Cyclists, The Law & What can be done to improve cyclist safety

beauf

Anywhere I've seen cyclist specific lights in Dublin they are ignored.

magicbastarder

there's a set of cyclist specific lights i usually ignore - not too far from where the video at the start of the thread was shot. it's outbound on the rock road; there's an offroad cycle path with cyclist lights, which passes the butler's pantry. largely because i turn right up newtownpark avenue, i stay in the road, rather than veering out from the cycle path to make that turn.

Pinch Flat

So looks like the Idaho stop or the dutch idea of proceeding on red is one solution.

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/cycling-past-red-lights-its-legal-in-the-netherlands/

Could work for motorists as well.

Chips Lovell

Weepsie

Hands up, I broke a red this morning. It was leaving my estate, and if I'm on my Carbon road bike, it does not seem to trigger the coil whatsoever. I'm assuming the dynamo or steel frame of the other bikes I have does something. It's a PITA.

Budawanny

Weepsie wrote: »

Hands up, I broke a red this morning. It was leaving my estate, and if I'm on my Carbon road bike, it does not seem to trigger the coil whatsoever. I'm assuming the dynamo or steel frame of the other bikes I have does something. It's a PITA.

yeah its an induction loop sensor and carbon bikes often don't contain enough metal to complete the loop ( they sensors usually can be calibrated and often are only calibrated to cars)

beauf

Theres a light on my route thats not triggered by my steel bike either. I assume it a proximity sensor of some sort.

Weepsie

Budawanny wrote: »

yeah its an induction loop sensor and carbon bikes often don't contain enough metal to complete the loop ( they sensors usually can be calibrated and often are only calibrated to cars)

Yup, and it's worse in the summer as there is lower traffic so fewer cars coming behind to trigger it, and I'm more likely to be on that bike. That said, also much less traffic on the road I'd be going onto too so it's generally safe to do so.

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

Theres a light on my route thats not triggered by my steel bike either. I assume it a proximity sensor of some sort.

or maybe just timed and not triggered?
though i guess you wouldn't mention it if it was on a predictable timer.

Tenzor07

I think i'll post up on the Motors forum videos of me driving the car at the speed limit on the M50 and other roads and show how many people motor past me at speed...

After all speed kills, and those who break the posted limits should be prosecuted..

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

or maybe just timed and not triggered?
though i guess you wouldn't mention it if it was on a predictable timer.

Excatly.

I've waited 5 mins out of curiosity and nothing.
Generally by then a car has come, or a Luas and triggered it.

ED E

godtabh wrote: »

Gardai aren't there to pick and chose which laws they enforce.

They are and do.

Thats why we need a municipal police force. AGS will never stoop to doing minor jobs.

Chips Lovell

It's a resourcing issue as much as anything. The size of the Garda Traffic Corps fell from 1,200 to 700 during the recession. And there's no sign of it being replenished yet. Last year it was down to 640.

This year, most of the new recruits are going into tackling gangland crime.

beauf

I don't believe that. The lack of enforcement has been ongoing issue long before any recession.

Its both a habitual/cultural thing within the organisation, which goes hand in hand, with the how the judicial system undermines them.

its a system thats broken. How broken is impossible to know due to how the stats are manipulated.

Chips Lovell

Don't get me wrong. Enforcement was never great. But it's gotten noticeably worse since the Traffic Corps was gutted. And it's had an impact. People know now that there's little or no chance of being caught for breaking lights or driving in bus lanes etc.

beauf

its not simply road offences. Burglaries and a whole range of other offences are similarly ignored. I've seen it since the 80's.

I will say it seems to be station dependant. I hear from other people their local station has much better response some of the ones I've had experience of. Like one does not respond or responds many hours later, the other has someone there in a few minutes.

droidus

I think we can all agree that since there seems to be limited resources it is important to prioritise enforcement.

It follows that the clear priority should be around preventing behaviours which are most likely to cause serious injury or loss of life.

These behaviours are primarily dangerous or careless driving, use of mobile devices whilst driving, speeding etc. followed by driving without insurance, tax and so on.

Focussed enforcement in these areas have the most potential to improve the safety of cyclists as well as motorists and pedestrians.

