Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

hotmail.com

pixelburp wrote:

Ah, fair enough, my mistake. Equally bizarre are presumed Irish cheering on Trump for "liberal tears", truly the most baffling reason for political support. But I also stand by what I said: we have this reduction of US politics to what amounts to sports team fanaticism, where opposition to a demonstrable ... controversial & brazenly ignorant president is met with asisine insults of "leftism", which some Irish folk have adopted this American cultural pejorative as a catchall insult for "people I don't agree with".

Support and non support for Trump from Irish people is bizarre in general I think.

Support suggests that you have a vote or vested interest.

When did Irish people become fanatical nuts about US politics?

everlast75

hotmail.com wrote: »

Support and non support for Trump from Irish people is bizarre in general I think.

Support suggests that you have a vote or vested interest.

When did Irish people become fanatical nuts about US politics?

"Stay in your lane" is now the best argument against irish people that have a problem with Trump?

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

pixelburp wrote:

Ah, fair enough, my mistake. Equally bizarre are presumed Irish cheering on Trump for "liberal tears", truly the most baffling reason for political support. But I also stand by what I said: we have this reduction of US politics to what amounts to sports team fanaticism, where opposition to a demonstrable ... controversial & brazenly ignorant president is met with asisine insults of "leftism", which some Irish folk have adopted this American cultural pejorative as a catchall insult for "people I don't agree with".

Support and non support for Trump from Irish people is bizarre in general I think.

Support suggests that you have a vote or vested interest.

When did Irish people become fanatical nuts about US politics?

I never paid a much attention to us politics until trump became president. Its been such a **** show since its almost impossible not to pay any attention to it. I honestly hope our politics never go down the road the us has gone. But looking at boards over the last few months it seems inevitable.

Outlaw Pete

hill16bhoy wrote: »

The Republican party is pretty much the party of white supremacy and naked kleptocracy now. Those Republicans with any sort of real principles, like Amash and Evan McMullin, have left it. Those who are not white supremacists who remain in the party in Congress, like Romney, have provided no real opposition to Trump and have gone down the road of appeasement.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

If they are pretty much the party of white supremacy, then why did republican leaders strip Steve King of his House committee seats after he was deemed to to have Tweeted racist remarks?

Would love to see a list of GOP members you feel are white supremacists. In name or deed, either or.

pixelburp

hotmail.com wrote: »

Support and non support for Trump from Irish people is bizarre in general I think.

Support suggests that you have a vote or vested interest.

When did Irish people become fanatical nuts about US politics?

It's a fascinating time though, one that'll shape historical texts for years. As I said, this is where politics in the country has been headed, between the increasing partisanship and decreasing journalistic decency. Trump is the symptom, not the disease. His presence is a grand, grotesque grenade in US politics and no more than rubbernecking a burning house, it's hard not to stop, stare and wonder. I deride politics as sports fandom, but Trump is more politics as a great melodrama, an opera. Large egos, personalities and vulgarity.

And why wouldn't Irish be fascinated with the tribulations of a country that has itself a deep cultural and political tether with our own? It's hardly a surprise that many might take an interest to begin with. The Irish-American generic link is as strong as that with our other neighbour, itself currently roiling in a grand folly of its own (one that might more directly damage us).

kowloon

Deleted User wrote: »

I never paid a much attention to us politics until trump became president. Its been such a **** show since its almost impossible not to pay any attention to it. I honestly hope our politics never go down the road the us has gone. But looking at boards over the last few months it seems inevitable.

I was away from this forum, AH and many of the others for a long stretch and I don't use Facebook, the change in the nature of posts has been a bit of a shock.

As for the Left-Right dichotomy, I don't think it really does much for politics. It does seem to be great at turning everything into a two-team sport and driving people to extreme positions to stick it to the 'other side'.

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

Support and non support for Trump from Irish people is bizarre in general I think.

Support suggests that you have a vote or vested interest.

When did Irish people become fanatical nuts about US politics?

The USA sneezes and the world catches a cold. Like it or not, what happens there affects the world as a whole, and with that lunatic at the wheel, it pays to keep abreast of events.

You also get in a week of the trump presidency what you'd normally get in a term of a normal president, so it's ironically like a reality show the way it plays out

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Would love to see a list of GOP members you feel are white supremacists. In name or deed, either or.

The President?

listermint

mad muffin wrote: »

I think what you fail to understand is. It’s not what they are calling themselves. It’s what we are now calling them after the debates. They aren’t libs. Nor dems. But leftists. And they hate it. Lol.

Thanks for proving my point.

Excellent.

Keep up the good work. What your doing makes it easy for people interested in politics to sort out the chaff from the wheat.

Billy Mays

$25bn to build, plus $bns to maintain a wall

Worth it just to own the libs

The clapping seal mentality of the Trump supporter summed up

MrFresh

mad muffin wrote: »

So in good news hour. I see trumps conservative judicial appointments are barring fruit.

The Supreme Court has un blocked the 9th circuit courts injunction, and released the 2.5 Billion from the pentagon. To go towards the boarder wall.

