Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Christy42

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

A US journalist has asked Trump would he be ok with someone telling the First Lady to go back to her country.
Trump didn’t answer.

We need more of this. Tackling him head on about his racism. Turn it back on him.

I wonder if he would be ok with someone telling Trump to go back to his own country. AOC at a minimum had stronger US relations than Trump himself.

hill16bhoy

everlast75 wrote: »

2 particular people give me hope.

Firstly, the MAGA cap wearing lady who sat on the jury for Paul Manafort. She was interviewed after he was sent down. She wanted to believe he was innocent, up to the trial she did believe he was innocent, yet when faced with the overwhelming evidence, she sent him down.

The second lady is the one at the Amash rally. He spoke about the Mueller report to the folks and afterwards, this lady said that she had no idea there was anything negative in the report, she thought it exonerated Trump (sound familiar?). She then said she only listened to conservative media, like Fox News.

Like I said - educate the people. Let Mueller speak, have hearings disclosing facts and evidence, fight gerrymandering and voter suppression, encourage voter turnout. That's the way to beat Trump.

The above here is another reason why impeachment procedings need to happen.

Get the criminality and corruption out in the open.

Nixon's support steadily dropped as the evidence was revealed.

But I fear Pelosi and the corporate Democrats are way, way too hung up on the quaint and bizarre notion of "not dividing the American people", aka appeasement, for any of this to happen.

Stop moaning ffs

Impeachment now would hand trump victory In 2020.
It would be totllay self defeating for the Dems I reckon.

everlast75

hill16bhoy wrote: »

The above here is another reason why impeachment procedings need to happen.

Get the criminality and corruption out in the open.

Nixon's support steadily dropped as the evidence was revealed.

But I fear Pelosi and the corporate Democrats are way, way too hung up on the quaint and bizarre notion of "not dividing the American people", aka appeasement, for any of this to happen.

I happen to agree. They need to begin even "an impeachment enquiry".

The problem with the idea that Trump will run on being cleared by the Senate is, that if you don't launch an impeachment enquiry, he will run on the fact that they didn't launch one, i.e. he didn't do anything wrong.

everlast75

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Impeachment now would hand trump victory In 2020.
It would be totllay self defeating for the Dems I reckon.

Impeachment enquiry = investigation.

You don't need to refer it to the Senate, for the Reps to vote it down.

Plus, if you censure him after the hearings and nothing more, you will have educated the public and not handed him the win from the Senate.

isohon

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Impeachment now would hand trump victory In 2020.
It would be totllay self defeating for the Dems I reckon.

Why?

Bill Clinton was subject to an impeachment procedure, that ultimately failed, on much more spurious grounds than one can see applicable to the situation Trump is in. Two years later the Republican's took the Presidency.

I'm just not seeing how this would be so poisonous to the Democrats? Trump's base already loathes them beyond reason.

Stop moaning ffs

isohon wrote: »

Why?

Bill Clinton was subject to an impeachment procedure, that ultimately failed, on much more spurious grounds than one can see applicable to the situation Trump is in. Two years later the Republican's took the Presidency.

I'm just not seeing how this would be so poisonous to the Democrats? Trump's base already loathes them beyond reason.

He’s use it to his advantage in every way possible. Think the rallies are bad now they’d be worse if he was painting it like he was a victim and the dirty Dems are coming for him to wreck all the greatness he’s making blah blah blah.

I could see him weaponising it and moderate / undecideds falling for whatever he came out with on it

hill16bhoy

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Impeachment now would hand trump victory In 2020.
It would be totllay self defeating for the Dems I reckon.

Not at all.

This presidency is an absolute cesspit of criminality and corruption.

Democrats need to expose it for what it is in the public arena via public hearings which are way more difficult for Republicans to spin.

It'd also drive Trump up the wall.

Water John

It may just all be a question of timing. There are 5/6 investigations going on. Let them play out. Have Mueller and others before the HOR. Then say in 6 months time go with full inquiry. This as Everlast says can be then followed by censure. No point unless GOP are wilting, highly doubtful, to send it to the Senate.

hill16bhoy

I think Jeremy Corbyn's strategy as regards Brexit is a warning for the "no impeachment" people and the so called "moderates" in the Democratic party.

Corbyn may not have won the 2017 election, but Labour did way better than most expected. In bare vote terms they were near 13 million, easily their best since 1997, which nobody thought they could achieve. A massive reason for this was a hugely energised base made up of progressive young people opposed to Brexit.

