Non national homeless

Sonny noggs

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Living beside a family who don’t work, possibly Romanian but are all very nice people always smiling and saying hello.
But they are extremely loud, they are subletting an apartment beside me with about 8 or 9 living there including 2 children.
They had all their other friends over the other day all driving lovely BMW’s and Audi’s,
They go begging in the city centre during the day and come home at 11pm. They collect welfare all the time as they were giving out about not being able to get to post office when it was snowing.
They take people’s parking spots and block up the road on a daily basis. The sons are swapping discs between cars and selling bogeys. It’s all happening right beside me.
They appear to have numerous apartments around Dublin and are all connected/subletting.
Every 2nd week there’s new faces. I think they are constantly moving people around illegally so they don’t get deported. They seem to have the system gamed and running like clock work. I could only dream of Driving the BMW they have parked next to me everyday.
When I do have a day off from work the kids are out running around the music is blaring so I sometimes prefer being in work.
In saying all this there is quiet periods but it seems with the good weather they get a bit louder and more in your face. Again they are nice to me but I can see how people get pissed.
I don’t let it effect me because it would drive me up the walls. I rather get on with them and they even helped me one day when the car broke down.

Report them to Revenue and Social Welfare. Do the country a favour.

Jupiter Mulligan

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Have you access to the housing lists? Or any stats or evidence to back that up?
Is it thousands annually? Weekly?
Do you have any evidence? At all?

Stats for 2017 and 2018 are here.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/summary_of_social_housing_assessments_2018_-_key_findings.pdf

Nationality of main applicant on Page 25.

Gatling

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Have you access to the housing lists? Or any stats or evidence to back that up?
Is it thousands annually? Weekly?
Do you have any evidence?

Yes and yes as I already quoted from rebuilding Ireland social housing assessment 2018 which another poster has kindly linked to ,

It's a very interesting read .


Not sure what you link has to do with anything

Blueshoe

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Living beside a family who don’t work, possibly Romanian but are all very nice people always smiling and saying hello.
But they are extremely loud, they are subletting an apartment beside me with about 8 or 9 living there including 2 children.
They had all their other friends over the other day all driving lovely BMW’s and Audi’s,
They go begging in the city centre during the day and come home at 11pm. They collect welfare all the time as they were giving out about not being able to get to post office when it was snowing.
They take people’s parking spots and block up the road on a daily basis. The sons are swapping discs between cars and selling bogeys. It’s all happening right beside me.
They appear to have numerous apartments around Dublin and are all connected/subletting.
Every 2nd week there’s new faces. I think they are constantly moving people around illegally so they don’t get deported. They seem to have the system gamed and running like clock work. I could only dream of Driving the BMW they have parked next to me everyday.
When I do have a day off from work the kids are out running around the music is blaring so I sometimes prefer being in work.
In saying all this there is quiet periods but it seems with the good weather they get a bit louder and more in your face. Again they are nice to me but I can see how people get pissed.
I don’t let it effect me because it would drive me up the walls. I rather get on with them and they even helped me one day when the car broke down.

You need to report them. No point coming on here to complain to be frank about it

banie01

Graces7 wrote: »

I did explain that in my next post. I was not sure how long it is now; I came here from the UK but things have changed since then.

So a year on and you can have habitual residence access to benefits, but not "off the boat"

Even then the Habitual Residence condition can be very restrictive but it is by no means as easy as just serving the time out.
Family connections, time worked and likelihood to work again in the near term are all looked at and some deciding officers can be be quite forthright in telling people go home.

The issue then becomes that it is often better to be homeless, non national and in the charity system even without benefits, than it is to return home.

The homeless charities have a huge part to play in this Debacle and the assignment if INIS officials to those as reported earlier on thread will make significant inroads to the non EU national numbers.

Calhoun

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm off on a tangent here, but sure...

The EU will collapse yet imo and the free travel and especially the loose external borders will be a key factor. There's just too many nations and rivalries, with differing social norms and expectations, and hugely varying economic performance/self-sufficiency for it to work as a political entity in the long term.

