Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

aloyisious

It seems the Dems are taking their interest in what Mueller knows a stage further. CNN has reported that Nadler & Co have filed suit to obtain redacted info that Mueller has knowledge of that has apparently not been disclosed to congress.

I'm wording my second sentence carefully with respect to anything Mueller may or may not know as this seems to be a breaking story which may change as further facts emerge.

IMO, If it's true that suit has gone from Nadler & Co [to Mueller] for "secret" information, I can see Barr writing an advice letter to Mueller and trying to get a court injunction to block any passing of "secret" info to Nadler, even if its by way of a congress subpoena. Apparently the suit is necessary for the Dems to assist them on deciding on whether a push to indict Trump.

Overheal

The whole situation is ****ed anyway.

The Dems could easily pass an impeachment resolution, but that’s not the point: correct me if I’m wrong, but the Senate does the hearings and the investigating, so they’d be the one to subpoena redacted information and people who up to now have refused house subpoenas under Trumps orders.

Russia interfered, this we have little doubt on. But they did so to the favor of Republicans, and Republicans see no reason to, for example, impeach their own president, or to even spend money on election security. They know they can literally do nothing, go campaign with their absurd war chests of dark money (ie. Russian oligarch funds, etc) meanwhile the Dems are in primary hell at least for another 9 months from now and possibly longer. Then 2020 rolls around, election interference will be evident (a g a i n) they’ll have won and then get to pretend to do something about security - or you know, not, because voter suppression demonstrably favors Republican victories.

Dems won’t impeach, Republicans won’t budge, and now more than ever too many Americans are wrapped up in disinformation wars and shout “fake news” at uncomfortable facts.

“What you’re seeing and hearing is not what is happening.” - Donald Trump

TomOnBoard

aloyisious wrote: »

It seems the Dems are taking their interest in what Mueller knows a stage further. CNN has reported that Nadler & Co have filed suit to obtain redacted info that Mueller has knowledge of that has apparently not been disclosed to congress.

I'm wording my second sentence carefully with respect to anything Mueller may or may not know as this seems to be a breaking story which may change as further facts emerge.

IMO, If it's true that suit has gone from Nadler & Co [to Mueller] for "secret" information, I can see Barr writing an advice letter to Mueller and trying to get a court injunction to block any passing of "secret" info to Nadler, even if its by way of a congress subpoena. Apparently the suit is necessary for the Dems to assist them on deciding on whether a push to indict Trump.

It's being reported overnight that Nadler's House Judiciary Committee are going after the evidence presented to the secret Grand Jury as part of the Mueller investigation. In Court filings, this is being framed as the start of an investigation into whether to file Articles of Impeachment. So, this is actually the launch of Impeachment proceedings.

Four of the Committee members have filed an article in The Atlantic describing the development as the Committee exercising its powers under Article I of the Constitution. Within that article they say:

"Despite assertions to the contrary by the president and his allies, the special counsel’s report and testimony are not the end of our investigations. We have now filed a petition in court to obtain the grand-jury documents referenced in the special counsel’s report. In that filing, we have made clear that we will utilize our Article I powers to obtain the additional underlying evidence, as well as enforce subpoenas for key witness testimony, and broaden our investigations to include conflicts of interest and financial misconduct."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/why-were-moving-forward-impeachment/594931/

brendanwalsh

It's scary how people can look at the exactsame media and interpret it to fit their own narrative.

The reality is very few people on this thread have read the mueller document. I would guess a handful or less even live in the United States.

The mueller report very clearly stated there was no collusion with Russia
. It was a Democrat hoax. I don't believe mueller even wrote the report. He is just a senile old man they used as the face of the hoax. The goal has never been to snare trump. They don't have any evidence to indict not to mind a conviction. It's been to misdirect the public and disrupt his presidency.
Unfortunately they have spent so much time on him, they have little chance at beating him next time out. Nobody is going to vote for poor confused Joe who likes to kiss little girls on the lips. There will be no impeachment proceedings. This is more pandering to the left to keep them ticking over until 2020.

The squad have also been a disaster
Very clear evidence omar married her brother and is now divorcing her second husband for the third time.

3 years in and still ...
No collusion. No obstruction.

StringerBell

Thanks for dropping by Mr Trump. Always nice to wake up to a nonsensical press release.