Of course the dems are calling it Trumps vanity project.

Hi h just forgot to add. He has 10 more judges on the way.

That's that executive power grab the Republicans feared would happen under Obama. They'll no doubt be up in arms about this decision. Although it's good news for the next Dem president that they can declare Health and Climate Change a national emergency and spend whatever they want on it.

26000 Elephants

kowloon wrote: »

As for the Left-Right dichotomy, I don't think it really does much for politcs .

I always see it as an indication of the complexity of one's thinking in politics. People who can only parse things as binary concepts rarely make for interesting discussions. Politics reflects the whole range of human thought, experience and belief. It's an insult to boil it down to left/right simplicity, but for many it's all they can do.

Politicians will gladly dumb down the message in order to chime with a larger cohort of possible voters.

hill16bhoy

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

What a ridiculous thing to say.

If they are pretty much the party of white supremacy, then why did republican leaders strip Steve King of his House committee seats after he was deemed to to have Tweeted racist remarks?

Would love to see a list of GOP members you feel are white supremacists. In name or deed, either or.

Because it was a totally empty token gesture after they'd been getting bad press. I suppose even the Republicans have to try and play to optics very occasionally, althugh even these type of very occasional emoty token gestures seem to have gone.

Why didn't they expel him from the party? Because they don't actually give a ****, that's why.

In terms of the wider party, all of them are happy to support a nakedly white supremacist regime.

If the entirety of the party supports a nakedly white supremacist regime, which it absolutely does, I think it's more than fair to call that party the party of white supremacism.

Have a wee think about where that leaves yourself.

hill16bhoy

pixelburp wrote: »

It's a fascinating time though, one that'll shape historical texts for years. As I said, this is where politics in the country has been headed, between the increasing partisanship and decreasing journalistic decency. Trump is the symptom, not the disease. His presence is a grand, grotesque grenade in US politics and no more than rubbernecking a burning house, it's hard not to stop, stare and wonder. I deride politics as sports fandom, but Trump is more politics as a great melodrama, an opera. Large egos, personalities and vulgarity.

And why wouldn't Irish be fascinated with the tribulations of a country that has itself a deep cultural and political tether with our own? It's hardly a surprise that many might take an interest to begin with. The Irish-American generic link is as strong as that with our other neighbour, itself currently roiling in a grand folly of its own (one that might more directly damage us).

Only one side is engaging in sports fandom.

Facts only matter to one side.

The sad thing is, there really are only two sides now, well only two sides that matter.

You're either for Trump, a stance that either forces you to totally disregard reality or openly cheerlead fascism and kleptocracy, or you're a person that places store on facts and decent human values, in which case you're agin him.

You're either a cultist or a non-cultist.

That's what the malignant cancer of Trump has genuinely reduced political debate to.

So has Brexit, in exactly the same way.

So have all the other crazies like Bolsonaro, Duterte, Modi, Le Pen, Salvini and Orban.

And there was also an Austrian chap who did similar back in the day.

hill16bhoy

Mehdi Hasan is totally right here.

Democrats' responses to Trump's constant racist rants are always far too meek.

Yet nobody has ever found a way to effectively combat ascendant fascism in the short term. Once it's out of the bottle, it's out. It's a malignant cancer.

In the long term, it has only ever been beaten by armed stuggle, all out war, or by decades long endurance followed by the rotten, decrepit system collapsing in on itself.


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1155257264804192256

everlast75

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1155240345585750016?s=19

Collusion isn't a crime.

There was obstruction.

Mueller confirmed he was not exonerated.

Mueller is a Republican.

TomOnBoard

everlast75 wrote: »

"Stay in your lane" is now the best argument against irish people that have a problem with Trump?

Kinda like "Shut Up and Dribble"...

It a mentality that is exemplified by the naked vitriol spewed by Laura Ingraham and the like.... A polarized and polarizing attempt to control all narratives and to shut down truth, fact and honest debate... "Let them have their opinions.... So long as those opinions conform to our narrative".

Irish people have a great love for the USA. Many of their sons and daughters went there. It's embedded in our culture and our psyche. Why wouldn't we be saddened and angry at how such a great nation has been brought so low?

walshb

Trump’s language is really disgusting.

Can you imagine any politician here saying something remotely similar about any part of this island? They’d be absolutely lambasted, and they’d be gone..

The office of the President really is at an all time low since he’s been there..

TomOnBoard

walshb wrote: »

Trump’s language is really disgusting.

Can you imagine any politician here saying something remotely similar about any part of this island? They’d be absolutely lambasted, and they’d be gone..

The office if the President really is at an all time low since he’s been there..

Its not just him alone though. The way he speaks and characterises everyone he dislikes in infantile smears and nicknames sets such a much lower tone that permeates through his followers and debases conversation and polarises people at all levels. Its like a cancer on decency...

Leroy42

So does this attack on Cummins and Baltimore mean that Trump now agrees with AOC and the squad that parts of the US are sh1tholes?

