Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

ScottCapper

FrostyJack wrote: »

Nice try. These are the things Trump says they are doing and since he is incapable of telling the truth on anything you must know this is a lie. He is the president of Baltimore, if it is rat infested it must be his fault, Trump is the one who flew around the World to shake hands, legitimise and salute Korean generals, who is "supporting" MS13? Who's admin is allowing children to die in cages and seperating them from parents and also wants to kill health care while increasing the cost of said healthcare. Taxpayers are paying for anyone who turns up at hospitals without health insurance, legal or illegal. Who is for open borders, not supporting a waste of money wall and allowing immigration is not open borders.

Trump is a straight shooter he is telling the truth and well capable. These are straight facts i see no lies at all. I've seen videos of Baltimore it looks absolute disgusting its obviously the states fault i wouldn't blame trump as a whole. At least trump got to shake hands with Kim Jon-Un look at Obama when he visited the DMZ he was looking through "binoculars" on the south Korean side google it. Children having been dying long before the trump administration on the border it's like the migrants coming into Europe you can't blame one party/government how about blame the human traffickers/drug smugglers? the democrats have took the border situation way too out of context, people should enter the country legally not illegally. He is obviously tackling the border issue now it will be interesting to see how it plays out, I for one would not like illegals entering my country... why not go down the legal route like everyone else?

Trump is president and people just have to deal with it. stop whining and complaining he's doing a great job better than any democrat/socialist ever would. imagine if some aloof like Obama was still running the country it would be a disaster.

FrostyJack

ScottCapper wrote: »

Trump is a straight shooter he is telling the truth and well capable.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ There is no person in high office in history of the known history of the World that lies more than him, less than 20% of his statements are true.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/browse/
Most the things he got done like reduce environmental regulation, are negative things in the real World.

At least trump got to shake hands with Kim Jon-Un look at Obama when he visited the DMZ he was looking through "binoculars" on the south Korean side google it.

Obama could have shook hands with him, but he didn't want to legitimise his leadership and ignore all his crimes against his people, including American citizens, that Trump thinks it is okay to kill. Very moral and patriotic of him.

Children having been dying long before the trump administration on the border it's like the migrants coming into Europe you can't blame one party/government how about blame the human traffickers/drug smugglers?

Yes there were camps setup under previous admins and people died in them, but they weren't squashed in like cattle and made drink toilet water.

Trump is president and people just have to deal with it. stop whining and complaining he's doing a great job better than any democrat/socialist ever would. imagine if some aloof like Obama was still running the country it would be a disaster.

Thanos has the gauntlet, the Avengers should sit down and be quiet. In nearly every metric Trump is doing a terrible job. From increasing the divide in the country, to making the country a laughing stock around the World, exploding the national debt instead of reducing it while things are going well. The only positive is he hasn't crashed the economy yet, but with his reckless trade wars and childlike policy decisions, when it does come it will be far worse than if an adult was running the country.

Midlife

vetinari wrote: »

What's particularly galling about that made up study is how ridiculous the numbers are. It speaks to how dimly these groups view the American electorate when they throw out a number like 70 thousand. That's higher than the average salary in some states. They clearly think that a large section of the population are just morons. Otherwise the number would be something like 20 thousand.

Yes, the standard of rational thought is really low. A quick google tells you the median household income in PA is just under 60K.

It's quite depressing. A hallfway decent transition year debater would take apart most of the adults I see posting.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1156627207965593601?s=19

Perhaps there is something to this "Moscow Mitch" thing after all.

Perhaps Trump is the unluckiest guy in the world, in that its merely the optics are terrible, it always looks like he's doing something wrong but we are misinterpreting him.

Perhaps poor Mitch is the same - but blocking election security bills and voting to lift sanctions against a Russian oligarch seem faily shady now...

serfboard

everlast75 wrote: »

Perhaps poor Mitch is the same - but blocking election security bills and voting to lift sanctions against a Russian oligarch seem faily shady now...

American politics, and the Republican part in particular, is deeply corrupt - which is why Trump wasn't really such a great departure from the norm.

vetinari

It's funny, the Russian link has been so out in the open that people discount it based on that.
If Trump and McConnell were Russian agents, they wouldn't be acting much differently to what they are.
The deference Trump gives Putin still amazes me.