Cody montana

brendanwalsh wrote: »

It's scary how people can look at the exactsame media and interpret it to fit their own narrative.

The reality is very few people on this thread have read the mueller document. I would guess a handful or less even live in the United States.

The mueller report very clearly stated there was no collusion with Russia
. It was a Democrat hoax. I don't believe mueller even wrote the report. He is just a senile old man they used as the face of the hoax. The goal has never been to snare trump. They don't have any evidence to indict not to mind a conviction. It's been to misdirect the public and disrupt his presidency.
Unfortunately they have spent so much time on him, they have little chance at beating him next time out. Nobody is going to vote for poor confused Joe who likes to kiss little girls on the lips. There will be no impeachment proceedings. This is more pandering to the left to keep them ticking over until 2020.

The squad have also been a disaster
Very clear evidence omar married her brother and is now divorcing her second husband for the third time.

3 years in and still ...
No collusion. No obstruction.

10 cases of obstruction.
You’re welcome.

BonnieSituation

DreamsBurnDown wrote: »

My logic is quite simple to follow. Julian Assange had been attacking the US government for years (the Chelsea manning leaks) and was bitterly opposed to Clinton, who as secretary of state had called for his indictment. He clearly interfered in the US election. The release of the hacked DNC emails were designed and timed to do maximum damage to Hillary Clinton's chances in the election, Assange has said this himself in interviews.

Assange clearly knew the source of the emails and that they were hacked. He may know a lot more such as were any members of the Trump team involved in helping the hackers.

Why under those circumstances would he not be the first person to be indicted?

I'll try again. If Assange was interviewed. We would not know. It would not be released as it's part of an ongoing investigation. Mueller intimated as much that people overseas were interviewed as part of the process.

Just because you, person on internet, doesn't have it confirmed to you, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

And quite frankly, it would shock me that the nature of Assange's sudden revocation of asylum didn't revolve around something involving these investigations.

amandstu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx9yZCWyHSI 1 min 32sec
In this Trump clip,he brings up "England" when designating the UK.Is this dog whistling English Nationalism?

Is he trying to work the different parts of the UK against each other?

Stop moaning ffs

amandstu wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx9yZCWyHSI 1 min 32sec
In this Trump clip,he brings up "England" when designating the UK.Is this dog whistling English Nationalism?

Is he trying to work the different parts of the UK against each other?

This coming after he spoke to Johnson on the phone too.

Very very bizarre from trump.

Oh hang on

duploelabs

Impeachment investigation launched

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-house-democrats-are-choosing-now-to-launch-impeachment-investigation?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

BonnieSituation

Epstein docs to be "unsealed" today. Anyone know what the process is surrounding this? Timelines etc.

aloyisious

I got to wondering [not] if the Summer recess of Congress and the late Friday media release on the move was to steal the thunder from Don, it's such a regularly-used trick to prevent a court blocking move. It's probably sunk the newsworthiness of the USSC ruling on the use of DOD funds for the 100 mile wall build.

StringerBell

duploelabs wrote: »

Impeachment investigation launched

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-house-democrats-are-choosing-now-to-launch-impeachment-investigation?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

And not a second too early, it won't result in impeachment and removal of course but the impeachment power of investigation has been needed for some time.

Get access to everything, see exactly what's gone on and what Trump is so desperate to hide and obstruct. Then run on it for 2020.

The Republicans will rail, naturally and the Democrats dragging their feet has left them open to that, but **** the politics. Just get the information and get it out to the public. The next general election is such an important one for the world never mind the US

Cheerful Spring2

duploelabs wrote: »

Impeachment investigation launched

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-house-democrats-are-choosing-now-to-launch-impeachment-investigation?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

Democrats are wasting their time. The senate will kill any impeachment process anyhow. This circus should end now. Only half of the members on the democrat side support impeachment. If democrats keep putting the country through this they lose bad in the next election. Despite what the Democrats claim the country is doing well economically, and the average voter is getting sick to death of this side show.

Stop moaning ffs

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Democrats are wasting their time. The senate will kill any impeachment process anyhow. This circus should end now. Only half of the members on the democrat side support impeachment. If democrats keep putting the country through this they lose bad in the next election. Despite what the Democrats claim the country is doing well economically, and the average voter is getting sick to death of this side show.

