Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Danzy

Blueshoe wrote: »

Now what will you say?

Resort to anti semitism.

20Cent

Blueshoe wrote: »

Now what will you say?

One thing no one is accusing these guys of is being intelligent.

SnakePlissken

20Cent wrote: »

One thing no one is accusing these guys of is being intelligent.

One who suggests the Asian American founder of Patriot Prayers is a white supremacist as you have done can hardly critique others intelligence.

20Cent

SnakePlissken wrote: »

One who suggests the Asian American founder of Patriot Prayers is a white supremacist as you have done can hardly critique others intelligence.

Never said that he's a white supremacist.
Said he facilitates them and has them at his events.
This is true.

Varik

20Cent wrote: »

Never said that he's a white supremacist.
Said he facilitates them and has them at his events.
This is true.

So he's not a white supremacist he just runs an organisation that is.

20Cent

Varik wrote: »

So he's not a white supremacist he just runs an organisation that is.

Said he facilitates them and has them at his events.

Kimsang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4u1zo6OpQ

Andy Ngo, in conversation with Brett Weinstein, opens up about the recent attack.



Bret is a great exemplar of someone who is on the reasonable left and against social justice culture. He is one of the few leftists who can hold a conversation without becoming hysterical, dogmatic, completely divorced from science or violent.

"Its much easier to attack and break down a person, then it is to attack and break down ideas"-Ngo

"The purpose of the attacks was to stop anyone from documenting the events"-Ngo

SnakePlissken

20Cent wrote: »

Patriot prayer organised it. It's well established they are a far right white nationalist

20Cent wrote: »

As you acknowledge he brings racists, white supremacists.

Kimsang wrote: »

You are the perfect illustration as to why Antifa and its acolytes are seen as such a joke, behind the violence and rhetoric there is no substance, no nobility, it's just a gang of scrawny thugs who want to argue and harass as it's the only outlet they have that makes them feel they have a voice.

Case in point, you don't like Patriot Prayer, this is fine, neither do I in particular, but instead of listing factual reasons as to the source of your disdain, stating a person of colour is a white nationalist who advocates white supremacy is so obviously stupid it shines a light on your most dangerous agenda and the most used tactic of The Far Left; "If I disagree with you I'm going to maliciously label you a racist... so you better not disagree with me"

ive read a bit about patriot prayer, took five minutes

it doesnt matter what colour or creed their founder or figureheads are, they are very clearly a far-right nationalist organisation

again, if you are handwaving that away with a b-b-but and a gotcha that someone involved is half-asian, then you are the problem

mainly, im worried why we have so many fanboys/girls for all sorts of irrelevant americanised ideologies on boards.

My theory is that the true far right in the US is actually very small and the much larger far left are pretending its much larger than it actually is to push their equally racist and violent agenda. Hence the invention of "alt-right" - basically a tag for anyone whose political views you disagree with.

I mean defending the physical attacking a journalist, no matter how bad you think he is - you're as bad as any nazi at that point.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I mean defending the physical attacking a journalist, no matter how bad you think he is - you're as bad as any nazi at that point.

ive condemned the attack in this thread and have no truck with extremists on either side (nor the online cheerleaders for whom this is a game)

but have a read back at your statement there and maybe consider that there may have been at least some nazis who did worse than punch a prick

Danzy

Antifa is about enforcing control and driving ideological conformity.

It is the Jesuits with a mask and iron bar.

Largely derived from the same class as the Clergy, not by coincidence.

The well to do looking for a cause and pushing others to fall in line.

Everybody who is not in line is a sinner, a heretic, a Nazi, a Zio Jew etc. Everybody else is then fair game to beaten.

Pretending it is about fighting Nazism is like pretending that the Church is about loving one another and God.

Kimsang

Deleted User wrote: »

ive read a bit about patriot prayer, took five minutes
it doesnt matter what colour or creed their founder or figureheads are, they are very clearly a far-right nationalist organisation

again, if you are handwaving that away with a b-b-but and a gotcha that someone involved is half-asian, then you are the problem

mainly, im worried why we have so many fanboys/girls for all sorts of irrelevant americanised ideologies on boards.

Can you supply evidence for them being a far-right nationalist group.

Patriot prayer had gathered that day to raise awarness of #Himtoo, which sought to bring awareness to men who had been falsely accused of sex crimes.

Are you saying it was a good thing that Antifa turned up without a protest permit to counter protest this awareness raising?

On November 17, 2018, a rally supporting the #HimToo movement hosted by Patriot Prayer member Haley Adams was held in downtown Portland, Oregon. According to Adams, she and about 40 others gathered to show support for men who are victims of false rape allegations, which they blame the rise of the #MeToo movement for. The speakers shared stories of false rape accusations and spoke about other points regardings "Men's Rights."

