that the accusations of racism, sexism etc will continue to mount in the Dems.

He is banking on it and we all know they'll deliver, long as he can keep AOC and co. on the limelight.

The crazy Trot wing.

They seem to have little interpersonal skills in dealing with colleagues, yet great ability to drove their own supporters their problem is their deep unpopularity with the electorate nationally.

They'll fall out with each other soon enough.

TomOnBoard

On the question of whether there might be any 'logic' behind the racist tweetstorm directed at the 'squad', this caused me to think for a bit: David Axelrod who was Obama's chief election strategist tweeted this earlier

"With his deliberate, racist outburst,
@realDonaldTrump
wants to raise the profile of his targets, drive Dems to defend them and make them emblematic of the entire party.
It’s a cold, hard strategy."

Basically, it's about energising his heartland supporters who may be drifting away from him, by using the "Reds under the Beds" scare tactics from the 1950s to force them back to him.

It sounds plausible that this might be a strategy from his reelection team...

peddlelies

TomOnBoard wrote: »

It sounds plausible that this might be a strategy from his reelection team...

Maybe it is, I wrote a long winded post but I'll refrain until I get some sleep.

It's not like his percentages with minorities is going to improve much before 2020, he'll have a good chunk of the hispanic/asian vote but not much else.

Christy42

TomOnBoard wrote: »

On the question of whether there might be any 'logic' behind the racist tweetstorm directed at the 'squad', this caused me to think for a bit: David Axelrod who was Obama's chief election strategist tweeted this earlier

"With his deliberate, racist outburst,
@realDonaldTrump
wants to raise the profile of his targets, drive Dems to defend them and make them emblematic of the entire party.
It’s a cold, hard strategy."

Basically, it's about energising his heartland supporters who may be drifting away from him, by using the "Reds under the Beds" scare tactics from the 1950s to force them back to him.

It sounds plausible that this might be a strategy from his reelection team...

It won't be the first time the Republicans have played on racism to get elected.

Trump is a flat out racist. Anyone voting for him at the polling booth needs to accept that and be willing to vote for a racist over the other candidate.

Indeed anyone staying home needs to accept that they are willing for others to select a racist to represent them in the world and be ok with that.

everlast75

Thankfully, the choice next year will not be Trump or AOC.

People need to remember that.

EltonJohn69

Ivanka Trump vs AOC 2024 ?

EltonJohn69

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Ivanka Trump vs AOC 2024 ?

That’s assuming that Don jr or Kusher aren’t given the nod to run

everlast75

Peddleslies, Manic, as two posters who, and I think I'm being fair here, are slow to criticise trump or at least try to put some balance into the debate here, what are your views on his tweets and subsequent doubling down?

s7ryf3925pivug

constantly the same. Republicans defend their own seemingly no matter what they do. Democrats attack each other over things that shouldn't be a big deal [not talking about the racism allegations with that comment, which I don't know much about].

Leroy42

Racism should be a big deal.

That the GOP seem more interested in themselves rather than the issue is the real problem.

What else are they sweeping under the carpet under the guise of party unity?

Leroy42

Racism should be a big deal.

That the GOP seem more interested in themselves rather than the issue is the real problem.

What else are they sweeping under the carpet under the guise of party unity?

s7ryf3925pivug

Leroy42 wrote: »

Racism should be a big deal

Yes I agree - and I don't want to seem like I don't. I wasn't thinking about the racism accusations, which I haven't informed myself about. Just a general impression. I don't think Al Franken's photo needed to have been career-ending for example.

pixelburp

Leroy42 wrote: »

Racism should be a big deal.

That the GOP seem more interested in themselves rather than the issue is the real problem.

What else are they sweeping under the carpet under the guise of party unity?

The problem in America is that from what I can see, there's a simmering narrative that effectively amounts to "racism is over", usually centred around the election of Obama. How could there be racism, the thinking goes, when didn't the country elect a black man as Commander & Chief?

Obviously it's incredibly reductionist, but I get the impression that to many folks, racism is Jim Crow, segregation, Selma, riots and many outward or extreme examples of prejudice; icons of the past & dead now. The idea that institutional prejudice or mundane offences might continue to this day is shrugged off or ignored - usually tutted and goalposts shifted (ie, victim blaming, that excuse familiar to sexual assault victims).

Look also to the rank distaste towards any kind of reconciliation or reparations discussion, the largest resistance usually coming from the GOP (recently Mitch McConnell, that beacon of decency, shot down the latest overtures with a snarky comment amounting to "sure wouldn't everyone hurt by slavery be dead?")

It's easy to count yourself as not-racist, if you believe racism doesn't exist anymore; ergo, you can't be racist.

Igotadose

Interesting reading about Julian Assange's activity while at the Ecuadorian embassy: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/15/politics/assange-embassy-exclusive-documents/index.html

"New documents obtained exclusively by CNN reveal that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange received in-person deliveries, potentially of hacked materials related to the 2016 US election, during a series of suspicious meetings at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

The documents build on the possibility, raised by special counsel Robert Mueller in his report on Russian meddling, that couriers brought hacked files to Assange at the embassy.
"

VinLieger

Leroy42 wrote: »

Racism should be a big deal.

That the GOP seem more interested in themselves rather than the issue is the real problem.

What else are they sweeping under the carpet under the guise of party unity?

We know this already, its paedophilia, hence the pizzagate projecting

everlast75

https://twitter.com/jabinbotsford/status/1150855138086707200?s=19

Some have said on here that he has trouble reading, suggesting that perhaps we should feel some pity for him.

As far as I'm concerned, he can go and ....

"Low I.Q. Maxine Waters"?

The hypocrisy never stops.

RIGOLO

Interesting that there were no other Democrats at the The Squads press conference , there was no one wanted to come out and stand beside them .

Trumps first set of tweets were a masterpiece, and the press conference yesterday was a great follow up.

The lines have been drawn, the Democrats have to decide do they align with The Squad who hate all things American , or if they think they will win 2020 by finding another path.

If anything the Democrat party should thank Trump for his tweets, he has just forced the Democrat party to make a decision it was always going to have to make anyways.

Its decision time for the Democrat Party.

Do they align with the anti-American newly elected Congresswoman who do not appeal to the majority of their middle road supporters or swing voters or do they find a way to control 4 newly elected Congresswomen who are dragging their party apart and leading to a 2020 victory for DJT.