Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

BonnieSituation

duploelabs wrote: »

Upon watching The Great Hack on Netflix (suggested watching along with Get Me Roger Stone), the GOP don't want to rock the boat as that Russian/Cambridge Analytica axis got them in to power, and why should integrity interfere with that

Again, I posted with my tongue in cheek with that.

It's simply outrageous.

duploelabs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

McConnell has blocked two bills to prevent further interference in future elections


Can anyone tell me why that might be?

He got a massive investment in Kentucky from a Russian company, also as I said above watch The Great Hack

Stop moaning ffs

duploelabs wrote: »

He got a massive investment in Kentucky from a Russian company, also as I said above watch The Great Hack

Didn’t know that thanks.

Surely that should be alarms all over. Taking investment from a Russian company? In his position?


I’d love a trump supporter to answer my original question

duploelabs

I'd also love Rigolo to respond to the recent North Korean missile launch and not a peep from Trump

Penn

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Surely that should be alarms all over. Taking investment from a Russian company? In his position?

There's a few houses in our estate where it seems like every few days analarm will go off, different one each time. No robbery or anything, but just nearly every second day, there's an alarm going off for an hour or two.

Eventually, you just learn to ignore the noise.

It's similar to alarms that should be going off in America with election interference, self-enrichment, conflicts of interest etc. So many alarms have been going off so often that most American's have become numb to the noise.

Difference is; their house is actually being robbed.

Gbear

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Didn’t know that thanks.

Surely that should be alarms all over. Taking investment from a Russian company? In his position?

Not only that, but the company was Rusal. Oleg Deripaska was chairman and the largest shareholder of that company. McConnell pushed to have the sanctions lifted on Deripaska, and a few weeks later, by total coincidence, the company invests $200m in Kentucky.

A major shareholder in Rusal is Leonid Blavatnik, and he has given millions of dollars to McConnell and the RNC.

Also, one of Trump's transition team, Christopher Burnham was placed on the revamped board of directors as part of the deal to remove sanctions from the company.

Absolutely nothing to see here... :rolleyes:

Leroy42

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I know fan of Trump, it obvious he is a racist and compulsive liar, but there was never any evidence him and putin conspired to undermine votes in the American election. If you truly want to bring down Trump explore his corrupt dealings and business ties. I bet you find lot of shady stuff happening there still.

Lot of people have invested two years posting about this and are afraid it was waste of time and Trump will not be got ridden off, and this fine, but you losing your brains thinking Trump is damaged by this and will be removed from office.

But there was clearly questions that needed to be answered. Flynn, Manafort, Trump Jr meeting, Trumps failure to every say anything bad about Putin, Trump siding with Putin over the US.

It is never a bad idea to investigate those in power. They should always feel that at any time things they have done can be reviewed, questioned, reopened.

In a democracy it seems pretty strange that the leader of that democracy, as well as their supporters, take the view that time is wasted in protecting democracy.

Without trust in the system, the system will fall apart.

So it wasn't time wasted. It is clear that now Trump will not be removed from office because of the Mueller investigation. But if it makes him, and his team, think twice about repeating the same actions then it would have been worth it.

People should look at the examples of Flynn and see that you need to be wary of those others promising you the stars. The man has destroyed his reputation, will now always be seen as a sell-out of the US. Was it worth it just to get Trump into the WH? I very much doubt he thinks it is.

It is right that HC was investigated from the server issue. It is right that Trumps business dealings are looked into. You wouldn't accept a soldier in the US army that was getting paid by another country. You wouldn't accept a politician for one party getting advisor parments from the other party. But it seems those are perfectly acceptable for Trump.

Cheerful Spring2

duploelabs wrote: »

OK you completely waffled to a question which was a follow up to an initial one that you (again ignored) so I'll ask again....

Given this interchange between Republican Buck Aland Mueller yesterday, can you comment directly on it (without the Hillary/fusion GPS obfuscation) do you agree with this below?

Buck: "Could charge the president with a crime after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."

Buck: "You believe that you could charge the president of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."

https://twitter.com/ky.../1154040136109215744

Yes i accept Mueller said this.

Mueller left it up to others to decide had Trump obstructed the investigation. Mueller himself even said his investigation was not stopped, curtailed and hindered in anyway. I also gather Trump never intervened, prevented and stopped, Mueller team interviews.

We can see from Mueller performance, his staff wrote most of the report, and he was just a figure head brought in to give it some legitimacy.

AF Barr and Rothstein said the obstructiuon evidence was insufficient to bring charges. Of course democrats don't like this ruling and think they're bias.

