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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

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    #2282
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Some of the questions, sure, but far from all of them.

    Watching MSNBC for my sins and even their political pundits said that the ongoing investigation didn't excuse some of his swerves.
    Didn't Fox News air it?


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    #2283
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Far as i know Barr is just reviewing the origins of russiagate , may be wrong about this? Mueller was asked did you interview Christoper Steele and he refused to answer. It simple yes or no answer this and it would in no way affect another investigation. Steele dossier was discussed in the Mueller report and the only complication would be if Muller was discussing new findings at the hearing.
    Mueller indicating whether he interviewed Steele would absolutely have the potential of prejudicing another investigation.


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    #2284
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    On another but related note, its being reported that Epstein was found semi-conscious on the floor of his cell with neck injuries this morning.


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    #2285
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    No harm, though you'd wonder was it done on orders of a "friend" or an enemy given the amount of high profile people probably ****ting it right now

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #2286
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Appearance by Mueller is an embarrassment. He is refusing to answer basic questions about the investigation. It beyond my purview seriously? You there to answer questions about your report and he should be allowed to just say i can not answer that. Politics in America is truly broken when you can't find out why the investigation started and why. He's refusal to answer basic questions about the Steele dossier is tragic.
    This is an extraordinarily disingenuous statement considering the fact that it's the DOJ (read: Barr) that outlined what Mueller could and couldn't discuss.


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    #2287
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Yeah it was quite the set up alright, and Mueller in fairness for a lot of it allowed it to be successful.

    Barr "You can't talk about x,y,z"
    Republicans "Ask questions or make tirades regarding x,y,z"
    Mueller "I can't talk about that, I can't answer that"

    Dems point out that according to DOJ Mueller can't discuss certain topics? Course not.

    Fox/Republican commentators - WHY WON'T HE ANSWER?!?!?! WHATS HE HIDING?!?!?!

    Provides plenty of counter tv spots to be run on right wing media, the actual factual stuff related to the investigation will be lost in that noise in the bubble I'd imagine largely, which makes the hearing a success really for the Republicans overall you'd have to say.

    Time will tell I guess.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #2288
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,592 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I just find it amazing that so many, here and in the US, are most interested in whataboutery that what actually happened.

    Clearly Trump has some serious questions to answer in terms of obstruction. Yet many seem to think that he should be allowed obstruct on the basis that he should never have been investigated. Or that even if he did obstruck other people did wrong things as well.

    For a man that claimed he was going to drain the swamp, his supporters seem totally unwilling to ask that he starts with himself.

    It reminds me, in a small way, about the whole episode with Bertie and the tribunals. Supporters seem genuinely more interested in protecting their man then the truth or the country.

    The country should always come first. And it is what the politicians demand of the citizens, be it to pay taxes or fight wars. But Trump supporters (and they are not the only ones) seem to believe that country should come a distant second. Defence of their man comes first.


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    #2289
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    That's just it, the tribalism. Too many are simply entrenched in their position of this is my team, to quote Boris Johnson "Do or Die"

    This isn't just a one sided problem though I would argue that one side is significantly worse at it.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #2290
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I just find it amazing that so many, here and in the US, are most interested in whataboutery that what actually happened.

    Clearly Trump has some serious questions to answer in terms of obstruction. Yet many seem to think that he should be allowed obstruct on the basis that he should never have been investigated. Or that even if he did obstruck other people did wrong things as well.

    For a man that claimed he was going to drain the swamp, his supporters seem totally unwilling to ask that he starts with himself.

    It reminds me, in a small way, about the whole episode with Bertie and the tribunals. Supporters seem genuinely more interested in protecting their man then the truth or the country.

    The country should always come first. And it is what the politicians demand of the citizens, be it to pay taxes or fight wars. But Trump supporters (and they are not the only ones) seem to believe that country should come a distant second. Defence of their man comes first.