After the rally held by the rightwing group, a larger number of anti-fascist protestors from the leftwing rally chased them. According to the co-chair of Portland DSA Olivia Katbi Smith, the only way to stop the rightwing protestors, which she referred to as "out-and-out fascists", is with a bigger number of anti-fascists. The protesters allegedly started using pepper spray and fireworks, as well as tossing bottles, flares, silly string, and smoke bombs. The police then placed a protective wall around the rightwingers who were left to allow them to escape. The opposing rallies ended in six arrests.

I don't see why you're so quick to label far-right and completely ignore the context of the situation.
Is it the fact that the group touches controversial subjects that makes them far-right nationalist? Or is it the two citations on wikipedia written by Antifa journalists?

Seanachai

Danzy wrote: »

Antifa is about enforcing control and driving ideological conformity.

It is the Jesuits with a mask and iron bar.

Largely derived from the same class as the Clergy, not by coincidence.

The well to do looking for a cause and pushing others to fall in line.

Everybody who is not in line is a sinner, a heretic, a Nazi, a Zio Jew etc. Everybody else is then fair game to beaten.

Pretending it is about fighting Nazism is like pretending that the Church is about loving one another and God.

The faith militant

20Cent

Lads yer overthinking this.

Imagine it was your home town or city.
A group organise a march where racists go around chanting "the jews will not replace us", they attack people, they drive a car down a busy street killing someone and injuring dozens.
One member of this group murders two people on a train and stabs a few others.
They attract the dregs of society, nazis, nazi skins, far right militia people.
They want to march regularly through your city or town.
You try to get it banned but the authorities can't or won't.
You find out they are in coordination with the police.

What do you do then?
Let them continue and grow?

No thanks, there is no choice it is now self defence.

Fortunately some people have stepped up to the plate to take them on.

No need to discuss the race of these people or try and understand them, find some halfway point. I always laugh how do you have a discussion or a halfway point with someone who wants you dead. Easy to be on a high horse thousands of miles away and yes of course it's not good they have to use force but there is no alternative.



No pasan

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean defending the physical attacking a journalist, no matter how bad you think he is - you're as bad as any nazi at that point.

What about endorsing them for Congress? That person must be worse than a Nazi right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW42IV3LExg

Kimsang

20Cent wrote: »

Lads yer overthinking this.

Imagine it was your home town or city.
A group organise a march where racists go around chanting "the jews will not replace us", they attack people, they drive a car down a busy street killing someone and injuring dozens.
One member of this group murders two people on a train and stabs a few others.

No pasan

We're talking about Portland, not Charlottesville. Research your facts jesus...

America is a big place, theres more than one city there.

20Cent

Kimsang wrote: »

We're talking about Portland, not Charlottesville. Research your facts jesus...

America is a big place, theres more than one city there.

Ignore bigger points made and go for symantics.




Hi Kimsang.
There are regular marches of nazis in your town,
They won't be banned.
The cops won't stop them.

What would you do?

20Cent

SnakePlissken wrote: »

You are the perfect illustration as to why Antifa and its acolytes are seen as such a joke, behind the violence and rhetoric there is no substance, no nobility, it's just a gang of scrawny thugs who want to argue and harass as it's the only outlet they have that makes them feel they have a voice.

Case in point, you don't like Patriot Prayer, this is fine, neither do I in particular, but instead of listing factual reasons as to the source of your disdain, stating a person of colour is a white nationalist who advocates white supremacy is so obviously stupid it shines a light on your most dangerous agenda and the most used tactic of The Far Left; "If I disagree with you I'm going to maliciously label you a racist... so you better not disagree with me"

Never said Gibson is a white nationalist.
I even put it in bold.
He provides opportunities for them, an umbrella group so they can assert themselves. This is a documented fact.

Kimsang

20Cent wrote: »

Ignore bigger points made and go for symantics.




Hi Kimsang.
There are regular marches of nazis in your town,
They won't be banned.
The cops won't stop them.

What would you do?

That's not what's happening in Portland.

If you want to know what's happening in Portland, please read these messages from Portland residents:

The thing is: if you can get people fired for not reopening a business for service, send them into hiding for reporting a blocked crosswalk, park wherever the hell you want, not only are you not oppressed, you’re setting a new bar for privilege. Meanwhile the “privileged” are fired, threatened, and exiled, along with identifiable kin in some disproportionate North-Korean-style generational vengeance. The only consolation is that every white progressive will eventually be swallowed up by their own masochistic witch hunt, and perhaps even march to the gallows with alacrity.

In this country, we don’t run away. We stand our ground for the freedoms that make the US such a wonderful and inclusive place. The city of Portland seems to have been led astray and it’s sad to watch the liberal leadership churn out something that is so ugly and unrecognizable to America and it’s ideals. Be better than the mobs, Alan.

