Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

hill16bhoy

Trump quite obviously wants to see Omar get killed.

Which is to say, murdered. Deliberately killing somebody being murder, obviously.

In Russia, which he has modelled his version of America on, the regime simply murders people who are inconvenient to them.

In America, there are millions of right wing crazies with guns, so you can just whip them up into such a frenzy that one of them eventually cuts loose and does what you want them do.

Then you can deny anything to do with it.

You can even pretend to act "presidential" immediately afterwards, and CNN and the New York Times will praise you for it.

I can just imagine it now: "Trump the healer", says Jake Tapper.

hill16bhoy

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Trump quite obviously wants to see Omar get killed.

This is the best thing I've ever read on this thread.

kilns

This period in American history will be looked back with the same shame as the 1950s with McCarthyism and even worse periods of history. There is a civil war coming if this continues to happen, on one side you have a large group of racists and racist enablers and on the other more stable minded people but also extremists.

If Trump wins again and the GOP hold the senate, I would not be surprised what happens even Trump taking long term control of the white house in defiance of the masses

American badly needs a reboot

hill16bhoy

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the best thing I've ever read on this thread.

I'll presume you're being sarcastic there based on your previous posts.

Can I ask you: do you think Trump models himself on Vladimir Putin?

And do you think Putin wanted to see Boris Nemtsov get murdered?

From my own point of view both questions are rhetorical, but it'd be interesting to get your views.

I'm not going to answer ridiculous and stupid questions. I don't believe that Trump wants his supporters to kill Omar. You apparently do, and the other poster apparently thinks that Trump won't leave office and will become a dictator.

Talk to each other and make those beliefs stronger, because nothing anyone says will ever weaken them.

shesty

I try to avoid anything Donald Trump related because it fills me with despair and anger.But I noticed this thread on the main page after having just seen two stories about his rally last night.

A part of me cannot believe what I am seeing.When I became aware of Alexandra Ocasio Cortez and the possibility that she might stand up to Trump, I didn't really think she would win but I was seriously concerned about the bruising she would take during an electoral race because let's face it, the man is a stupid, underhanded bully and will do literally anything to achieve what he sees as "winning".I honestly did not think he would sink to the depths that he has though.Anything he may have achieved while in power (and I really don't know how much that is), is wiped out by his day to day behaviour.

At this point my only hope is that age will catch up with him sooner rather than later.

Midlife

That question by fox news...

'has immmigration fraud been commmitted by Omar by marrying her brother'

Obviously, Trump said he didn't know but that doesn't matter, the question was put and that is all that was required of fox.


It's very very hard to see a way back for the country with stuff like that happeneing. That's a president and a national broadcaster talking on the lawn of the whitehouse.

That's where they are now. Politics means outright racism and lies about democratically elected people, all planned to stoke up fear and distrust based on the colour of skin and religion.

This won't be just turned off if Trump gets defeated. This is now the republician party. It's so dark.

Beechwoodspark

Trump is testing the waters for a full scale fascist dictatorship. If he wins a second term he will put the afterburners on, there’ll be no pretense any longer of respecting the US constitution. It’ll be full steam ahead to “American carnage”.

Shame on the enablers -supposed patriots from the Republican Party.

hill16bhoy

kilns wrote: »

This period in American history will be looked back with the same shame as the 1950s with McCarthyism and even worse periods of history. There is a civil war coming if this continues to happen, on one side you have a large group of racists and racist enablers and on the other more stable minded people but also extremists.

If Trump wins again and the GOP hold the senate, I would not be surprised what happens even Trump taking long term control of the white house in defiance of the masses

American badly needs a reboot

Kleptocracy is at the heart of it all.

You can't operate a kleptocratic regime without destroying the concept of truth.

Destroying the concept of truth is the vehicle for fascism.

Fascism is the vehicle for kleptocracy.

Those who deal in actual raw truth are then branded as "extremists" and "crazy".

