Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Water John

Well it would have been an uncontrolled situation from the White house POV. If one of the relatives or worse an injured victim verbally confronted him, which was very possible, he would have come out of it very badly.
The image of him throwing kitchen towels still resonates.

PropJoe10

everlast75 wrote: »

Travelling from one mass shooting site to another, *this* is what is foremost in his brain...



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1159177811573166081?s=19


He is a narcissist beyond help, with zero empathy for anyone else and a number of other things i would get carded for calling him on here.

Such a despicable ******

An absolutely loathsome individual. Not really sure what to say other than emphasise again how important it is that this guy is beaten SOUNDLY at the polls next year. Electing him again would be a good step on the road to the destruction of democracy and decency around the world.

MrFresh

everlast75 wrote: »

Travelling from one mass shooting site to another, *this* is what is foremost in his brain...



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1159177811573166081?s=19


He is a narcissist beyond help, with zero empathy for anyone else and a number of other things i would get carded for calling him on here.

Such a despicable ******

Isn't China already pretty happy with their new trading partners?

mcmoustache

PropJoe10 wrote: »

An absolutely loathsome individual.

And yet, some think he's the best thing ever. Even those who didn't even get a Costco membership out of the tax cut.



There must be something else about Trump that I can't quite put my finger on that has people being so vociferous in their support of him.

Outlaw Pete

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Everything about the attack just shows how utterly lacking in any kind of empathy or awareness of others he is.

He's ostensibly travelling to El Paso to console the families of the people murdered a few days ago , killed just for being Hispanic.

His response to Beto O'Rourke is simply staggering in its lack of sensitivity or humanity.

He has a cut off him for having a Hispanic nickname , then has a dig about the relative crowd sizes for their competing political rallies a few months ago and then , utterly lacking in self awareness suggests that O'Rourke should respect the victims and their families and be quiet!!

Lacking "empathy or awareness of others" because of how he has responded to Beto? Are you kidding me?

That sanctimonious liar was trying to use the El Paso shooting to his own advantage within hours of the attack. While the bodies of the dead were still warm he was on TV blaming Trump for the killings and all for political gain. You would think given it's his home town he might have some measure of decency and look past his political career and at least stick to the truth for once.

But no, he wheeled out the same old crap suggesting Trump called all Mexicans rapists and all immigrants animals and here he is repeating the same old lie that liberals just can't seem to help themselves from repeating and doing so, of course, to provide grounds for his disgusting claim that Donald Trump encourages mass murder!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCtkSh2BGCk

This is the crap that truely divides America.

What if there was another messed up individual watching this news report and believed what Beto said, that Trump thinks Neo Nazis are 'fine people' and "encourages" shootings such as these. Far right nut and they could copy cat the shooting given the suggestion that the POTUS would support them doing so. Far left nut and they might even try to take Trump, or a member of his administration, out. I'm sure if this section of my post was quoted with a "If only" reply it would get a rake of backslaps too.

Given the lies this man spouted since the shootings I'm surprised the POTUS has been so reserved as he has quite frankly, as he should be saying far worse.

mcmoustache

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Lacking "empathy or awareness of others" because of how he has responded to Beto? Are you kidding me?

That sanctimonious liar was trying to use the El Paso shooting to his own advantage within hours of the attack. While the bodies of the dead were still warm he was on TV blaming Trump for the killings and all for political gain. You would think given it's his home town he might have some measure of decency and look past his political career and at least stick to the truth for once.

But no, he wheeled out the same old crap suggesting Trump called all Mexicans rapists and all immigrants animals and here he is repeating the same old lie that liberals just can't seem to help themselves from repeating and doing so, of course, to provide grounds for his disgusting claim that Donald Trump encourages mass murder!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCtkSh2BGCk

This is the crap that truely divides America.

What if there was another messed up individual watching this news report and believed what Beto said, that Trump thinks Neo Nazis are 'fine people' and "encourages" shootings such as these. Far right nut and they could copy cat the shooting given the suggestion that the POTUS would support them doing so. Far left nut and they might even try to take Trump, or a member of his administration, out. I'm sure if this section of my post was quoted with a "If only" reply it would get a rake of backslaps too.