Itssoeasy

I don’t understand how it seems that in some quarters the Russians aren’t as bad as the democrats amongst some trump supporters. Imagine a republican or someone who voted GOP saying in the 1980s that’d prefer to be a Russian than a democrat ?

Trump is a disgrace under any logical metric. I mean I dislike the guy not because of policies or lack thereof, I dislike because he exhibits many of the traits I hate in people. He’s willfully ignorant on even the most basic things that while basic are kind of important when he’s president of the United States.

duploelabs

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I don’t understand how it seems that in some quarters the Russians aren’t as bad as the democrats amongst some trump supporters. Imagine a republican or someone who voted GOP saying in the 1980s that’d prefer to be a Russian than a democrat ?

Trump is a disgrace under any logical metric. I mean I dislike the guy not because of policies or lack thereof, I dislike because he exhibits many of the traits I hate in people. He’s willfully ignorant on even the most basic things that while basic are kind of important when he’s president of the United States.

And why the republicans are so blasé about the interference, 'f*ck it, we're in government, who cares right?' partisan to the extreme

StringerBell

Don't worry it will change as soon as they are out of power. Then the sombre, party of law and order fiscal conservatives will return like clock work.

Water John

Moral equivalence is the usual soundbite of the morally bankrupt.
I have no problem in a fair argument between a conservative and a progressive, but that's not what we have got now. The POTUS and GOP are not true conservatives.

ScottCapper

StringerBell wrote: »

Well, both parties are pro business.....I mean, who isn't pro business?

Why do you like a party that is lax on regulation? Can you expand on your thoughts? Do you mean you don't like over regulation or you just don't like regulation, don't think its necessary, don't care about the environment/food safety/medicine safety etc etc etc

I don't care whether you think they are both as bad as each other or neither fit to rule. I am interested in the regulation bit though.

I just dont like too much redtape in any economy regarding business, I know myself personally that in Ireland there is far too much i know it's much more lax over there.

batgoat

ScottCapper wrote: »

I just dont like too much redtape in any economy regarding business, I know myself personally that in Ireland there is far too much i know it's much more lax over there.

And America has historically had far too little red tape. A lack of regulation and red tape led to the recession. Wall Street were free to do as they wished and the subprime mortgage crisis occurred. What type of regulation are you concerned about the Democrats pursuing?

FrostyJack

batgoat wrote:

And America has historically had far too little red tape. A lack of regulation and red tape led to the recession. Wall Street were free to do as they wished and the subprime mortgage crisis occurred. What type of regulation are you concerned about the Democrats pursuing?

Regulation is a dirty word in the US, along with socialism and compromise. A classic example of this is when "liberal" Dave Rubin was on Joe Rogan a while back and complained about it, he referenced the building trade, which fortunately Joe had experience in and for once decided to push back. Rubin, a woefully dishonest person, doubled down but could not site one thing wrong with regulating the industry, but said it would regulate itself. Anyone in Ireland with any dealings with developers and builders will know if they could build a house with paper or asbestos they would to save money.

The interest rate cut announced today to any sane person would indicate Trump cannot maintain an economy without effectively cheating, his speciality. We already saw with tax cuts ( though not his idea, they were purely for the likes of Ryan and McConnell) that he has no adult policies to mantain or help the economy. Basically propping it up with treacle. To people like me a lower interest rate would make a massive difference to my quality of life but I know it would screw me down the road. It is like blocking a punch to the toes only to allow a fatal punch down the line.

Quin_Dub

If you look at the reasons that Jerome Powell gave for the interest rate cut , they are a direct response to the awfulness of Trumps policies

They gave 2 main reasons

Lack of Business investment - This was what the tax cuts were supposed to drive , trickle down economics and all that . But of course , that's not what happened, Business used the extra money for share buy-backs and dividends. So they now hope that cheap money might get the trickle going..

Uncertain Trade conditions - Otherwise known as Trumps stupid trade/tariff wars.

So basically , they've had to cut rates to protect the economy from the risks and impacts created by Trumps policies..

26000 Elephants

ScottCapper wrote: »

I just dont like too much redtape in any economy regarding business, I know myself personally that in Ireland there is far too much i know it's much more lax over there.

