Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

SexBobomb

Ill run some tests and get back to you

Overheal

SexBobomb wrote: »

Ill run some tests and get back to you

You’re blue

SexBobomb

Overheal wrote: »

You’re blue

Brian?

SexBobomb wrote: »

Wait, wait, wait..... I'm not white ?

I think defining culture in terms of melanin level is silly. That was my point.

Irish culture and white culture. Which actually means something?

The Late Late Show

quokula wrote: »

The shooting in El Paso was a targeted attack by a member of the far right on people the far right regularly cite as enemies, with a far right manifesto being published by the killer to coincide with his far right attack, published on a site that has been implicated with the radicalisation of other previous far right mass shooters.

The shooting in Ohio was an attack of unknown motive, made by a person who in the past has retweeted left-leaning tweets such as advocating for the availability of healthcare. Given that one of the victims was his own sister it was likely to be some kind of personal vendetta but the motive is unknown. The twitter account that shows him to be a "leftist" also shows him to be a fan of Anime and Heavy Metal, either of which are just as likely to have driven him to the shooting as being left wing, given that there was no kind of political link to the attack and the victims were not in any way enemies of the left, unlike the indisputably far right mass killing in El Paso.

It's incredibly disturbing to see so many far right wingers try to create some kind of false equivalency to score points, rather than admit that their disgusting ideology drove one of their supporters to kill numerous innocent people purely because of their race, and a lot of media outlets have allowed them to spread this nonsense so people who just take a cursory glance at the headlines actually think there was some kind of political equivalency.

First off, the far right are the biggest terrorist threat both in and out of America. As well as just the doers of these acts, the hate rallies and hate preachers that inspire them are just as guilty as the shooters or bombers.

Be very definite about this: what you say that this is a disgusting ideology is 100% true and I could not agree more. And as much as Americans try to excuse their brand of far right racist fascism and try to differentiate it from the brand of same that the likes of Hitler and ISIS endorsed, they are the exact same. Violent, indiscriminate killers all.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Try and get your facts right before posting.

There was no left wing motive whatsoever for the Dayton shooting.

There was however a far right motive for the El Paso shooting, one which was explicit and published online.

There is no major problem with left-wing terrorism in America, whereas there very much is a major problem with far right terrorism.

The facts very much bear this out.

I am well aware of the far right motive of the El Paso shooting. I know there is no problem with left wing terrorism in America. It is OBVIOUS to anyone that the well organised groups in America like the Tea Party Patriots, Proud Boys, KKK, Patriot Prayer, Westboro Baptist Church, Unite the Right, etc. are all far right who either promote violence or who actually do acts of violence.

I agree there is no major problem with far left-wing terrorism in America. If it does happen, it is isolated, not well organised and very much lone wolf. I get it that this Dayton Ohio person held far left views but that his motives are not clear.

One thing that is very clear is America is addicted to guns and it is not a good environment when guns are so freely available and people can bring them with them into almost most places. Is American democracy dead? This is the question we have to ask ourselves. If American democracy is dying or dead, then we have to ask how can it be fixed?

Politicians and the media have panders to groups that are extreme and have adopted their anti-Iran, anti-Mexican, anti-women, anti-African American, etc. agendas. Hate speech at their rallies suddenly becomes policy. The sad world of identity far right politics leads to more unneeded wars which leads to more far right hatred which leads to societies like The Handmaid's Tale becoming real. There is no guarantee that America itself (rather than Syria, Iraq, etc. who have had such societies borne out of wars) could survive as it does should the far right gain a complete stranglehold over its government.

I hope I am right that we are a long way off of a second American civil war but we cannot rule out this possibility either. The lack of inclusiveness in the rhetoric of current politicians, media commentators, etc. and the labeling of anyone who doesn't fall into line as 'communists' is worrying. This VERY ATTITUDE was once given in opposition to the civil rights movement. It was also the attitude why South Africa justified Apartheid.

