Non national homeless

dudara

Posters - stop the griping at each other.

dudara

Gatling

flazio wrote: »

So, if we were to start sending non national homeless back to their country of origin, what is likely to happen to them back there?
Is there any hope for humane treatment?
Because I can't sit easy on doing that.

This is one of our issues , people coming here with no way to support themselves and people here demanding we give everyone a house and welfare because it's the right thing to do because of a consence ,
You can't have it both ways at the height of the economic collapse we still had people arriving looking for welfare and housing ,

We have limited resources ,if people can travel here it's safe to say they can travel home or elsewhere

Stop moaning ffs

Sonny noggs wrote: »

You claimed earlier that ‘you can’t bypass immigration to get into the country’. Do you stand over that claim?

If you’re an illegal immigrant in ireland you can’t access social welfare, housing, jobs or anything. If you present as illegal you get placed in direct provision.

If you’re confused about that look up direct provision and how that works.

Noveight

Send ‘em home.

Not our problem.

Gatling

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

If you’re an illegal immigrant in ireland you can’t access social welfare, housing, jobs or anything. If you present as illegal you get placed in direct provision.

If you’re confused about that look up direct provision and how that works.

So explain why there in thousands of non nationals on housing lists and in social housing

Sonny noggs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

If you’re an illegal immigrant in ireland you can’t access social welfare, housing, jobs or anything. If you present as illegal you get placed in direct provision.

If you’re confused about that look up direct provision and how that works.

So are you or are you not standing over your claim. Simple Yes / No will suffice.

Cedrus

bookerlover wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/we-have-done-nothing-wrong-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-homeless-family-38260238.html

This mother at least trying to work and make an effort. But this story shows the reality behind the homeless figures. 56 percent are non national. This woman and the oldest 2 kids are Moldovan. How are they even here. That's not an EU country. So we have to house educate and medically care for this family of 4 where daddy is no longer on the scene. 2 eldest kids also awaiting hip replacements.

I wonder do these eastern European countries think we are a bunch of eegits. Move to Ireland and hop on the gravy train.

If they are homeless, they are hardly riding the system.

Now if they had scored a council house or even a hotel room that they didn't have to pay for, you might have a bitching point.

olestoepoke

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Care to back that up with stats?

I don't want to start grabbing figures out of thin air like 187,000 in a previous post. I think the emigration figures were a lot higher than that from the C.S.O. Almost 50% of those who emigrated left with 3rd level educations according to the C.S.O. This would indicate that they are self sufficient in their new countries. I personally emigrated and spent almost 20 years living and working in the US. From my experience the attitude in the US was that if you don't work you don't eat. Plenty of lazy Irish landed in NY and Chicago when I was there and they lasted a few months at best before they had to leave.

Bigmac1euro

Living beside a family who don’t work, possibly Romanian but are all very nice people always smiling and saying hello.
But they are extremely loud, they are subletting an apartment beside me with about 8 or 9 living there including 2 children.
They had all their other friends over the other day all driving lovely BMW’s and Audi’s,
They go begging in the city centre during the day and come home at 11pm. They collect welfare all the time as they were giving out about not being able to get to post office when it was snowing.
They take people’s parking spots and block up the road on a daily basis. The sons are swapping discs between cars and selling bogeys. It’s all happening right beside me.
They appear to have numerous apartments around Dublin and are all connected/subletting.
Every 2nd week there’s new faces. I think they are constantly moving people around illegally so they don’t get deported. They seem to have the system gamed and running like clock work. I could only dream of Driving the BMW they have parked next to me everyday.
When I do have a day off from work the kids are out running around the music is blaring so I sometimes prefer being in work.
In saying all this there is quiet periods but it seems with the good weather they get a bit louder and more in your face. Again they are nice to me but I can see how people get pissed.
I don’t let it effect me because it would drive me up the walls. I rather get on with them and they even helped me one day when the car broke down.

Stop moaning ffs

Gatling wrote: »

So explain why there in thousands of non nationals on housing lists and in social housing

Have you access to the housing lists? Or any stats or evidence to back that up?
Is it thousands annually? Weekly?
Do you have any evidence? At all?