Cyclists breaking lights may occasionally cause an accident and its clearly very annoying for some - but it is so far down the list that it's practically subterranean.

magicbastarder

ED E wrote: »

They are and do.

Thats why we need a municipal police force. AGS will never stoop to doing minor jobs.

i mentioned here about pointing out a truck with bald tyres to a garda, in full knowledge that if i'd pointed out it was parked half on a footpath, he'd have disregarded it.
parking on footpaths is so endemic in this city that people feel entitled to do so, and would moan incredibly if they were prevented from doing so. but it's illegal.

beauf

droidus wrote: »

...
Focused enforcement in these areas have the most potential to improve the safety of cyclists as well as motorists and pedestrians....

Things aren't always logical.

If you wear a helmet and safety gear cars drive closer to you.

If you have L plate up, people have less patience with you.

droidus

Sure, but generally, focussed enforcement deters the behaviour you want to decrease.

odyssey06

droidus wrote: »

Sure, but generally, focussed enforcement deters the behaviour you want to decrease.

Focused enforcement or actual enforcement?

Focus is one thing but at the moment the difference seems to be between what actually ever gets enforced and what doesn't.
Focused enforcement is directing specific\extra resources or time on particular offences.

If the thing happens right in front of you, enforce the law.

AndrewJRenko

droidus wrote: »

Sure, but generally, focussed enforcement deters the behaviour you want to decrease.

Great, so let's focus enforcement on the motorists who kill 2 or 3 people each week on the roads and maim many more. That would actually save lives.

droidus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Great, so let's focus enforcement on the motorists who kill 2 or 3 people each week on the roads and maim many more. That would actually save lives.

Exactly my point. Focus on the behaviour that kills and mains.

Chips Lovell

The little enforcement there is is already focused on motorists. While you'd fairly regularly see speed cameras and drink driving check points, it's only once in a blue moon you'll see a Garda stopping cyclists.

beauf

droidus wrote: »

Sure, but generally, focussed enforcement deters the behaviour you want to decrease.

Then we should focus on the lack of enforcement....

Because thats the direct cause of whats happening...

beauf

Chips Lovell wrote: »

The little enforcement there is is already focused on motorists. While you'd fairly regularly see speed cameras and drink driving check points, it's only once in a blue moon you'll see a Garda stopping cyclists.

I don't see this fairly regularly. I see it very rarely.

Chips Lovell

beauf wrote: »

I don't see this fairly regularly. I see it very rarely.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you. Put it this way. Can we agree though that you're far more likely to see Gardai enforcing speed or drink driving than you are to see them tackling errant cyclists or pedestrians?

Fian

godtabh wrote: »

What does a mod of the Physics form got to do with it?

I don't really like to answer for the poster you are directing this question at but I assumed it meant you would obviously be aware that

momentum = mass*velocity

and that consequently the bicycle passing through a red light is a different order magnitude of danger to other road users than a car.

Macy0161

While the media focus was on body worn cameras, the proposed legislation that this was included also includes greater use of ANPR.

Probably a forlorn hope that so much of the regular law breaking we see on the roads (e.g. Red Lights, Bus Lanes, Illegal turns, yellow boxes etc) that could be enforced by camera, will be. I say forlorn, as even the stuff they can clearly legally do such as speeding isn't as widespread as it could or should be.

blackwhite

magicbastarder wrote: »

i mentioned here about pointing out a truck with bald tyres to a garda, in full knowledge that if i'd pointed out it was parked half on a footpath, he'd have disregarded it.
parking on footpaths is so endemic in this city that people feel entitled to do so, and would moan incredibly if they were prevented from doing so. but it's illegal.

My commute home takes me along the Dodder to Ballsbridge. On the night of Fleetwood Mac concert, there was a Garda manning a barrier at the corner of Beatty's Ave and Merrion Rd - I assume blocking the road to prevent non-residents from using it for parking.
Had to dismount to wait for him to move it out of the way, and whilst waiting I pointed out the 4 Star Pizza jeep approx. 3 metres away from him with the driver on the phone.
His response was "I wasn't sent out for traffic offences today"

Sums up enforcement in general (towards all modes of transport)