So why has McConnell blocked two bills to stop outside interference of further elections and also taken a massive investment from a Russian oligarch for his company?

Any ideas? I’ll wait.

Sonics2k

amandstu wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx9yZCWyHSI 1 min 32sec
In this Trump clip,he brings up "England" when designating the UK.Is this dog whistling English Nationalism?

Is he trying to work the different parts of the UK against each other?

I wouldn't say it's English Nationalism, rather Trump's general ignorance of anything directly outside his own personal bubble.

Cheerful Spring2

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Once again, the FBI began Operation Crossfire Hurricane, only after claims by George Papadopoulos to Downer that Clinton emails were available from the Russians.

Can we stipulate to that fact please, before we can have any other discussions around the content of the Steele dossier and/or the integrity or otherwise of the source(s) of the information that led to Papadopolus's claim. Facts are important, and no matter how often the Steele dossier is claimed to have led to Crossfire Hurricane, it's simply not true. The FBI investigation 's actual origin is Papadopolus's claim, and no amount of muddying the waters changes that.

If we can all agree the facts here, the sooner we can get on to further discussion on Steele, Mifsud, etc. because we will all understand where the various elements fit in the overall picture.

Mueller investigaton started in 2017 and ended in 2019. Republicans claim this when the Russian investigation actually began. They often state the Steele dossier was the catalyst.

You referring to a secret internal probe by the FBI in 2016. I agree with you offically this probe was started because of Papadopolus.

In my mind the entire probe started in 2015 and 2016. When hilary campaign team hired Fusion GPS to dig up dirty about Trump. Fusion GPS send Steele to Russia and other countries and steele paid foreign nationals money for info. Information in the dossier is mostly conspiratorial and it claimed Trump was an active measures agent for the Russian government.

Cheerful Spring2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So why has McConnell blocked two bills to stop outside interference of further elections and also taken a massive investment from a Russian oligarch for his company?

Any ideas? I’ll wait.

I not disputing Russia may have tried to influence the election and preferred Trump. Its another matter to claim Trump and Putin worked out this grand scheme tp achieve this in secret. To claim Trump is under the control of the GRU and Putin, you need evidence and have not seen anything. Democrats claimed Mueller would get to the bottom of this and when he released his report they were not happy. Mueller team found no evidence of collusion or conspiracy by Trump or his team.

Russian influence is overblown though by official media and US intelligence. Democrats are trying to make out Russia is the reason hilary lost the election and are ignoring the faults she had. She was not well liked and she was just another establishment figurehead. Trump experienced far more scandals during the US Presidential election, and he still beat her. In my opinion Trump just appealed more to voters as an outsider and believed he would drain the swamp.

Stop moaning ffs

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I not disputing Russia may have tried to influence the election and preferred Trump. Its another matter to claim Trump and Putin worked out this grand scheme tp achieve this in secret. To claim Trump is under the control of the GRU and Putin, you need evidence and have not seen anything. Democrats claimed Mueller would get to the bottom of this and when he released his report they were not happy. Mueller team found no evidence of collusion or conspiracy by Trump or his team.

Russian influence is overblown though by official media and US intelligence. Democrats are trying to make out Russia is the reason hilary lost the election and are ignoring the faults she had. She was not well liked and she was just another establishment figurehead. Trump experienced far more scandals during the US Presidenta election, and he still beat her. In my opinion Trump just appealed more to voters as an outsider that would supoosedly or they thought drain the swamp.

Trump after the release of the report and thinking himself in the clear said maybe I did take assurance from the Russians and if so it again if I had to. MAGA!!

So he pretty much admitted he did it and would happily do it again.
And I’m not sure he even deleted the tweets
Thoughts?

rossie1977

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Democrats are wasting their time. The senate will kill any impeachment process anyhow. This circus should end now. Only half of the members on the democrat side support impeachment. If democrats keep putting the country through this they lose bad in the next election. Despite what the Democrats claim the country is doing well economically, and the average voter is getting sick to death of this side show.

Recent morning consult poll shows a big fall in voter confidence (both Dem and Rep voters) as to the fairness of the Mueller report

37 percent of voters said that they believed Mueller’s investigation had been carried out very or somewhat fairly, compared with 42 percent who said the probe was conducted “not too fairly” or “not fairly at all.”