But Labour's policy as regards Brexit since that election has been a total fudge. Corbyn has vacillated between trying to keep the pro-Remain base of the Labour party happy, while also trying to keep the minority of Labour voters who also voted Leave happy.

He has been fearful and timid in his Brexit policy, constantly playing both sides in interviews, trying be both a Remain and Leave party simultaneously.

It hasn't worked at all, and now nobody really knows what Labour stands for as regards Brexit.

All the while, the young, energised base that did so much to get that vote out in 2017 has dissipated - disillusion has crept in, and they're leaking support to the Lib Dems and the Greens while the minority of Leave voters who voted for Labour don't seem impressed either, and may vote for the Brexit party next time.

Labour refused to be bold, it spoke out both sides of its mouth - just like Pelosi - and has suffered the consequences.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

before trump wins election

Dow: 17,888.28,
S&P 500: 2,085.18,
Nasdaq: 5,046.37,

today
dow 27,222
nasdaq 8207
S&P 500 2995

You do the math.

Gbear

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Not at all.

This presidency is an absolute cesspit of criminality and corruption.

Democrats need to expose it for what it is in the public arena via public hearings which are way more difficult for Republicans to spin.

It'd also drive Trump up the wall.

I think we're in last chance saloon with Mueller's testimony next week.

If the public reaction to that doesn't stir the house from their cowardly indolence I don't know what will.

I do think this recent vote was premature, but only because it should've waited on the largely ignorant American public to be made aware of the details of the Mueller report.

The absolute dummies in the media parroting Barr's propaganda meant that even on release I'd imagine huge swathes of the country have no clue about the extent of the collaboration with Russia and the blatantly criminal obstruction of justice.

And another important element of this is that Mueller's testimony and any future impeachment hearings would allow Democrats to successfully make the case that Trump and the Republican Senate are intentionally leaving the back door open and refusing all efforts to secure the elections, so that whether or not they can make a case for criminal conspiracy, they can clearly show that there is a massive betrayal of democracy taking place.

That won't convince the Trump base, because they largely aren't interested in democracy, but most of the country is, and again, that kind of looming threat will help both with making the correct decision and turnout.

Stop moaning ffs

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I think Jeremy Corbyn's strategy as regards Brexit is a warning for the "no impeachment" people and the so called "moderates" in the Democratic party.

Corbyn may not have won the 2017 election, but Labour did way better than most expected. In bare vote terms they were near 13 million, easily their best since 1997, which nobody thought they could achieve. A massive reason for this was a hugely energised base made up of progressive young people opposed to Brexit.

But Labour's policy as regards Brexit since that election has been a total fudge. Corbyn has vacillated between trying to keep the pro-Remain base of the Labour party happy, while also trying to keep the minority of Labour voters who also voted Leave happy.

He has been fearful and timid in his Brexit policy, constantly playing both sides in interviews, trying be both a Remain and Leave party simultaneously.

It hasn't worked at all, and now nobody really knows what Labour stands for as regards Brexit.

All the while, the young, energised base that did so much to get that vote out in 2017 has dissipated - disillusion has crept in, and they're leaking support to the Lib Dems and the Greens while the minority of Leave voters who voted for Labour don't seem impressed either, and may vote for the Brexit party next time.

Labour refused to be bold, it spoke out both sides of its mouth - just like Pelosi - and has suffered the consequences.

Offside but I think the whole campaign against Corbyn is a construct created by Tories and the press in order to distract from just how terrible and Fd up they are and the whole brexit disaster is.
And it’s working. It still won’t stop the Tories getting torn apart at the next GE.

MadYaker

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

before trump wins election

Dow: 17,888.28,
S&P 500: 2,085.18,
Nasdaq: 5,046.37,

today
dow 27,222
nasdaq 8207
S&P 500 2995

You do the math.

What do those numbers mean?

duploelabs

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

before trump wins election

Dow: 17,888.28,
S&P 500: 2,085.18,
Nasdaq: 5,046.37,

today
dow 27,222
nasdaq 8207
S&P 500 2995

You do the math.

As written before by multiple posters, do you realise that a rise in the stock market doesn't equate to a better economy?

Christy42

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

before trump wins election

Dow: 17,888.28,
S&P 500: 2,085.18,
Nasdaq: 5,046.37,

today
dow 27,222
nasdaq 8207
S&P 500 2995

You do the math.

