Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Gbear

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Proper fascists put themselves in control. Trump is merely a puppet, to be used only as long as he remains useful. It's a matter of debate who is pulling the strings, but in this way Trump differs from your better examples such as Erdogan, Le Pen, etc.

But I agree with you in principal.

That's why I think a better description for him is an accidental fascist.
His natural inclinations are towards pettiness, unilateralism, bullying and racism, so the policies he adopts will reflect that.

I don't think he really has any theory behind why there should be policies against immigrants or people of colour. He might have some vague, ignorant economic argument, but fundamentally it's just him going "Yuck! Brown People".
That plays well with similar, simple-minded racists, or people in desperate enough situations that they'll take any degree of vindictive reasoning that they believe will lead to a solution for them, or at least a means of kicking someone else.

Similarly, he has simple ideas about power and governance; namely, that he should be able to do whatever he wants, so he naturally gravitates towards those who appear to be able to do just that, and disdains those who believe in governing by consent.

He has no fascist agenda. He doesn't really have a plan. He can just intuit fascism on a basic level and gets there by default, and the support of powers at home and abroad who have a vested interest in creating such a system.

PropJoe10

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Mehdi Hasan is totally right here.

Democrats' responses to Trump's constant racist rants are always far too meek.

Yet nobody has ever found a way to effectively combat ascendant fascism in the short term. Once it's out of the bottle, it's out. It's a malignant cancer.

In the long term, it has only ever been beaten by armed stuggle, all out war, or by decades long endurance followed by the rotten, decrepit system collapsing in on itself.


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1155257264804192256

Absolutely, its about time the Dems started calling out Trump directly for the racist, ignorant pig that he is. Might as well fight fire with fire!

Kermit.de.frog

Ironically Trump is 100% right about Baltimore and Cummings. Just a shame he can't say it without coming across like a man baby.

Leroy42

And AOC is right about the conditions in the detainion camps. But one is anti American and the other is simply telling it like it is!

And why Baltimore? Is he saying that no other areas have issues? What is his solution, you know since he is POTUS after all.

Maybe instead of wasting another 50bn on a failing military he should concentrate on helping these areas.

Cody montana

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ironically Trump is 100% right about Baltimore and Cummings. Just a shame he can't say it without coming across like a man baby.

Is he not the president, is he not meant to fix it?

Stop moaning ffs

Leroy42 wrote: »

And AOC is right about the conditions in the detainion camps. But one is anti American and the other is simply telling it like it is!

And why Baltimore? Is he saying that no other areas have issues? What is his solution, you know since he is POTUS after all.

Maybe instead of wasting another 50bn on a failing military he should concentrate on helping these areas.

That’s a great point

kowloon

So Trump says Baltimore is a rat infested mess, that I get, but while that's putting down Baltimore I'm not seeing what is so racist about it. Was I looking at different tweets?

Leroy42

It is the fact that he is, yet again, attacking a person of colour. Nothing racist in the tweet itself, but why attack Cummins when according to his own inauguration speech the whole of the US is a sh1thole?

Coupled with that he called out people of colour recently for hating America on the sole issue that they dissed parts of the US. So how is he allowed to do it but people of certain colour skin are not?

So no, you aren't looking at different tweet you are simply not seeing the reality of the tweet.

Stop moaning ffs

Not to forget, what happened to his promise tic make America great again?

Surely he’s failed at it in Baltimore’s case if he’s gonna bring it up?

He’s such a monumental fraud it’s depressing anyone falls for it.

pixelburp

It's the blatant, vulgar cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy that baffles. In a couple of weeks where he attacked "the squad" for hating America, to then spin around and hate on Baltimore so vicously beggers belief. Imagine Leo Varadkar or Johnson describing a regional city within their respective borders as "rat infested". Not even Boris Johnson plays his vulgarity that close to the bone.

Christ it's not even becoming under the charter of this forum. Nevermind the US President.