The problem for Democrats with any obstruction charges you have to show evidence of criminal intent or trump was involved in corrupt intent. Mueller failed in this task and there no evidence Trump was deliberately hiding info belonging to a crime he had done.

Since Mueller found know evidence Trump conspired with Russia he is innocent till proven guilty. Democrats just completely ignore the main charge turned to be false, least no evidence is found to date. There not going to be able to bring charges against the president after he left office, as they failed to show corrupt intent or wrongdoing in the first place.

duploelabs

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Yes i accept Mueller said this.

Mueller left it up to others to decide had Trump obstructed the investigation. Mueller himself even said his investigation was not stopped, curtailed and hindered in anyway. I also gather Trump never intervened, prevented and stopped, Mueller team interviews.

We can see from Mueller performance, his staff wrote most of the report, and he was just a figure head brought in to give it some legitimacy.

AF Barr and Rothstein said the obstructiuon evidence was insufficient to bring charges. Of course democrats don't like this ruling and think they're bias.

The problem for Democrats with any obstruction charges you have to show evidence of criminal intent or trump was involved in corrupt intent. Mueller failed in this task and there no evidence Trump was deliberately hiding info belonging to a crime he had done.

Since Mueller found know evidence Trump conspired with Russia he is innocent till proven guilty. Democrats just completely ignore the main charge turned to be false, least no evidence is found to date. There not going to be able to bring charges against the president after he left office, as they failed to show corrupt intent or wrongdoing in the first place.

Yes they did, read the quote again ffs

StringerBell

No evidence? I would certainly dispute he found no evidence. As would anybody who has been following the story, read the report, even just watched the testimony.

There was certainly evidence, provable beyond a reasonable doubt? Not in Mueller's opinion, but as he has stated himself given the OLC memo he wouldn't have been able to indict the sitting president regardless so his main focus was very clearly, on the actual Russian interference. Forgetting the ins and outs of political theatre which he has no interest in. He became a more alert witness, a more responsive witness etc when they got into the intelligence committee part. This was no coincidence.

Whatever games people want to play, on both sides, politically, his concern was getting the American people to be aware of, to pay attention to and to push their lawmakers to deal with the Russian attack on their democratic system.

Unfortunately the likes of McConnell and Trump have no interest in this.

Cheerful Spring2

Leroy42 wrote: »

But there was clearly questions that needed to be answered. Flynn, Manafort, Trump Jr meeting, Trumps failure to every say anything bad about Putin, Trump siding with Putin over the US.

It is never a bad idea to investigate those in power. They should always feel that at any time things they have done can be reviewed, questioned, reopened.

In a democracy it seems pretty strange that the leader of that democracy, as well as their supporters, take the view that time is wasted in protecting democracy.

Without trust in the system, the system will fall apart.

So it wasn't time wasted. It is clear that now Trump will not be removed from office because of the Mueller investigation. But if it makes him, and his team, think twice about repeating the same actions then it would have been worth it.

People should look at the examples of Flynn and see that you need to be wary of those others promising you the stars. The man has destroyed his reputation, will now always be seen as a sell-out of the US. Was it worth it just to get Trump into the WH? I very much doubt he thinks it is.

It is right that HC was investigated from the server issue. It is right that Trumps business dealings are looked into. You wouldn't accept a soldier in the US army that was getting paid by another country. You wouldn't accept a politician for one party getting advisor parments from the other party. But it seems those are perfectly acceptable for Trump.

The issue i have with this investigation it all started because of the steele dossier. A dossier now proven to be just unsubstantiated rumor about Trump. There even evidence steele was hired by a company or firm called Fusion GPS. So we know it was not an independent study or a leak of intelligence. Steele paid a bunch of foreign nationals for information about Trump. This is clear outright collusion to find dirt about Trump and did not matter if the information sources were revealing was the truth.

I not opposed to investigating those in power, but as a nuetral i see a clear bias by the democrats and ignorning info. They label it a conspiracy theory when Repubicans asked Mueller about Fusion GPS and this firm links with Hilary team and campaign.

Server- Issue. I have my own thoughts about this and i believe the evidence the Russia did it is plain wrong. Of course the official line is accepted by most of you so i leave it at that to avoid arguments. But i have provided an update about Seth Rich on the conspiracy forum.

We have had two years of investigating Trump and nobody has found any conclusive and damning evidence he conspired with Russia and there certainly no evidence he was as an active measures agent for Russia. When do we move on accept Mueller findings?

everlast75

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The issue i have with this investigation it all started because of the steele dossier

I stopped reading there because..