A few years ago, you occasionally heard it asked if the modern media environment in fact made it easier to fool people with fascist demagoguery than was the case in the 1930s.

I think the evidence is stacking up that it does. CNN now has its own dapper Nazi "analyst" in Richard Spencer, giving the cheerful and "equally legitimate" neo-Nazi view of things.

Of course what we see now is not the the exact same type of fascism we saw in the 1930s, but it could end up being more widespread across different countries, longer lasting, and harder to get rid of than the original version.

Think of a Europe full of Orbans in power and acting in the service of the bigger powers with kleptocratic fascists like Putin and Trump in power and you get the picture. Boris Johnson will be a guinea pig for this.

kilns

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not going to answer ridiculous and stupid questions. I don't believe that Trump wants his supporters to kill Omar. You apparently do, and the other poster apparently thinks that Trump won't leave office and will become a dictator.

Talk to each other and make those beliefs stronger, because nothing anyone says will ever weaken them.

He has already tested the waters on staying in office longer than allowed by "joking" about it, would you put it past him to try?

batgoat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not going to answer ridiculous and stupid questions. I don't believe that Trump wants his supporters to kill Omar. You apparently do, and the other poster apparently thinks that Trump won't leave office and will become a dictator.

Talk to each other and make those beliefs stronger, because nothing anyone says will ever weaken them.

I think Trump will leave office but will engage in incredibly dangerous rhetoric if he loses next year. While I don't believe he wants Omar to be assassinated, his current rhetoric and propaganda that he's pushing about her makes her a target of extremists. I doubt he cares about this effect. "Send her back" sounds like the completely nonsensical slogan that could be chanted at his rallies for the foreseeable. And that's a direct result of what he says.

And you can complain about people being illogical but I'm guessing you will be unwilling to say that he's blatantly racist these days. How do you maintain that belief?

everlast75

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not going to answer ridiculous and stupid questions. I don't believe that Trump wants his supporters to kill Omar. You apparently do, and the other poster apparently thinks that Trump won't leave office and will become a dictator.

Talk to each other and make those beliefs stronger, because nothing anyone says will ever weaken them.

When is it enough for you?

when are you going to say;

"do you know what? **** this guy? I've had it taking pot shots at those that are outraged by his vitriolic, dangerous tropes. They are spot on. This guy is out and out dangerous and people should just come out and flatly say so"

He didn't mean for news outlets to be pipe bombed either, no? When he called out the press as being the enemy of the people? (I mean, are we passed parsing his words by claiming he meant "just" the fake media? We okay with that now?)

You are stretching the term "plausible deniability" passed the point of no return.

batgoat

batgoat wrote: »

I think Trump will leave office but will engage in incredibly dangerous rhetoric if he loses next year. While I don't believe he wants Omar to be assassinated, his current rhetoric and propaganda that he's pushing about her makes her a target of extremists. I doubt he cares about this effect. "Send her back" sounds like the completely nonsensical slogan that could be chanted at his rallies for the foreseeable. And that's a direct result of what he says.

And you can complain about people being illogical but I'm guessing you will be unwilling to say that he's blatantly racist these days. How do you maintain that belief?

He is a massive racist recently. I'm glad we agree he doesn't want her assassinated and he won't become a dictator. We can leave those notions to others.

Beechwoodspark

Trump is a despicable individual - he would exploit political assassinations for all he could get from them.

Don’t forget - he reveled in making journalists and the press the enemy of the people - fascist strategy 101.

It resulted on at least one newsroom being shot up by one of his followers. Trump then tried to exploit the situation. despicable and wildly reckless.

pixelburp

So I wake up in the morning and the main news is that the sitting President of the United States insinuated that a naturalised citizen & congressional member (who happens to be a black muslim) had sexual relations with her brother - but is too much of a coward to own the slur - while at his rallies his supporters chant "send her back?". Again, a naturalised citizen and one serving in public office.

