Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

RIGOLO

kilns wrote: »

Thankfully the swing voter are not as stupid as Trumps based (people like you) and can see through this American and Anti American crap you through to peddle, the swing voter are more interest in more important things like the economy, healthcare etc etc so try and concentrate on that

62 million, 9 hundred and eighty four thousand, eight hundred and twenty eight votes for TRump in 2016 .

There were millions of swing voters in there, millions, all indications are they havent deserted him .

Thanks for bringing up the economy and the swing voter, the DOW, S&P, NASDAQ all hit record highs last week, 401ks are all looking pretty , and unemployment rates are at their lowest.

I agree the economy is very important to the swing voter , which is why they will vote for TRump who has delivered a great economy in his first term.

Danzy

is_that_so wrote: »

I think The Squad need to step back from this. They seem to have got just a little carried away with all the attention. It's understandable in the context of the latest tweets but like many of the rest of the Dems they are not playing smart politics at all. Smart politics suggests that they clear the bloated field ASAP. It also suggests that they plan out how to beat Trump and select accordingly. Finally they need to get behind their candidate. For now things are still pointing towards his reelection because he doesn't care how dirty he has to get to do so.

The squad are the type that hate their own side more than the opposition.

Swampies of the world unite.

kilns

Danzy wrote: »

The economy is Trump's ace card.

It is red hot.

That and the campaign will be framed for the swing voters as a choice between him, who they might not like and a Democratic Party with a growing cabal of lunatics, who are deeply unpopular in America.

He'll say look, we are making lots of jobs great jobs, the best jobs and I'm the first President in a long time who isn't starting wars, bad wars, the worst wars.

The current economy is the only thing going for him with the swing voters (who he needs), he needs it to keep going for over another year or else he has nothing, just playing the xenophobic card. Economies are cyclical and it will come down but its a matter of when, it is why he is messing about with the China deal, he will eventually cave on that but it will boost the economy and might be enought to get him into the election but I think alot swing voters are intelligent voters too and if they dig under the surface the economy is a house of cards propped up by a fraudster and serial business failure, if they look 5 years into the future the country could be in serious trouble and crying out for help from China, The Saudis etc

is_that_so

kilns wrote: »

I think Pelosi knows this and that is where the internal conflict comes from, but its is just policy conflict for the Dems, despite what Fox news will want to spin it as

I think there are a few of them who also see this but can they wrangle the rest of the rattlesnakes?

is_that_so

Danzy wrote: »

The squad are the type that hate their own side more than the opposition.

I don't think that is the case but they are certainly in a rush to change what will take a whole lot longer.

Christy42

Danzy wrote: »

The economy is Trump's ace card.

It is red hot.

That and the campaign will be framed for the swing voters as a choice between him, who they might not like and a Democratic Party with a growing cabal of lunatics, who are deeply unpopular in America.

He'll say look, we are making lots of jobs great jobs, the best jobs and I'm the first President in a long time who isn't starting wars, bad wars, the worst wars.

He is building working class support with the illegals crackdown, reduction in overseas conflict and the middle class with a booming economy and stock market.

Trump is also a lunatic. A racist one.

He has not reduced over seas wars. Just stopped people reporting them.

Of course it will be his argument. Women in politics are not allowed hissy fits. Trump has one every other week and people don't care. It comes down to whether or not Americans are happy for a racist to represent them. I am not sure I will like the answer.

everlast75

Wow - pro-tRumpers are out in force with the distraction tactics. Let's talk about someone who isn't running for President and how they might destroy the world. I wonder if it is anything to do with the fact that he is an overtly racist president by his own admission and politicians and leaders all over the world are disgusted by him.

You see, the difference between AOC et al and Trump is, they are demonised by Fox and the like. Trump is demonised by his own acts and words.

BTW - a friendly reminder that Trump is an un-indicted co-conspirator in a campaign finance felony and committed multiple felonies of obstruction of justice.

ancapailldorcha

The thing with the economy is that because it is doing well, the Democrats lose their main weapon with which to attack Trump. Without it, all they really have are his appalling personal flaws which, as we've seen either don't trouble his base or actively enthuse them.

kilns

RIGOLO wrote: »

62 million, 9 hundred and eighty four thousand, eight hundred and twenty eight votes for TRump in 2016 .

There were millions of swing voters in there, millions, all indications are they havent deserted him .