Where do you think this 'red tape' comes from? Do you think there are government departments staffed with elves whose sole purpose is to dream up random regulations to annoy you?

The regulations are almost always retroactive responses to business people putting their profits ahead of the safety and well being of their customers. Although not the worst example, have read into the report into Ford's handling of a fire risk in the Pinto during the '70's. A whole raft of regulations defining corporate liability stemmed from that one case.
Most regulations (outside of fiscal ones) probably represent someone killed or injured by its absence.

StringerBell

Yes, we can see that. Anybody who looks into it will also see that, but do you think it will be broadcast that way on Fox? Do you think the average Donald Trump supporter will accept that? Not a chance, and most Republicans will now happily swallow and regurgitate whatever spin comes out from dear leader about it.

26000 Elephants

batgoat wrote: »

ScottCapper wrote: »

I just dont like too much redtape in any economy regarding business, I know myself personally that in Ireland there is far too much i know it's much more lax over there.

And America has historically had far too little red tape. A lack of regulation and red tape led to the recession. Wall Street were free to do as they wished and the subprime mortgage crisis occurred. What type of regulation are you concerned about the Democrats pursuing?

Ironic as it may seem, it was Bill Clinton who was responsible for the largest deregulation of the financial services sector ever. It was this reduced scrutiny that (almost directly) led to the collapse.

Gbear

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Where do you think this 'red tape' comes from? Do you think there are government departments staffed with elves whose sole purpose is to dream up random regulations to annoy you?

The regulations are almost always retroactive responses to business people putting their profits ahead of the safety and well being of their customers. Although not the worst example, have read into the report into Ford's handling of a fire risk in the Pinto during the '70's. A whole raft of regulations defining corporate liability stemmed from that one case.
Most regulations (outside of fiscal ones) probably represent someone killed or injured by its absence.

Sure, but people are notoriously bad at solving problems.

Take the entirety of the government's drugs policy over a period of 70 years.
People are incompetent, they're ignorant, they have contradicting priorities, and they're even quite often explicitly out to damage society for their own personal gain.

It's hard enough to trust regulations at the best of times, but that's further worsened in the US by its propensity for passing regulation explicitly for the benefit of established businesses.

Take drug regulations in the US as another example. Generic drugs are all but banned and people are beggaring themselves to buy basic medicine like insulin because of how regulatory capture has made the system a joke.

Of course regulation isn't in itself a bad thing, but if you don't have a robust system to implement it on an independent basis that protects society as its guiding principle, then it can be worse than no regulation.

As with shoring up their democratic systems, there is going to be an almighty war to try to shift the purpose of these mechanisms to benefit the people rather than a cabal of oligarchs. The Democrats who aren't corrupt are going to have a serious uphill battle against the rot in their own party and basically the entirety of the right wing of US politics and business.

A fear I have, beyond 2020, is that even if the Dems win very little will actually change, because that's just how progress works, and there will be another backlash against them by impatient voters who are demanding fantastical levels of improvement, and it'll just end up handing the keys to the asylum back to the inmates 4-8 years later.

Christy42

Gbear wrote: »

Sure, but people are notoriously bad at solving problems.

Take the entirety of the government's drugs policy over a period of 70 years.
People are incompetent, they're ignorant, they have contradicting priorities, and they're even quite often explicitly out to damage society for their own personal gain.

It's hard enough to trust regulations at the best of times, but that's further worsened in the US by its propensity for passing regulation explicitly for the benefit of established businesses.

Take drug regulations in the US as another example. Generic drugs are all but banned and people are beggaring themselves to buy basic medicine like insulin because of how regulatory capture has made the system a joke.

Of course regulation isn't in itself a bad thing, but if you don't have a robust system to implement it on an independent basis that protects society as its guiding principle, then it can be worse than no regulation.

As with shoring up their democratic systems, there is going to be an almighty war to try to shift the purpose of these mechanisms to benefit the people rather than a cabal of oligarchs. The Democrats who aren't corrupt are going to have a serious uphill battle against the rot in their own party and basically the entirety of the right wing of US politics and business.

A fear I have, beyond 2020, is that even if the Dems win very little will actually change, because that's just how progress works, and there will be another backlash against them by impatient voters who are demanding fantastical levels of improvement, and it'll just end up handing the keys to the asylum back to the inmates 4-8 years later.

