Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

amandstu

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49125391

"US President Donald Trump has since offered Mr Putin help in putting out the fires."

I wonder ,has he offered any advice on tundra hygiene?

MrFresh

Pelosi's statement on investigation progress.

When we take the oath of office, we solemnly vow ‘to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.’ The Mueller report states unequivocally that Russia interfered in the 2016 election ‘in sweeping and systematic fashion.’ And the Intelligence Community informs us that Russia is working 24/7 to undermine our elections. This assault on our elections is a serious national security matter which the President chooses to ignore.

“The Mueller report and his testimony last week confirmed that the President’s campaign welcomed Russian interference in the election, and laid out ten instances of the President’s obstruction of justice. The President’s more recent attempts to prevent us from finding the facts is further evidence of obstruction of justice.

“To protect our democracy and our Constitution, Democrats in the Congress continue to legislate, investigate and litigate.

Litigation:

Last week, Jerry Nadler, Chair of Judiciary, took a significant step when he filed a petition to obtain the grand jury testimony underlying the Mueller report, for the House to ‘have access to all the relevant facts and consider whether to exercise its full Article I powers, including a constitutional power of the utmost gravity — approval of articles of impeachment.’

Elijah Cummings, Chair of Oversight and Reform, is winning in court in the Mazars case, seeking the President’s financial statements and reports prepared by his accountant to determine financial conflicts, violations of the Emoluments Clause, and the truthfulness of representations contained in the President’s statutorily required financial disclosure forms; Maxine Waters, Chair of Financial Services and Adam Schiff, Chair of Intelligence are winning in court in the Deutsche Bank case, seeking the President’s bank account records to assist with the Committees’ investigation of unsafe banking practices, including money laundering, illicit transactions and foreign investments;

Richie Neal, Chair of Ways and Means, is pursuing the President’s tax returns to assist with the ongoing investigation of the IRS’s presidential tax audit program; Eliot Engel, Chair of Foreign Affairs, on another front, is investigating the Russia connection with hearings seeking the facts from the Trump-Putin meetings; In addition, last week, the House voted to reiterate its oversight authority, and ratified and affirmed the subpoenas already issued by the committees and any subpoenas to come. Responding to the subpoenas gives the President an opportunity to provide information that could exonerate him. If he has nothing to hide, he should cooperate with the subpoenas.

Investigation:

Our litigation has been strengthened by the months of work from our six committees which are engaged in the investigations. 54 percent of House Democrats serve on these committees engaged in hearings and investigations, and I am very proud of their work.

Legislation:

We have sent the Securing America’s Federal Elections Act to the Senate. However, Mitch McConnell refuses to take up this legislation or any other legislation to protect our democracy. Why do the President and the Republican Leader in the Senate choose to protect Russia rather than to protect the integrity of our elections? We will continue to lead a drumbeat across the country demanding the GOP Senate act.

“The assault on our elections and our Constitution is a grave national security issue. We owe it to our Founders to sustain our system of checks and balances and our democracy. We owe it to our heroic men and women in uniform who risk their lives for freedom to defend our democracy at home. We owe it to our children to ensure that no present or future president can dishonor the oath of office without being held accountable.

“In America, no one is above the law. The President will be held accountable.”

duploelabs

amandstu wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49125391

"US President Donald Trump has since offered Mr Putin help in putting out the fires."

I wonder ,has he offered any advice on tundra hygiene?

Sweeping up the leaves properly like Trump did singlehandedly to stop the Californian fires

amandstu

duploelabs wrote: »

Sweeping up the leaves properly like Trump did singlehandedly to stop the Californian fires

Part of his prison regime could be cleaning up the soot marks in the Arctic.

His orange jumpsuit might have to be changed for a reflective one to stop him burning a hole in the snow and ending up in Antarctica.

You may sa-ay I'm a dreamer....

26000 Elephants

amandstu wrote: »

His orange jumpsuit might have to be changed for a reflective one to stop him burning a hole in the snow and ending up in Antarctica.

That will also avoid the quandary of exactly where the President ends and the jumpsuit begins....

Gbear

MrFresh wrote: »

Pelosi's statement on investigation progress.

I'm not sure has she done this before, but it's certainly welcome.

A lot of concern about the Dems sitting on their hands could be allayed by effective communication.

Radio silence can make some sort of overarching strategy just look like fearfulness or obliviousness.

As well as memes, like Moscow Mitch, that seem to be catching on, there needs to be a constant drumbeat of asserting that the Republicans are attempting to destroy democracy in the US, and it needs to be delivered in a way that people can engage with.

