Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

everlast75

is_that_so wrote: »

It's less about their votes and more about how they might be viewed in key battle grounds. They aren't the face of the Dems but they get a lot of attention and suggesting they are is a good political move. Last time people voted for Trump because they disliked him less.

So he attacks them with racist comments and somehow they are the bad guys?

**** voters who can't see the inherent nonsense in that equation.

is_that_so

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So he’s targeted these four ladies and weaponsied their stance in order to make people dislike them (further)? And made them the face of the Democrats?
Do I have that right?
That’s a really dangerous move for them. Omar already received credible death threats a few months back and at least one loon arrested. He left her some horrific voicemails and emails as far as I know.

If that is in fact what trumps done it’s really frightening. Hope I’m wrong.

I'd say it's quite likely for swing states where voters would probably not really share their views. No response is their best response.

is_that_so

everlast75 wrote: »

So he attacks them with racist comments and somehow they are the bad guys?

**** voters who can't see the inherent nonsense in that equation.

If it works electorally, yes. If voters are in states that could go either way that luxury doesn't exist. Gotta tell them what they want to hear.

Leroy42

is_that_so wrote: »

If it is Biden who gets selected it might be less of a problem but they are a prime target in those swing states. As has been mentioned before AOC doesn't have a positive national profile and given how regularly she shows up she's a perfect attack ad. Fox have 2.5m viewers BTW.

But why would they have a national profile? They are in the congress which is 'local' based and has a very low rating itself. I doubt many people can list many of the congress men and women from either party.

They have not run on a national platform so it is disingenuous to rate them as such. As we see every election cycle, those that are planning on running for national office will start to raise their national awareness during the preceding number of years.

jochenstacker

is_that_so wrote: »

If it works electorally, yes. If voters are in states that could go either way that luxury doesn't exist. Gotta tell them what they want to hear.

I'd say best Dem strategy would be to appeal to sensible middle ground voters and non voters.
Knuckle dragging redneck Trumpers are a lost cause anyway and should just be ignored.

MadYaker

jochenstacker wrote: »

I'd say best Dem strategy would be to appeal to sensible middle ground voters and non voters.
Knuckle dragging redneck Trumpers are a lost cause anyway and should just be ignored.

That strat didn't really work for Clinton and Trump sneaked a load of the rust belt states as a result. There's about 30 - 35% of voters who will vote trump regardless but outside of that there are more moderate republicans and slightly right of centre voters who are probably horrified by Trumps antics and could be convinced to vote for a moderate democrat like Biden or some other centre left candidate. These are people the eventual democrat candidate needs to target.

A reality TV star is president of the United States. I just have to remind myself of that now and then.

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

A reality TV star is president of the United States. I just have to remind myself of that now and then.

And in case that wasn't clear, remember he defended Mike Pence's [*] visit to the camps by talking about "Great Ratings!". He's always boasting about attendances, numbers, viewers; as you say he's a reality TV star and I guess if Reagan used his Hollywood experience to play the act of the dignified politician, Trump is the manifestation of the superficial age of Reality TV, who craves attention.


[*] sidebar: why didn't Trump visit the centres anyway? Given the tattle over Trump's apparent germaphobia, perhaps that's a hint, but surely the obvious win would have been for the President to visit, show some compassion, placate those outraged at these totally-not-concentration camps....

RIGOLO

Deleted User wrote: »

A reality TV star is president of the United States. I just have to remind myself of that now and then.

And you can equally remind yourself how things were going so well when we had the professional politicians running the show.
take your pick of any metric of the last 2 decades or more ...

10s of trillions added to the US national debt
wars in afghanistan
wars in iraq
rise of ISIS
600,000 deaths in Syria
millions of refugees fleeing their places of birth
bank bailouts
wall street bailouts
the rich poor divide and disparity growing at rates not seen since the early 20th century
illegal immigrants in cages in 2014
rise of ms-13 gangs
opioid epidemics
plastic pollution of the seas
green house gases escalation
climate issues
US - CHINA trade deficit ballooned
US - EU trade deficit ballooned
the list goes on and on

yep your right an ex reality TV star as well as billionaire business man is president of the United States.

and to think things were going so well when the career politicians were running the show.

Professor Moriarty

RIGOLO wrote: »

And you can equally remind yourself how things were going so well when we had the professional politicians running the show.
take your pick of any metric of the last 2 decades or more ...