I mean you can have bad regulations but even the example you give no regulation in the pharma industry is far worse than the bad ones they have. Certainly some bad ones could be taken out to help but it is better than taking out the full system (which is what no reg means).

Remember the people taking advantage of the no regulations can also be terrible people and don't have split priorities. And they frequently get applauded by shareholders for being terrible so they can do it a lot more openly.

We should make regulation as good as we can but regulation has been (overall) a net positive.

26000 Elephants

Gbear wrote: »

Take drug regulations in the US as another example. Generic drugs are all but banned and people are beggaring themselves to buy basic medicine like insulin because of how regulatory capture has made the system a joke.

Generic drugs are about 90% of the market, so I don't understand what you mean by 'banned'. The biggest problem the US has had with generic drugs was poor quality from fraudulently documented foreign products.
The other issue with medicines is the US failure to socialise the costs: that's how you make them affordable for everyone. That's what Republicans have done for years, including the current regimes efforts to reverse ACA.

Medicines are not cheap to produce, and drug companies are entitled to recoup the billions they spend in research, but if costs are spread over the entire population, it means that they are accessible to those who need them irrespective of their means.

pixelburp

Just further on the issue of tearing up regulations, here's a timely addition on the way, via the EPA

https://earther.gizmodo.com/trump-epa-opens-a-new-assault-on-obama-era-coal-ash-rul-1836862743

[T]he Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced a proposal on Tuesday to remove a key threshold requiring companies and utilities to prove that any coal ash deposit that weighs at least 12,400 tons wouldn’t result in environmental harm. Instead, companies would only need to prove a project is safe if the coal ash is being dumped near a wetland, unstable area, or other location-based factors under the new proposal. There are just a few problems with that.

The proposal, however, doesn’t offer any clear guidelines on what counts as near enough to trigger an environmental analysis or what agency or office is responsible for overseeing these determinations. In the past, companies had to do an environmental analysis for any coal ash storage project that weighed at least 12,400 tons.

(apologies for the editorialised source, if it has the wrong slant on things, by all means I'm open to correction). Sounds like exactly the kind of flimsy, abstract legislation that's ripe for manipulation by the industry that (presumably) lobbied for the relaxation. I think there's a glibness when 'anti red-tape' people shout aversion to laws and regulation, forgetting or simply choosing to ignore the need for protections.

The myth of industries self-regulating, especially ones that have to deal with poisonous by-products and run-offs like the coal industry, is precisely that. It's naive to think that were it not for environmental or infrastructural regulation, companies would do the decent thing. We'd be living in asbestos firetraps, drinking leaded water, and the land would be poisoned beyond repair.


Oh.

By the way, the EPA is now headed by Andrew R Wheeler, a climate change denier, and former lobbyist for ... ... well guess. Guess what industry, given what you just read, Wheeler worked on behalf of fadó?

Drain the swamp? With this guy in charge of the EPA, the swamps will be filled with coal ash.

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

Just further on the issue of tearing up regulations, here's a timely addition on the way, via the EPA

https://earther.gizmodo.com/trump-epa-opens-a-new-assault-on-obama-era-coal-ash-rul-1836862743



(apologies for the editorialised source, if it has the wrong slant on things, by all means I'm open to correction). Sounds like exactly the kind of flimsy, abstract legislation that's ripe for manipulation by the industry that (presumably) lobbied for the relaxation. I think there's a glibness when 'anti red-tape' people shout aversion to laws and regulation, forgetting or simply choosing to ignore the need for protections.

The myth of industries self-regulating, especially ones that have to deal with poisonous by-products and run-offs like the coal industry, is precisely that. It's naive to think that were it not for environmental or infrastructural regulation, companies would do the decent thing. We'd be living in asbestos firetraps, drinking leaded water, and the land would be poisoned beyond repair.


Oh.

By the way, the EPA is now headed by Andrew R Wheeler, a climate change denier, and former lobbyist for ... ... well guess. Guess what industry, given what you just read, Wheeler worked on behalf of fadó?

Drain the swamp? With this guy in charge of the EPA, the swamps will be filled with coal ash.

It really is almost a parody of cartoon villain stuff.

