Willie Frazer has died

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

I did not make nonsensical statements, so please stop suggesting I did as a way of diverting the subject. Again, we ask you to explain the numerous violent assaults on Frazer by Republicans, including some caught on video ?

We as in you and Mary? Sorry J you're not supplying any links so I don't feel you're taking the conversation seriously enough to engage with.

FrancieBrady

Wonder what Willie would have thought of the motherehip throwing the DUP under the bus on Same Sex Marraige today?
'A Gay IRA plot' no doubt.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I remember Willie posting a video from his CCTV to his FB page of a man on a walking stick walking to his door and the two of them rolling on to the lawn in a 'fight'. (Looked more like the kiss scene in From Here to Eternity tbh! )

Willie was demanding action on it until somebody asked him how come his CCTV was able to follow the action and zoom in. Clearly somebody was there filming it all.

Set-up? You decide.

The video I saw was of a Republican attacking Willie, he was caught on film and I think caught afterwards and appeared in court. Anyway I suppose you will excuse the thousands of death threats his community received as imagined too, and of the 6 close family members of his shot , sure did'nt they deserve it anyway. And the thousands of protestant businesses targeted and bombed during the troubles in border areas, sure they were probably set up too by Willie.

branie2

May he rest in peace

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wonder what Willie would have thought of the motherehip throwing the DUP under the bus on Same Sex Marraige today?
'A Gay IRA plot' no doubt.

I would say he would have been more concerned about the IRA murder of his father and 5 other close relatives, and the ethnic cleansing of many other families, than anything about same sex marriage.
He was a victims campaigner, and highlighted atrocities like when a Republican gang stopped a bus, identified the lone catholic on board told him to run away, and they then shot dead the 10 totally innocent protestants on board the bus.

I do not recall Frazer saying anything about same sex marriage. Or even anything about the many sex scandals in the RCC.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

I would say he would have been more concerned about the IRA murder of his father and 5 other close relatives, and the ethnic cleansing of many other families, than anything about same sex marriage.

I think he'd be more concerned with current events J.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think he'd be more concerned with current events J.

Why? The murder of ones family and friends is surely more important than same sex marriage?

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think he'd be more concerned with current events J.

Funny he only ever appeared on Facebook at time like this. The victims only seemed important when the Taigs were getting uppity.

You can be sure Willie would have been stoking it as we headed towards Brexit.

The simple fact is Willie used his victimhood to agitate on general loyalist/Unionist issues...everything from from the 'fleg' to the 'RA selling horsemeat to unsuspecting Unionists'.

Speak the truth of the dead, not fiction.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Funny he only ever appeared on Facebook at time like this. The victims only seemed important when the Taigs were getting uppity.

.

I never followed him on Facebook. It is creepy how you that has strongly condoned pIRA actions in the past, and who has 20,000 posts defending / excusing Sinn Fein / IRA, would pay attention to a family victim of Republican murders on Facebook on a regular basis.

FrancieBrady

I see, in the absence of any counter to the debate that the 'tell lies about the poster' button has been pressed again.

If the poster telling the lies had taken the time over the years to read widely, to watch the antics of all sides on Facebook and elsewhere perhaps they would be better informed and would not have to lie in order to construct a fantasy narrative about this deceased man.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can be sure Willie would have been stoking it as we headed towards Brexit.

We have been heading towards Brexit for a few years and I do not recall Willie "stoking it" then? The people stoking it would include certain Republicans, who rioted and shot at police lines in Derry.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I see, in the absence of any counter to the debate that the 'tell lies about the poster' button has been pressed again.

If the poster telling the lies had taken the time over the years to read widely, to watch the antics of all sides on Facebook and elsewhere perhaps they would be better informed and would not have to lie in order to construct a fantasy narrative about this deceased man.

Francie, earlier in the thread you said you were leaving the thread and not posting any more on it. Was that another one of your lies?

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Why? The murder of ones family and friends is surely more important than same sex marriage?

No J, normal people tend not to dwell on events that happened decades ago.

E.G

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Francie, earlier in the thread you said you were leaving the thread and not posting any more on it. Was that another one of your lies?

J you can talk. Earlier in your posting career you described yourself as unionist, not unionist, male and female!

FrancieBrady

:D:D Willie's 'considered' opinion on Brexit:

LOYALIST activist Willie Frazer has said those unhappy with the EU referendum result in Northern Ireland should move across the border.

In a bizarre video shot on the border with Co Monaghan and posted on Tuesday evening on social media Mr Frazer urges people here to "get over it" and "get a life" following the UK's decision to leave the EU.

"Anyone that wants to remain within the EU away you go, there's plenty of room across on the other side of the border," he said.

The activist has also suggested that if the EU referendum was to be re-run, then he would like a re-run of the Good Friday Agreement and a referendum bringing back the 'B men' (Ulster Special Constabulary/B Specials) to the border.

"Let me tell you when the B men were on this border there were no IRA men running back and forward," Mr Frazer tells the camera, before going to his car and taking out a Lee-Enfield 303 rifle and posing with the gun.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

J you can talk. Earlier in your posting career you described yourself as unionist, not unionist, male and female!