It worked in the US (well, sorta!) because everyone considers their American identity as something important and valuable.. Not so in Europe where people will gladly take advantage of the travel and employment opportunities, stuff like trade and online shopping, and so on - but in the end consider themselves no more "European" than an American would.

There's no European identity and no consensus among the people (regardless of what the politicians may want) about what Europe is or should be. National interests will always come first. In Europe, that means the dominance of 2 really, and that doesn't sit well with most of the other members either.

I can see it breaking down with the next major crisis. We're very quick to criticise Brexit and the decisions there, but I think the EU was on the verge a few times over the last decade (things like the enforced and aggressive austerity policies on Greece and even ourselves, or the "come one, come all" immigration policy badly disguised as humanitarian aid) and it wouldn't take much more to push it over.

Indeed the current EU practices and poor policy on immigration in particular is actually building the stick that its beating itself to death with. Open border policies are quite dangerous particularly in Ireland where we don't have the right infrastructure set up legally ect to actually deal with it.

Locally stories like this just give the politicians an our from solving the likes of the homeless issue properly.

Eric Cartman

There is no reason why we shoukd be accomodating foreign citizens who are homeless and not contributing beyond giving them a plane ticket to their home country.

Jupiter Mulligan

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

My father was in the defence forces his whole life.

He then was brought into dept of justice to teach them how to streamline a process.

If he was in the Defence Forces for "his whole life" (having enlisted while in his cradle, presumably) then I assume that he was "brought into the Dept. Of Justice" following his death?

Impressive bit of re-incarnation.

Kivaro

Cedrus wrote: »

If they are homeless, they are hardly riding the system.

Now if they had scored a council house or even a hotel room that they didn't have to pay for, you might have a bitching point.

This is what happens when words like "homeless" are diluted.
There are in reality approximately 200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland. The 10,000 to 11,000 figure that you see homeless "charities" proclaiming are people who are in lodging but do not have their permanent homes a.k.a. forever homes.

Over 20% of the families who are "homeless" in Dublin are non-EU nationals. They are flying into the country or crossing the border and declaring themselves homeless. What happens next is that they are indeed given either hotel rooms or B&B rooms or other housing. They are not paying for these rooms or lodging. We (the tax payer) are paying for these hotel/B&B rooms for these non-EU guests. This is not sustainable.

Why are they coming here in such large numbers?
1. The generous welfare state that we have in Ireland.
2. The Billions of tax-payer money currently promised by the Government to build these forever homes. The non-EU nationals are trying to get in early in order to get one of these homes.
3. The Liberal Left are making it impossible to discuss this issue of non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland and taking advantage of our welfare services. They use another word that is diluted these days; "racists", if we dare ask questions like how many can we afford to take in.

Bigmac1euro

Blueshoe wrote: »

You need to report them. No point coming on here to complain to be frank about it

Not complaining just explaining.

Blueshoe

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/eur-scientific-and-technical-research-reports/future-migration-european-union-future-scenarios-and-tools-stimulate-forward-looking


You ain't seen nothing yet. The executive summary of the report states :

n the long-term, the EU should move beyond the current policy focus on stemming
migration flows. Reflections on a possible future in which the EU will face a shortage
of immigrants of all skill levels should begin by paying close attention to other
countries (such as China) with an ageing population and shrinking workforce that
may strive to become more attractive destinations than the EU. Therefore, new
strategies to attract people will need to be devised with a particular focus on highly-
skilled migrants from third countries.

It is EU policy to increase migration into Europe .

Here are the figures

Asylum seekers and migrants arriving irregularly in higher numbers during the years 2014-2017 have come to
symbolise migration to Europe. Media coverage has strongly contributed to this bias and helped to shift the debate
towards the need to regain control over the borders and away from (a) regular migrants who come to the EU in
an orderly manner and (b) migrants who enter the EU with valid visa, as visa-free travellers or with short-term
permits, but do not leave within 90 days or after their residence permit has expired. In 2016, according to Eurostat,
there were 2.3 million first residence permits issued to non-EU citizens, either for employment reasons (853,000),
family reunion (779,000), or education (695,000). In the same year, 1,204,000 people asked for asylum.