Incredible really

everlast75

fantastic thread on twitter about criminals linked to Trump Tower, just one of Trump's properties

https://twitter.com/Zeddary/status/1155486497451184128

"On the subject of #CrimeInfested. A thread.

Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman, owned and lived in a condo on 43rd floor of Trump Tower.

Currently in prison for money-laundering, bank fraud, tax fraud, witness tampering and conspiracy against the United States."

"Helly Nahmad. Owns the entire 51st floor of Trump Tower.

Pleaded guilty and received 12-month prison sentence in 2014 for operating an illegal, multi-million $ gambling business out of Trump Tower. Case tied to notorious Russian mafia "boss of all bosses" Semion Mogilevich"

"Vadim Trincher, former condo owner on 63rd floor of Trump Tower. Mastermind of Trump Tower gambling ring with Nahmad. 5 years in federal prison and $20 million in asset forfeiture for racketeering."

"Jean Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier. Haitian dictator, tied to death and torture of thousands of its citizens. Arrested upon return from exile and charged with embezzlement and human rights abuse.Owned a condo at Trump Tower valued at $2.5 million."

"Felix Sater. Worked in an office out of the 24th floor of Trump Tower and a Trump Org employee. Lead negotiations for Trump Tower Moscow and Trump Soho. 15 months in prison for stabbing a man with a margarita glass. Also convicted in $40 million stock trading scheme."

"Michael Cohen. Trump's personal attorney, former Trump Org employee at Trump Tower and resident of Trump World Tower. Currently in prison for tax evasion, bank fraud, lying to investigators and campaign finance violations tied to illegal hush money payments at direction of Trump"

"Joseph Weichselbaum. Trump's personal chopper pilot in the 1980s. Upgraded from 32nd floor Trump Tower apartment to adjoining 49th floor condos while he was serving federal sentence for smuggling cocaine out of Colombia via Miami. The condos were paid for with all cash."

"Vyacheslav Ivankov. Top Russian mafia boss and associate of Semion Mogilevich. Hid out in Trump Tower and was high-roller at Trump Taj Mahal even while subject of a worldwide FBI manhunt. 9-year prison sentence for racketeering. Shot dead in 2009 outside Moscow restaurant."

"Anatoly Golubchik and Michael Sall. Co-conspirators in the Trincher Trump Tower Gambling Ring. Golubchik was described as an enforcer for the group, collecting debts with threat of violence."

"Steven Hoffenberg. Leased office space on the 15th floor of Trump Tower mere months after the SEC sued him for operating the largest Ponzi scheme in American history until the Madoff scandal. Served 16 years of a 20 year sentence for bilking $475 million from investors."

"Ernest Garcia II, billionaire and owner of Drivetime. Huge stakeholder in those hellishly dystopian 'car vending machines' you see advertised. Owns an apartment in Trump Tower. In 1990 pleaded guilty to a $30 million bank fraud scheme tied to the Keating 5 Savings & Loan scandal"

"Melvin Cooper. Convicted of helping mastermind a violent loan shark scheme for the Colombo and Gambino crime families in 1985. After getting out of prison he purchased a Trump Tower condo and later bought a second."

"Sheldon Weinberg. Paid $180,000 a year in rent for his Trump Tower condo at the same time he was pulling in $30,000 a week from Medicare fraud. Sheldon disappeared in 1989 but was caught after the case was featured on 'Unsolved Mysteries.' Served 16 years."

"Jose Maria Marin. Former governor of Sao Paolo and President of the Brazilian Football League. Found guilty of seven counts of money laundering and wire fraud as part of the 2015 FIFA scandal. Currently in prison.Spent his house arrest pending trial at his condo in Trump Tower."

"Chuck Blazer, FIFA executive committee. Pleaded guilty as part of the same scandal. Racketeering, wire fraud, tax evasion, money laundering. Died before sentencing. Two luxury apartments in Trump Tower. One for himself and one exclusively for his cats. "

"David Bogatin. One of Trump Tower's earliest tenants, purchased five condos for $6 million in 1984 in a deal that Trump personally closed.Later extradited from Poland after fleeing indictment in a Russian mob gas smuggling scheme. 7 year prison sentence."