Big Brother/Dragon's Den/The Apprentice culture has taken over it would seem. Trashy reality shows where people were and are encouraged to act the nasty part to create 'entertainment' have spilled over into mainstream politics and media it would seem. From 'Vote out the pig' to 'Send her back' and 'Lock her up', there is not much difference.

Overheal

Brian? wrote: »

I think defining culture in terms of melanin level is silly. That was my point.

Irish culture and white culture. Which actually means something?

Let’s clear something up for Irish posters:

A key reason for “black” culture in the US is because of slavery, and the fact that most black Americans can’t trace their ancestry past that point unless their family immigrated later than that. You don’t know if your ancestors came from the African continent or Barbados, Haiti, Jamaica, etc etc etc. - even though eg. The Irish got met with stark racism when they immigrated en masse, they were still treated as Irish or at worst Celts.

Of course we’re at it again now with Latin Americans and stereotyping them all together.

The idea of “white” as a culture, is fundamentally silly, and grossly ignorant.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Brian? wrote: »

I think defining culture in terms of melanin level is silly. That was my point.

Irish culture and white culture. Which actually means something?

Neither really. Now if we were talking about Spanish culture and white culture and which really meant something then I’d go with Spanish. That’s true of most of Europe. Ireland though ain’t got much left that’s unique.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Overheal wrote: »

Of course we’re at it again now with Latin Americans and stereotyping them all together.

The idea of “white” as a culture, is fundamentally silly, and grossly ignorant.

Yes. The use of white in Europe is incorrect. Europeans are whites in the sense that they are mammals, it’s a background classification. Ethnicity is what matters.

However most of us are aware of that and yet “whiteness studies” are being to infiltrate here and it’s not welcome.

As for Hispanics - multi racial but often predominantly European (depending on the country) and culturally Spanish or Portuguese.

The two Hispanic actresses on Brooklyn 99 are considered non white but they are both as white as the driven snow and clearly European.

hill16bhoy

Overheal wrote: »

The idea of “white” as a culture, is fundamentally silly, and grossly ignorant.

I'm not sure why any Irish people would want to assert their pride in being "white", given that white people raped and pillaged our island and its people for centuries.

SexBobomb

Irish people are white though, so to say you should be ashamed or antagonistic to white people is stupid, of course white people were dicks to other white people in history, the Irish aren't exactly innocent themselves, we just didn't get much opportunity because we're a small fry on the world stage.
I just don't understand this stance of anti-white, "We're not white we're Irish" ??
Im proud to be Irish first and foremost but I don't feel bad about being white, thats mad.

Also I know there are Irish people who aren't white but Im speaking in the general and historically.

ohnonotgmail

SexBobomb wrote: »

Irish people are white though, so to say you should be ashamed or antagonistic to white people is stupid, of course white people were dicks to other white people in history, the Irish aren't exactly innocent themselves, we just didn't get much opportunity because we're a small fry on the world stage.
I just don't understand this stance of anti-white, "We're not white we're Irish" ??
Im proud to be Irish first and foremost but I don't feel bad about being white, thats mad.

Also I know there are Irish people who aren't white but Im speaking in the general and historically.

Woo said anything about being anti-white or being ashamed? The only options are not pride and shame.

20Cent

The far right grifter industry are trying to create the image that white supremacists and fascists are not a problem. Simultaneously they hype up antifa violence and try to make out it's a big problem.
They are giving support and cover to nazi types. Andy Ngo is doing the same thing.

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1158896220309512192?s=19

Overheal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Woo said anything about being anti-white or being ashamed? The only options are not pride and shame.

That’s right! I’m white, and ambivalent of it!

p1akuw47h5r3it

https://summit.news/2019/08/07/dayton-mass-shooter-attended-antifa-rally-armed-with-gun-similar-to-one-used-in-massacre/

https://www.whio.com/news/local/just-dayton-shooter-was-armed-counter-protester-klux-klan-rally/OjUttVmHRpmBGqHNRGXyoL/

Dodgy group full of dodgy people. Not much better than those vile white-nationalists they claim to hate so much.