Given the lies this man spouted since the shootings I'm surprised the POTUS has been so reserved as he has quite frankly, as he should be saying far worse.

These events that you listed are all on unedited recordings and they show that you are talking out of your arse again. We've seen him and heard him. You trying to pretend that he didn't say the things that he said might work on an worn-down abused partner but it's not going to work on strangers on the internet.

istooptoconcur

mcmoustache wrote: »

And yet, some think he's the best thing ever. Even those who didn't even get a Costco membership out of the tax cut.



There must be something else about Trump that I can't quite put my finger on that has people being so vociferous in their support of him.

My opinion: Right wing opportunism / popularism finds a ready ear among poor persons with low education because the answers offered are the easy ones: It is easier to hate than to love, easier to trust big business than to question your society, easier to go with a trend than stand against it. The left does not seem to appreciate that people of low capacity and / or intelligence are easily confused and have a limited tolerance for difference when pressed (in fact these are universal human traits, but many can over come these limits if not strained).
As an alternative answer I've read online (with diagrams etc.) that public opinion is carefully orchestrated by great wealth (rightist elements of) in a three stage process of perception management, consolidation of exploitable groups and dissent targeting that sort of convinced me to be very suspicious of certain social trends I've encountered (even here). Hope, nevertheless, remains that the majority can ultimately lift themselves above the level of an exploitable mass.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/1159168350301409280?s=19

Again - David Duke aligns his cause with that Trump and of Tucker Carlson, confirmed Presidential Advisor on international diplomacy.

But no - the Republicans aren't racist at all!

PopePalpatine

Tucker wouldn't admit white supremacy is a problem until he either fails a head measurement test or an attempt at a Fourth Reich backfires and has China raising their flags on the ruins of the White House and Capitol Hill.

Midlife

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Lacking "empathy or awareness of others" because of how he has responded to Beto? Are you kidding me?

That sanctimonious liar was trying to use the El Paso shooting to his own advantage within hours of the attack. While the bodies of the dead were still warm he was on TV blaming Trump for the killings and all for political gain. You would think given it's his home town he might have some measure of decency and look past his political career and at least stick to the truth for once.

But no, he wheeled out the same old crap suggesting Trump called all Mexicans rapists and all immigrants animals and here he is repeating the same old lie that liberals just can't seem to help themselves from repeating and doing so, of course, to provide grounds for his disgusting claim that Donald Trump encourages mass murder!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCtkSh2BGCk

This is the crap that truely divides America.

What if there was another messed up individual watching this news report and believed what Beto said, that Trump thinks Neo Nazis are 'fine people' and "encourages" shootings such as these. Far right nut and they could copy cat the shooting given the suggestion that the POTUS would support them doing so. Far left nut and they might even try to take Trump, or a member of his administration, out. I'm sure if this section of my post was quoted with a "If only" reply it would get a rake of backslaps too.

Given the lies this man spouted since the shootings I'm surprised the POTUS has been so reserved as he has quite frankly, as he should be saying far worse.

No,what truly divides a country is when clowns won't accept obvious truths and consider that even a bit of guilt/wrongdoing may be attributed to their side.

You know, the whole 'but but but Obama' response when someone's critical of Trump.


Anyway, it appears that you're still obsessed with the symatics of Trump's 'very fine people' comment. Again in a long winded post, this is the only actualy point you make.

Did you ever think that as president, he should consider his words and how they're interpreted.

I wonder did you argue the same for Clinton after the 'deplorables' comment. Because she didn't call all Trump supporters deplorables. Obviously that's how it was inerpreted but you know, that's her fault. She shouldn't have said it. Maybe you can post all your semantic arguments from that time?

Midlife

Just noticed that r/the donald has been quaranteened for inciting violence.

Forget all the conspiracy theories and islamaphobia on there, it was the comments like 'none of this gets solved without picking up a rifle' and 'no problems shooting a cop trying to strip rights from citizens' that did it.