10s of trillions added to the US national debt
wars in afghanistan
wars in iraq
rise of ISIS
600,000 deaths in Syria
millions of refugees fleeing their places of birth
bank bailouts
wall street bailouts
the rich poor divide and disparity growing at rates not seen since the early 20th century
illegal immigrants in cages in 2014
rise of ms-13 gangs
opioid epidemics
plastic pollution of the seas
green house gases escalation
climate issues
US - CHINA trade deficit ballooned
US - EU trade deficit ballooned
the list goes on and on

yep your right an ex reality TV star as well as billionaire business man is president of the United States.

and to think things were going so well when the career politicians were running the show.

Should I go to an anti Trump website, search for anti Trump bullet points and copy and paste them in response? Nah couldn't be bothered.

RIGOLO

jochenstacker wrote: »

I'd say best Dem strategy would be to appeal to sensible middle ground voters and non voters.
Knuckle dragging redneck Trumpers are a lost cause anyway and should just be ignored.

calling peopel knuckle draggin rednecks is a policy the Democrats already tried more or less.

Hilary tried that tactic already , called them deplorables, look where that got here.

keep it up, its interesting to hear the viscereal hatred from the left and anti-Trumpers.

RIGOLO

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Should I go to an anti Trump website, search for anti Trump bullet points and copy and paste them in response? Nah couldn't be bothered.

Thats okay you shouldnt bother, you wont find any site that says anything I had in that post didnt happen when we had career politicians involved.

Which was the point being made.

The left and anti-Trumpers seem only capable of emoting.

Leroy42

But Trump will not be running against HC in 2020. The hatred many had for her will no longer be a factor. The line of "they are both terrible but at least he is less bad" is no longer a runner. So what has Trump to offer now?

Racism, massive increase in national debt, no idea on healthcare, no infrastructure plan, allowed Russia to continue to interfere in elections, multiple convictions of those 'best people' he selected, no draining of the swamp.

Stop moaning ffs

RIGOLO wrote: »

calling peopel knuckle draggin rednecks is a policy the Democrats already tried more or less.

Hilary tried that tactic already , called them deplorables, look where that got here.

keep it up, its interesting to hear the viscereal hatred from the left and anti-Trumpers.

Trump is a rapist
Trump is a racist



I don’t think your fictional economy stats will matter to Americans compared to the two above facts come polling day.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

Thats okay you shouldnt bother, you wont find any site that says anything I had in that post didnt happen when we had career politicians involved.

Which was the point being made.

The left and anti-Trumpers seem only capable of emoting.

So your point is what? That career politicians are no better or worse than a person with no experience or knowledge?

Based on that, Trump surely should be kicked out in 2020. Bloody politicians!

Stallingrad

RIGOLO wrote: »

calling peopel knuckle draggin rednecks is a policy the Democrats already tried more or less.

I agree. It's a facile and unhelpful interpretation of massively complex issues. That has long been acknowledged.

There are countless better arguments to be made against this Presidency, a lot of which have been skillfully articulated here.

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

And in case that wasn't clear, remember he defended Mike Pence's [*] visit to the camps by talking about "Great Ratings!". He's always boasting about attendances, numbers, viewers; as you say he's a reality TV star and I guess if Reagan used his Hollywood experience to play the act of the dignified politician, Trump is the manifestation of the superficial age of Reality TV, who craves attention.


[*] sidebar: why didn't Trump visit the centres anyway? Given the tattle over Trump's apparent germaphobia, perhaps that's a hint, but surely the obvious win would have been for the President to visit, show some compassion, placate those outraged at these totally-not-concentration camps....

This might be the reason he stopped doing those kinds of events...

Danzy

everlast75 wrote: »

He has succeeded in unifying the Dems against him. Did you miss the censure from the House yesterday?

The Dems debates will start in earnest soon and the attention will be on the candidates. Epstein, Mueller, Stone - all of these things will move matters along very quickly. Don't get me wrong - Fox will fixate as usual on these ladies, but their audience are lost to the voice of reason anyway.

A reminder - they are four votes. Only the Trump faithful could equate that to being the "face of the Democrats".

This isn't about the Trump faithful, as you say they are faithful.

This is about the 20% in the middle.

They don't have to like him just look at the Squad and think anyone but them having access to power.

Staying at home would be a result.

They are only 4 people, only 4 votes as Nancy Pelosi dismissed them as but do not underestimate the damage they can do to the Democrats.

Leroy42

They will only damage the democrats with those people that are fully in line with Trump anyway. So little to no actual effect.

