Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

Muahahaha

Gatling wrote: »

The HK police have zero control

The protestors were using pop up protest tactics on Saturday in several locations across Hong Kong. They vastly outnumber the police so can use these tactics to stretch them and keep them guessing. Once they deal with one protest another one pops up somewhere else to replace it. Which makes me think the only way the police can prevent this is by shutting down the internet and mobile data. I wonder how much longer Beijing is going to sit back here, I would have thought they would have sent in the PLA by now but as they havent it feels like they are a bit stumped on what to do next. A violent and bloody crackdown could result in a full scale revolution. It is a real tightrope situation there at the moment.

ilkhanid

greencap wrote: »

Not of the actions but of the right to choose for themselves.

Who is doing the choosing? Bashir, Mugabe and the rest of the kleptocratic thugs or the ordinary people batoned off the streets, dragged out of their homes in the small hours to be tortured or imprisoned, shot down in droves when they came out to protest?

greencap

ilkhanid wrote: »

Who is doing the choosing? Bashir, Mugabe and the rest of the kleptocratic thugs or the ordinary people batoned off the streets, dragged out of their homes in the small hours to be tortured or imprisoned, shot down in droves when they came out to protest?

Theres no case for statehood in HK.
(and even if there was it would disappear in 2047)

Yet their protests are claiming that they should be treated in a different way to the rest of the people of China.
By all means protest the many flaws and corruptions of the CPC but dont go thinking you can carve out your own little fiefdom on the back of colonial history.

Protest it as an internal matter for the Chinese people.
No claiming your own little patch because youre used to it.

Overheal

greencap wrote: »

Theres no case for statehood in HK.
(and even if there was it would disappear in 2047)

Yet their protests are claiming that they should be treated in a different way to the rest of the people of China.
By all means protest the many flaws and corruptions of the CPC but dont go thinking you can carve out your own little fiefdom on the back of colonial history.

Protest it as an internal matter for the Chinese people.
No claiming your own little patch because youre used to it.

It sounds like you’re not well received in the North - or Texas :pac:

greencap

Overheal wrote: »

It sounds like you’re not well received in the North - or Texas :pac:

Yorktown is more my scene.

joseywhales

greencap wrote: »

Theres no case for statehood in HK.
(and even if there was it would disappear in 2047)

Yet their protests are claiming that they should be treated in a different way to the rest of the people of China.
By all means protest the many flaws and corruptions of the CPC but dont go thinking you can carve out your own little fiefdom on the back of colonial history.

Protest it as an internal matter for the Chinese people.
No claiming your own little patch because youre used to it.

Who has the right to claim sovereignty? Only already existing sovereign nations? What makes one territory legitimate and another not? Surely the only answer is the will of the majority of people who live in the territory. What right has china or any other country to enforce sovereignty over people who do not want it?

The history, colonial or otherwise is irrelevant, what matters is what the current state is and if the majority of people in that territory do not wish to be governed by a group they can try to change that. They might well fail to change it but it doesn't mean they don't have a legitimate right to fight to change it.

Being in the powerful position does not make one's claim more legitimate.

greencap

joseywhales wrote: »

Who has the right to claim sovereignty? Only already existing sovereign nations? What makes one territory legitimate and another not? Surely the only answer is the will of the majority of people who live in the territory. What right has china or any other country to enforce sovereignty over people who do not want it?

The history, colonial or otherwise is irrelevant, what matters is what the current state is and if the majority of people in that territory do not wish to be governed by a group they can try to change that. They might well fail to change it but it doesn't mean they don't have a legitimate right to fight to change it.

Being in the powerful position does not make one's claim more legitimate.

Well if you go by the will of the majority of people who live in a territory then why stop at the regional level??
Why not the postcode level, the street level, the individual house level.

There are minority dominated areas throughout the UK, does that mean the breakaway Islamic republic of south Bradford is a legitimate claim to nation status?

I mean they do have the will of the people, except for main street which is Hindu majority and so therefore we can expect an Indian overseas territory by your rules.

Why are you drawing a line around HK and saying 'this bit is different' what happens to the pro-China people speckled around the place, are you just going to enforce sovereignty over people who dont want it.

And what happens when 2047 rolls around? Are you just going to deny China the (full legislative) return of its territory as previously agreed? In a document with the title of ONE country two systems.