The resons for the quarantine is that these type of comments weren't being removed and were rather being upvoted.

Interesting that this fringe behaviour comes from people identifying strongly as a group of die hard Trump supporters.

Wondering who's fault this is? CNN, Obama?

Christy42

Midlife wrote: »

Just noticed that r/the donald has been quaranteened for inciting violence.

Forget all the conspiracy theories and islamaphobia on there, it was the comments like 'none of this gets solved without picking up a rifle' and 'no problems shooting a cop trying to strip rights from citizens' that did it.

The resons for the quarantine is that these type of comments weren't being removed and were rather being upvoted.

Interesting that this fringe behaviour comes from people identifying strongly as a group of die hard Trump supporters.

Wondering who's fault this is? CNN, Obama?

That was when state legislators fled the state and one started threatening cops I think. They fled because, well they didn't want to do anything about climate change. Amazing how long ago that seems. People on R/theDonald started joining in and offering to kill cops without receiving sanctions.

I mean we also have a state official in Montana who assaulted a reporter because he couldn't answer a question.

I have also noticed North Korea come up in the news a decent but with missiles so that has not gone as swimmingly as Trump promised after the first meeting.

BonnieSituation

mcmoustache wrote: »

There must be something else about Trump that I can't quite put my finger on that has people being so vociferous in their support of him.

istoopttoconcur made a great point regarding this.

On top of that I would like to add something.

The rallying around Trump and forgiving/ignoring his many many transgressions has all the hallmarks of a "belonging".

It reminds me of flat earthers and I would suggest you have a look at the Netflix documentary on it. It's fascinating look at marginalised (their marginalisation reasons aside) people seeking a belonging.

It should be stated that I'm a GIS analyst and a surveyor by trade, so Flat Earth stuff is anathema to me. But it allowed me to hold back on "debunking" their nonsense (because I inherently knew it was nonsense) and see the sadness and loneliness that they felt like being in a group, even as one as ridiculous as Flat Earthers.

So now back to Trump.

While there is a clear element of people who are just plain racist rallying around a racist, there are others who are clearly being pulled along to just be part of a group that's "winning".

That's how you always have the poor rallying around rightwing parties despite it being completely illogical.

Trump has turned politics into sports. And people like jumping onto the bandwagon of a winning team. And when you live in some **** hole American backwater working 3 jobs for pittance of course you'll go to extremes, because nothing else has worked for you thus far.

I mean, look at Steelers fans and how they ignore Big Ben's transgressions. Or how I ignored Peyton's alleged "antler" use.

We all do it. But normally it isn't to the detriment of the whole planet like this will be.

Instead of castigating Trump Supporters for being "idiots" I think they just need to be asked "why" repeatedly, to the point that they snap out of the stupor that they have wandered into.

PopePalpatine

So much for "blue lives matter". Such deplorable carry-on, but I'm sure they've a shoddy ripoff site ready for them.

Well, either that or that subreddit that preaches the DENNIS system.

MrFresh

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

This is the crap that truely divides America.

I've noticed this line being pushed a lot online over the last week. Very prevalent in Current Affairs forum here too. It's not the president's fault for dividing the country and inciting racial hatred just because he said lots of racist and incendiary things. It's the fault of the Democrats and the main stream media for reporting accurately what he says and commenting on how bad it is. Seems to be almost the entire media strategy at the moment.

Leroy42

OutlayPete, I wonder what role do you think the POTUS plays in America? Is it simply a CEO or a business, or does it cross over into other areas?

Yesterday should have all been about the victims, the 1st responders, the townspeople, the country. But he couldn't let up on the campaigning for even one day. He couldn't take the higher ground, let Biden etc do whatever and spend his time thinking of ways to makes the people he promised to protect safer.

Instead it was all about him. How great a reception he had gotten, how appreciative everyone was of him, how much they loved him.

You complain about Beto, yet Trump is engaged in similar. Yet he is the POTUS, Beto, as Trump has pointed out, is a 1% guy simply looking to channel the angst and despair of the people of his own state.