And this thread is expected to maintain civility and a sober perspective on this administration? Give. Me. A. Break. What I want to call the man would ironically get me a card, but Trump's behaviour, and that of his baying crowd, is deplorable. There's no other word for it. Well, there are about 100, but again, "civility"

Stop moaning ffs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He is a massive racist recently. I'm glad we agree he doesn't want her assassinated and he won't become a dictator. We can leave those notions to others.

She’s already had credible death threats against her with at least one loon arrested.

This was before he’d ever heard of her. A few months back.

Now he’s targeted her. If something does happen he’s directly responsible for it and there’s no possible way to deny that.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

So I wake up in the morning and the main news is that the sitting President of the United States insinuated that a naturalised citizen & congressional member (who happens to be a black muslim) had sexual relations with her brother - but is too much of a coward to own the slur - while at his rallies his supporters chant "send her back?". Again, a naturalised citizen and one serving in public office.

And this thread is expected to maintain civility and a sober perspective on this administration? Give. Me. A. Break. What I want to call the man would ironically get me a card, but Trump's behaviour, and that of his baying crowd, is deplorable. There's no other word for it.

If the story is true, it wasn't sexual. It was to get him in the country. If true.

everlast75

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He is a massive racist recently

And that's the funniest thing I've seen on here.

Lately.

Wow.

As if all the criticism of his racism up to now was unwarranted. As if this "racism of late" came as a surprise, as if we who called him racist were somehow premature, hyperbolic even.

Lucky guesses by us. Must be, right!?

hill16bhoy

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not going to answer ridiculous and stupid questions. I don't believe that Trump wants his supporters to kill Omar. You apparently do, and the other poster apparently thinks that Trump won't leave office and will become a dictator.

Talk to each other and make those beliefs stronger, because nothing anyone says will ever weaken them.

I think the fact that you refuse to face up to such questions is a good indicator that you really don't understand the nature of what America is facing here at all.

Or perhaps, like a lot of people, you do understand it, but it's too painful to acknowledge and easier to whistle away to yourself and try to convince yourself that it will somehow all be alright.

I don't know why anybody is surprised at any of what's happening now.

The evidence has been there from day one and history tells us how things develop from there.

Three years ago, people used to joke about how crazy a potential Trump presidency would be.

Now, many people not just in America but abroad have not just become immune to that craziness, they're actively defending it.

The psychology of crowds, the cult of personality.

Christy42

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

She’s already had credible death threats against her with at least one loon arrested.

This was before he’d ever heard of her. A few months back.

Now he’s targeted her. If something does happen he’s directly responsible for it and there’s no possible way to deny that.

I doubt his direct aim is for assassination. However I doubt he will shed too many years if it happens. He is willing to encourage racism and he knows where it can lead. I doubt it is his primary aim but he is more than willing to take the risk that his word causes violence.

Beechwoodspark

His “go to” strategy is divide divide divide.

Find a hate figure and whip up a frenzy

Veiled and not so veiled racism is fine for him

He personally is racist. No doubt.

kilns

Can the ordinary decent middle of the road card carrying Republican voters actually stand this man? or is it party over anything else?

I guess we will soon see

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

If the story is true, it wasn't sexual. It was to get him in the country. If true.

Ok, fair enough, but you just said the magic caveat; if true. Trump has used a specific prefix any time he comes out with some outrageous lie, "some people are saying..." then blather some nonsense about poll numbers, his amazing-brilliance, a political rival etc.

As to the assassination talk, I agree. He's not wanting Omar to be killed but he's enabling a hostile environment to cultivate - again - in a country with a storied history of political assassinations and attacks. We had the hoax pipe bomb attacks last yet but it's a small mercy there has been no credible threat. Maybe the FBI and Secret SErvice are working overtime to snuff out the threats.

Now that the target is a black muslim immigrant, all bets are off IMO.

Midlife

This is what a lot of people just don't get regardiung Trump's behaviour.

They see it as politicking.

Trump will walk away at some point. The divisions he's stoking will remain long after that.