No.
It.
Didn't.

Educate yourself on the facts. It will save you a lot of time.

StringerBell

Steele dossier has not been proven to be just unsubstantiated rumour about Trump nor was it the start of this investigation.

There really should be a standard of posting, were you not banned the last time for continually posting lies even when they were pointed out to be such time and time again?

Just engage in a good faith debate, you will feel better about it.

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

There's a few houses in our estate where it seems like every few days analarm will go off, different one each time. No robbery or anything, but just nearly every second day, there's an alarm going off for an hour or two.

Eventually, you just learn to ignore the noise.

It's similar to alarms that should be going off in America with election interference, self-enrichment, conflicts of interest etc. So many alarms have been going off so often that most American's have become numb to the noise.

Difference is; their house is actually being robbed.

Weren't they bi-partisan bills too?

Cheerful Spring2

StringerBell wrote: »

Steele dossier has not been proven to be just unsubstantiated rumour about Trump nor was it the start of this investigation.

There really should be a standard of posting, were you not banned the last time for continually posting lies even when they were pointed out to be such time and time again?

Just engage in a good faith debate, you will feel better about it.

Love it. You guys claim this and ignore the hearing and statements by congress members.

Do you think Trump send in a team to hack the DNC?

Steele dossier is a how it all begun and where allegations were made Trump conspired wih Russia to win the election. You just read your own bias links and ignore how events unfolded.

I was not banned, it was off topic remark about another subject, i was told to leave the thread for few weeks. So get your facts straight.

everlast75

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Love it. You guys claim this and ignore the hearing and statements by congress members.

Do you think Trump send in a team to hack the DNC?

Steele dossier is a how it all begun and where allegations were made Trump conspired wih Russia to win the election. You just read your own bias links and ignore how events unfolded.

I was not banned, it was off topic remark about another subject, i was told to leave the thread for few weeks. So get your facts straight.

Let me spell it out for you.

Mueller confirmed this Wednesday.

The investigation opened because of George Papadopoulos.

Cody montana

U.S. economic growth fell to a 2.1% annual rate in the second quarter — down from a 3.1% pace in the first three months of 2019, the Commerce Department said. But growth came in slightly stronger than many analysts had expected.

peddlelies

everlast75 wrote: »

Let me spell it out for you.

Mueller confirmed this Wednesday.

The investigation opened because of George Papadopoulos.

Could you provide a link for that or paste that part of the transcript, thanks.

peddlelies

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

That makes very little sense for a number of reasons.

1) if the fact he was questioned for 6 hours explained his demeanor, then how come he was that way from the get-go?
2) he didn't just forget specific hard to recall details of the report as you suggest, he was flummoxed at the mere bloody mention of Fusion GPS for heaven sake, that speaks volumes and
3) when asked which president it was that appointed him he couldn't even remember that and guessed Bush, but then had to be told it was Reagan.

Democrats should be ashamed of themselves.

I also read earlier that's he has appeared in front of committees over 60 times so he's not the rabbit in the headlights as some suggested, and the soundbites/videos of those appearances paint a very different picture of the man.

Cheerful Spring2

everlast75 wrote: »

Let me spell it out for you.

Mueller confirmed this Wednesday.

The investigation opened because of George Papadopoulos.

You not aware Mueller dismissed this allegation in the mueller report. They found no evidence Papdopoulos conspired or met any russian agent. There unsubtantiated rumors he was aware the Russians had dirt about Hilary.

The rumor was spread by alleged Russian spy named Joseph Mifsud . Mueller was asked why was this guy not charged for spreading fake collusion stories, his reponse i can't get into that! And reason for this he actually has ties with Western Intelligence confirmed during the hearings.

By the way the Fusion GPS and Clinton conspired in 2015 to undermine Trump, a year before an allegation against Papdopoulos was made. So the Trump collusion story happened long time before investigation started.

DreamsBurnDown

BonnieSituation wrote: »

He stated clearly on several occasions when asked that he wasn't willing to go into detail on who was questioned or where they were questioned to ensure ongoing investigations weren't hindered.

I don't get where your line of "logic" comes from.

My logic is quite simple to follow. Julian Assange had been attacking the US government for years (the Chelsea manning leaks) and was bitterly opposed to Clinton, who as secretary of state had called for his indictment. He clearly interfered in the US election. The release of the hacked DNC emails were designed and timed to do maximum damage to Hillary Clinton's chances in the election, Assange has said this himself in interviews.

Assange clearly knew the source of the emails and that they were hacked. He may know a lot more such as were any members of the Trump team involved in helping the hackers.