    I find it doubly amazing that the very people who are trying to undermine everything Mueller reported consider themselves 'Patriots' and wrap themselves in the Stars and Stripes while spitting vitriol. These so-called Patriots are quite willing to ignore that their country was ATTACKED by a foreign hostile power and they seem more interested in protecting their man than in ensuring it never happens again! It's absolutely mind-boggling!


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    #2291
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    I find it doubly amazing that the very people who are trying to undermine everything Mueller reported consider themselves 'Patriots' and wrap themselves in the Stars and Stripes while spitting vitriol. These so-called Patriots are quite willing to ignore that their country was ATTACKED by a foreign hostile power and they seem more interested in protecting their man than in ensuring it never happens again! It's absolutely mind-boggling!

    I have to agree. If nothing else, the Mueller report clearly proved

    a) Russia tried to help Trump win the election (how much they succeeded in terms of influencing votes can't be measured, but they tried regardless)
    b) The Trump campaign welcomed and expected to benefit from Russia's help
    c) Senior members of the Trump campaign were working with foreign entities to help influence the election and enrich themselves in the process
    d) All of the above could have compromised members of the Trump team regarding bribes/influence/blackmail related to their acceptance of Russian assistance
    e) The Russian campaign was an attack on a Presidential election

    Regardless of evidence of conspiracy, the origins of the Mueller report or anything relating to obstruction, how does any American person, group or political party not see that as anything less than an attack on America itself?


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    #2292
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Penn wrote: »
    I have to agree. If nothing else, the Mueller report clearly proved

    a) Russia tried to help Trump win the election (how much they succeeded in terms of influencing votes can't be measured, but they tried regardless)
    b) The Trump campaign welcomed and expected to benefit from Russia's help
    c) Senior members of the Trump campaign were working with foreign entities to help influence the election and enrich themselves in the process
    d) All of the above could have compromised members of the Trump team regarding bribes/influence/blackmail related to their acceptance of Russian assistance
    e) The Russian campaign was an attack on a Presidential election

    Regardless of evidence of conspiracy, the origins of the Mueller report or anything relating to obstruction, how does any American person, group or political party not see that as anything less than an attack on America itself?

    Because they have a vested interest in not doing so.

    Their side won and that's all their care about. They don't care about the process. They don't respect it. They don't even particularly understand it, or why it's important.

    There's elements of ignorance, of nihilism, of authoritarianism and of strict adherence to hierarchy. Systematic thinking, which can help undermine our worst instincts and biases can help, but only so much, and plenty of logical people can work themselves into these kinds of nonsensical, self-defeating positions.

    I don't think it's an accident that so many "nerds" are taken in by conspiracy theories.


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    #2293
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Gbear wrote: »

    I don't think it's an accident that so many "nerds" are taken in by conspiracy theories.

    If Epstein dies (or doesn't) there will be genuine room for conspiracy theories.

    If he survives, his word will be very unreliable. If he doesn't ....what is happening here?


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    #2294
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    This is an extraordinarily disingenuous statement considering the fact that it's the DOJ (read: Barr) that outlined what Mueller could and couldn't discuss.

    Feel bad for the guy, democrats should be ashamed, but for months liberals had been asking everyone had they read the Mueller report, over and over, celebrities even preformed dramatic readings of it, but yet when it came to the day, turns out Mueller hadn't read the Mueller report.