I am curious why you see those people are being so negative to the middle ground but people like Trump not having the same effect. Or Pence, a man that believes that gay can be cured?

rossie1977

Danzy wrote: »

This isn't about the Trump faithful, as you say they are faithful.

This is about the 20% in the middle.

They don't have to like him just look at the Squad and think anyone but them having access to power.

Staying at home would be a result.

They are only 4 people, only 4 votes as Nancy Pelosi dismissed them as but do not underestimate the damage they can do to the Democrats.

Pelosi is a corporate Democrat who wants the status quo to remain the same which keeps her and her buddies in power. She and other top Democrats along with every Republican politican and most right wing pundits are propped up by corporate and special interest group money.

I don't know anything about the other three ladies but AOC's platform of affordable healthcare, jobs guarantee, increase in minimum wage, removing assault/military style weapons from American streets, criminal justice reform, dealing with climate change, cleaning up corruption in Washington, affordable higher education, women's rights, supporting seniors, putting measures in place to make sure things like 2008 financial crash doesn't happen again are issues Americans as a whole not just left wing Democrats are interested in.

pixelburp

everlast75 wrote: »

This might be the reason he stopped doing those kinds of events...

Well if we are to believe all actions by Trump are deep, meaningful and strategic, I'd love to know what the thinking is behind throwing paper towels like basketballs at a crowd ruined by natural disaster.

Which 'cheerfully' reminds me: if there is strategy, what was the tactics behind his infamous declaration that the death-toll of Hurricane Maria was a Democrat conspiracy? Or that Porto Rico was already ruined before the hurricane hit? Or the half dozen other things he said that just stuck the knife into an impoverished part of the United States, ruined by a horrendous disaster?

God, remember that? I do, such a tragedy and the usual parade of lickspittles came out and either denied Trump ever claimed these things - which, he did - or the usual mental gymnastics that ACTUALLY what he meant to say was something much deeper. And that of course it was the Democrats' fault anyway.

Cult of Personality. And I'm just going to say; I contend we have an example on this very thread.

RIGOLO

rossie1977 wrote: »

Pelosi is a corporate Democrat who wants the status quo to remain the same which keeps her and her buddies in power. She and other top Democrats along with every Republican politican and most right wing pundits are propped up by corporate and special interest group money.

I don't know anything about the other three ladies but AOC's platform of affordable healthcare, jobs guarantee, increase in minimum wage, removing assault/military style weapons from American streets, criminal justice reform, dealing with climate change, cleaning up corruption in Washington, affordable higher education, women's rights, supporting seniors, putting measures in place to make sure things like 2008 financial crash doesn't happen again are issues Americans as a whole not just left wing Democrats are interested in.

AOC isnt eligible to run for President for a few more years.

AOC has an approval rating in the 20s ... the 20s and the anti-Trumeprs think Trumps high 40s is bad.

An anonymous Democratic group leaked a poll that shows swing voters deeply dislike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the left wing, widening the party's rift

https://news.yahoo.com/anonymous-democratic-group-leaked-poll-205906247.html

and you think Americans are interested in AOCs ideas...

If the Democrat and anti-Trumpers hopes are pinned on AOC and The Squad they are truly screwed.

Leroy42

rossie1977 wrote: »

I don't know anything about the other three ladies but AOC's platform of affordable healthcare, jobs guarantee, increase in minimum wage, removing assault/military style weapons from American streets, criminal justice reform, dealing with climate change, cleaning up corruption in Washington, affordable higher education, women's rights, supporting seniors, putting measures in place to make sure things like 2008 financial crash doesn't happen again are issues Americans as a whole not just left wing Democrats are interested in.

But strangely enough, it has a lot in common with the platform that Trump himself ran on. Draining the swamp, repeal and replace (Trump claimed everyone would have healthcare), dealing with the justice system (Trump has loaded the judges), getting people work and good paying jobs, VA better deal, better deal for minorties.

Of course there are some areas they disagree on but overall both are/were unhappy with America and want it to change. But apparently now it is no longer acceptable to say that USA isn't the greatest thing ever and has any issues.

Trump won, in large part because people wanted change. It was the major issue that HC had against her, that she was more of the same. Why do Trump supporters seem to believe that the desire for change stops at Trump?

Danzy

rossie1977 wrote: »

Pelosi is a corporate Democrat who wants the status quo to remain the same which keeps her and her buddies in power. She and other top Democrats along with every Republican politican and most right wing pundits are propped up by corporate and special interest group money.

