Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

hill16bhoy

Imagine a President ripping up a perfectly good deal purely because Obama signed it and then going back cap in hand to try to get the same deal again.

You don't have to imagine it, because it's real.

https://twitter.com/ColinKahl/status/1152301082212573184

ancapailldorcha

Any more whataboutery will warrant a ban. The thread is about Donald Trump.

peddlelies

ECO_Mental wrote: »

There are so many more achivements that Trump has done I was going to try and list a few more but it was too big so here are just a few select highlights

• Adding Trillions to the national debt with tax breaks to his rich buddies
  
• Set up concentration camps for kids
  

Stopped reading there.

Perhaps come up with a more nuanced list of criticisms if you want any sort of credibility? There's a long list to chose from without resorting to ridiculous talking points.

batgoat

peddlelies wrote: »

Stopped reading there.

Perhaps come up with a more nuanced list of criticisms if you want any sort of credibility? There's a long list to chose from without resorting to ridiculous talking points.

Children are dying in those camps, they are refused medical care. They are not afforded the right to basic hygiene, explain how that's okay or what nuance is necessary?

Cody montana

peddlelies wrote: »

Stopped reading there.

Perhaps come up with a more nuanced list of criticisms if you want any sort of credibility? There's a long list to chose from without resorting to ridiculous talking points.

Yet, both are factually correct.

This is a shameful time in American history.

peddlelies

batgoat wrote: »

Children are dying in those camps, they are refused medical care. They are not afforded the right to basic hygiene, explain how that's okay or what nuance is necessary?

The detention centers are over run, who's denying that?

How many of the people there were rounded up by Trump's secret police or military against their own free will. They chose to go there and knew the implications of crossing the border illegally.

How many are there because of their ethnicity?

How many people there are forced into hard labour or executed?

The answer to all of those questions is zero. The use of the words "concentration camp" might make you feel so righteous inside fighting the evil dictatorship that is the Trump regime, but in my view it's laughable. When people see that term they think of Nazi Germany, there is a direct correlation there.

StringerBell

I think it might be better to look up the meaning of concentration camp? Not labour camp, not death camp. Concentration camp.

ECO_Mental

peddlelies wrote: »

batgoat wrote: »

Children are dying in those camps, they are refused medical care. They are not afforded the right to basic hygiene, explain how that's okay or what nuance is necessary?

The detention centers are over run, who's denying that?

How many of the people there were rounded up by Trump's secret police or military against their own free will. They chose to go there and knew the implications of crossing the border illegally.

How many are there because of their ethnicity?

How many people there are forced into hard labour or executed?

The answer to all of those questions is zero. The use of the words "concentration camp" might make you feel so righteous inside fighting the evil dictatorship that is the Trump regime, but in my view it's laughable. When people see that term they think of Nazi Germany, there is a direct correlation there.

we all are just adding 2 and 2 together and getting 4.....

Firstly he says that a bunch of white supremacist Nazis are fine people!

Secondly he starts demonizing a minority saying they are all criminals and rapists!!

He then starts rounding these people up (children and all)and caging in "concentrated" facilities with the very basic facilities and without trial!!

Now he is saying to people other than white to go back where you came from...

Writing this out has actually got me scared as this all sound VERY familar....

relax carry on

peddlelies wrote: »

Stopped reading there.

Perhaps come up with a more nuanced list of criticisms if you want any sort of credibility? There's a long list to chose from without resorting to ridiculous talking points.

How are any of those ridiculous talking points? Just because you don't like uncomfortable truths about Trump doesn't mean that they are true. And in order for them to be accepted as Ridiculous talking points, you'd kinda have to engage and state why they are ridiculous.

Also "come up with a more nuanced list of criticisms"? What does that mean in the context of your post? You want someone to come up with a more subtle list of criticisms of Trump other than the really obvious ones posted earlier that you dismissed as "ridiculous talking points"?

Timberrrrrrrr

peddlelies wrote: »

Stopped reading there.

Perhaps come up with a more nuanced list of criticisms if you want any sort of credibility? There's a long list to chose from without resorting to ridiculous talking points.

Well there is his 11,000+ lies, what do you think of his lies? Is this really someone you trust?

BonnieSituation

It's extremely transparent how the onslaught of this thread from trolls and Trumpettes appeared almost as instantaneously as the sh1t was hitting the fan in a big way for Le Don this week.

Still not one of the Supporters have come up with anything credible outside of the usual, and continuously debunked, talking points.

kowloon

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's extremely transparent how the onslaught of this thread from trolls and Trumpettes appeared almost as instantaneously as the sh1t was hitting the fan in a big way for Le Don this week.

Has it? It seems like business as usual to me.

Stop moaning ffs

Children separated from their parents and kept in concentration camps and some of them dying

But look over here the economy is doing amazing all thanks to trump!