That word again, ONE.

dwayneshintzy

What about the sidelining of Cantonese culture across Guangdong..... Is that something Hong Kong will just need to put up with as well?

The Cantonese culture in Hong Kong IS different to Mainland China; the language, writing, customs, attitudes. And once again, it's a popular movement at the minute. Bit rich to hear people out in Ireland telling Hong Kong citizens how they should feel about their own place in life, and why they're wrong to believe everything they do. The lads in Ireland (who've never been to HK) obviously know best.

pauldla

Sorry to interject and it's a little bit off-topic, but Chinawatchers might be interested in this reading list compiled by Supchina. I've only read about 7 or 8 of them...

https://supchina.com/2019/08/27/the-supchina-book-list/

greencap

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

What about the sidelining of Cantonese culture across Guangdong..... Is that something Hong Kong will just need to put up with as well?

The Cantonese culture in Hong Kong IS different to Mainland China; the language, writing, customs, attitudes. And once again, it's a popular movement at the minute. Bit rich to hear people out in Ireland telling Hong Kong citizens how they should feel about their own place in life, and why they're wrong to believe everything they do. The lads in Ireland (who've never been to HK) obviously know best.

Many other regions of this one country had to adopt Mandarin, greater national interest. There are many regional cultures, they havent been wiped out. Theyve kept their customs and ""attitudes"" (whatever tf thats supposed to mean).

Kind of rich thinking you know better than the majority of people in China.

Gatling

Apparently over night Chinese military forces moved across the border into Hong Kong , which the Chinese are saying it's part of a normal military rotation

igCorcaigh

Gatling wrote: »

Apparently over night Chinese military forces moved across the border into Hong Kong , which the Chinese are saying it's part of a normal military rotation

Getting ready for Saturday.

dwayneshintzy

greencap wrote: »

Many other regions of this one country had to adopt Mandarin, greater national interest. There are many regional cultures, they havent been wiped out. Theyve kept their customs and ""attitudes"" (whatever tf thats supposed to mean).

Kind of rich thinking you know better than the majority of people in China.

Maybe you'd have to actually visit Hong Kong, or have some experience speaking to Hong Kong citizens, to know how their "attitude" differs to that of much of mainland China.

Cantonese is being phased out in Guangzhou, it's almost non-existent in Shenzhen. In Ireland, I consider Irish to be an incredibly important part of our national identity. Do you support what the British did to the Irish language?

I didn't say I know better than mainland China, in relation to HK. I said that HK citizens know better.

greencap

Gatling wrote: »

Apparently over night Chinese military forces moved across the border into Hong Kong , which the Chinese are saying it's part of a normal military rotation

China has a permanent barracks in HK. Theyre in that part of China all the time, naturally. Being that its Chinese soverign territory.

Gatling

greencap wrote: »

Being that its Chinese soverign territory.

It seems the citizens of Hong Kong might not agree with ya

greencap

Gatling wrote: »

It seems the citizens of Hong Kong might not agree with ya

but what of the minority in HK who agree with me?


are they to be 'sidelined' by the majority?

??????

Gatling

greencap wrote: »

but what of the minority in HK who agree with me

I've yet to see them .

Other than Chinese Police

greencap

Gatling wrote: »

I've yet to see them .

Other than Chinese Police

oh. right.


Must not exist then.

ILoveYourVibes

greencap wrote: »

but what of the minority in HK who agree with me?


are they to be 'sidelined' by the majority?

??????

No one in Hong Kong agrees with you.

ILoveYourVibes

They are calling them 'Be Like Water' Protests.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/30/hong-kongs-be-water-protests-leaves-china-casting-about-for-an-enemy

Bruce Lee was a Hong Konger.

it is a leaderless movement that has assumed as one of its recognisable slogans Bruce Lee’s motto of “being water”: adaptable, and mobile.

They have shown such valor.

greencap

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No one in Hong Kong agrees with you.

So literally every person in HK disagrees with me?

lol. ok .

fat zombie

The media in the west keeps pushing the evil white man trope, the west needs to step aside and let the Chinese lead the world into the next century.


You are getting a glimpse of what such a world would look like , be careful who you vote for!

ILoveYourVibes

The media in the west keeps pushing the evil white man trope, the west needs to step aside and let the Chinese lead the world into the next century

The media keeps pushing the soft asian man trope. Its why people think it will blow over and people in Hong Kong are under estimated. Balls of STEEL.