I have asked this before but never got a reply. Do you think POTUS words have any effect? If you don't then you accept that Trump is useless. If you do then how do you decide which words are taken? And how people interpret them. When he laughs at a rally when a supporter shouts that shooting them is the only answer to illegal immigration, what do you think that means? Again, either the man is simply having a laugh and therefore should be afforded nothing more serious that a comedian, or his words actually matter.

Trump can't be both the best POTUS ever and getting things done whilst at the same time never meaning anything and have nobody ever listen to him. Which is it?

duploelabs

Trump referred to immigrant 'invasion' in 2,000 Facebook ads, but it's Beto O'Rourke that's to blame right?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/05/trump-internet-facebook-ads-racism-immigrant-invasion

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

OutlayPete, I wonder what role do you think the POTUS plays in America? Is it simply a CEO or a business, or does it cross over into other areas?

Yesterday should have all been about the victims, the 1st responders, the townspeople, the country. But he couldn't let up on the campaigning for even one day. He couldn't take the higher ground, let Biden etc do whatever and spend his time thinking of ways to makes the people he promised to protect safer.

Instead it was all about him. How great a reception he had gotten, how appreciative everyone was of him, how much they loved him.

And the underlying and concerning issue is that clearly, Trump is a very insecure and self-centred person. He craves praise, and cannot help himself but react when people criticise him.

If he was a lay person, it wouldn't be much of an issue, apart from to his immediate family and close friends. But he is one of the most powerful men on the planet. Do you not think that he was psycho-analysed in two seconds flat to the point where he can played so easily by those wishing to ingratiate themselves to them, despite what they are really up to?

Conversely, should someone have their proverbial finger on the button when they are so easily riled?

His temperament and mental resolve are extremely worrying. I cannot for the life of me see how anyone at this point in time (nevermind pre 2016) could think he is any way suitable for the role.

peddlelies

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Instead of castigating Trump Supporters for being "idiots" I think they just need to be asked "why" repeatedly, to the point that they snap out of the stupor that they have wandered into.

One of the main reasons Trump won was because of a culture war after 8 years of Pres Obama, peak PC nonsense, anti free speech sentiment, gazillion genders that people must conform to, new wave feminism, white privilege/guilt, postmodernism campus culture, identity politics and so on.

You can probably change their opinions if you try hard enough, but it might take a return of gulags to do so.

MrFresh

Leroy42 wrote: »

OutlayPete, I wonder what role do you think the POTUS plays in America? Is it simply a CEO or a business, or does it cross over into other areas?

Yesterday should have all been about the victims, the 1st responders, the townspeople, the country. But he couldn't let up on the campaigning for even one day. He couldn't take the higher ground, let Biden etc do whatever and spend his time thinking of ways to makes the people he promised to protect safer.

Instead it was all about him. How great a reception he had gotten, how appreciative everyone was of him, how much they loved him.

You complain about Beto, yet Trump is engaged in similar. Yet he is the POTUS, Beto, as Trump has pointed out, is a 1% guy simply looking to channel the angst and despair of the people of his own state.

I have asked this before but never got a reply. Do you think POTUS words have any effect? If you don't then you accept that Trump is useless. If you do then how do you decide which words are taken? And how people interpret them. When he laughs at a rally when a supporter shouts that shooting them is the only answer to illegal immigration, what do you think that means? Again, either the man is simply having a laugh and therefore should be afforded nothing more serious that a comedian, or his words actually matter.

Trump can't be both the best POTUS ever and getting things done whilst at the same time never meaning anything and have nobody ever listen to him. Which is it?

In one of the shooter thread I referred to how the POTUS and Senate leader were actively courting the negative elements. The "both sides" argument was played and to prove it the poster pointed to a post by anti-fa and some Iranian scholar. This seems to be how low they have set the bar for what they expect from Trump and the GOP. They can't compare McConnell to Pelosi or Trump to Biden because there is too much of a gulf between them so they hold Trumps comments up alongside extremists as a demonstration of how not racist he is. In reality, all they are showing is that the best of Trump and the GOP is only marginally better than the worst of the other side.