Anyone pushing that at this point is a genuine troll or completely deluded.

It his ranks up with the darkest ugliest times of American history and it’s not even over yet.
Anyone supporting this abhorrent inhuman president needs to have a serious talk with themselves.

Danzy

The problem for the Dems is that in many areas that benefit from globalization, are well to do they need a candidate more to the Left or strong Social Justice vibe.

In areas that have lost our, are strongly working class, the Justice Democrats types are toxic and out of touch.

Personally I'd like to see Sanders win if it wasn't Trump.

There are probably 3 different factions in the Dems, often quite different and hostile, pulling in different directions.

In the Republican party there might be a lot of disillusioned libertarians etc but they are sucking it up and getting behind.

The Dems need someone from the mid West, not New England, problem for Bernie.

FartyBlartFast

Danzy wrote: »

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Children separated from their parents and kept in concentration camps and some of them dying

But look over here the economy is doing amazing all thanks to trump!


Anyone pushing that at this point is a genuine troll or completely deluded.

It his ranks up with the darkest ugliest times of American history and it’s not even over yet.
Anyone supporting this abhorrent inhuman president needs to have a serious talk with themselves.

You need to write that as a strongly worded letter to the Sindo.

You're kind of proving his point, with posts like that.

It says a lot that this is the best defense Trump supporters are able to come up with of throwing children into concentration camps.

Meanwhile you have other Trump supporters claiming it is anti semitic to call them concentration camps as it is disrespectful to Holocaust survivors... then turning right around and dismissing actual Holocaust and internment survivors who are calling them concentration camps too.

All of this virtue signalling from the likes of you two is somewhat cultish, to be honest.

Leroy42

Danzy wrote: »

The problem for the Dems is that in many areas that benefit from globalization, are well to do they need a candidate more to the Left or strong Social Justice vibe.

In areas that have lost our, are strongly working class, the Justice Democrats types are toxic and out of touch.

Personally I'd like to see Sanders win if it wasn't Trump.

There are probably 3 different factions in the Dems, often quite different and hostile, pulling in different directions.

In the Republican party there might be a lot of disillusioned libertarians etc but they are sucking it up and getting behind.

The Dems need someone from the mid West, not New England, problem for Bernie.

But all of that runs totally contrary to Trump himself. Trump is from NY for petes sake! Why all these rules now? The GOP are not united, they couldn't even get their platform policy of replacing Obamacare through. Or the wall.

BonnieSituation

kowloon wrote: »

Has it? It seems like business as usual to me.

There was something different about this weeks craptacular imho.

Cody montana

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There was something different about this weeks craptacular imho.

It’s a new low perhaps?

Igotadose

Manic Moran wrote: »

The lack of co-ordination was precisely why it was decided to put all the different agencies revolving around domestic security under the one umbrella.

Before DHS, Border Patrol was under DoJ, with INS. Customs was Dept of the Treasury, as was the Coast Guard. Airport security standards were set by the FAA, railway security by the FRA. I couldn't tell you who did shore-side port security or buses. Intel and traditional counter-terrorism/counter-espionage came from DoJ, DoD, or the TLAs. Air marshals were either FAA or Treasury, depending on the year (Most recently before DHS, FAA). I'm sure there were other linkages.

Even with the best of intentions, it's no wonder that things were slipping through the cracks. DHS is the target of politicians not because of a lack of perceived need, but because they are responsible for immigration enforcement which is a political issue right now.

On my facebook feed today, people are complaining about the just-announced ICE operation targetting migrants who had been ordered deported by the court but had absconded, and they're not being very complimentary about ICE. If the argument has become that an agency is to be decried for enforcing the laws, then the argument as a whole has become invalid.

This article: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/aoc-dhs-break-up.html

talks about how well DHS has done since being formed. Not surprisingly, not too well - bureaucracies are mostly about growth and self-perpetuation, DHS is good at that. And, with 'the best people' Trump can come up with, to quote the article: "Customs and the INS were run as fairly professional law enforcement agencies, with varying degrees of laxity or fervency, depending on the times. Under a more normal administration, CBP might still operate in that manner. But lassoed into a political department and run by a handpicked operative, it has turned into an enforcement squad for Trump’s obsessively anti-immigrant agenda. Even under Trump’s orders, would the competent bureaucrats of the old Customs Service have herded children into cages? Maybe. But they might have handled things in a more professional fashion because it would have been an independent agency following its own rules and codes, rather than a subset of a super-agency run by a political appointee."

FartyBlartFast

BonnieSituation wrote: »

kowloon wrote: »

Has it? It seems like business as usual to me.

There was something different about this weeks craptacular imho.

That has been an interesting development, a few days ago Trump supporters were adamant that this debacle was hugely damaging to democrats and that it was some kind of masterplan by Trump.