The country is doing around the same economically as it was in 2015-16 when Hillary Clinton was grilled intensely by congress over her emails and Benghazi. In that situation public sympathy didn't go the way of Clinton, the opposite in fact despite being cleared of any wrong-doing. Long term democrat voters like my Aunt viewed her with suspicion after.

PropJoe10

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I not disputing Russia may have tried to influence the election and preferred Trump. Its another matter to claim Trump and Putin worked out this grand scheme tp achieve this in secret. To claim Trump is under the control of the GRU and Putin, you need evidence and have not seen anything. Democrats claimed Mueller would get to the bottom of this and when he released his report they were not happy. Mueller team found no evidence of collusion or conspiracy by Trump or his team.

Russian influence is overblown though by official media and US intelligence. Democrats are trying to make out Russia is the reason hilary lost the election and are ignoring the faults she had. She was not well liked and she was just another establishment figurehead. Trump experienced far more scandals during the US Presidential election, and he still beat her. In my opinion Trump just appealed more to voters as an outsider and believed he would drain the swamp.

What are you basing this statement on, out of interest?

Stop moaning ffs

Trump is still under investigation by his own intelligence agencies to determine if he’s a foreign asset acting against American interests which he clearly is.

Let’s not forget that

duploelabs

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Mueller investigaton started in 2017 and ended in 2019. Republicans claim this when the Russian investigation actually began. They often state the Steele dossier was the catalyst.

You referring to a secret internal probe by the FBI in 2016. I agree with you offically this probe was started because of Papadopolus.

In my mind the entire probe started in 2015 and 2016. When hilary campaign team hired Fusion GPS to dig up dirty about Trump. Fusion GPS send Steele to Russia and other countries and steele paid foreign nationals money for info. Information in the dossier is mostly conspiratorial and it claimed Trump was an active measures agent for the Russian government.

'in my mind'


Stop and think about that statement, how do you join the dots there? Use credible sources rather than conjecture

Cheerful Spring2

PropJoe10 wrote: »

What are you basing this statement on, out of interest?

Almost the entire media is suffering from mad psychosis. The best evidence they have Trump was recruited by Russia is a pee tape allegation. I tell you right now if this was a weird sexual fantasy he enjoyed, more women would have came forward and made similar allegations.

The GRU somehow figured out Trump would run for President in 2013 '( they had read Trump mind) and they went ahead bugged his hotel room and recorded him, gotcha. You have to be really dumb on another level to believe this story.

During the Mccarthy era and many people seem to have forgotten this scandal, unfounded accusations were made and many people suffered were unjustly accused and declared communists. The Russiasgate story is not all that different, if you voiced a different opinion, you were called a Russian bot and I was often be called this on forums.

"People for there own reason seem overly confident the CIA and NSA would not lie about Russian meddling and interference. Official news for two years now said, just wait Mueller will take down Trump and he will prove collusion and we be right all this time. They ran breaking news stories every night intelligence sources said this and that and they had intelligence Trump and Putin conspired to win the election. End turned out to just fake news

Today Mueller findings are now in doubt Misfud is now believed to be not Russian agent and he was in fact an western intelligence asset. If Mueller intelligence sources are passing him fake info why would you believe much of other evidence in the report?

I have my own reasons to doubt the US intelligence narrative the GRU hacked the DNC in June 2016 and I posting new info on conspiracy forums about it. Just going to say someone connected with the Seth Rich case has filed a defamation suit against the media and may end up in court.

Stop moaning ffs

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Almost the entire media is suffering from mad psychosis. The best evidence they have Trump was recruited by Russia is a pee tape allegation. I tell you right now if this was a weird sexual fantasy he enjoyed, more women would have came forward and made similar allegations.

The GRU somehow figured out Trump would run for President in 2013 '( they had read Trump mind) and they went ahead bugged his hotel room and recorded him, gotcha. You have to be really dumb on another level to believe this story.

During the Mccarthy era and many people seem to have forgotten this scandal, unfounded accusations were made and many people suffered were unjustly accused and declared communists. The Russiasgate story is not all that different, if you voiced a different opinion, you were called a Russian bot and I was often be called this on forums.