Billy Mays

DanDan6592 wrote: »

https://summit.news/2019/08/07/dayton-mass-shooter-attended-antifa-rally-armed-with-gun-similar-to-one-used-in-massacre/

Dodgy group full of dodgy people. Not much better than those vile white-nationalists they claim to hate so much.

Stopped reading at "Paul Joseph Watson"

p1akuw47h5r3it

Billy Mays wrote: »

Stopped reading at "Paul Joseph Watson"

Fair enough. I added in the original source too though.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

The far right grifter industry are trying to create the image that white supremacists and fascists are not a problem. Simultaneously they hype up antifa violence and try to make out it's a big problem.
They are giving support and cover to nazi types. Andy Ngo is doing the same thing.

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1158896220309512192?s=19

Quite silly to say such a thing after this and other events. It's quite clear that White-nationalism is Americas biggest terrorist threat. I believe the FBI said as much a while ago (though it may have also been MI5 talking about Britain, I can't remember).

In saying that, I do believe the leftist media overstate the number and power of these groups in order to portray America as this huge racist country that's awful for minorities to live in, which isn't true.

Midlife

DanDan6592 wrote: »

https://summit.news/2019/08/07/dayton-mass-shooter-attended-antifa-rally-armed-with-gun-similar-to-one-used-in-massacre/

https://www.whio.com/news/local/just-dayton-shooter-was-armed-counter-protester-klux-klan-rally/OjUttVmHRpmBGqHNRGXyoL/

Dodgy group full of dodgy people. Not much better than those vile white-nationalists they claim to hate so much.

'I'm just going to put on a balaclava and bring my semi-automatic assault weapon to this demonstration'

What the **** is wrong with the country that that's not considered a problem?

Chris_Heilong

20Cent wrote: »

The far right grifter industry are trying to create the image that white supremacists and fascists are not a problem. Simultaneously they hype up antifa violence and try to make out it's a big problem.
They are giving support and cover to nazi types. Andy Ngo is doing the same thing.

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1158896220309512192?s=19

white supremacists is not really a thing anyone has to worry about, a small fringe with no power, the people on the right in America are not white supremacists. Trump is not a white supremacist. Nobody called Trump racist until he was up for president, then they thought he would never win because they were in a bubble and did not know what other people were really thinking, then when he won they just assumed he must have cheated with Russias help or all his voters are white supremacists, all the Black, Jewish, hispanic trump supporting white supremacists. Many on the left have been radicalised by the media who know what they are saying is not true but they do not care about the consequences because in the left wing medias minds this is war.

Overheal

Montana man (white) assaults 13 year old boy by slamming him to the ground for not taking his hat off during the national anthem at a rodeo. Said ‘he had every right to do it,’ because it was being disrespectful. The child was airlifted to hospital where he bled out of his ears for 6 hours and had been seizing, he was treated for skull fractures.

Curt James Brockway, 39, is in custody. He previously was convicted of assault with a weapon in 2010 and released on a 10 year suspended sentence.

But no it’s Antifa you need to worry about.

20Cent

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

white supremacists is not really a thing anyone has to worry about, a small fringe with no power, the people on the right in America are not white supremacists. Trump is not a white supremacist. Nobody called Trump racist until he was up for president, then they thought he would never win because they were in a bubble and did not know what other people were really thinking, then when he won they just assumed he must have cheated with Russias help or all his voters are white supremacists, all the Black, Jewish, hispanic trump supporting white supremacists. Many on the left have been radicalised by the media who know what they are saying is not true but they do not care about the consequences because in the left wing medias minds this is war.

Trump was recognised as a racist long before he ran for president. I'd say the people of El Paso would disagree about having nothing to worry about.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Midlife wrote: »

'I'm just going to put on a balaclava and bring my semi-automatic assault weapon to this demonstration'

What the **** is wrong with the country that that's not considered a problem?

It's pathetic aswell, walking around with a rifle thinking you're a tough guy.

Overheal

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It's pathetic aswell, walking around with a rifle thinking you're a tough guy.