More lies from the poster. Francie said he would no longer directly engage with Janfebmar on this thread.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

No J, normal people tend not to dwell on events that happened decades ago

Unless its members of their own family? Or bloody Sunday?

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

J you can talk. Earlier in your posting career you described yourself as unionist, not unionist, male and female!

You are thinking of someone else. Maybe Francie, you and davycc (who never posts but often thanks Francies posts) are the same person?

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Unless its members of their own family? Or bloody Sunday?

In some cases J but unlike you or Willie (and Mary) survivors of the Bloody Sunday massacre (at least that's one thing you've condemned) don't respond to news about gay marriage with "what about my dead family members"?

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

don't respond to news about gay marriage with "what about my dead family members"?

I doubt if Frazer said that either. You need to keep comments in context and stop writing more lies.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

In some cases J but unlike you or Willie (and Mary) survivors of the Bloody Sunday massacre (at least that's one thing you've condemned) don't respond to news about gay marriage with "what about my dead family members"?

The refusal to accept that Frazer was not just a 'victims campaigner' but was a loyalist agitator who got himself involved in anything he seen as a threat to his 'Britishness' and who specifically couched his opinion to taunt and enflame, is gas altogether.

A cynic could make the case that he funded his loyalist agitations with Victim Support money.

I wouldn't be bothered to do that to be honest. Willie had a lot of problems and should be left to rest in peace.
The 'poster' here trying to eulogise him for one tiny aspect of what he did while ignoring the much worse damage he did to community relations and peace building, should just give it up and stop exploiting yet another unfortunate victim of the conflict/war.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

you need to keep comments in context and stop writing more lies.

:pac::pac::pac:

Another way of saying he did not need a handgun. 98% of the population would not get a handgun if they applied for one.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:

Because handguns are not available to most of the population. It is not like America. Just as well too. Even davycc, who thanks your posts and Francies posts but never posts himself, would probably agree on that.

FrancieBrady

...and now the end is near...
janfebmar is attacking all the posters, readers in the thread.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Because handguns are not available to most of the population. It is not like America. Just as well too. Even davycc, who thanks your posts and Francies posts but never posts himself, would probably agree on that.

You've previously said you didn't trust the PSNI (not sectarian enough anymore) so this is just another example of that. They didn't give him a handgun because of his terrorist links J. Learn to trust the police now.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

You've previously said you didn't trust the PSNI (not sectarian enough anymore) so this is just another example of that. They didn't give him a handgun because of his terrorist links J. Learn to trust the police now.

Not forgetting that Garda intelligence believed he was a member of the Red Hand Commandos. (Smithwick Tribunal)

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

You've previously said you didn't trust the PSNI (not sectarian enough anymore) .

Rubbish, I never said that. You are confused at best, or else lying again.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Rubbish, I never said that. You are confused at best, or else lying again.

OK so you do trust the PSNI. He is an associate of the UVF. Why have you been on this thread defending associates of terror groups?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not forgetting that Garda intelligence believed he was a member of the Red Hand Commandos. (Smithwick Tribunal)

Rubbish. At the Smithwick tribunal the Gardai were in the dock, and after Frazer has questioned why Garda files had gone missing, ONE of the Gardai under suspicion ( garda Corrigan) retaliated by saying he believed Frazer was a member of red hand commandos. Nobody else thought that, the RHC never had any informers, but Corrigan thought that. The only thing proved at the Smithwich tribunal was that there was collusion between the pira and Gardai, leading to the murder of others.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

OK so you do trust the PSNI. He is an associate of the UVF. Why have you been on this thread defending associates of terror groups?

Deflection...look over there...incoming.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

OK so you do trust the PSNI. He is an associate of the UVF. Why have you been on this thread defending associates of terror groups?

He had associated with someone who was a member of the UVF. Frazer was never a member of the UVF, associate or otherwise.

FrancieBrady

Willie's rejections of allegations made against him now being used by jan. Hilarious.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Willie's rejections of allegations made against him now being used by jan. Hilarious.

What allegations against him? He was praised in recent weeks by everyone from his close friend the first minister of N Ireland, to our tanaiste Simon Coveney.

FrancieBrady

Just a few allegations made against Frazer. Of course he denied them all, and our poster here continues to quote those denials, but has no back up to disprove them.
They are allegations and must be treated as such. To now claim there are no allegations against is just more fantasy land stuff. Using his own dismissal of those allegations as proof that they were wrong is hilarious.

For a brief period after selling his haulage firm Frazer ran "The Spot", a nightclub in Tandragee, County Armagh, which closed down after two Ulster Protestant civilians who had been in the club, Andrew Robb and David McIlwaine, were stabbed to death in February 2000 by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), after one of them had allegedly made derogatory remarks about dead UVF Mid-Ulster Brigade leader Richard Jameson.[10] Frazer was confronted in an interview on BBC Radio Ulster about the murders by the father of one of the victims, Paul McIlwaine. During the Smithwick Tribunal (set up to investigate allegations of collusion in the 1989 Jonesborough ambush) it was alleged by a member of Garda Síochána that Frazer was a part of a loyalist paramilitary group called the Red Hand Commando. Frazer denied the allegations, saying they put his life in danger.