Pkiernan

It will end in war between our home grown scoungers and this new breed of tougher imported scoungers!

I'll watch down with interest from my ivory tower.

Sonny noggs

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

If he was in the Defence Forces for "his whole life" (having enlisted while in his cradle, presumably) then I assume that he was "brought into the Dept. Of Justice" following his death?

Impressive bit of re-incarnation.

Touch of the spoofer from some of those posts alright.

Calhoun

Very funny seeing the "BuT IrIsH PeOpLe" remarks when it comes to immigration, i always think this is the wrong argument to be having. It is designed essentially to shut down any discussion on the topic because apparently we are suppose to have a collective guilt and responsibility for everything we do.

If they immigrated legally then who cares, same goes with people coming to this country if they legally are here and not an economic migrant then we should help them out. If not then they should be sent home ASAP, same would go for Irish living illegally abroad.

Cedrus

Kivaro wrote: »

This is what happens when words like "homeless" are diluted.
There are in reality approximately 200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland. The 10,000 to 11,000 figure that you see homeless "charities" proclaiming are people who are in lodging but do not have their permanent homes a.k.a. forever homes.

Over 20% of the families who are "homeless" in Dublin are non-EU nationals. They are flying into the country or crossing the border and declaring themselves homeless. What happens next is that they are indeed given either hotel rooms or B&B rooms or other housing. They are not paying for these rooms or lodging. We (the tax payer) are paying for these hotel/B&B rooms for these non-EU guests. This is not sustainable.

Why are they coming here in such large numbers?
1. The generous welfare state that we have in Ireland.
2. The Billions of tax-payer money currently promised by the Government to build these forever homes. The non-EU nationals are trying to get in early in order to get one of these homes.
3. The Liberal Left are making it impossible to discuss this issue of non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland and taking advantage of our welfare services. They use another word that is diluted these days; "racists", if we dare ask questions like how many can we afford to take in.

"200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your stats are so obviously "makey uppy" that anything else you say can only be regarded as spoof.
"The Liberal Left"?? would that be Mick the pink shirted developer or the Fine Gael Government sometimes called blueshirts).

NOBODY gets the silken welcome that idiots on here whine about, I have spent most of my life in Ireland, my Father was Irish, I have blood relatives across the country. But because I was born abroad and later worked abroad, on the two occasions when I had to call to the social welfare, I had to prove "Habitual Residence".
This is not something that somebody "just off the boat" can do despite what the gutter press and the "pub politicians" say.

Actually, I'm amazed that the old "Dog Dole" trope hasn't been rolled out yet .

Stop moaning ffs

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

If he was in the Defence Forces for "his whole life" (having enlisted while in his cradle, presumably) then I assume that he was "brought into the Dept. Of Justice" following his death?

Impressive bit of re-incarnation.

A prime example of the stupidity on threads like these. The endles threads like these. Matched by the endless stupidity

Jupiter Mulligan

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

A prime example of the stupidity on threads like these. The endles threads like these. Matched by the endless stupidity

Fair dues to you for coming out with your hands up.

Your readers are entitled to a better quality of post from you and I sincerely hope that you'll now up your game - if you're able to.

Tokyo

Mod:

Can we stop with the sniping all around, please? If you have nothing constructive or debate worthy to add to the thread, consider not posting...

olestoepoke

Kivaro wrote: »

This is what happens when words like "homeless" are diluted.
There are in reality approximately 200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland. The 10,000 to 11,000 figure that you see homeless "charities" proclaiming are people who are in lodging but do not have their permanent homes a.k.a. forever homes.