Thanks for bringing up the economy and the swing voter, the DOW, S&P, NASDAQ all hit record highs last week, 401ks are all looking pretty , and unemployment rates are at their lowest.

I agree the economy is very important to the swing voter , which is why they will vote for TRump who has delivered a great economy in his first term.

Yet 3 million more voted for Hillary

Where is your evidence that all these swing voters are sticking by Trump?

Exactly the economy is good, but if you know anything about economics (my background) do not rely on stock markets to give an indication of the strength of an economy, if you know why the stock market rose significantly in the last 18 months you would know why. Yes, employment figures are very low and that is a good thing and that is the big positive he has going into 2020 but can he keep that up, what if the unemployment figures start to rise, which will happen at some stage be it in 1 year or 5 years time. He will lose his ace card with the swing voters. The deficit should be something of serious concern for any American and the question should be asked what has he done to deal with this and to prevent potential devastation down the line.

Brian?

RIGOLO wrote: »

Interesting that there were no other Democrats at the The Squads press conference , there was no one wanted to come out and stand beside them .

Trumps first set of tweets were a masterpiece, and the press conference yesterday was a great follow up.

You consider racist and xenophobic abuse a masterpiece?

The lines have been drawn, the Democrats have to decide do they align with The Squad who hate all things American , or if they think they will win 2020 by finding another path.

They don’t hate all things American. That’s a flat out lie.

If anything the Democrat party should thank Trump for his tweets, he has just forced the Democrat party to make a decision it was always going to have to make anyways.

Its decision time for the Democrat Party.

Do they align with the anti-American newly elected Congresswoman who do not appeal to the majority of their middle road supporters or swing voters or do they find a way to control 4 newly elected Congresswomen who are dragging their party apart and leading to a 2020 victory for DJT.

Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true. Wanting to improve America doesn’t make you “anti-American”.

I’ll give you one thing, you’re right about how this is premeditated. It’s classic Roger Stone territory. It’s a disgusting way to play politics, but it’s the only way Trump can win.

He can’t win on morals, he has none. He can’t win on policy, he doesn’t really have a coherent policy platform. The only way he can win is by creating a bogeyman. Hilary is gone so he needs someone else. It’s sickening to watch because it’s all so predictably dishonest. I don’t think he even believes it. I think he believes it’ll get him elected again because it worked last time.

pixelburp

At the risk of personalising the debate, I find it hard to take points of view seriously when they argue that pins of the US flag on a suit jacket are more important than, policies, principles or manifestos for where to take the economy & society. Regardless of whether one agrees with those policies or not. This is exactly the same kind of Poppy Mania we see in the UK year in, year out & asinine jingoism at its finest.

Or indeed the contradiction that those born into wealth are to be admired, while those who work their way across the "American Dream" are to be roundly mocked - despite being manifest, actual examples those pointless pins are meant to extol. There's a naked contradiction that I can't get past, and like I said makes (perhaps) earnest points of view demonstrably contradictory.

everlast75

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The thing with the economy is that because it is doing well, the Democrats lose their main weapon with which to attack Trump. Without it, all they really have are his appalling personal flaws which, as we've seen either don't trouble his base or actively enthuse them.

Play the tape of him saying pre-election he would halve the deficit in no time.

Then show the deficit figure.

Play the tape of him saying that he didn't know anything about the hush money payment. Then show the tape proving he did and lied to the American public in order to influence the election.

Play the tape of Mueller saying he was not exonerated. I am sure there will be a few more effective soundbites come July 24th.

There are 10,000 plus lies from this incompetent ignoramus. Select the most startling ones and play the damn tapes.

35% will stay by this idiot no matter what. Forget about them. Target the decent people who didn't vote the last time.

Hurrache

peddlelies wrote: »

Apologies, I was trying to find their stance on the matter on Wiki but I got lost somehow in the middle of all their controversies.

On Wiki? That's your source on current affairs?! You're always going to be basing your 'argument' on history of a skewed view of the author if that's the case.

I had literally posted the 2 links directly from both the ADL and their head about an hour before your posted the above reply.

peddlelies wrote: »

Where?

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=holocaust+survivors+agree+with+alexandria+cortez+&s=g

I did find this

https://twitter.com/ADL/status/1009090073692901377

Your Google skills are awful.

rossie1977

On paper the Irish economy is doing better than the US one ie unemployment fallen from 16% in 2012 to 4.4% last month, 8.2% GDP growth last year and a budget surplus to boot yet Varadkar is hated by many and there is no TV network kissing his ass nightly or online shows praising him 24/7.