Have a look at this picture. I won’t tell you the nationality age or family size. Just have a look. Btw applicants for social housing are made to pick three areas. It’s on the forms. You don’t have an option

Just look and have a guess

Sonny noggs

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Living beside a family who don’t work, possibly Romanian but are all very nice people always smiling and saying hello.
But they are extremely loud, they are subletting an apartment beside me with about 8 or 9 living there including 2 children.
They had all their other friends over the other day all driving lovely BMW’s and Audi’s,
They go begging in the city centre during the day and come home at 11pm. They collect welfare all the time as they were giving out about not being able to get to post office when it was snowing.
They take people’s parking spots and block up the road on a daily basis. The sons are swapping discs between cars and selling bogeys. It’s all happening right beside me.
They appear to have numerous apartments around Dublin and are all connected/subletting.
Every 2nd week there’s new faces. I think they are constantly moving people around illegally so they don’t get deported. They seem to have the system gamed and running like clock work. I could only dream of Driving the BMW they have parked next to me everyday.
When I do have a day off from work the kids are out running around the music is blaring so I sometimes prefer being in work.
In saying all this there is quiet periods but it seems with the good weather they get a bit louder and more in your face. Again they are nice to me but I can see how people get pissed.
I don’t let it effect me because it would drive me up the walls. I rather get on with them and they even helped me one day when the car broke down.

Report them to Revenue and Social Welfare. Do the country a favour.

Jupiter Mulligan

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Have you access to the housing lists? Or any stats or evidence to back that up?
Is it thousands annually? Weekly?
Do you have any evidence? At all?

Stats for 2017 and 2018 are here.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/summary_of_social_housing_assessments_2018_-_key_findings.pdf

Nationality of main applicant on Page 25.

Gatling

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Have you access to the housing lists? Or any stats or evidence to back that up?
Is it thousands annually? Weekly?
Do you have any evidence?

Yes and yes as I already quoted from rebuilding Ireland social housing assessment 2018 which another poster has kindly linked to ,

It's a very interesting read .


Not sure what you link has to do with anything

Blueshoe

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Living beside a family who don’t work, possibly Romanian but are all very nice people always smiling and saying hello.
But they are extremely loud, they are subletting an apartment beside me with about 8 or 9 living there including 2 children.
They had all their other friends over the other day all driving lovely BMW’s and Audi’s,
They go begging in the city centre during the day and come home at 11pm. They collect welfare all the time as they were giving out about not being able to get to post office when it was snowing.
They take people’s parking spots and block up the road on a daily basis. The sons are swapping discs between cars and selling bogeys. It’s all happening right beside me.
They appear to have numerous apartments around Dublin and are all connected/subletting.
Every 2nd week there’s new faces. I think they are constantly moving people around illegally so they don’t get deported. They seem to have the system gamed and running like clock work. I could only dream of Driving the BMW they have parked next to me everyday.
When I do have a day off from work the kids are out running around the music is blaring so I sometimes prefer being in work.
In saying all this there is quiet periods but it seems with the good weather they get a bit louder and more in your face. Again they are nice to me but I can see how people get pissed.
I don’t let it effect me because it would drive me up the walls. I rather get on with them and they even helped me one day when the car broke down.

You need to report them. No point coming on here to complain to be frank about it

banie01

Graces7 wrote: »

I did explain that in my next post. I was not sure how long it is now; I came here from the UK but things have changed since then.

So a year on and you can have habitual residence access to benefits, but not "off the boat"

Even then the Habitual Residence condition can be very restrictive but it is by no means as easy as just serving the time out.
Family connections, time worked and likelihood to work again in the near term are all looked at and some deciding officers can be be quite forthright in telling people go home.

The issue then becomes that it is often better to be homeless, non national and in the charity system even without benefits, than it is to return home.

The homeless charities have a huge part to play in this Debacle and the assignment if INIS officials to those as reported earlier on thread will make significant inroads to the non EU national numbers.

Calhoun

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm off on a tangent here, but sure...

The EU will collapse yet imo and the free travel and especially the loose external borders will be a key factor. There's just too many nations and rivalries, with differing social norms and expectations, and hugely varying economic performance/self-sufficiency for it to work as a political entity in the long term.

It worked in the US (well, sorta!) because everyone considers their American identity as something important and valuable.. Not so in Europe where people will gladly take advantage of the travel and employment opportunities, stuff like trade and online shopping, and so on - but in the end consider themselves no more "European" than an American would.