I'd imagine a lot of voters are happy to hand wave away corruption like Trump's pay for play out of Trump International DC, as being just standard politician fare (regardless of how incorrect they are), but they might feel like they have more skin in the game if it concerns foreign powers actively interfering with their voting process.

Its interesting to see Fox mentioning the hubbub about McConnell without giving it much in the way of spin:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/moscow-mitch-merchandise-sales-top-200000-in-48-hours-kentucky-dems-say

The pejorative nickname emerged when Washington Post writer Dana Milbank suggested in an article last week that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., was a “Russian asset” for blocking legislation to bolster election security.

MSNBC host Joe Scarborough went on the air and called McConnell “Moscow Mitch” for supposedly “aiding and abetting” Russian President Vladimir Putin’s efforts to interfere with American elections, as it was accused of doing during the last presidential election in 2016.

aloyisious

If Fox News repeats the mention of the "Moscow Mitch" meme by another of its commentators on the network without attributing it to WaPo's original mention, it'll be a break, even if its Fox trying to cover its ass at this late stage. Been seen to be acting as a de-facto unregistered foreign agent on behalf of the Russian government won't be popular in the party, even if the Washington Republican set approve of his actions.

everlast75

Another mass shooting.

Another white supremacist.

One is just one. Two may be a coincidence.

Multiple times?

https://twitter.com/shaleah77/status/1157768524099719170?s=19

Trump needs to quit with the rhetoric.

The US needs to sort out gun control, and being in the pocket of the NRA that isn't going tho happen with the GOP.

pixelburp

In any other country, Sandy Hook would have been the watershed wake up call; that something wasn't working and the gun laws had to change.

If scores of dead kindergarten children couldn't swing a mindset, Walmart shoppers certainly won't. The racist angle of the shooters might stir debate, but not towards gun control, that's for sure. Bringing up Trump shows that; his culpability in this shooting is immaterial, a symptom here and not the disease.

At this stage, I'm desensitised myself; they happen now in the US with such frequency it simply doesn't surprise when the latest News Alert kicks in.

Again, dead children couldn't swing a change. I get it's an emotive, reductionist thing to say but equally, it shouldn't be. Sandy Hook should have been the shock to the system.

listermint

pixelburp wrote: »

In any other country, Sandy Hook would have been the watershed wake up call; that something wasn't working and the gun laws had to change.

If scores of dead kindergarten children couldn't swing a mindset, Walmart shoppers certainly won't. The racist angle of the shooters might stir debate, but not towards gun control, that's for sure. Bringing up Trump shows that; his culpability in this shooting is immaterial, a symptom here and not the disease.

At this stage, I'm desensitised myself; they happen now in the US with such frequency it simply doesn't surprise when the latest News Alert kicks in.

Again, dead children couldn't swing a change. I get it's an emotive, reductionist thing to say but equally, it shouldn't be. Sandy Hook should have been the shock to the system.

Columbine was 1999, that should have been a water shed moment. 20 years...

StringerBell

Colombine was horrific, and obviously should have been a real watershed moment for gun control in the U.S. I agree, but after Sandy Hook I knew there was going to be nothing, nothing to move the needle. They are ****ed, if that didn't shock a population into action then what would realistically?

aloyisious

StringerBell wrote: »

Colombine was horrific, and obviously should have been a real watershed moment for gun control in the U.S. I agree, but after Sandy Hook I knew there was going to be nothing, nothing to move the needle. They are ****ed, if that didn't shock a population into action then what would realistically?

Straying away from Don and his chance of re-election, its the deliberate conflation of firearms ownership rights with the notion that a firearm in the right hands can and will counter the firearm in the wrong hands that is the rallying call of the deniers of responsibility for deaths at the hands of the irresponsible legal licensed firearms user. Each illegal mass shooting of innocent people shows afresh the anti-social attitude of the fire-arms lobby towards the victims as against that shown towards the shooters various rights, including a right to have a firearms licence.

On another topic related to what Don has been intent on effecting in the US, a change in the Fed interest rate charge applied to loans and savings accounts, is it correct that it's been several years that it lowered its official rate?

Kermit.de.frog

Never thought i'd see the day when absolute trash by Katie Hopkins is being retweeted by the POTUS.

I feel the damage is done in terms of debasement. Even if we get a normal president next time the office and American leadership will never be the same again.

Water John

It will be one of the key tasks of the next POTUS, to reset the norms.
I'ts why I'm sorta divided between the Dems putting in a radical and a moderate.

Stacksofwacks

Water John wrote: »

It will be one of the key tasks of the next POTUS, to reset the norms.
I'ts why I'm sorta divided between the Dems putting in a radical and a moderate.