I don't get it. The argument would be far stronger if you took his inauguration day. As it is it is too obvious that you are trying to play clever with the numbers by starting several months before he was able to make a policy decision.

I mean there are the usual caveats with only looking at the Dow to decide how the economy looks but there was still strong growth in the Dow (though this largely halted around when he passed his tax bill). So the argument is still there but for whatever reason you are trying to force in a few months growth from when he was not president into his achievements. It is pointless.

Gbear

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Offside but I think the whole campaign against Corbyn is a construct created by Tories and the press in order to distract from just how terrible and Fd up they are and the whole brexit disaster is.
And it’s working. It still won’t stop the Tories getting torn apart at the next GE.

That's true in some respects but not, I think, with respect to Brexit.

That's been a **** up all of his own making.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

as trump destroying the US environment nothing could be further then the truth

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dipkabhambhani/2019/07/18/u-s-energy-is-hotspot-in-trumps-economy/#2aab337b1897

This part is especially interesting
The Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) said the US economy added 224,000 jobs in June 2019. How many of those are directly and indirectly related to energy is opaque, though most stakeholders say it’s significant.

Trump if you take away his odd slip of the tongue is a brilliant president.

Stop moaning ffs

Gbear wrote: »

That's true in some respects but not, I think, with respect to Brexit.

That's been a **** up all of his own making.

Yeah but these accusations if anti Semitism in the party. Nobody’s been named. He’s been accused of not tackling it upto being an anti Semite personally.
All without anyone being accused directly apart from himself.
It’s all very fishy.

MadYaker

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

as trump destroying the US environment nothing could be further then the truth

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dipkabhambhani/2019/07/18/u-s-energy-is-hotspot-in-trumps-economy/#2aab337b1897

This part is especially interesting
The Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) said the US economy added 224,000 jobs in June 2019. How many of those are directly and indirectly related to energy is opaque, though most stakeholders say it’s significant.

Trump if you take away his odd slip of the tongue is a brilliant president.

So your argument is trump is great because he’s spending money on getting oil out of the ground?

duploelabs

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

as trump destroying the US environment nothing could be further then the truth

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dipkabhambhani/2019/07/18/u-s-energy-is-hotspot-in-trumps-economy/#2aab337b1897

This part is especially interesting
The Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) said the US economy added 224,000 jobs in June 2019. How many of those are directly and indirectly related to energy is opaque, though most stakeholders say it’s significant.

Trump if you take away his odd slip of the tongue is a brilliant president.

Can you answer the questions regarding the numbers you posted?

everlast75

Current Secretary of the interior, David Bernhardt. Check out his history for lobbying big oil companies.

Check out Ryan Zinke - previous Secretary of the interior.

He didn't drain the swamp - he hired it!

hill16bhoy

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Offside but I think the whole campaign against Corbyn is a construct created by Tories and the press in order to distract from just how terrible and Fd up they are and the whole brexit disaster is.
And it’s working. It still won’t stop the Tories getting torn apart at the next GE.

We all know where the vilification of Ilhan Omar and the portrayal of Labour as an institutionally anti-Semitic party both come from.

It's blatant weaponisation of anti-Semitism as a smear to try and destroy those sympathetic to the cause of Palestine.

Atlantic magazine writer Ben Judah nailed it last week on C4 News when he said there is no "special relationship" between the US and Britain, but that the real special relationship is between the US and Israel.

All the while, the real and deeply toxic anti-Semitism that permeates the Republican party and its support is totally ignored.

That said, I have become very disillusioned with Corbyn's vacillation on Brexit.

As of this moment I wouldn't agree that the Tories will be torn apart at a general election but I guess that's a discussion for elsewhere.

Walter Bishop

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

before trump wins election

Dow: 17,888.28,
S&P 500: 2,085.18,
Nasdaq: 5,046.37,

today
dow 27,222
nasdaq 8207
S&P 500 2995

You do the math.

Why don't you try making a point rather than just posting stock exchange numbers and implying that because they are up, the President is not a god-awful imbecile who has no interest in his job.


The only time Trump looks like he is happy is when he is on stage performing for his base.



So some rich people got richer in the last couple of years - what a surprise.


The richest four people in the US have the same total wealth as the poorest 220 million people there - do you think that sort of colossal inequality is ok because 'the economy'?

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

duploelabs wrote: »

Can you answer the questions regarding the numbers you posted?

the numbers speak for themselves.
trumps wins election and it begins and has still not finished.


The only big business who want him gone now are social media giants but that is not a bad thing. Someone has to take on these monopolies.