There's no European identity and no consensus among the people (regardless of what the politicians may want) about what Europe is or should be. National interests will always come first. In Europe, that means the dominance of 2 really, and that doesn't sit well with most of the other members either.

I can see it breaking down with the next major crisis. We're very quick to criticise Brexit and the decisions there, but I think the EU was on the verge a few times over the last decade (things like the enforced and aggressive austerity policies on Greece and even ourselves, or the "come one, come all" immigration policy badly disguised as humanitarian aid) and it wouldn't take much more to push it over.

Indeed the current EU practices and poor policy on immigration in particular is actually building the stick that its beating itself to death with. Open border policies are quite dangerous particularly in Ireland where we don't have the right infrastructure set up legally ect to actually deal with it.

Locally stories like this just give the politicians an our from solving the likes of the homeless issue properly.

Eric Cartman

There is no reason why we shoukd be accomodating foreign citizens who are homeless and not contributing beyond giving them a plane ticket to their home country.

Jupiter Mulligan

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

My father was in the defence forces his whole life.

He then was brought into dept of justice to teach them how to streamline a process.

If he was in the Defence Forces for "his whole life" (having enlisted while in his cradle, presumably) then I assume that he was "brought into the Dept. Of Justice" following his death?

Impressive bit of re-incarnation.

Kivaro

Cedrus wrote: »

If they are homeless, they are hardly riding the system.

Now if they had scored a council house or even a hotel room that they didn't have to pay for, you might have a bitching point.

This is what happens when words like "homeless" are diluted.
There are in reality approximately 200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland. The 10,000 to 11,000 figure that you see homeless "charities" proclaiming are people who are in lodging but do not have their permanent homes a.k.a. forever homes.

Over 20% of the families who are "homeless" in Dublin are non-EU nationals. They are flying into the country or crossing the border and declaring themselves homeless. What happens next is that they are indeed given either hotel rooms or B&B rooms or other housing. They are not paying for these rooms or lodging. We (the tax payer) are paying for these hotel/B&B rooms for these non-EU guests. This is not sustainable.

Why are they coming here in such large numbers?
1. The generous welfare state that we have in Ireland.
2. The Billions of tax-payer money currently promised by the Government to build these forever homes. The non-EU nationals are trying to get in early in order to get one of these homes.
3. The Liberal Left are making it impossible to discuss this issue of non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland and taking advantage of our welfare services. They use another word that is diluted these days; "racists", if we dare ask questions like how many can we afford to take in.

Bigmac1euro

Blueshoe wrote: »

You need to report them. No point coming on here to complain to be frank about it

Not complaining just explaining.

Blueshoe

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/eur-scientific-and-technical-research-reports/future-migration-european-union-future-scenarios-and-tools-stimulate-forward-looking


You ain't seen nothing yet. The executive summary of the report states :

n the long-term, the EU should move beyond the current policy focus on stemming
migration flows. Reflections on a possible future in which the EU will face a shortage
of immigrants of all skill levels should begin by paying close attention to other
countries (such as China) with an ageing population and shrinking workforce that
may strive to become more attractive destinations than the EU. Therefore, new
strategies to attract people will need to be devised with a particular focus on highly-
skilled migrants from third countries.

It is EU policy to increase migration into Europe .

Here are the figures

Asylum seekers and migrants arriving irregularly in higher numbers during the years 2014-2017 have come to
symbolise migration to Europe. Media coverage has strongly contributed to this bias and helped to shift the debate
towards the need to regain control over the borders and away from (a) regular migrants who come to the EU in
an orderly manner and (b) migrants who enter the EU with valid visa, as visa-free travellers or with short-term
permits, but do not leave within 90 days or after their residence permit has expired. In 2016, according to Eurostat,
there were 2.3 million first residence permits issued to non-EU citizens, either for employment reasons (853,000),
family reunion (779,000), or education (695,000). In the same year, 1,204,000 people asked for asylum.

Pkiernan

It will end in war between our home grown scoungers and this new breed of tougher imported scoungers!

I'll watch down with interest from my ivory tower.