I’m sure you mean well but you don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve lived in PDX since the mid-90’s, am “of color” in a same sex relationship and guess what…my wife & I are saving to move away from this place ASAP. We’ve fought for years here from speaking to human rights bureaus, politicians, city council, to writing letters, discussing issues with businesses, working directly with campaigns & more. Nothing is better and all is worse.

I literally cannot take a walk in my neighborhood or go to a store w/o some virtue signalling’s sign reminding me that certain lives matter, how “safe” someone is because “all (fill in aggrieved group here) is welcomed” or that “In *Our* America” leftist ideology is the right kind of divine faith. I cannot leave my home without getting a lecture on someone’s car, home, or business. And when my concern is expressed (that such signs serve to divide, adhere to self righteousness, and demonstrate Vaclav Havel’s Green Grocer example) my supposed downtrodden status is thrown out the window because of thoughtcrimes for being moderate.

So no, its not nazis that are a problem for Portland.

20Cent

Kimsang wrote: »

That's not what's happening in Portland.

If you want to know what's happening in Portland, please read these messages from Portland residents:








Now maybe you can come up with a better analogy, I will surely answer for you.

No answer as expected.
Avoid the city centre on nazi day perhaps.



Messages from Andy Ngo's blog naive.

Kimsang

20Cent wrote: »

No answer as expected.
Avoid the city centre on nazi day perhaps.

Messages from Andy Ngo's blog naive.

3 posts ago you confused Portland with Charlottesville.
Go away and have a read for yourself, come back sure when you know what's going on!

20Cent

Kimsang wrote: »

3 posts ago you confused Portland with Charlottesville.
Go away and have a read for yourself, come back sure when you know what's going on!

I didn't they are related, part of the bigger picture.
Still no answer.

Jimmy Garlic

20Cent wrote: »

Ignore bigger points made and go for symantics.




Hi Kimsang.
There are regular marches of nazis in your town,
They won't be banned.
The cops won't stop them.

What would you do?

Bus in a load of violent mouth breathing trust fund communists to clash with the alleged Nazis, burn cars, break windows, and attack random people. Sounds like a great plan for the town.

20Cent

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Bus in a load of violent mouth breathing trust fund communists to clash with the alleged Nazis, burn cars, break windows, and attack random people. Sounds like a great plan for the town.

What would you do?

super_furry

Antifa in the USA just appears to be a reaction to the murders and mass shootings from the radical right.

Kimsang

super_furry wrote: »

Antifa in the USA just appears to be a reaction to the murders and mass shootings from the radical right.

And North Korea appears to be the People's Democratic Republic of Korea.

Seanachai

20Cent wrote: »

Lads yer overthinking this.

Imagine it was your home town or city.
A group organise a march where racists go around chanting "the jews will not replace us", they attack people, they drive a car down a busy street killing someone and injuring dozens.
One member of this group murders two people on a train and stabs a few others.
They attract the dregs of society, nazis, nazi skins, far right militia people.
They want to march regularly through your city or town.
You try to get it banned but the authorities can't or won't.
You find out they are in coordination with the police.

What do you do then?
Let them continue and grow?

No thanks, there is no choice it is now self defence.

Fortunately some people have stepped up to the plate to take them on.

No need to discuss the race of these people or try and understand them, find some halfway point. I always laugh how do you have a discussion or a halfway point with someone who wants you dead. Easy to be on a high horse thousands of miles away and yes of course it's not good they have to use force but there is no alternative.



No pasan

There is no alternative to what? letting a few Nazi hobbyists march up and down the street? The minority of the anti-progressive people who genuinely adhere to Nazi ideology are a very minimal threat to social peace. The presence of Antifa inflames the situation and they are often shown to be the instigators of the violence!

If there is a real Nazi\fascist threat it will be from state insiders and professional guys in $2k suits, not frustrated types holding placards on the streets.

super_furry

It’s the right-wing extremists and white supremacists who are murdering people. Antifa are sprouting up as a response to that, it's fairly straight-forward.

20Cent

Seanachai wrote: »

There is no alternative to what? letting a few Nazi hobbyists march up and down the street? The minority of the anti-progressive people who genuinely adhere to Nazi ideology are a very minimal threat to social peace. The presence of Antifa inflames the situation and they are often shown to be the instigators of the violence!

If there is a real Nazi\fascist threat it will be from state insiders and professional guys in $2k suits, not frustrated types holding placards on the streets.

Te far right people killed 50 people last year in the US.

Thousands marched at Charlottesville.
Allowed to march unchallenged means they would get bigger and bigger.
What are the people who liv tere supposed to do.
Nazis in tactical gear and weapons marching though their city on a regular basis.


If there were no marches there would be no antifa.