Stop moaning ffs

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

the numbers speak for themselves.
trumps wins election and it begins and has still not finished.


The only big business who want him gone now are social media giants but that is not a bad thing. Someone has to take on these monopolies.

Can’t tell if you’re being serious.
How exactly is he taking on monopolies?

There’s far more importance serving society than rattling on about the stock market. He’s created and continues to create a huge divide in America. He’s broken it.

How is that in any way presidential or good for ordinary Americans the vast majority of whom aren’t involved in stock markets or any of that?

Do you have anything outside irrelevant stock market bluff?

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Why don't you try making a point rather than just posting stock exchange numbers and implying that because they are up, the President is not a god-awful imbecile who has no interest in his job.


The only time Trump looks like he is happy is when he is on stage performing for his base.



So some rich people got richer in the last couple of years - what a surprise.


The richest four people in the US have the same total wealth as the poorest 220 million people there - do you think that sort of colossal inequality is ok because 'the economy'?

1. my point has been made across many posts, you may not like such facts but i cant help you there.


2. your personal feelings about trump are not something i have to answer on


3. some rich people got richer? we all have got richer under trump. the fdi into ireland from large corporations some owned by the 4 richest people in the world has grown our economy where it is now performing as a real strong economy should. You may not like it but Trump has played his part.


4. as regards the worlds social inequality - it is up to everyone to take care of themselves. my life is good because i have a good job, own my own home and i have very little debt. i am happy.
but i used my work ethic and my intelligence to achieve this. I honestly do not care about anyone but my family and close friends, what inequalities people i dont know may have mean nothing to me.

Gbear

hill16bhoy wrote: »

We all know where the vilification of Ilhan Omar and the portrayal of Labour as an institutionally anti-Semitic party both come from.

It's blatant weaponisation of anti-Semitism as a smear to try and destroy those sympathetic to the cause of Palestine.

Atlantic magazine writer Ben Judah nailed it last week on C4 News when he said there is no "special relationship" between the US and Britain, but that the real special relationship is between the US and Israel.

All the while, the real and deeply toxic anti-Semitism that permeates the Republican party and its support is totally ignored.

That said, I have become very disillusioned with Corbyn's vacillation on Brexit.

As of this moment I wouldn't agree that the Tories will be torn apart at a general election but I guess that's a discussion for elsewhere.

That's because the near perpetual war in the Middle East has degraded the case for liberalism in Israel and their government is now cut from the same cloth as the Republican party.

Netenyahu is a crook who's trying to use the levers of power to keep him out of jail, just like Trump.

Maybe he has beliefs, but they're all subservient to power, wealth and corruption. That's why Trump's own anti-semitism doesn't matter. Because authoritarians, oligarchs and fascists are incredibly fluid in their morality. It is only ever used as a blunt instrument to push forward policy that increases their wealth or their power, and it can be flipped in an instant. That's why it's not surprising, and there's no value in pointing out, when Trump flip-flops.

He didn't lie the first time he made a statement, or the time he made a statement that totally contradicted the first one. It's beyond that. It's a state of being that rejects notions of truth or morality utterly in favour of purely self-interested utilitarianism.

looksee

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

1. my point has been made across many posts, you may not like such facts but i cant help you there.


2. your personal feelings about trump are not something i have to answer on


3. some rich people got richer? we all have got richer under trump. the fdi into ireland from large corporations some owned by the 4 richest people in the world has grown our economy where it is now performing as a real strong economy should. You may not like it but Trump has played his part.


4. as regards the worlds social inequality - it is up to everyone to take care of themselves. my life is good because i have a good job, own my own home and i have very little debt. i am happy.
but i used my work ethic and my intelligence to achieve this. I honestly do not care about anyone but my family and close friends, what inequalities people i dont know may have mean nothing to me.

Well good for you. Lets hope you don't get struck down by some debilitating illness. I am so glad I live in a 'socialist' country.

pixelburp

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

the numbers speak for themselves.
trumps wins election and it begins and has still not finished.


The only big business who want him gone now are social media giants but that is not a bad thing. Someone has to take on these monopolies.

No, the numbers do not speak for themselves. The DOW is not the economy. You realise the companies that have benefited from Trump's tax bill ARE those giant tech monopolies? Corporations are the winners here, and have not shown any huge uptick in re-investment, or passing it back as wages / to the consumers

Wages are stagnant, and way behind inflation. Those stats speak for themselves and more about the economy than market speculators.