And yet! It is. Tactically.

To look more closely; while I'm sceptical about open racism, look at the targets he keeps picking. Baltimore. Chicago. California. He picks blue cities or states, strongholds of a perceived liberalism - be it for guns, sanctuary laws or just "democrat" - that in the minds of the god-fearing rural demographics, they might as well be Soddom rebuilt.

No more than how Fox News delights in portraying Paris and Europe as Muslim infested socialist nightmares (to quote Trump himself, "Paris isn't Paris anymore"), the channel tells its viewers of the slums and dangers of fallen, Democrat cities. Pro crime and open borders they and Trump cry - it's a catchphrase thrown at democrat rivals, consistently. It's all part of the strategy.

Vote Democrat, get Baltimore. Crime, abortions and godlessness for all.

Outlaw Pete

Mother of God, can a white person not argue with a black person now without it being seen as racism?

Seems to me white liberals only see colour when the see black folks, maybe then the people you deem as racist are in fact the ones with the mindset you all pretend to have.

As far as I'm concerned, equality is white people speaking about people of colour the same way they speak about white people.

All this nonsense about racism is just that, nonsense. Only so many times society will pay heed to people crying wolf.

Racism is much too serious to be trivialized and (rather despicably) used like this.

Thankfully not everyone buys into that bs narrative liberals are trying to forever sell.

https://twitter.com/JDiddily/status/1155302198697496580

batgoat

Pete, you've already made clear that there's literally nothing Trump could do that you wouldn't defend. Grab em by the pussy, that was fine with you. Telling congresswomen to go back to their own countries(3/4 being from the US), that's fine. Calling countries '****holes' when he knows nothing about them, that's fine. You think absolutely everything he does is fine so you seek out content that praises his behaviour, no matter what. Everything he does is supposedly an intelligent analysis which to date, it has never been. It's poorly informed rants more often than not and in most cases it's to attack those who oppose him. He's the commander in chief, he's done nothing for the poor or those facing poverty.

Cody montana

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Mother of God, can a white person not argue with a black person now without it being seen as racism?

Seems to me white liberals only see colour when the see black folks, maybe then the people you deem as racist are in fact the ones with the mindset you all pretend to have.

As far as I'm concerned, equality is white people speaking about people of colour the same way they speak about white people.

All this nonsense about racism is just that, nonsense. Only so many times society will pay heed to people crying wolf.

Racism is much too serious to be trivialized and (rather despicably) used like this.

Thankfully not everyone buys into that bs narrative liberals are trying to forever sell.

https://twitter.com/JDiddily/status/1155302198697496580

When he told those democratic politicians to go to their own countries it WAS racist.
He is a racist.

What else can it be?

relax carry on

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Not to forget, what happened to his promise tic make America great again?

Surely he’s failed at it in Baltimore’s case if he’s gonna bring it up?

He’s such a monumental fraud it’s depressing anyone falls for it.

He's a life long conman. But he's not even that good a conman. He's just so obvious about everything he does being for the greater good of the Trump Empire. It really is telling that there's a significant amount of people who fall for it over and over.

Outlaw Pete

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Why didn't they expel him from the party? Because they don't actually give a ****, that's why.

You don't know what you're talking about. He's effectively been ostracized and Trump even refused to allow him on Air Force One recently.

In terms of the wider party, all of them are happy to support a nakedly white supremacist regime.

Eh, how so?

If the entirety of the party supports a nakedly white supremacist regime, which it absolutely does, I think it's more than fair to call that party the party of white supremacism.

Okay, give me some examples of how this white supremacist regime manifests itself.

Have a wee think about where that leaves yourself.

Are you suggesting I'm a racist?

duploelabs

relax carry on wrote: »

He's a life long conman. But he's not even that good a conman. He's just so obvious about everything he does being for the greater good of the Trump Empire. It really is telling that there's a significant amount of people who fall for it over and over.