Why under those circumstances would he not be the first person to be indicted?

StringerBell

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

StringerBell wrote: »

Steele dossier has not been proven to be just unsubstantiated rumour about Trump nor was it the start of this investigation.

There really should be a standard of posting, were you not banned the last time for continually posting lies even when they were pointed out to be such time and time again?

Just engage in a good faith debate, you will feel better about it.

Love it. You guys claim this and ignore the hearing and statements by congress members.

Do you think Trump send in a team to hack the DNC?

Steele dossier is a how it all begun and where allegations were made Trump conspired wih Russia to win the election. You just read your own bias links and ignore how events unfolded.

I was not banned, it was off topic remark about another subject, i was told to leave the thread for few weeks. So get your facts straight.

So.....no change of tactic and embrace of good faith debate then, gotcha.

Take it easy dude, if you ever do change your mind though I'll gladly engage.

FreudianSlippers

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You not aware Mueller dismissed this allegation in the mueller report. They found no evidence Papdopoulos conspired or met any russian agent. There unsubtantiated rumors he was aware the Russians had dirt about Hilary.

So why did he plead guilty to lying to the FBI about contacts he had with Russian agents?

What's all the contrary evidence to what you're asserted contained in Volume 1, pages 81-93 of the Mueller Report?


That leads to three unfortunate assumptions about your posts here:
1) You're lying on purpose;
2) You're making things up for a motive only known to you;
3) You're clueless as to what is or isn't in the Mueller Report.

I say all three are unfortunate, as we're trying to have a factual conversation in this forum and it's clear that you are either not willing to or incapable of so doing.

Cheerful Spring2

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So why did he plead guilty to lying to the FBI about contacts he had with Russian agents?

What's all the contrary evidence to what you're asserted contained in Volume 1, pages 81-93 of the Mueller Report?


That leads to three unfortunate assumptions about your posts here:
1) You're lying on purpose;
2) You're making things up for a motive only known to you;
3) You're clueless as to what is or isn't in the Mueller Report.

I say all three are unfortunate, as we're trying to have a factual conversation in this forum and it's clear that you are either not willing to or incapable of so doing.

Nowhere in the report does Mueller allege Papadopoulos knew and set up a prior meeting with a Russian agent. There no evidence in the report he knew what Russia intentions where and how they go about disseminating hilary email info.

Mueller made a baseless allegation Joseph Mifsud was a Russian spy in his report. This narrative is falling apart as we watch events unfold and he actually now shown to be an asset of Western intelligence. In many ways the whole thing is looking like a stitch-up.

The claim made by Joseph Misfud is he told Papadolulos the russians had dirt on Hilary, no specific claim was made about DNC hacked emails. Only thing that seems to be accurate is Papadopoulos did meet with Joseph Misfud and for unknown reason he lied about this meeting when talking with the FBI.

Cheerful Spring2

StringerBell wrote: »

So.....no change of tactic and embrace of good faith debate then, gotcha.

Take it easy dude, if you ever do change your mind though I'll gladly engage.

I just highlighting information, is unfortunate its the republicans who are asking the hard questions. We actually hearing truth for once because they so hell bent on saving trump. There not covering up what actually happened and they will and are now exposing intelligence information right out in the open for everyone to hear. One republican let it out of bag Joseph Misfud is an asset of Western Intelligence and not a Russian spy. Information like this would be protected if this was not about helping Trump.

FatherTed

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Nowhere in the report does Mueller allege Papadopoulos knew and set up a prior meeting with a Russian agent. There no evidence in the report he knew what Russia intentions where and how they go about disseminating hilary email info.

Mueller made a baseless allegation Joseph Mifsud was a Russian spy in his report. This narrative is falling apart as we watch events unfold and he actually now shown to be an asset of Western intelligence. In many ways the whole thing is looking like a stitch-up.

The claim made by Joseph Misfud is he told Papadolulos the russians had dirt on Hilary, no specific claim was made about DNC hacked emails. Only thing that seems to be accurate is Papadopoulos did meet with Joseph Misfud and for unknown reason he lied about this meeting when talking with the FBI.

Actually...

During that meeting, Mifsud told Papadopoulos that he had met with high-level Russian government officials during his recent trip to Moscow. Mifsud also said that, on the trip, he learned that the Russians had obtained "dirt" on candidate Hillary Clinton. As Papadopoulos later stated to the FBI, Mifsud said that the "dirt" was in the form of " emails of Clinton," and that they "have thousands of emails."