Re vote John McCain received 59,948,323 votes in 2008 out of an electorate of 230 million with Dow spiraling towards 6,000 just a year or so after it hit 14,000 and 800,000 jobs being lost monthly at the time. Trump received 62,984,828 votes in 2016 from an electorate of 250 million.

FartyBlartFast

Besides, unemployment is close to 40%, yet trump supporters never want to talk about that.

everlast75

I would not normally post a tweet by itself, but this appears to be the perfect retort to Trump's nonsense

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1150873085899399169?s=19

Gbear

pixelburp wrote: »

At the risk of personalising the debate, I find it hard to take points of view seriously when they argue that pins of the US flag on a suit jacket are more important than, policies, principles or manifestos for where to take the economy & society. Regardless of whether one agrees with those policies or not. This is exactly the same kind of Poppy Mania we see in the UK year in, year out & asinine jingoism at its finest.

Or indeed the contradiction that those born into wealth are to be admired, while those who work their way across the "American Dream" are to be roundly mocked - despite being manifest, actual examples those pointless pins are meant to extol. There's a naked contradiction that I can't get past, and like I said makes (perhaps) earnest points of view demonstrably contradictory.

There's no ideology. There's no policy. It's all identity.

The Democrats are the only one of the two appealing on the basis of policy. Of course they use identity as well, but for the Republicans that's all they have.

The Democrats need that majority of people who support their policy platform to turn out. Then they will win.

I don't think there's any elected member of Congress or the Senate, or anyone who's going for the Democratic nomination that actually has particularly radical positions that are particularly unpopular among the electorate (even among self-avowed Republicans).

The reason why there's the impression that there's infighting in the Democratic party is because there is, and that's normal. The only reason there's a contrast is because the other party are functionally a cult at this point and neither among the base nor the elected members can any dissent be countenanced.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Couple of posts deleted and cards bans issued. Play the ball, not the man please.

if you've an issue with someone's posts, please report them rather than take potshots on thread.

If you're reporting a post as a copy/paste from elsewhere or a press release, please cite the source of the original content.

Thanks

pixelburp

As ever with Trump, we get obsessed with the noise, smoke and mirrors of his disgusting public persona, instead of sharing the actual, (dys)functioning of the administration. So in that spirit...

... here's a report of a high ranking female politicans who has been caught using her personal email account for Federal business, and not disclosing it. Would it be churlish of me to quote that most infamous of quotes? I think so, but the hypocrisy on show can be too much to ignore such low-hanging fruit:

Lock Her Up?!

https://thehill.com/regulation/other/453150-house-oversight-panel-demands-devos-turn-over-personal-email-records

The House Oversight and Reform Committee demanded Monday that Education Secretary Betsy DeVos turn over all emails from her personal account related to official government business.

The request comes as the panel expands its investigation into whether the Department of Education is in compliance with the Federal Records Act.

[...]

Cummings’s concerns centered on findings from a report published by the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) in May, which found that DeVos used a personal email account to conduct some official business and did not forward these emails to her official account as required by law.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander n' all that, but why do I suspect Trump's anger at such flagrant IT insecurity will go unpunished. Betsy DeVos is some grifter, I'll give her that. Wildly unpopular among teachers, but as with others in this administration, she won't die in poverty.

Quin_Dub

Danzy wrote: »

The economy is Trump's ace card.

It is red hot.

That and the campaign will be framed for the swing voters as a choice between him, who they might not like and a Democratic Party with a growing cabal of lunatics, who are deeply unpopular in America.

He'll say look, we are making lots of jobs great jobs, the best jobs and I'm the first President in a long time who isn't starting wars, bad wars, the worst wars.

He is building working class support with the illegals crackdown, reduction in overseas conflict and the middle class with a booming economy and stock market.

Are they really though?

If you look at the policies they are proposing , they all have fairly high levels of support - someone posted details a few pages back - Things like universal healthcare , increased taxes on the wealthy all had 60+% support and most had higher than 50% support even with GOP voters.

Trump has no way to increase his support base - Well he does but he's incapable of it.

His only path is to ensure that the maximum number of his base actually come out and vote. he cannot have them complacent or disinterested.