Over 20% of the families who are "homeless" in Dublin are non-EU nationals. They are flying into the country or crossing the border and declaring themselves homeless. What happens next is that they are indeed given either hotel rooms or B&B rooms or other housing. They are not paying for these rooms or lodging. We (the tax payer) are paying for these hotel/B&B rooms for these non-EU guests. This is not sustainable.

Why are they coming here in such large numbers?
1. The generous welfare state that we have in Ireland.
2. The Billions of tax-payer money currently promised by the Government to build these forever homes. The non-EU nationals are trying to get in early in order to get one of these homes.
3. The Liberal Left are making it impossible to discuss this issue of non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland and taking advantage of our welfare services. They use another word that is diluted these days; "racists", if we dare ask questions like how many can we afford to take in.

Great post

Stop moaning ffs

<SNIP>

Discussing mod action in thread is not allowed. Please contact a mod directly if you wish to discuss further.

dudara

Blueshoe

Kivaro wrote: »

This is what happens when words like "homeless" are diluted.
There are in reality approximately 200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland. The 10,000 to 11,000 figure that you see homeless "charities" proclaiming are people who are in lodging but do not have their permanent homes a.k.a. forever homes.

Over 20% of the families who are "homeless" in Dublin are non-EU nationals. They are flying into the country or crossing the border and declaring themselves homeless. What happens next is that they are indeed given either hotel rooms or B&B rooms or other housing. They are not paying for these rooms or lodging. We (the tax payer) are paying for these hotel/B&B rooms for these non-EU guests. This is not sustainable.

Why are they coming here in such large numbers?
1. The generous welfare state that we have in Ireland.
2. The Billions of tax-payer money currently promised by the Government to build these forever homes. The non-EU nationals are trying to get in early in order to get one of these homes.
3. The Liberal Left are making it impossible to discuss this issue of non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland and taking advantage of our welfare services. They use another word that is diluted these days; "racists", if we dare ask questions like how many can we afford to take in.

That's where you are wrong. It is sustainable. Every week that tax is taken from your paycheck it is going towards sustaining it. The workers of the country are sustaining the situation.
The trade off though is no real money left to put towards anything to improve those taxpayers lives.

There are too many in favour of current policy or just don't care enough for anything to change.

now that we have a more serious forum for these discussions can we lobby for a serious set of definitions

"homeless" means ten different things

Sonny noggs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

now that we have a more serious forum for these discussions can we lobby for a serious set of definitions

"homeless" means ten different things

The current definition of homeless seems to be ‘waiting for the state to provide my forever home to my specification in my location of choice at a massively subsidised low rent (payment of rent optional) for the rest of my life’.

Kivaro

Cedrus wrote: »

"200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your stats are so obviously "makey uppy" that anything else you say can only be regarded as spoof.

Lots of exclamation marks; presumably they mean something.
As of 6 months ago, there were 156 people living rough in our biggest city. The stats are well known and easy to find.

People living without roofs over their heads or sleeping rough are the real homeless of Ireland. Homeless "charities" deem anyone without permanent housing in Ireland as homeless. This definition of homeless is not used in most western countries. The 10K-11K currently claiming homelessness are all being provided for, with all of them having roofs over their heads. Some of these homeless families are/were staying (at tax payer expense) in 4 star hotels in Dublin. If staying in a 4 star hotel is deemed homeless, then we are truly living in the twilight zone.

You were originally trying to claim that non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland are not getting paid accommodation when they declare themselves as soon as they get on our soil. They are. They are not turfed out onto the street. We; well, me and other tax-payers, are paying for their accommodation.

Dravokivich

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Eh. What?

We have call centres supporting languages for all over the world.

Stop moaning ffs

Dravokivich wrote: »

We have call centres supporting languages for all over the world.

You just said they can’t speak English. Again. Ehhh what?

enricoh

56% on homeless list are foreign. What percentage was foreign in 2016 census? 12% iirc.
So foreigners are almost 5 times more likely to be homeless. We are simply getting milked dry.