Is it really so hard for people to understand that that's a bad thing for the country long term?

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

pixelburp wrote: »

So I wake up in the morning and the main news is that the sitting President of the United States insinuated that a naturalised citizen & congressional member (who happens to be a black muslim) had sexual relations with her brother - but is too much of a coward to own the slur - while at his rallies his supporters chant "send her back?". Again, a naturalised citizen and one serving in public office.

And this thread is expected to maintain civility and a sober perspective on this administration? Give. Me. A. Break. What I want to call the man would ironically get me a card, but Trump's behaviour, and that of his baying crowd, is deplorable. There's no other word for it.

If the story is true, it wasn't sexual. It was to get him in the country. If true.

But Trmp is a known liar. Why would you even consider it true without evidence?

pixelburp

Midlife wrote: »

This is what a lot of people just don't get regardiung Trump's behaviour.

They see it as politicking.

Trump will walk away at some point. The divisions he's stoking will remain long after that.

Is it really so hard for people to understand that that's a bad thing for the country long term?

Kris Kobach revealed himself and the great partisan mentality on air: that even if Trump openly admitted to being a racist, Kobach would support him. These are people who would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven and we've seen that thinking throughout history (including our own during The Troubles) Trump's snark that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue ultimately became a declaration of truth.

https://twitter.com/CuomoPrimeTime/status/1151302986934571008

batgoat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the story is true, it wasn't sexual. It was to get him in the country. If true.

It's a piece of propaganda that Breitbart and ilk are spreading. It's not true...

Christy42

"This is what I heard but I don't know anything about it."

How to start a rumour in school 101. I really didn't think it worked with people older than that.


It isn't true. He has supplied no evidence, he is pot stirring. Nothing more. He is to be assumed lying unless evidence says otherwise on things like this unless we are bringing back birther nonsense again. He is a racist. End of.

pixelburp

batgoat wrote: »

It's a piece of propaganda that Breitbart and ilk are spreading. It's not true...

But of course, as the aphorism goes, a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

I've listened to a little of Omar's speeches and she talks a good, egalitarian game. Her words sound more overtly American, and invoke the purity of the "American Dream" than anything Trump has uttered in his political career. I get some have raised question marks over her views on Israel (incorrectly conflating that with anti-semitism, that old canard), but honestly she comes off more in keeping with the Spirit of America than many who would chant "Send her back".

Yet as we've seen, fail to wear a little pin of the US flag and you're "Anti American" in the eyes of some.

TheIrishGrover

Listen to him carefully..... He never says these things. he never said to deport that congresswoman.... He never said her name. He never told ANY of them to "go back home"... He never said their names.

He never said she has sex with her brother. He NEVER says these things. He never actually names anyone. When he DOES name someone he never says directly that they did or did not do these things. He says "I don't know, I hear...." or "They tell me..." or "You hear stories..." or "My people tell me" etc.

The man may be a detestable thin-skinned, emotionally stunted repellent waste of human flesh but, contrary to opinion he's not a stupid detestable thin-skinned, emotionally stunted repellent waste of human flesh. He always leaves room to say "I never said that!". It's a coward and a bully's trick.

The thing is: What's going on behind? What bill is being pushed through while he is saying these things? That's his detestable MO: Say/do something repellent so while the focus is on that, he can push his other things through.

I actually don't think he's a racist. I think he thinks EVERYONE is beneath him: Black, Brown, Asian, White, Straight, LBGT, Christian, Muslim or Jew. Genuinely. He doesn't HATE people. He just doesn't think they/we are people. The very definition of a sociopath.

But, as many have said, he is not the cause of America's decline into a narrow-minded, fearful, isolationist, regressive country - a shadow of it's former self. No longer the superpower it once was and now fearful and resentful of everyone external and internal. No. He is not the cause but is a symptom.

And it a shame. It is not the same country I spent a LOT of time in in the 2000's..... Such a pity.