Yeah, a con man normally makes money, Trump squandered a legacy and become a money launderer

DreamsBurnDown

pixelburp wrote: »

To look more closely; while I'm sceptical about open racism, look at the targets he keeps picking. Baltimore. Chicago. California. He picks blue cities or states, strongholds of a perceived liberalism - be it for guns, sanctuary laws or just "democrat" - that in the minds of the god-fearing rural demographics, they might as well be Soddom rebuilt.

No more than how Fox News delights in portraying Paris and Europe as Muslim infested socialist nightmares (to quote Trump himself, "Paris isn't Paris anymore"), the channel tells its viewers of the slums and dangers of fallen, Democrat cities. Pro crime and open borders they and Trump cry - it's a catchphrase thrown at democrat rivals, consistently. It's all part of the strategy.

Vote Democrat, get Baltimore. Crime, abortions and godlessness for all.

It's as clear as day what his strategy is. Why did you think he is targeting Baltimore? Because it has some of the most violent neighborhoods in the US, and Baltimore politics has been dominated by Democrats for over a century. As you correctly say he is setting up his 2020 campaign as "this is what awaits you if Democrats win". It's extremely ugly politics but Democrats need an a response other than "racist".

What is it that Democrats plan to do to make life better for people living in the worst neighborhoods in Baltimore, Chicago, etc. as whatever has been done hasn't worked for decades. Democrats cannot assume that African Americans will keep voting for them by paying lip service to their problems. At a minimum there needs to be a massive regeneration program in many US cities, but other than Pete Buttigeig who actually has some experience of regeneration projects in South Bend, I haven't heard one of the leading presidential candidate come up with a serious proposal yet. It's certainly part of a winning strategy if they do.

duploelabs

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You don't know what you're talking about. He's effectively been ostracized and Trump even refused to allow him on Air Force One recently.



Eh, how so?



Okay, give me some examples of how this white supremacist regime manifests itself.



Are you suggesting I'm a racist?

Oh dear, are you triggered?

The moment you realise that you're shouting on the same side as the racists then, in the world of partisan politics, you need to question what side you belong to.

kowloon

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is the fact that he is, yet again, attacking a person of colour. Nothing racist in the tweet itself, but why attack Cummins when according to his own inauguration speech the whole of the US is a sh1thole?

That explains it. I thought the tweet itself was pretty tame taken on its own.

pixelburp

Is Donald Trump a racist? Based of last week's comments towards AOC et al, it becomes a clearer "yes", but even if he weren't, even if we can say that Trump is not a racist...

...

The actual, brazen, open racists LOVE him. So where does that leave him?

MrFresh

pixelburp wrote: »

Is Donald Trump a racist? Based of last week's comments towards AOC et al, it becomes a clearer "yes", but even if he weren't, even if we can say that Trump is not a racist...

...

The actual, brazen, open racists LOVE him. So where does that leave him?

Anyone who is capable of believing he is a racist already knows he is. The others wouldn't accept it even if those fabled apprentice tapes surfaced. They'd just post some picture of him hugging a black person.

hill16bhoy

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Are you suggesting I'm a racist?

If you deny that obvious racism is racism - and a quick look at your posting history strongly suggests that is the case - yes, that would certainly make you a racist.

alchemist33

I'm surprised there haven't been mass public demonstrations against him, either in Baltimore, Puerto Rico, California, or anywhere else for that matter. If any leader in any establised democracy was doing what he's doing, people would be on the streets. Imagine if Boris, as PM, called Glasgow rat- infested or told Sadiq Khan to go back to where he came from.

rossie1977

DreamsBurnDown wrote: »

It's as clear as day what his strategy is. Why did you think he is targeting Baltimore? Because it has some of the most violent neighborhoods in the US, and Baltimore politics has been dominated by Democrats for over a century. As you correctly say he is setting up his 2020 campaign as "this is what awaits you if Democrats win". It's extremely ugly politics but Democrats need an a response other than "racist".