I don't know anything about the other three ladies but AOC's platform of affordable healthcare, jobs guarantee, increase in minimum wage, removing assault/military style weapons from American streets, criminal justice reform, dealing with climate change, cleaning up corruption in Washington, affordable higher education, women's rights, supporting seniors, putting measures in place to make sure things like 2008 financial crash doesn't happen again are issues Americans as a whole not just left wing Democrats are interested in.

Correct, I'd agree with them on lots of it as well.

Cortez did squander a lot of good will with her Green New Deal unfortunately.

Pelosi is a corporate Democrat but her interest still remains in having a Democratic President and house , out of her own self interest even.

These 4 loopers aren't going to deliver it though.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

AOC isnt eligible to run for President for a few more years.

Exactly, so why are you so interested in her?

RIGOLO wrote: »

AOC has an approval rating in the 20s ... the 20s and the anti-Trumeprs think Trumps high 40s is bad.

I already debunked this. She is not running for POTUS, the metrics are completely different

RIGOLO wrote: »

If the Democrat and anti-Trumpers hopes are pinned on AOC and The Squad they are truly screwed.

Yeah but they aren't. They are simply a contingent within the party.

rossie1977

If we are going on approval ratings then Bernie should walk 2020... https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/10/10/senator-approval-ratings-morning-consult/1590329002/

Most voters likely didn't know AOC outside negative soundbites on places like Fox News or right wing radio/YouTube.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But strangely enough, it has a lot in common with the platform that Trump himself ran on. Draining the swamp, repeal and replace (Trump claimed everyone would have healthcare), dealing with the justice system (Trump has loaded the judges), getting people work and good paying jobs, VA better deal, better deal for minorties.

It's a similar platform yes but we know AOC would actually try to implement it.

Trump claimed to be man of the people who would help working class, fix healthcare while draining swamp. Obviously that was bs but many bought into it. Strange then that someone who is actually working class and wants to help people below a certain threshold improve their lives, fix healthcare and clean up Washington is so hated by those same people who play cheerleader for Trump on daily basis.

Danzy

Leroy42 wrote: »

. The line of "they are both terrible but at least he is less bad" is no longer a runner. So what has Trump to offer now?
.

He is making it a runner by making the 4 crazies the face of the Democrats.

Bob Dole used Pat Buchanan as a threat, mad Pat as the candidate that would burn the Party.

The Democrats pushed him as the face of the Republicans, in order to damage them.

The squad are PBP types, never mind their beliefs, divisive, fight their own side as bitterly as anyone, want things but refuse to plan or say how, attack, negative etc.

Life long Trump hating Democrats will walk away from a party where they are considered a powerful force.

A bad day for him is one in which they are not on tv.

Christy42

Danzy wrote: »

Correct, I'd agree with them on lots of it as well.

Cortez did squander a lot of good will with her Green New Deal unfortunately.

Pelosi is a corporate Democrat but her interest still remains in having a Democratic President and house , out of her own self interest even.

These 4 loopers aren't going to deliver it though.

I still want to know what you think of Republicans standing by and being represented by an out and out racist.

They are also not the pbp or particularly crazy but you want to keep the conversation on them not the racist president right?

Leroy42

But they won't be on the ticket. They won't be in the debates. I understand the thinking behind it but it has a very real and obvious flaw.

Many people in the US are simply not interested in politics, this grander scheme simply won't work. It worked against HC because she was front and centre. But she is not there in 2020. So Trump has lost one of, if not the, most important weapons he had. And I fail to see that he has replaced it with.

I can see that he is trying to replace HC hatred with hatred of AOC and others, but whilst some will no doubt buy into it, I would be of the view that they would be GOP supporters anyway and it wouldn't matter who the DNC ran.

It is also true that to get them front and centre Trump has had to expose himself as a racist and with that the GOP as a whole. So they have the very real risk of alienating the centre ground they very much need to win.

Danzy

Danzy wrote: »

He is making it a runner by making the 4 crazies the face of the Democrats.

Bob Dole used Pat Buchanan as a threat, mad Pat as the candidate that would burn the Party.

The Democrats pushed him as the face of the Republicans, in order to damage them.

The squad are PBP types, never mind their beliefs, divisive, fight their own side as bitterly as anyone, want things but refuse to plan or say how, attack, negative etc.

Life long Trump hating Democrats will walk away from a party where they are considered a powerful force.

A bad day for him is one in which they are not on tv.

The Democrats had leftwing media put Trump on all the time at the start of the primaries to help him win so he'd be easy to beat in the election. You don't need to go that far back in history to find examples of one side making the other all about some crazies.