They invented that stuff Conor Mcgregor plays at. Bruce Lee is is the spirit of Hong kong. Fast ever changing amazing and they have a lot of emotional endurance.

So literally every person in HK disagrees with me?

Not just Hong Kong. Taiwan and Tibet too.

Water made in Hong kong.

greencap

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

T


Not just Hong Kong. Taiwan and Tibet too.

Water made in Hong kong.

Confucius he say 'Exceptional claim require exceptional evidence'.

Yurt2

- Joshua Wong (referenced earlier in the thread) arrested on spurious charges yesterday and subsequently bailed.

- Pro-democracy lawmakers also arrested in a similar fashion.

- Reuters reporting that Carrie Lam moved to fully quash the extradition bill but Beijing refused to allow her.

- Rumours abound that emergency powers last used by the British in the '67 riots will be invoked (irony of ironies), which could mean the curtailment of internet providers and social networks used by protestors.

If this is how Beijing think you can take the sting out of a movement they're thicker than everyone thinks. 1C2S dead as Mao in his mausoleum, and Taiwan looking on further and further down the road of independence.

Nice work 共产党, you sure know how to make a bad situation worse. HK institutions and executive dancing to the tune of Zhongnanhai's (you'll have to Google that again Greencap) fiddle. What a joke they've made of the handover agreement. HK isn't going back into the arms of the mainland any time soon, the people won't forget the last few months no matter how this evolves from here.

greencap

Yurt! wrote: »

If this is how Beijing think you can take the sting out of a movement they're thicker than everyone thinks. 1C2S dead as Mao in his mausoleum, and Taiwan looking on further and further down the road of independence.

Nice work 共产党, you sure know how to make a bad situation worse. HK institutions and executive dancing to the tune of Zhongnanhai's (you'll have to Google that again Greencap) fiddle. What a joke they've made of the handover agreement. HK isn't going back into the arms of the mainland any time soon, the people won't forget the last few months no matter how this evolves from here.

Just for the record, I don't really give a hoot about Taiwan, as far as I can tell they've got a better govt than China.

Or Mao. Or Zhongnanhai. Google my ass.

And yeah, HK will be fully re-integrated. Your idea of 'soon' probably differs from Beijing's quite a bit.

For all you know this could be but the preface for stage 1 of 100, completion scheduled for 2025 or 2035, you know how they do it over there.

Anyway, hope you beat Darwins odds a little longer, and get to see it. Do think of this thread for me.

Yurt2

greencap wrote: »

Just for the record, I don't really give a hoot about Taiwan, as far as I can tell they've got a better govt than China.

Or Mao. Or Zhongnanhai. Google my ass.

And yeah, HK will be fully re-integrated. Your idea of 'soon' probably differs from Beijing's quite a bit.

For all you know this could be but the preface for stage 1 of 100, scheduled for 2025 or 2035, you know how they do it over there.

Anyway, hope you beat Darwins odds a little longer, and get to see it. Do think of this thread for me.

Do you actually have a point beyond 'Brits bad'?

You don't seem to care about anything, just about making nonsensical point after nonsensical point.

Your knowledge of China and Hong Kong: low

I'd say you could do with cracking open a book about Charles Darwin as well, if you could put the Beano down for a a couple of hours.

greencap

Yurt! wrote: »

Do you actually have a point beyond 'Brits bad'?

You don't seem to care about anything, just about making nonsensical point after nonsensical point.

Your knowledge of China and Hong Kong: low

I'd say you could do with cracking open a book about Charles Darwin as well, if you could put the Beano down for a a couple of hours.

Oh, the beano. Oh, my sides.

I know that China wants what belongs to China, and we both know what that means in the short, medium, or long term.

Your hope of anything different: a snowballs chance in hell.

dwayneshintzy

Ah Yurt!, no real point engaging with the attitude displayed in some posts here about the protests. It seems we've got some real edgelords, putting their authoritarian fantasies on full display (usually after a night on the piss, judging by post times). Hard to see what's to be gained by arguing with a Westerner who feels that they know better about Hong Kong than the 8 million odd HK citizens themselves.

But back on topic.......real chance for things to kick off today, with the protests banned from the start. Sai Ying Pun MTR shut already, rumours entire Island line might be closed and both harbour tunnels with lanes being shut for police checks

greencap

Or Westerners who feel they know better than the vast majority of Chinese.

night on the piss i tells ya.