Leroy42

peddlelies wrote: »

One of the main reasons Trump won was because of a culture war after 8 years of Pres Obama, peak PC nonsense, anti free speech sentiment, gazillion genders that people must conform to, new wave feminism, white privilege/guilt, postmodernism campus culture, identity politics and so on.

You can probably change their opinions if you try hard enough, but it might take a return of gulags to do so.

So basically people wanted to go back to the way things were.

You know, before equality, and rights, and freedom from religious dogma.

What culture war did Obama instigate?
Where has free speech been reduced? If anything the likes of FB and Twitter have increased it.
PC nonsense? Is that another way of saying you don't agree with manners?
Gazillion genders? Kind of goes against your pleas for freedom. Freedom but just not for people you don't understand.
New wave feminism? Sorry but you are going to have to describe what you mean. Seems like a tag with nothing behind it. If you mean things like women standing up for themselves, women not having to be quiet with regard to sexual harassment etc then I find it hard to see what you could have against that. Making everyone feel safe and secure and equal is surely the right thing to do?
white privilege/guilt? The stats back privilege up. The vast amount of wealth in the US is in the hands of white people. And guilt. Well, one needs to have morals in order to have guilt, but if one did then whilst I don't agree hat people should feel guilty about acts carried out by others in the past I do think that we should all be working to better the lives of those living with the effects.

B0jangles

Leroy42 wrote: »

So basically people wanted to go back to the way things were.

You know, before equality, and rights, and freedom from religious dogma.

What culture war did Obama instigate?
Where has free speech been reduced? If anything the likes of FB and Twitter have increased it?
PC nonsense? Is that another way of saying you don't agree with manners?
Gazillion genders? Kinds goes against your pleas for freedom but just not for people you don't understand.
New wave feminism? Sorry but you are going to have to describe what you mean. Seems like a tag with nothing behind it. If you mean things like women standing up for themselves, women not having to be quite with regard to sexual harassment etc then I find it hard to see what you could have against that. Making everyone feel safe and secure and equal is surely the right thing to do?
white privilege/guilt? The stats back privilege up. The vast amount of weatlh in the US is in the hands of white people. And guilt. Well, one needs o have morals in order to have guilt, but is one did then whilst I don't agree hat people should feel guilty about acts carried out by others in the past I do think that we should all be working to better the lives of those living with the effects.

As Rep. Brian Sims said back in 2015 "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

pixelburp

peddlelies wrote: »

One of the main reasons Trump won was because of a culture war after 8 years of Pres Obama, peak PC nonsense, anti free speech sentiment, gazillion genders that people must conform to, new wave feminism, white privilege/guilt, postmodernism campus culture, identity politics and so on.

You can probably change their opinions if you try hard enough, but it might take a return of gulags to do so.

There is probably no single reason Trump how got elected, but I highly doubt those in the Rust Belt, or those with deep hatred / mistrust of Clinton gave 2 damns about gender politics - that argument honestly comes off like projection or Confirmation Bias. This rallying call against PC culture is a canard. Most people outside of internet fora don't care, if it doesn't interrupt their lives.

Boomers and those left behind by the changing economy rowed in behind a promise of a return to industries that no longer exist (see the phantom "clean coal"), coupled with traditional hatred for the Washington "Swamp" from States Rights extremists (it was a literal catchphrase of the trump campaign, the clues were right there between it and "lock her up") which also tied into that growing disenfranchisement.

Trump sold the phantom of 1950s America: not the racism, but the long-gone vapours of when the country WAS top of the heap, beit farming, industry or innovation. If Brexit is the folly dream of Empire long gone, MAGA is the dream of internal status dissipated. The world has caught up with, and in some cases, overtaken the US and this has left much of the country left behind. Enter Trump.

Leroy42

I don't agree. The US is still clearly top of the heap. Trump has not delivered on any of the issues you mentioned (bringing back old industries, draining the swamp).