On May 6, 2016, 10 days after that meeting with Mifsud, Papadopoulos suggested to a representative of a foreign government that the Trump Campaign had received indications from the Russian government that it could assist the Campaign through the anonymous release of information that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton

Cheerful Spring2

FatherTed wrote: »

Actually...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/heres-why-mueller-kept-getting-asked-about-a-mysterious-maltese-professor/ar-AAEOdqh

Mifsud lied to the FBI and he was not charged. Mueller was grilled about this and you can watch the exchange between Jim Jordan and Mueller in link provided.

Barr and Justice Department investigation will release more information hopefully soon.

TomOnBoard

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/heres-why-mueller-kept-getting-asked-about-a-mysterious-maltese-professor/ar-AAEOdqh

Mifsud lied to the FBI and he was not charged. Mueller was grilled about this and you can watch the exchange between Jim Jordan and Mueller in link provided.

Barr and Justice Department investigation will release more information hopefully soon.

In the meantime, the best available evidence says that the FBI investigation into Trump campaign ties to Russia, known as 'Crossfire Hurricane' was started on 31st July, 2016. It began after an Australian diplomat (Downer) reported to US authorities, expressing concern that during a May 2016 drinking session, Papadopulous' told Downer that the Russians had got access to Clinton emails.

That's why an investigation began as a Counter-intelligence one, designed to investigate how the Trump campaign knew that the Russians had hacked the DNC. At that time, the so-called Steele dossier was not being investigated by the FBI, so it cannot be used now as having been the origin of Operation Crossfire Hurricane.

Cheerful Spring2

TomOnBoard wrote: »

In the meantime, the best available evidence says that the FBI investigation into Trump campaign ties to Russia, known as 'Crossfire Hurricane' was started on 31st July, 2016. It began after an Australian diplomat (Downer) reported to US authorities, expressing concern that during a May 2016 drinking session, Papadopulous' told Downer that the Russians had got access to Clinton emails.

That's why an investigation began as a Counter-intelligence one, designed to investigate how the Trump campaign knew that the Russians had hacked the DNC. At that time, the so-called Steele dossier was not being investigated by the FBI, so it cannot be used now as having been the origin of Operation Crossfire Hurricane.

The only source for the clinton email part is Papadopulous.

"Mifsud denies the email conversation occurred when he was interviewed by the FBI in 2017. The republicans asked Mueller for a response. Your report says Mifsud lied to the FBI about this, how is it then, you never charged him with a crime? Meuller refused to answer this, said he will not discuss internal deliberations.

The Mueller Report claims Mifsud was a Russia agent and provided no evidence in their report whatsoever and the big allegation was Mifsud told Papadopulous, “my connections have dirt about hilary. Now we hearing his not a Russian connected spy at all, and Mifsud is now a suspected western intelligence asset? I personally can’t ignore this new information and not view the russian probe suspiciously. I see deception. Mueller team can’t be allowed to get away with false pretences and excuses be made. It down to Mueller and his team to show undeniable evidence Mifsud is a Russian agent.

The Papadopulous and Misdud alleged meeting took place in Apri 2016, and the major breakin at the DNC occurred in June 2016. So the timelines don’t match up, least there. Downer allegations are even more suspicious. Remember Misfud denies this conversation even happened. Papadopulous word vs Mifsud word. Mueller has never publically stated on the record Mifsud denials was false or charged him with a crime.

Clinton foundation emails and state department emails were leaked when hilary private server was hacked so I not even sure you can state, the Russians were trying to pass on DNC emails here, even if this conversation is real. I open a genuine Russian hack may have taken place when hilary private server was exposed. I have said before i don’t believe the Russians hacked the DNC server in June 2016, but that's my view.

You can't ignore the steele dossier was circulated around the same time in 2016 and 2017 and allegation was made Trump was asset of Russian intelligence. Democrats wanted the steele dossier allegations to be investigated and Mueller was their man to do the job.

TomOnBoard

Once again, the FBI began Operation Crossfire Hurricane, only after claims by George Papadopoulos to Downer that Clinton emails were available from the Russians.

Can we stipulate to that fact please, before we can have any other discussions around the content of the Steele dossier and/or the integrity or otherwise of the source(s) of the information that led to Papadopolus's claim. Facts are important, and no matter how often the Steele dossier is claimed to have led to Crossfire Hurricane, it's simply not true. The FBI investigation 's actual origin is Papadopolus's claim, and no amount of muddying the waters changes that.

If we can all agree the facts here, the sooner we can get on to further discussion on Steele, Mifsud, etc. because we will all understand where the various elements fit in the overall picture.