Sonny noggs

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

If he was in the Defence Forces for "his whole life" (having enlisted while in his cradle, presumably) then I assume that he was "brought into the Dept. Of Justice" following his death?

Impressive bit of re-incarnation.

Touch of the spoofer from some of those posts alright.

Calhoun

Very funny seeing the "BuT IrIsH PeOpLe" remarks when it comes to immigration, i always think this is the wrong argument to be having. It is designed essentially to shut down any discussion on the topic because apparently we are suppose to have a collective guilt and responsibility for everything we do.

If they immigrated legally then who cares, same goes with people coming to this country if they legally are here and not an economic migrant then we should help them out. If not then they should be sent home ASAP, same would go for Irish living illegally abroad.

Cedrus

Kivaro wrote: »

This is what happens when words like "homeless" are diluted.
There are in reality approximately 200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland. The 10,000 to 11,000 figure that you see homeless "charities" proclaiming are people who are in lodging but do not have their permanent homes a.k.a. forever homes.

Over 20% of the families who are "homeless" in Dublin are non-EU nationals. They are flying into the country or crossing the border and declaring themselves homeless. What happens next is that they are indeed given either hotel rooms or B&B rooms or other housing. They are not paying for these rooms or lodging. We (the tax payer) are paying for these hotel/B&B rooms for these non-EU guests. This is not sustainable.

Why are they coming here in such large numbers?
1. The generous welfare state that we have in Ireland.
2. The Billions of tax-payer money currently promised by the Government to build these forever homes. The non-EU nationals are trying to get in early in order to get one of these homes.
3. The Liberal Left are making it impossible to discuss this issue of non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland and taking advantage of our welfare services. They use another word that is diluted these days; "racists", if we dare ask questions like how many can we afford to take in.

"200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your stats are so obviously "makey uppy" that anything else you say can only be regarded as spoof.
"The Liberal Left"?? would that be Mick the pink shirted developer or the Fine Gael Government sometimes called blueshirts).

NOBODY gets the silken welcome that idiots on here whine about, I have spent most of my life in Ireland, my Father was Irish, I have blood relatives across the country. But because I was born abroad and later worked abroad, on the two occasions when I had to call to the social welfare, I had to prove "Habitual Residence".
This is not something that somebody "just off the boat" can do despite what the gutter press and the "pub politicians" say.

Actually, I'm amazed that the old "Dog Dole" trope hasn't been rolled out yet .

Stop moaning ffs

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

If he was in the Defence Forces for "his whole life" (having enlisted while in his cradle, presumably) then I assume that he was "brought into the Dept. Of Justice" following his death?

Impressive bit of re-incarnation.

A prime example of the stupidity on threads like these. The endles threads like these. Matched by the endless stupidity

Jupiter Mulligan

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

A prime example of the stupidity on threads like these. The endles threads like these. Matched by the endless stupidity

Fair dues to you for coming out with your hands up.

Your readers are entitled to a better quality of post from you and I sincerely hope that you'll now up your game - if you're able to.

Tokyo

Mod:

Can we stop with the sniping all around, please? If you have nothing constructive or debate worthy to add to the thread, consider not posting...

olestoepoke

Kivaro wrote: »

This is what happens when words like "homeless" are diluted.
There are in reality approximately 200 - 300 real homeless people in Ireland. The 10,000 to 11,000 figure that you see homeless "charities" proclaiming are people who are in lodging but do not have their permanent homes a.k.a. forever homes.

Over 20% of the families who are "homeless" in Dublin are non-EU nationals. They are flying into the country or crossing the border and declaring themselves homeless. What happens next is that they are indeed given either hotel rooms or B&B rooms or other housing. They are not paying for these rooms or lodging. We (the tax payer) are paying for these hotel/B&B rooms for these non-EU guests. This is not sustainable.

Why are they coming here in such large numbers?
1. The generous welfare state that we have in Ireland.
2. The Billions of tax-payer money currently promised by the Government to build these forever homes. The non-EU nationals are trying to get in early in order to get one of these homes.
3. The Liberal Left are making it impossible to discuss this issue of non-EU nationals arriving in Ireland and taking advantage of our welfare services. They use another word that is diluted these days; "racists", if we dare ask questions like how many can we afford to take in.

Great post

Stop moaning ffs

<SNIP>

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dudara