Endless stuff on rte about the childrens hospital cost over runs. A joke but a once off cost. No mention of this 56% figure and their cost. This is costing billions every year i reckon, between homeless charities, quangos, hotel rooms, direct provision, welfare, medical cards etc etc.

Is any politician at all questioning this? None, that ive heard.

Blueshoe

enricoh wrote: »

56% on homeless list are foreign. What percentage was foreign in 2016 census? 12% iirc.
So foreigners are almost 5 times more likely to be homeless. We are simply getting milked dry.

Endless stuff on rte about the childrens hospital cost over runs. A joke but a once off cost. No mention of this 56% figure and their cost. This is costing billions every year i reckon, between homeless charities, quangos, hotel rooms, direct provision, welfare, medical cards etc etc.

Is any politician at all questioning this? None, that ive heard.

Dublin port were supposed to be hosting a major port industry event. They had to cancel due to findings uncovered by the Sunday independent of massive spending and expenses claims by senior figures.

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-port-axes-plan-to-host-global-shipping-celebration-38264963.html

This country is a circus. The tax payers are the clowns (mugs).

Ha Long Bay

enricoh wrote: »

56% on homeless list are foreign. What percentage was foreign in 2016 census? 12% iirc.
So foreigners are almost 5 times more likely to be homeless. We are simply getting milked dry.

Endless stuff on rte about the childrens hospital cost over runs. A joke but a once off cost. No mention of this 56% figure and their cost. This is costing billions every year i reckon, between homeless charities, quangos, hotel rooms, direct provision, welfare, medical cards etc etc.

Is any politician at all questioning this? None, that ive heard.

Where do you get the statistic that 56% on the homeless list are foreign?

Here are the figures from the 2016 Census.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp5hpi/cp5hpi/nat/

Guy:Incognito

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

€205 a week is no easy living. Trust me on that. It’s bately existing.

Assuming thats the only income they have.........

Stephen15

Anyone who is non-national and homeless or on the housing list should be deported. We have enough of our own to be looking after. If they are homeless they are clearly a burden on our society and the state. The only immigrants that should be here are ones who are working jobs which cannot be fulfilled by the Irish and that would be determined by an Australian style points system.

Omackeral

Stephen15 wrote: »

We have enough of our own to be looking after.

The majority of the people I see posting things like this on social media are the exact type that wouldn't give an Irish homeless person the time of day or 50 cent out of their pocket.

For the record, I'm not disputing the crux of the argument as there's discussion to be had, just offering an observation.

Stephen15

Omackeral wrote: »

The majority of the people I see posting things like this on social media are the exact type that wouldn't give an Irish homeless person the time of day or 50 cent out of their pocket.

It should be government that helps Irish people in need and not left up to the goodwill of citizens

Eric Cartman

Omackeral wrote: »

The majority of the people I see posting things like this on social media are the exact type that wouldn't give an Irish homeless person the time of day or 50 cent out of their pocket.

For the record, I'm not disputing the crux of the argument as there's discussion to be had, just offering an observation.

funnily enough, we already pump well more than enough cash into the system, if current welfare supports werent looking after immigrants then it would free up money for the system to better provide for citizens.

Omackeral

Stephen15 wrote: »

It should be government that helps Irish people in need and not left up to the goodwill of citizens

That's fine. I'm saying a lot of the people feigning concern are often doing it because of an agenda and that they don't actually give a rats about ''our own''.

CollyFlower

What Irish tax payers have a problem with are those that come just to Sponge, to beg, con and steal. They come expecting to be given everything for free, yet contribute nothing. They refuse to integrate into our culture but expect us to accomadate their ways.
We have enough of our own doing the above with importing others.... Why can't the government see this and stamp it out.

ILoveYourVibes

bookerlover wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/we-have-done-nothing-wrong-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-homeless-family-38260238.html

This mother at least trying to work and make an effort. But this story shows the reality behind the homeless figures. 56 percent are non national. This woman and the oldest 2 kids are Moldovan. How are they even here. That's not an EU country. So we have to house educate and medically care for this family of 4 where daddy is no longer on the scene. 2 eldest kids also awaiting hip replacements.