If they put in a so called 'moderate' then we will get the same norms that led to Trump, big banks/wall st running the show, corrupt system, wars, no movement on gun violence etc. Bring in a Bernie Sanders then I feel he could fix alot of the problems in the country, or at least move it in the right direction

MrFresh

pixelburp wrote: »

In any other country, Sandy Hook would have been the watershed wake up call; t

It was so bad they just went into denial. It's a big conspiracy now.

Water John wrote: »

It will be one of the key tasks of the next POTUS, to reset the norms.
I'ts why I'm sorta divided between the Dems putting in a radical and a moderate.

The next president? The next three presidents might have a chance of getting back to normality

Outlaw Pete

everlast75 wrote: »

Another mass shooting.
Another white supremacist.
One is just one. Two may be a coincidence.
Multiple times?
Trump needs to quit with the rhetoric.

Yeah, thought it might be Trump's fault somehow.

If anything, this nut seemed to be annoyed by democrat politicians them recently spouting far left rhetoric:


##Mod Note##

Quote removed

Not having a mass murderers justification post shown here.

Discuss it, debate it, but don't post it here.



Whatever the truth though, the guy was crazy, and suggesting Trump is somehow culpable is abhorrent, but predictable nevertheless.

MrFresh

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, thought it might be Trump's fault somehow.

If anything, this nut seemed to be annoyed by democrat politicians them recently spouting far left rhetoric:




Whatever the truth though, the guy was crazy, and suggesting Trump is somehow culpable is abhorrent, but predictable nevertheless.

If there is an anti immigrant motive then it would be flat out despicable to not attribute some responsibility to Trump. He has dehumanised immigrants to an extreme level.

Caegan

Trump's finger prints may not be on this but he has done nothing but stoke the fire's of white nationalism.

So yes this and many other horrible acts can be placed at his feet

Stop moaning ffs

Is it just me or is trump now affecting a Boston/New England twang when he speaks?

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, thought it might be Trump's fault somehow.

If anything, this nut seemed to be annoyed by democrat politicians them recently spouting far left rhetoric:




Whatever the truth though, the guy was crazy, and suggesting Trump is somehow culpable is abhorrent, but predictable nevertheless.

I'm old enough to remember this...

https://twitter.com/ChrisEvans/status/1157864732704960513?s=19


Trump also retweeted Katie Hopkins twice hours before the shooting. She, like Trump, tslked about infestation when talking about immigrants.

And btw, 15 mins after the shooting Trump posts a tweet about that night's. MMA fight.

Zero empathy.

Brian?

Here’s how he mass shooting will be spun over the next few days by Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller etc. .

Shooter was mentally ill.

Walmart banned their staff concealed carrying weapons, Walmart need to rescind that rule and have a minimum number of staff per store armed.

Shooter is a monster.

Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. Walmart should have hired more military vets and allowed them to concealed carry.

Shooter should get the death penalty. He’s a sick monster.

In about 3 days it’ll fade away and just become a statistic. It’s sickening.

everlast75

Brian? wrote: »

Here’s how he mass shooting will be spun over the next few days by Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller etc. .

Shooter was mentally ill.

Walmart banned their staff concealed carrying weapons, Walmart need to rescind that rule and have a minimum number of staff per store armed.

Shooter is a monster.

Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. Walmart should have hired more military vets and allowed them to concealed carry.

Shooter should get the death penalty. He’s a sick monster.

In about 3 days it’ll fade away and just become a statistic. It’s sickening.

You forgot one.

Now is not the time to talk about gun control, and anyone looking to make an argument against access to guns is looking to profit from this massacre.

Midlife

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Whatever the truth though, the guy was crazy, and suggesting Trump is somehow culpable is abhorrent, but predictable nevertheless.

The last time i had such a protracted conversation with people so obviously wrong and blind to it was following 9/11 before the Iraq war. Many repeatedly said this is a bad idea and will mess up the region. they gave their bull**** mypoic rationale and a few years later, they said 'well obviously hindsight's 20/20, who knew, right?'

Pete. many many people arond the world have been saying for a few years now that sowing division is a bad idea. It is not good for a society. Trump deliberatly sets people against others and it encourages hatred and a process of dehumanisation as you see entire groups of people as 'the enemy'. Just like a radical Imam, Trump encouraging hatred is bad. Just as it's the job of all the regular muslim community to discourage and denounce extremists, it's the job of the american political establishment to discourage and denounce extremists, not call them 'fine people', retweet them continually and invite loads of them to the white house.

You can discourage big business, tear up NAFTA, take apart government agencies. You can do all of that WITHOUT repeatedly referring to the open borders threat from the hispanics, Trumps clear racism and far right tendancies, which you deny, will be reflected in racist attacks, which you will deny are linked to him.