"Robert Hopkins. Trump personally appeared at closing on his $1.7 million condo that included $200k in cash that Trump counted himself. Arrested on murder charges and convicted of running a $500,000 a week numbers racket for the Lucchese crime family."

"Both Golubchik and Sall forfeited their Trump Tower condos as criminal assets."

eire4

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Ironic as it may seem, it was Bill Clinton who was responsible for the largest deregulation of the financial services sector ever. It was this reduced scrutiny that (almost directly) led to the collapse.

To be fair while not as extreme as the Republicans who have lurched as a party to the far right the Democrats have moved to the right since the 70's as well hence you get at best centrist Democratic presidents like Clinton who not only did the deregulation you talked about but he also gutted some social welfare programms. The reality of the US since Reagan got into power is of move to the right much farther and faster when Republicans are in power but not getting reversed when Democrats are in power rather still inching to the right as what is seen as the center in American politics shifts further right.

I very much agree with you about the consequences of the deregulation in the financial sector and look at the Democrats response after they got into power under Obama. Was there any big reaction? Any attempt to reintroduction legislation like say Glass-Steagaal which said banks could not get into investment banking activities. The answer of course is no. Obama's administration passed Dodd-Frank which did attempt to put the burden of big financial mistakes back into the banks laps rather then the tax payers and it did some other good things like make big banks have to do stress tests but it did little to actually stop the kind of risky banking behaviour that created the 2008 financial crisis in the first place and what happened more recently yes you guessed it the Republicans have since gutted what little that Dodd-Frank did and they did so with substantial numbers of votes from Democrats in the senate.

Gbear

Christy42 wrote: »

I mean you can have bad regulations but even the example you give no regulation in the pharma industry is far worse than the bad ones they have. Certainly some bad ones could be taken out to help but it is better than taking out the full system (which is what no reg means).

Remember the people taking advantage of the no regulations can also be terrible people and don't have split priorities. And they frequently get applauded by shareholders for being terrible so they can do it a lot more openly.

We should make regulation as good as we can but regulation has been (overall) a net positive.

My broader point is that it's not enough to just make up some rules or invent new tools to broaden the state's power.

The next time the Republican party get into power they can just **** those rules in the bin and use those new powers for their own corrupt ends.

With the democratic process, especially with the recent Supreme Court decision around gerrymandering, redrawing districts won't make a permanent fix. Something like moving voting to some form of proportional representation would.

With things like the FCC, if the government of the day can arbitrarily stick an industry stooge in as Chairman, and there's a revolving door between industry and the board, how can any serious progress be made?

I'm sure the same applies to the FDA. It's a bit rusty in my memory but I believe Dr Ben Goldacre wrote a back about it called Bad Pharma (more generally about how appalling the pharmaceutical industry is).

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Generic drugs are about 90% of the market, so I don't understand what you mean by 'banned'. The biggest problem the US has had with generic drugs was poor quality from fraudulently documented foreign products.
The other issue with medicines is the US failure to socialise the costs: that's how you make them affordable for everyone. That's what Republicans have done for years, including the current regimes efforts to reverse ACA.

Medicines are not cheap to produce, and drug companies are entitled to recoup the billions they spend in research, but if costs are spread over the entire population, it means that they are accessible to those who need them irrespective of their means.

Fair enough, I was being hyperbolic, but there are clear issues around spurious patents on trivially changed drugs and if you see things like insulin, epi pens or whatever being wildly overpriced something's gone wrong.

The entire patent and IP system in the US is purely designed to make money for big businesses, and the citizens of the country can go die in a fire for all they care, and I don't buy at all that anything like it is necessary morally or to allow for technological advancement, but that's an argument for another thread.

StringerBell

More tariffs announced, you know if he keeps it going he may just be able to stretch it out to mid 2020 where he can sign a trade deal and give the economy a little bump to keep it going till November.

greenfield21

Well the us economy is the only bright spot in the world at minute. I think trump is in a great position either way.

Water John

So why were interest rates cut? Doubt if the Head of Fed had a brainfart.

Timberrrrrrrr

greenfield21 wrote: »

Well the us economy is the only bright spot in the world at minute. I think trump is in a great position either way.

It's actually a house of cards that is destined to crash fast and hard.

everlast75

JFC.

at this stage, they're not even hiding it.


https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1157030332295798785?s=19