I wonder do these eastern European countries think we are a bunch of eegits. Move to Ireland and hop on the gravy train.

If they were dogs people would care about them.

And no they are not perfect and neither are we. And yeah we are mugs. Shrug so what ? We let them starve and become hard people?

I don't want to be like that.
And maybe they are just nice people going through hard times or emotionally hard times. Who knows.

fritzelly

There's an interesting program on BBC at the moment which is kinda relevant
Who Should Get to Stay in the UK?

Some are absolute chancers, some use the health card, some are well entitled. The law is convoluted as hell

weldoninhio

Del.Monte wrote: »

+100

Everytime I hear about the homeless figures I think of the piece by Paddy O'Gorman, or it could have been his doppelganger on Newstalk, where the plight of two homeless Eastern Europeans living in a tent on a patch of waste ground in Dublin was mentioned as an aside.

The situation is never going to get any better as long as free movement of people around Europe is allowed. This country is like a boat with a hole in it being baled out with a leaky bucket. It could be a mathematical quiz question - if a rowing boat is sinking and the crew bail out a gallon of water per minute but two gallons of water flow through the hole in the bottom of the boat, how long before the boat sinks? However this question cannot be asked because it's racist and doesn't fit with the PC agenda which will sink the 'Europe Project' eventually.

As an EU citizen, if you cannot support yourself after 3 months, you can be repatriated from any country in the EU back to your home country.

Stop moaning ffs

weldoninhio wrote: »

As an EU citizen, if you cannot support yourself after 3 months, you can be repatriated from any country in the EU back to your home country.

I think that’s the fairest system possible.

Jupiter Mulligan

Blueshoe wrote: »

Dublin port were supposed to be hosting a major port industry event. They had to cancel due to findings uncovered by the Sunday independent of massive spending and expenses claims by senior figures.

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-port-axes-plan-to-host-global-shipping-celebration-38264963.html

This country is a circus. The tax payers are the clowns (mugs).

A more intelligent poster would be pleased about the cancellation of this expensive junket - but you prefer to whine about it!

Jupiter Mulligan

weldoninhio wrote: »

As an EU citizen, if you cannot support yourself after 3 months, you can be repatriated from any country in the EU back to your home country.

But, in the Ireland of the handout, what sometimes happens is that an interfering, taxpayer-funded quango seeks an ex parte High Court injunction to prevent this from happening.

Stop moaning ffs

Just wish people got as worked up and engaged on vulture funds ravaging our country rather than homeless and immigrants. It’s a far bigger and far worse situation that actually will affect us all.

Dravokivich

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You just said they can’t speak English. Again. Ehhh what?

English isnt the language we are selling support for from here. Believe it or not.

Stop moaning ffs

Purple monkey dishwasher

enricoh

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Just wish people got as worked up and engaged on vulture funds ravaging our country rather than homeless and immigrants. It’s a far bigger and far worse situation that actually will affect us all.

Start a separate thread so instead of trying whataboutery on this one.

Stop moaning ffs

enricoh wrote: »

Start a separate thread so instead of trying whataboutery on this one.

Maybe. What’s a whataboutery?

Tokyo

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Purple monkey dishwasher

Mod: You're obviously not willing to engage at any articulate level here. So please don't post in this thread again.

Jupiter Mulligan

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Just wish people got as worked up and engaged on vulture funds ravaging our country rather than homeless and immigrants. It’s a far bigger and far worse situation that actually will affect us all.

Mrs. Mulligan and I already own our own home. In what way will these evil so-called "vulture funds" affect us?

Should we buy a burglar alarm or some cloves of garlic?

weldoninhio

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I think that’s the fairest system possible.

Thats the current system. Unfortunately soft touch Ireland doesn't seem to want to implement it.