Or is this another example where Trump is the reason why anything good happens anywhere but he is powerless to do anything if things are bad?

relax carry on

Leroy42 wrote: »

So does this attack on Cummins and Baltimore mean that Trump now agrees with AOC and the squad that parts of the US are sh1tholes?

Or is this another example where Trump is the reason why anything good happens anywhere but he is powerless to do anything if things are bad?

It's just Trump being Trump. Maybe it's just his multiple inadequacies and insecurities disguised by his bullying and racism or maybe he's actually trying to be clever (Trump's version of clever) by stirring up his base with his bullying and racism. Who knows at this stage. This Presidency is a mess.

Leroy42

Ot is just the hypocrisy of his position, and of course his supporters.

AOC and the others should feck off for dissing anything to do with the US but Trump is perfectly fine to do exactly the same.

duploelabs

Leroy42 wrote: »

So does this attack on Cummins and Baltimore mean that Trump now agrees with AOC and the squad that parts of the US are sh1tholes?

Or is this another example where Trump is the reason why anything good happens anywhere but he is powerless to do anything if things are bad?

I'm just waiting for some of his apologists to return here to post that he didn't really mean that or the economy is doing great (it really isn't at all)

rossie1977

Leroy42 wrote: »

Ot is just the hypocrisy of his position, and of course his supporters.

AOC and the others should feck off for dissing anything to do with the US but Trump is perfectly fine to do exactly the same.

Funny thing we were told for years by Republicans that Democrats attacking Trump was a terrible strategy and why they lost in 16..should have stuck to policies.

Trump's now avoiding policies completely and attacking Democrats by name and its apparently a great strategy that will see him walk 2020 according to his supporters

hill16bhoy

rossie1977 wrote: »

Funny thing we were told for years by Republicans that Democrats attacking Trump was a terrible strategy and why they lost in 16..should have stuck to policies.

Trump's now avoiding policies completely and attacking Democrats by name and its apparently a great strategy that will see him walk 2020 according to his supporters

Literally anything can reinforce a fascist victim complex.

Nothing has to make sense.

If none of it makes sense, so much the better for the fascists, actually - because it dismisses objective reality, which is the aim.

People need to focus on and understand the framework through which fascism works, because if they don't, they don't understand what's actually going on here.

Midlife

mad muffin wrote: »

I’m very well aware that the democrats are right wing and not left.

The dems are the party for slavery. KKK. And the Jim Crow laws. But after the Democratic debates they have shifted to the left.

So the democrats are

1: pro slavery
2: pro KKK
3: right wing but also somehow shifted to the left

Does that last one mean they're now left wing or less right wing?

26000 Elephants

If none of it makes sense, so much the better for the fascists, actually - because it dismisses objective reality, which is the aim.

The strange thing is, even if you accept that the use of the word fascist is a bit strong, when you substitute with the word 'republican' it sounds equally plausible and dark.

26000 Elephants

The President ‘s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests.

– Mueller report, vol II, page 158

No obstruction, eh? Trump is a bare faced liar.

hill16bhoy

26000 Elephants wrote: »

The strange thing is, even if you accept that the use of the word fascist is a bit strong, when you substitute with the word 'republican' it sounds equally plausible and dark.

I certainly don't accept that the use of the word fascist is "a bit strong".

Fascism mostly exists within democracies or at least what are nominally called democracies. Orban and Putin are fascists who exist within nominal "democracies" which they have completely neutered so they can never lose.

The Republican party tries to neuter US democracy for the same reason, hence gerrymandering, voter suppression, welcoming Russian attempts to hack the election etc.

Fascism elevates a handpicked or self-selecting elite corporate class in which the leader is the key player. This elite corporate class acts as an oligarchy which controls wealth to an obscene degree. How can anybody say Trump is not openly doing this, like Putin has?

What Trump and the Republican media do could barely be a better example of classic fascist propaganda techniques.

Like, what is the difference between Trump and Republican media in the US, and Gemma O'Doherty? I can't see any - they operate in exactly the same way, just at different levels.

I think people who shy away from the word "fascist" are doing so because they can't believe it's happening in the US, or because the realisation that it is is too awful to contemplate.

Like, I don't think nearly as many people automatically recoil in horror and denial when the word "fascist" is mentioned in relation to Putin, Orban, Erdogan or Bolsonaro etc., because people imagine the countries in which those people operate as having traditional tendencies towards dictatorship. They don't recoil or horror in denial to the same extent if the word "fascist" is mentioned in relation to Le Pen, Salvini, Wilders or AFD or Vox, because Western Europe has previously experienced fascism in all its horror, and there's a direct lineage to the 1930s-1940s (or in Spain's case, 1970s) fascists there.

But given the rotten history of the US and the failure of so many people there to come to terms with it, I don't know why people are in any way surprised. And the Republican party has been going down this road for many decades.

26000 Elephants

Proper fascists put themselves in control. Trump is merely a puppet, to be used only as long as he remains useful. It's a matter of debate who is pulling the strings, but in this way Trump differs from your better examples such as Erdogan, Le Pen, etc.

But I agree with you in principal.