This guy and the Christchurch guys are exactly the same as Muslim terrorists. Losers who have gradually been brought around to believing that they are somehow defending their way of life or civilisation.

aloyisious

RTE just reported another overnight shooting by a white man in Dayton, Ohio with 9 dead. Their murderer was also killed. The irony of the El Paso, Texas, shooting being done in a Hispanic-named town originally part of Mexico before the 1846-48 US/Mexico war was obviously lost to the murderer there.

26000 Elephants

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

If anything, this nut seemed to be annoyed by democrat politicians them recently spouting far left rhetoric:

Do you ever stop to think about the things you say? To actually parse your statements for their true meaning?

I urge you to read your above quote again and tell me that that is how you genuinely feel. Bearing in mind the real tragedy here, the loss of over 20 lives.

weisses

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

If anything, this nut seemed to be annoyed by democrat politicians them recently spouting far left rhetoric:

Can you at least give some insight in the mental gymnastics used to reach that conclusion bearing in mind the possible manifest made by the shooter ?

Gbear

You can make a case about the popularity of gun-control laws, but I think it'd be silly to ignore that even if 2/3 are for them, the 1/3 that aren't are probably far more highly predisposed towards violent insurrection and are also heavily armed.

All but the most carefully crafted and low-impact gun control is doomed to fail, IMO, either because it falls afoul of the constitution, or will result in massive push-back from a very dangerous cohort of society.

Mass shootings are a bit like terrorism. Frequently, of course, they are terrorism, but the point is they're attention grabbing, but far less significant than they appear, in terms of frequency and risk posed to the population at large (and yes, I've made this same point in threads about Islamic terrorism in Europe in the past, so don't mistake me for some sort of gun-nut enabler).

There were 45k suicides in the US in 2016, over half of which were gun-related.
There's something like twice as many suicides from guns as there are gun-related murders.
I don't think gun owners are necessarily more likely to try to commit suicide, but they're far more likely to succeed.

A bit like the drug problem, I suspect there's a lot more to be done on the non-criminal/legislative end of the spectrum. I'd envisage things like having buddy programs where you voluntarily give your guns to a friend for safe keeping if you're being treated for depression.

But for the mass shootings, as with fundamentalist Islam, I think the issue is less about straightforward concrete ideas like gun ownership and more about ideology.

You could make the argument that gun-owning is part of that ideology - self-reliance out in the isolated parts of the country, wild west mentality - but it's only part. The term "Christian Taliban" wasn't coined for no reason. I think the US has a far larger population of extremists than we can relate to in Europe. I think it's more like the Balkans, or the Middle East and, as in the Middle East, it's not just the ones who commit violence, but the nationalist, religious fundamentalist, ethnocentric and/or anti-establishment ethos in communities that create the fertile soil for the perpetrators to emerge.

The Republicans have normalised this more and more. Those state congressmen in Oregon threatening to murder police officers promote this kind of behaviour. Trump, when he dehumanises and delegitimises people of colour, immigrants or the Democrats does as well.

I do think talking about gun control in the wake of these massacres is wrong-headed and pointless. Even if the constitution was amended and disarmament began, it would be generations until the kinds of people who commit these crimes are disarmed. The attack on this must follow the same methodology that can effectively combat Islam. It's not a frontal assault. It's an undermining through democratic representation, improvement in quality of life and education. And for the perpetrators it's attempting to deny them the fruits of martyrdom and a contemptuous dismissal of the value of their actions and ideology.

Christy42

I mean probably the best way to get more funding for research into the mental health reasons for these shootings would be to make a serious effort to ban guns. If Republicans thought there was a serious chance gun laws could get significantly tighter you can guarantee they would have a pretty comprehensive mental health bill on the table in days to try and save the guns.

Till then they won't do anything and just try and deflect from proper gun control. I am sure those in the gun industry will be toasting now as people rush to buy more guns like every big shooting.

Till then thoughts and prayers and all that.

In Texas and still people died. Good people with guns don't stop these things. Life is not Die Hard.

Lolle06

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, thought it might be Trump's fault somehow.

If anything, this nut seemed to be annoyed by democrat politicians them recently spouting far left rhetoric:

Whatever the truth though, the guy was crazy, and suggesting Trump is somehow culpable is abhorrent, but predictable nevertheless.

Are you saying that Donald Trump isn‘t constantly giving out about Democrats and left-rhetoric?
Even going so far as sending non-white looking politicians „back to where they came from“?

And that‘s just one example of his usual rants against politicians/ people that are critical of him!?

What makes you think that Donal Trump’s hate speeches/ tweets have no influence on some of his unhinged followers losing the plot completely?

Instead you once again are trying hard to obfuscate facts, while blaming the Democrats.
As per usual.

And the hate continues.