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    #2295
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Did you hear the one about trump appearing In a video standing in front of the US seal. Except it wasn’t the US seal. It was ‘tampered’ with and was actually the Russian seal. But it was a mistake. Golf clubs included. Seems to me there’s probably quite a few in his administration actively working against him.


    https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/president-trump/how-did-trump-end-up-in-front-of-a-presidential-seal-doctored-to-include-a-russian-symbol/ar-AAEPTgk?li=BBr5KbJ&ocid=mailsignout


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    #2296
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Did you hear the one about trump appearing In a video standing in front of the US seal. Except it wasn’t the US seal. It was ‘tampered’ with and was actually the Russian seal. But it was a mistake. Golf clubs included. Seems to me there’s probably quite a few in his administration actively working against him.


    https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/president-trump/how-did-trump-end-up-in-front-of-a-presidential-seal-doctored-to-include-a-russian-symbol/ar-AAEPTgk?li=BBr5KbJ&ocid=mailsignout


    Not only was it a specific double headed eagle that is part of the Russian coat of Arms, along with the golf clubs it was also clutching wads of cash, the stars on the flag are replaced with a hammer and sickle and the banner reads "45 is a puppet"


    https://i.imgur.com/GosXIRr.jpg



    Fair play to whoever pulled this off


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    #2297
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Not only was it a specific double headed eagle that is part of the Russian coat of Arms, along with the golf clubs it was also clutching wads of cash, the stars on the flag are replaced with a hammer and sickle and the banner reads "45 is a puppet"


    https://i.imgur.com/GosXIRr.jpg



    Fair play to whoever pulled this off



    Mad right?
    Surely whoever did it would be very easily identified and trump gets to say his old favourite You’re fired!!


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    #2298
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Feel bad for the guy, democrats should be ashamed, but for months liberals had been asking everyone had they read the Mueller report, over and over, celebrities even preformed dramatic readings of it, but yet when it came to the day, turns out Mueller hadn't read the Mueller report.

    Contrary to what some people said here, Mueller did walk back his opinion on the OLC. He didn't reach a conclusion on whether Trump obstructed justice. He didn't mean to imply that the only reason Trump wasn't changed is because he's a sitting President. Fairly big leap to be fair and that distinction needs to be made.

    The other angle they're grasping at now is that Mueller said a President could be indicted after leaving office. That's like me saying I could fly to the moon if I built a rocket. The dictionary definitions of the worlds "could" and "should" need to be more closely examined.

    https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1154080208112144384


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    #2299
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    peddlelies wrote: »
    The other angle they're grasping at now is that Mueller said a President could be indicted after leaving office. That's like me saying I could fly to the moon if I built a rocket. The dictionary definitions of the worlds "could" and "should" need to be more closely examined.

    Mueller gave his opinion on something that he is hugely knowledgeable about. So his opinion is both valid and valuab!e in respect of whether Trump could be indicted once out of office. On the other hand, unless you are a combination astronaut and rocket scientist, your opinion in relation to Moon missions is neither valid nor really of any value.

    Are you a combination astronaut and rocket scientist?

    :P


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    #2300
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Mueller gave his opinion on something that he is hugely knowledgeable about. So his opinion is both valid and valuab!e in respect of whether Trump could be indicted once out of office. On the other hand, unless you are a combination astronaut and rocket scientist, your opinion in relation to Moon missions is neither valid nor really of any value.

    Are you a combination astronaut and rocket scientist?

    :P

    Bit of an exaggeration on my part to be fair :o

    I feel a bit bad for Mueller today, the soundbites of him stumbling are doing the rounds in the media and online and that's unfair I feel. He's an old man who's age has clearly affected him negatively. His reputation has been dented badly by yesterdays proceedings.

    On the other hand I think of people like General Flynn and what he's gone through...


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    #2301
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    peddlelies wrote: »
    Bit of an exaggeration on my part to be fair :o

    I feel a bit bad for Mueller today, the soundbites of him stumbling are doing the rounds in the media and online and that's unfair I feel. He's an old man who's age has clearly affected him negatively. His reputation has been dented badly by yesterdays proceedings.

    On the other hand I think of people like General Flynn and what he's gone through...

    What's he gone through?


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    #2302
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    peddlelies wrote: »
    Bit of an exaggeration on my part to be fair :o

    I feel a bit bad for Mueller today, the soundbites of him stumbling are doing the rounds in the media and online and that's unfair I feel. He's an old man who's age has clearly affected him negatively. His reputation has been dented badly by yesterdays proceedings.