What’s great is the same people that do this (eg. Tea Party, Ted Bundy gang) would have a sh*tfit if Antifa were demonstrating with open carry.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Overheal wrote: »

Montana man (white) assaults 13 year old boy by slamming him to the ground for not taking his hat off during the national anthem at a rodeo. Said ‘he had every right to do it,’ because it was being disrespectful. The child was airlifted to hospital where he bled out of his ears for 6 hours and had been seizing, he was treated for skull fractures.

Curt James Brockway, 39, is in custody. He previously was convicted of assault with a weapon in 2010 and released on a 10 year suspended sentence.

But no it’s Antifa you need to worry about.

Whataboutery at its finest.

Hell be back to prison so, and good riddance. Tis quite possible to worry about both "sides". I dislike all forms of extremism.

Overheal

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Whataboutery at its finest.

Hell be back to prison so, and good riddance. Tis quite possible to worry about both "sides". I dislike all forms of extremism.

Lol the entire thesis of this thread is whataboutery in service of deflecting from alt-right violence so don’t gimme that.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Overheal wrote: »

What’s great is the same people that do this (eg. Tea Party, Ted Bundy gang) would have a sh*tfit if Antifa were demonstrating with open carry.

Absolutely. They'll also bang on about free speech but "disrespect" the flag or anthem and you're getting body slammed.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Overheal wrote: »

Lol the entire thesis of this thread is whataboutery in service of deflecting from alt-right violence so don’t gimme that.

I'd disagree. The thesis is about left-wing violence (anti-fa) full stop.

The Late Late Show

Overheal wrote: »

Let’s clear something up for Irish posters:

A key reason for “black” culture in the US is because of slavery, and the fact that most black Americans can’t trace their ancestry past that point unless their family immigrated later than that. You don’t know if your ancestors came from the African continent or Barbados, Haiti, Jamaica, etc etc etc. - even though eg. The Irish got met with stark racism when they immigrated en masse, they were still treated as Irish or at worst Celts.

Of course we’re at it again now with Latin Americans and stereotyping them all together.

The idea of “white” as a culture, is fundamentally silly, and grossly ignorant.

All racist related nationalism and especially white nationalism is very skewed and warped. For example, people of Spanish extraction in Spain are firmly included in white culture but not those in Mexico according to racist Americans. The exclusion of Iranian people who are most definitely white from the white club is more of the selectiveness. Others try and narrow it down to 'Anglo Saxon' culture which in America includes Irish-Americans, Scots-Irish, etc. as well as Americans of English extraction.

In Europe, the definition of 'white' often equates to not being Muslim to extremist groups. In some places, one type of white is considered more desirable than another. Often, you will see the modern spin on racism is racism by 2 of a kind against each other. Think Northern Ireland 1969-98 or Milosevic's Yugoslavia. You can also get someone of a type turn against a type. One of the most outspoken opponents of Hispanic American immigrants happens to be Ted Cruz who also happens to be from the very background his brand of politics is most against.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Overheal wrote: »

Montana man (white) assaults 13 year old boy by slamming him to the ground for not taking his hat off during the national anthem at a rodeo. Said ‘he had every right to do it,’ because it was being disrespectful. The child was airlifted to hospital where he bled out of his ears for 6 hours and had been seizing, he was treated for skull fractures.

Curt James Brockway, 39, is in custody. He previously was convicted of assault with a weapon in 2010 and released on a 10 year suspended sentence.

But no it’s Antifa you need to worry about.

Pointless whataboutery there.

What that man done is clearly wrong and despicable. I wonder can you condemn violence caused by Antifa though?

Probably not.

snowblind

Ironicname wrote: »

Well that's a silly post.



The American proud boys (not aware of any over this way) accept people of all nationalities and religions. The guy who founded it is married to a native American and has non white children. You seem to be talking out of your bottom.


...as long as everyone agrees to be compliant.

That's a little fascist.

Compliant to not killing minorities, boohoo too much to ask from nazis.