Given that Trump is given a pass on pretty much anything then I think it only reasonable to think that behind those items is something deeper, something that people really craved but were shy about talking out.

pixelburp

Leroy42 wrote: »

I don't agree. The US is still clearly top of the heap. Trump has not delivered on any of the issues you mentioned (bringing back old industries, draining the swamp).

Given that Trump is given a pass on pretty much anything then I think it only reasonable to think that behind those items is something deeper, something that people really craved but were shy about talking out.

I don't have the stats, but American industry, its economy and standard of living were orders of magnitude larger than the rest of the world in the 50s - for good reason given its economy not only escaped harm by WW2, but was supercharged by it. France, Germany etc had only started their fledging coal and steel treaty to pool resources given the continent was ruined (precursor to the EU), while Britains empire was disintegrating. The US saved the world (see "the greatest generation" nickname), and had an economy on steroids; fundamentally this is where the modern myth of American exceptionalism comes from IMO, as by all accounts they WERE so far ahead of us (Ireland was still barely electrified IIRC).

Yes, American influence still exists - see the tech bubble - but it's nowhere near to the institutional level it existed in the 50s...

As to the pass Trump gets, that's explained by American partisan politics mixed with Sunk Cost Fallacy.

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

I don't agree. The US is still clearly top of the heap. Trump has not delivered on any of the issues you mentioned (bringing back old industries, draining the swamp).

Given that Trump is given a pass on pretty much anything then I think it only reasonable to think that behind those items is something deeper, something that people really craved but were shy about talking out.

The US is still top of the heap but it's wealth distribution is so unequal that the wealthy and the working classes might as well be living in completely different countries. Trump's trick was to disguise a complex global economic shift away from human labour as an attack on the working classes by liberals, the PC establishment (whatever that is), socialists, environmentalists, etc... He is not a dictator. He cannot unilaterally bring back these jobs and he knows it. He was just brazen enough that his rhetoric resonated with enough people in abandoned states so they would vote for him.

Whether or not the same trick will work in 2020 remains to be seen.

PropJoe10

mcmoustache wrote: »

And yet, some think he's the best thing ever. Even those who didn't even get a Costco membership out of the tax cut.



There must be something else about Trump that I can't quite put my finger on that has people being so vociferous in their support of him.

It's the uneducated and totally disenfranchised that support him. On the surface, you can somewhat see the attraction in someone that's constantly "sticking it to The Man" and "calling it as it is".

What these people don't do is even scratch a millimetre below the surface of what Trump says, and even if they do, they're now indoctrinated to believe that Trump is right and his words are being spun by the left-wing media. Trump's greatest gift is his ability to manipulate idiots, and he's definitely very very good at that.

Still find it hard to believe that approx 33% of voters will vote for him in 2020 regardless of what he does, but that's where we are now.

BonnieSituation

B0jangles wrote: »

As Rep. Brian Sims said back in 2015 "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

See Northern Unionists for same

Igotadose

PropJoe10 wrote: »

It's the uneducated and totally disenfranchised that support him.

Far from it. Plenty of relatives and acquaintances in the US (from the US myself) who openly support Trump to this day and are educated and well-to-do.

Also, despite starting life as a Democrat, Trump had an R after his name, that's good enough for a lot of people.

He's white. It's all that mattered, they hated being under Obama even though they did well. Hilary was too closely associated with Obama and that party of minorities.

America is a very racist place, on all sides of the spectrum. Don't underestimate it. Sticking it to brown people thrills them. Trump gives voice to their deepest held feelings.

peddlelies

President Obama beat John McCain 365 to 173 in 2008, and similarly crushed Romney in 2012. For a very racist place, they sure do a bad job of showing it.

How many people do you think out of the entire US conform to white supremacy or neo nazi beliefs? I'm not saying they're insignificant because they are dangerous, but we have to be honest and say it's a tiny minute fringe on the very far right amplified by the media. When that covington kid was plastered all over every news site to score political racism points you have imagine things are very skewed, or the Smollett case even.

Disclaimer : I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying this overall "existential threat" of white supremacy is hugely exaggerated. ( Do disrespect meant to recent gun violence victims ).