What is it that Democrats plan to do to make life better for people living in the worst neighborhoods in Baltimore, Chicago, etc. as whatever has been done hasn't worked for decades. Democrats cannot assume that African Americans will keep voting for them by paying lip service to their problems. At a minimum there needs to be a massive regeneration program in many US cities, but other than Pete Buttigeig who actually has some experience of regeneration projects in South Bend, I haven't heard one of the leading presidential candidate come up with a serious proposal yet. It's certainly part of a winning strategy if they do.

That's not a great strategy as it can be turned on its head and pointed out the poorest states in the nation have been dominated by Republicans politics for decades while most prosperous usually vote Democrat.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats have any strategies to deal with crime anyway. Prisons are already full to bursting point, police are ultra agressive towards anyone they suspect of crime even that little girl who shoplifted a doll in a dollar store. Capital punishment isn't a deterrent either.

Crime needs to be tackled not by fighting fire with fire but dealing with the issues why it's prevalent to begin with.

hill16bhoy

Two things about Trump targetting Cummings:

i) Cummings this week received clearance to subpoena the texts and emails of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner

ii) It turns out Kushner is a slum landlord in Baltimore

He's so transparent.


https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1155320747964997633

https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/926232483598913544

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/magazine/jared-kushners-other-real-estate-empire.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jared-kushner-elijah-cummings-donald-trump-baltimore-kushnerville_n_5d3cf3e0e4b0c31569ebebf6?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004

pixelburp

alchemist33 wrote: »

I'm surprised there haven't been mass public demonstrations against him, either in Baltimore, Puerto Rico, California, or anywhere else for that matter. If any leader in any establised democracy was doing what he's doing, people would be on the streets. Imagine if Boris, as PM, called Glasgow rat- infested or told Sadiq Khan to go back to where he came from.

I suspect there's an element of mental exhaustion at this stage. It's nearly a controversy a week at this stage, sometimes even two in one, and were I a politically motivated American, I'd find it hard to pick a hill to die on. Trump's base are highly motivated and outwardly angry too, I'd honestly worry that even the tamest anti-Trump protest would get attacked or vilified by red hat wearing counter protestors.

hill16bhoy

pixelburp wrote: »

I suspect there's an element of mental exhaustion at this stage. It's nearly a controversy a week at this stage, sometimes even two in one, and were I a politically motivated American, I'd find it hard to pick a hill to die on. Trump's base are highly motivated and outwardly angry too, I'd honestly worry that even the tamest anti-Trump protest would get attacked or vilified by red hat wearing counter protestors.

Causing mental exhaustion in your opponents with a years-long blizzard of lies and grotesque spectacle designed to portray omnipotence is another classic fascist propaganda technique.

For many ordinary people, it eventually becomes easier to make excuses for the fascist.

kowloon

MrFresh wrote: »

Anyone who is capable of believing he is a racist already knows he is. The others wouldn't accept it even if those fabled apprentice tapes surfaced. They'd just post some picture of him hugging a black person.

Is this the whole 'let's have a black team vs. a white team' thing?

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/papadopoulos-heads-to-greece-to-retrieve-10k-in-safe-as-senate-investigators-request-bills


It’s all coming together did trump. Mueller was a complete disaster for the dems
I expect Barr to actually blow the Democrats away with his findings into how this all started.
The dems are running scared. They know this is another example of Obama and the dems using the arms of the state to go after private individuals.
It’s over, trump has won

duploelabs

Grant Shaggy Self-confidence wrote: »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/papadopoulos-heads-to-greece-to-retrieve-10k-in-safe-as-senate-investigators-request-bills


It’s all coming together did trump. Mueller was a complete disaster for the dems
I expect Barr to actually blow the Democrats away with his findings into how this all started.
The dems are running scared. They know this is another example of Obama and the dems using the arms of the state to go after private individuals.
It’s over, trump has won

Trump has won what exactly?