He has to have the enraged and energised so he's stoking the hatred and fear amongst them..

Hillary isn't coming to get them , but some young Democrats that aren't on the ticket will somehow steal away everything that his supporters love.

He only deals in fear and anger.

looksee

Considering NO Democrat party member came out in favour of a parade in the Capital celebrating the 4th of July and AMerican Independance.

Ah bless! How can I explain it really simply? That was not a parade celebrating 4th July and American Independence, it was a parade celebrating Trump. Even (especially) the Military did everything they could without actually offering bald insults to play it down and reduce the military aspect.

Macron, on the other hand, had soooo many troops, tanks, planes and helicopters, it was the greatest parade the world has ever seen. (Well not really, but you have to make these things relatable).

pixelburp

Yes, this mention of AOC's unpopularity keeps being brought up as some great prover towards her being a hated figure, but I wouldn't mind seeing some reliable sources of these numbers; there was one shared in passing that SEEMED to pin some of the blame for Amazon on AOC (which IIRC is still coming to NY anyway), but I've not seen any hard data re. popularity of Pressley, Omar, Habib & Ocasio-Cortez. TBH if there's no good data, it should stop being trotted out.

is_that_so

pixelburp wrote: »

Yes, this mention of AOC's unpopularity keeps being brought up as some great prover towards her being a hated figure, but I wouldn't mind seeing some reliable sources of these numbers; there was one shared in passing that SEEMED to pin some of the blame for Amazon on AOC (which IIRC is still coming to NY anyway), but I've not seen any hard data re. popularity of Pressley, Omar, Habib & Ocasio-Cortez. TBH if there's no good data, it should stop being trotted out.

Here's a recent piece. Less about being unpopular than "alarming". Poll was from May. If it does seem to impact in any way in swing states then the Trump approach makes lot of political sense by keeping her in the news.


https://www.axios.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-poll-democrats-2020-aeaa3771-f142-4059-b79e-1fed569dfdf9.html

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

She does, but there are two catches.

One, as Biden, Pelosi and others have correctly observed, she does no favours to the party on the national level. She doubtlessly represents her constituents faithfully, honestly, and to the best of her abilities, but what passes for 'good' in New York City is not always going to match in the Mid-West: The attention she is getting is a point of serious concern as her policies are being conflated with the policies of the Democrat establishment as a whole. The Democrat coming across the news and facebook feeds of someone in, say, Kentucky, is more likely to be AOC than Amy McGrath, but McGrath is far closer to the sort of person who a Kentucky voter will vote for. Although Trump is very much embarrassing himself with this latest batch of tweets, it does have the effect of, again, putting folks like AOC and Omar in front of the more rural mid-western voters, not the people that the Democrats want them to be focusing on.

Second, she's letting her inexperience show, or at least her enthusiasm get the better of it. I can't recall the last time Pelosi put her foot in her mouth in the same manner as AOC saying that NYC would be able to use the billions of tax cuts from Amazon on something else, and she didn't come out great in exchange against former ICE director Tom Homan this week either: She asked questions which had obvious responses she should have anticipated. (That hearing seems to have been something of a crap-show, honestly. Did you catch the full exchange between Homan and Garcia?)

It seems that the Republican counterpart to AOC, in terms of social media savvy and publicity, is co-freshman Dan Crenshaw. He's not getting much time on the news, presumably because Trump's not attacking him, but he is quite prolific with the tweets, live-streams and youtube videos, he's crossing my feed a lot recently. He's the most-followed Republican on Twitter. Here's his most recent video, on the NDAA. It hits the various social media bases fairly well. It's short, to the point, in plain english, and casually presented. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNiVX5ccbAw . I expect, much as AOC has managed to do to revitalise a lot of the youth vote in the Democrat side, folks like Crenshaw will be doing the same on the Republican side. The balance of power between the old guard (Pelosi/McConnel etc) and the new guard will eventually change to the new generation, but it won't be for one side onlly.

Im so glad you've picked up on Crenshaw, It was equally good when he came out condemning the presidents comments on telling american citizens to go home.

It would be like lets say for example an american president telling an Irishman not born in America to go home despite him having citizenship.