It's all gone pretty terribly wrong, to the point that foreign governments and even the likes if Ben Shapiro are calling it fascist at this point, causing Trump to flip flop from basking in it on the night, to trying to disavow it a day or two after, to scurrying back to try and support those doing it right after again.

You know when Trumps supporters are aware he messed up, because they fall silent while waiting for his excuse for them to parrot, because they are aware it will be so weak and hypocritical that to speak before it will only contradict what he eventually says. It's a classic telltale sign, and one that was immediately noticeable the night of/day after the "send her home" chants.

Whether it was a random lashing out or used to deflect from the Epstein arrest (for which one of his campaign advisors, George Nader, has now also been charged), this has proven a major misstep for Trump. It won't deter his most slavishly devoted followers, but then again neither would a video of him forcibly raping a child at this point, but he and his supporters have really let themselves down in showing their true colour in recent weeks when it comes to racism, fascism, concentration camps, and their attitudes minorities.

All in all, a pretty big fail.

FartyBlartFast

Manic Moran wrote: »

If the argument has become that an agency is to be decried for enforcing the laws, then the argument as a whole has become invalid.

That is disingenuous in the extreme. People are not complaining about ICE enforcing the law, they are complaining about ICE throwing children into concentration camps with inhumane conditions (where many have died and/or gone missing) and having zero disregard for human fights, while a huge chunk of them flaunt their open hatred for and racism against these same children online, including leadership who would later lie about their own involvement.

People cannot, and should not, trust an organisation like that to fairly enforce the law, or to ha e any respect for human rights while doing so.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

Good news for trump
Dixiecrats are alive and well

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sinema-program-remove-migrants-asylum

FartyBlartFast

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

Good news for trump
Dixiecrats are alive and well

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sinema-program-remove-migrants-asylum

Can you please substantiate your claim from yesterday about kamala Harris not being black? A moderator specifically asked you to at post number 1,826 but you do not appear to have done so yet.

duploelabs

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

Can you please substantiate your claim from yesterday about kamala Harris not being black? A moderator specifically asked you to at post number 1,826 but you do not appear to have done so yet.

I'm still waiting for him to explain how those stock market figures

peddlelies

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

That is disingenuous in the extreme. People are not complaining about ICE enforcing the law

Plenty of Democrats are, in fact Democrat Mayors have warned prior of Ice raids. Tipping off criminals for future votes, classy stuff all round.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

Can you please substantiate your claim from yesterday about kamala Harris not being black? A moderator specifically asked you to at post number 1,826 but you do not appear to have done so yet.

I answered that post. I never said that
If you or the mod or any other mod can show where i wrote that I will happily substantiate

FartyBlartFast

peddlelies wrote: »

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

That is disingenuous in the extreme. People are not complaining about ICE enforcing the law

Plenty of Democrats are, in fact Democrat Mayors have warned prior of Ice raids. Tipping off criminals for future votes, classy stuff all round.

Already covered in the post you are responding to. It's not enforcing immigration that the people are unhappy about - illegal immigration numbers have been going down since Bush Jr, yet there was no national outcry since we weren't dealing with children being left in their own feces in concentration camps, en masse - its that they don't trust ICE to enforce the law within the confines of human rights.

The agency has lost its legitimacy with the general public, and they only have themselves to blame.

FartyBlartFast

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

Can you please substantiate your claim from yesterday about kamala Harris not being black? A moderator specifically asked you to at post number 1,826 but you do not appear to have done so yet.

I answered that post. I never said that
If you or the mod or any other mod can show where i wrote that I will happily substantiate

The moderator asked you to substantiate on post 1,826.

Since the. You have posted 3 times in this thread. The post I am quoting now, a post about Dixiecrats, and a post about ISIS.

You have not done as asked. Please do so, as we are eager for you to - as you were told to despite refusing - spell it out for us.

everlast75

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

Already covered in the post you are responding to. It's not enforcing immigration that the people are unhappy about - illegal immigration numbers have been going down since Bush Jr, yet there was no national outcry since we weren't dealing with children being left in their own feces in concentration camps, en masse - its that they don't trust ICE to enforce the law within the confines of human rights.

The agency has lost its legitimacy with the general public, and they only have themselves to blame.

Flows from the top down.

The rank and file got the go ahead from Donny. The Facebook group is quite telling

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

FartyBlartFast wrote: »

The moderator asked you to substantiate on post 1,826.

Since the. You have posted 3 times in this thread. The post I am quoting now, a post about Dixiecrats, and a post about ISIS.

You have not done as asked. Please do so, as we are eager for you to - as you were told to despite refusing - spell it out for us.

If you look at my original post I did not mention Kamala Harris colour
And further in I did spell it out what I meant
Now please put up where I did for all to see
If you don’t we will know I am vindicated and it will be you who will need to substantiate on why you are obsessed with a post I never made