    On the other hand I think of people like General Flynn and what he's gone through...

    That’s ridiculous. You’re clearly delighted the media you absorb have focused on his age the report is still there. Trump colluded with the Russians. That’s fact.

    Questions from Schiff

    Question: “Trump and his campaign welcomed & encouraged Russian interference?”

    Mueller: “Yes.”

    Question: “And then Trump and his campaign lied about it to cover it up?”

    Mueller: “Yes.”


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    #2303
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    What's he gone through?

    Bankruptcy and being dragged through the courts. Andrew McCabe screwed him over pretty much.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-flynn-entrapment-11544658915


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    #2304
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    peddlelies wrote: »
    Bit of an exaggeration on my part to be fair :o

    I feel a bit bad for Mueller today, the soundbites of him stumbling are doing the rounds in the media and online and that's unfair I feel. He's an old man who's age has clearly affected him negatively. His reputation has been dented badly by yesterdays proceedings.

    On the other hand I think of people like General Flynn and what he's gone through...

    You're not very subtle at painting Mueller in a particular light who constantly treated the investigation professionally and assessed the findings in a professional manner. Meanwhile Flynn is a criminal who conducted himself terribly.


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    #2305
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    peddlelies wrote: »
    Bankruptcy and being dragged through the courts. Andrew McCabe screwed him over pretty much.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-flynn-entrapment-11544658915

    was he not working for the turks?


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    #2306
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    batgoat wrote: »
    You're not very subtle at painting Mueller in a particular light who constantly treated the investigation professionally and assessed the findings in a professional manner. Meanwhile Flynn is a criminal who conducted himself terribly.

    How do you know that? I know the SC omitted key sentences in campaign emails for court filings to change the context of said emails entirely. I know they raided and pointed guns at people who weren't a physical threat, stuck others in solitary confinement, and according to reports they attempted to coarse damaging untrue statements from people in exchange for immunity.

    Mueller gave the appearance that he learned more about the Mueller report than anyone else yesterday. His performance was laughable, and I don't like using that word because clearly he has problems associated with his age.


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    #2307
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Trump supporters delighting in an elderly mans age related difficulties yet totally ignoring the very apparent dementia and adarol fuelled nonsensical rants both in public and on twitter.

    Something to really think about.


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    #2308
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Trump supporters delighting in an elderly mans age related difficulties yet totally ignoring the very apparent dementia and adarol fuelled nonsensical rants both in public and on twitter.

    Something to really think about.

    Who put him up on that stage knowing his condition?

    Something to really think about indeed.


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    #2309
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    peddlelies wrote: »
    How do you know that? I know the SC omitted key sentences in campaign emails for court filings to change the context of said emails entirely. I know they raided and pointed guns at people who weren't a physical threat, stuck others in solitary confinement, and according to reports they attempted to coarse damaging untrue statements from people in exchange for immunity.

    Mueller gave the appearance that he learned more about the Mueller report than anyone else yesterday. His performance was laughable, and I don't like using that word because clearly he has problems associated with his age.

    Because if he had engaged in anything unethical or questionable, the GOP would lynch him over it. Think you're pretty intent on misrepresenting his statements yesterday. Btw, not being an amazing public speaker does not make him either mentally unwell or poor at his job.


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    #2310
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    batgoat wrote: »
    Btw, not being an amazing public speaker does not make him either mentally unwell or poor at his job.

    Strange how your standards change when it comes to Trump.

    Mueller, in my opinion, is not all there. I think for most people that was evident yesterday.


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    #2311
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,276 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    peddlelies wrote: »
    Bankruptcy and being dragged through the courts. Andrew McCabe screwed him over pretty much.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-flynn-entrapment-11544658915

    There's a massive difference between being screwed by someone and being convicted in a court of law


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