Dans the Man alright, I see why you like the cut of his jib


Or do i , I cant tell........ go trump 2020 woooo ?? or not....

pixelburp

is_that_so wrote: »

Here's a recent piece. Less about being unpopular than "alarming". Poll was from May. If it does seem to impact in any way in swing states then the Trump approach makes lot of political sense by keeping her in the news.


https://www.axios.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-poll-democrats-2020-aeaa3771-f142-4059-b79e-1fed569dfdf9.html

Thanks; though even that one seems a little fuzzy, paralleling with the height of the Pelosi-Squad feuding. I was more thinking about each of the Four's relative popularity in their own states/districts; I'm not honestly that surprised on a national level they've reached pariah status.

But as you say, that's back in May which in US-Politics-Time might as well be the 1800s: Trumps racist ranting seems to have had the side-effect of uniting the Democrats, at least for a short time, while suddenly colouring the positions of those 4 congress-women.

If I'm being thoroughly honest I can feel their frustration: in another country they'd be part of another (more left leaning) party, but because you gotta choose Red or Blue they're obviously feeling annoyed at the Washington Games asked of them.

jochenstacker

pixelburp wrote: »

As you yourself mocked AOC for working her way up from bar-work to Congressional member, I challenge you as hating "all things American", because you've shown yourself to hate the very guiding principle of the "American Way if Life"; in that someone rolls up their sleeve and works their way to earn a shot. Maybe pause the rhetoric for a moment and think about the nature of those who you would otherwise praise.

Your mistake is assuming that the American dream and working your way up applies to everyone equally.
It only applies to white, English speaking, Christian Americans from wealthy conservative households.
Everyone else doesn't count, just got lucky and if they're thinking of criticising the master race they should "go back to where they come from".
So, Trump counts as having achieved the American Dream and AOC doesn't, because she's the wrong colour and used to be poor.

If you look at America through the prism of racism and don't assume that the rules apply equally, everything makes sense all of a sudden.

everlast75

jochenstacker wrote: »

Your mistake is assuming that the American dream and working your way up applies to everyone equally.
It only applies to white, English speaking, Christian Americans from wealthy conservative households.
Everyone else doesn't count, just got lucky and if they're thinking of criticising the master race they should "go back to where they come from".
So, Trump counts as having achieved the American Dream and AOC doesn't, because she's the wrong colour and used to be poor.

If you look at America through the prism of racism and don't assume that the rules apply equally, everything makes sense all of a sudden.

Depressingly spot on.

rossie1977

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Are they really though?

If you look at the policies they are proposing , they all have fairly high levels of support - someone posted details a few pages back - Things like universal healthcare , increased taxes on the wealthy all had 60+% support and most had higher than 50% support even with GOP voters.

Trump has no way to increase his support base - Well he does but he's incapable of it.

His only path is to ensure that the maximum number of his base actually come out and vote. he cannot have them complacent or disinterested.

He has to have the enraged and energised so he's stoking the hatred and fear amongst them..

Hillary isn't coming to get them , but some young Democrats that aren't on the ticket will somehow steal away everything that his supporters love.

He only deals in fear and anger.

It's really weird. The media, Republicans and most of top Democrats would have you believe that the ordinary working folks of America are more interested in corporations getting massive tax cuts, a 2,000 mile wall on the border, increased military spending or putting a conservative on the supreme court. Whereas proposals like cheaper healthcare, cheaper higher education, better wages, jobs guarantee, removing corruption in politics are far left ideas that nobody outside whacky communists could buy into.

is_that_so

rossie1977 wrote: »

It's really weird. The media, Republicans and most of top Democrats would have you believe that the ordinary working folks of America are more interested in corporations getting massive tax cuts, a 2,000 mile wall on the border, increased military spending or putting a conservative on the supreme court. Whereas proposals like cheaper healthcare, cheaper higher education, better wages, jobs guarantee, removing corruption in politics are far left ideas that nobody outside whacky communists could buy into.

The Dems will punch each other out on all of these ideas and whoever is left standing will the candidate. Some of them have already come up with a beauty in college debt relief. It's not that they are crazy ideas but likely to be pretty unrealistic in their entirety in any Presidential term.

spacecoyote

Danzy wrote: »

The economy is Trump's ace card.

It is red hot.

The fed does not cut rates with a red hot economy, they do the exact opposite. They increase rates to control inflation & stop the economy overheating.

They cut rates when they're concerned about growth & want to stimulate the economy.

So, if Powell is lining up rate cuts you might get an artificial spike from the market but its usually a sign of not so great times on the horizon