Frazer applied for a licence to hold a firearm for his personal protection and was turned down, a chief inspector said, in part because he was known to associate with loyalist paramilitaries.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

He had associated with someone who was a member of the UVF. Frazer was never a member of the UVF, associate or otherwise.

The court heard that a certificate had been refused because of police intelligence that Mr Frazer had associated with paramilitaries.

So you still don't trust the PSNI. In Northern Ireland it's a big thing to be denied a firearm licences.

For instance here we can see that gun ownership in Northern Ireland is prevalent.

From the article in question:

Several Sinn Fein members, including the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and the party leader Gerry Adams, are thought to hold firearms licences along with their minders.

So Frazer was denied a gun because of links to paramilitary groups and Gerry Adams wasn't. So we can confidently say that Frazer has closer paramilitary links than Adams.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you still don't trust the PSNI. In Northern Ireland it's a big thing to be denied a firearm licences.

For instance here we can see that gun ownership in Northern Ireland is prevalent.

From the article in question:



So Frazer was denied a gun because of links to paramilitary groups and Gerry Adams wasn't. So we can confidently say that Frazer has closer paramilitary links than Adams.

I guess that means more deflection incoming...duck!

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just a few allegations made against Frazer. Of course he denied them all, and our poster here continues to quote those denials, but has no back up to disprove them.
They are allegations and must be treated as such. To now claim there are no allegations against is just more fantasy land stuff. Using his own dismissal of those allegations as proof that they were wrong is hilarious.

I already gave the background as to why the Garda in the tribunal investigating Pira / Garda collusion suggested Frazer may have been a member of red hand commando, after Frazer questioned why garda documents had gone missing. Deflection by Gardai under investigation. Makes no difference , Garda pira collusion was proved to have taken place, while Fraser was not even investigated to be a member of red hand commando, because nobody though he was except Garda Corrigan.

steddyeddy

The funny thing about this is unionism has such a bad name that posters can't even bring themselves to call themselves unionist anymore. It's a dying ideology.

steddyeddy

Anyway I'm glad people like Gerry have firearms. He has no proven links to a paramilitary group, he only had a drink with them once and the great PSNI polic service even thought he was suitable for a firearm license.

FrancieBrady

The poster is totally wrong about the chronology of the evidence given at the Smithwick Tribunal.

In the course of his evidence Owen Corrigan mentioned the intelligence he had about the farm used by the Glenane Gang and mentioned who attended meeting there. It was in the course of giving this evidence that he mentioned Willie Frazer and the Red Hand Commando.

Willie Frazer THEN asked to address the tribunal to refute the allegation and to throw his own allegation into the ring.

It wasn't the other way around.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

Anyway I'm glad people like Gerry have firearms.

Are you sure he has? When he was attacked / shot at during the troubles one day, I do not recall mention of any firearm being used or shown in his defence.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

The funny thing about this is unionism has such a bad name that posters can't even bring themselves to call themselves unionist anymore. .

Unionism got a bad name? You think Republicanism on this island has better?
And as for people who call themselves unionists, they may not be on this thread but over the coming days I would say there will be no shortage of people in certain areas not afraid to call themselves unionists.

FrancieBrady

In Northern Ireland today, 61,144 people currently have firearms certificates. The PSNI couldn't indicate the number of guns those licences legally covered, but in 2006, when there were 58,000 licences, they covered more than 144,000 guns, one for every 12 people in the jurisdiction - double the equivalent in Scotland.

At Stormont, there is a special storeroom for guns deposited by Assembly members and visitors.

Several Sinn Fein members, including the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and the party leader Gerry Adams, are thought to hold firearms licences along with their minders.

'Very few people get gun licences in northern Ireland'...indeed.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Unionism got a bad name? You think Republicanism on this island has better?
And as for people who call themselves unionists, they may not be on this thread but over the coming days I would say there will be no shortage of people in certain areas not afraid to call themselves unionists.

Ridiculous. Another unionist poster on here previously lamented the fact that unionists were always called the bad guys and regressive. He stated this was evidence the fact that unionists on Boards are afraid to admit to being unionist. They go on about unionist values and republicans being bad ect but being too afraid of being seen as a unionist to admit it.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Are you sure he has? When he was attacked / shot at during the troubles one day, I do not recall mention of any firearm being used or shown in his defence.

It's not a matter of me being sure. It's the PSNI who are saying it.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not a matter of me being sure. It's the PSNI who are saying it.

And Willie wasn't deemed fit to have one. Says it all really.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not a matter of me being sure. It's the PSNI who are saying it.

Then if they said that provide a link.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Then if they said that provide a link.

A link already exits J. Read the thread. Why wouldn't he have a firearm anyway? He was never found to be a member of a paramilitary group.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And Willie wasn't deemed fit to have one. Says it all really.

He had for years as far as is known, like many tens of thousands of people who served in the security services had.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

A link already exits J. Read the thread. Why wouldn't he have a firearm anyway? He was never found to be a member of a paramilitary group.

Your link only states a journalist who "thought" Adam's had a firearm. Do try harder.