"People for there own reason seem overly confident the CIA and NSA would not lie about Russian meddling and interference. Official news for two years now said, just wait Mueller will take down Trump and he will prove collusion and we be right all this time. They ran breaking news stories every night intelligence sources said this and that and they had intelligence Trump and Putin conspired to win the election. End turned out to just fake news

Today Mueller findings are now in doubt Misfud is now believed to not Russian agent and he was in fact an western intelligence asset. If Mueller intelligence sources are passing him fake info why would you believe much of other evidence in the report?

I have my own reasons to doubt the US intelligence narrative the GRU hacked the DNC in June 2016 and I posting new info on conspiracy forums about it. Just going to say someone connected with the Seth Rich case has filed a defamation suit against the media and may end up in court.

You have your own reasons and you’re posting on conspiracy forums about it.


Ok so

Cheerful Spring2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You have your own reasons and you’re posting on conspiracy forums about it.


Ok so

For now. A case is now filed with the court in Texas, so may be ok to speak about it here?. Media claim the seth rich hacking story is just a conspiracy,. They are wrong. Assange spoke to a journalist and claimed Seth and his brother hacked the DNC and gave Assange the files. He told her to tell Seth mother the truth. This is believeable because Assange pretty much confirmed during an interview Seth was his source for the leak not russian intelligence. It does mean Russian never tried, but the leak in June 2016 Assange claiming it was internal leak.

Court files are here http://lawflog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/2019.07.15-Amended-complaint-stamped.pdf

26000 Elephants

A common tactic among Trump supporters seems to be building elaborate conspiracy theories around minor, irrelevant players in the investigation. Rather than concentrating on the results of the inquiry (the many indictments/convictions of Trump associates) and the fact that Trump himself would have been indicted save for a convention that prevents it, we are led on a merry dance of 'disappeared' professors and elaborate plots.

If you are pulled over by the cops for having a broken taillight, and the cop charges you with DUI because you literally fell out of the car inebriated, you cannot defend yourself in court by claiming the cop should have only charged you with the broken light.

Yet this is the defence sought by Trump's supporters. It doesn't matter if the steele dossier precipitated the investigation (it didnt) and it is entirely relevant that we deal with the overall lawlessness within the Trump milleu exposed by it.

DreamsBurnDown

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'll try again. If Assange was interviewed. We would not know. It would not be released as it's part of an ongoing investigation. Mueller intimated as much that people overseas were interviewed as part of the process.

If Assange had been interviewed and provided useful information, it would be in Mueller's report. There are no ongoing investigations into Russian interference and Trump team involvement in Russian interference, that investigation is complete. Ongoing investigations are on other matters, such as campaign finance violations.

The question is why wasn't Assange indicted by Mueller, and indicted very early on in the investigation. The main crime committed was Russian interference in the US election, and Assange was the main individual who perpetrated this. Yes the Russians hacked the DNC servers but the interference in the election was the public release of emails. Assange by his own admission hated Clinton and didn't want to see her elected, the timed releases of emails in the summer of 2016 was designed to do maximum damage to her. From the available evidence Assange clearly committed the crime of working with Russia to try and influence the 2016 US election.

It's just a bit odd that the major player who was responsible for the interference wasn't indicted. It raises the question for me at least how good a job Mueller did.
Assange may well have been willing to testify in exchange for a deal, as others did in the investigation. In fact the evidence suggests that as his lawyers reached out to the US government looking for a deal in 2017. If anyone knows whether Trump team members were involved with Wikileaks in the timing of the DNC emails, then that's Assange.

Assange has now been indicted by the US government, but not for interference in the 2016 election, for the 2010 hacking case involving Chelsea Manning. Which again begs the question, if the US wanted to hold him accountable why wasn't he indicted in 2017 for interference in the 2016 election.

Quin_Dub

The Seth Rich conversation ends now

Not a suitable topic for this thread at all.

hill16bhoy

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You don't want to read oppoosition postings lets be honest. Fine if this thread is all about that ok i back out. There happy now!

I'm more than happy to read posts from people who have different views to myself - otherwise I wouldn't read any forum.

I draw the line at stuff which is arrant nonsense designed not to debate, but to derail debate.

These days you'd trawl long and hard anywhere on the internet to find a post by a Trump supporter or a Russia fetishist which isn't exactly that.