Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

snowblind

Selene Ambitious Caterpillar wrote: »

Says you:D And no, I'm not a "liberal lefty" either. Not a very good judge of character are you. A bit like your pal Hill16bhoy. I'm a centrist.

Selene Ambitious Caterpillar wrote:

I, a social liberal, pro-socialised healthcare like we have in Europe, pro-gun control (in fact I'd ban guns), think military spending should be reduced etc. am right-wing, well then what does that make actuall right wingers?

Oops, you already forgot your previous lie!

Selene Ambitious Caterpillar wrote: »

The article you quoted doesn't say that attacks by far right terrorists have been happening on a "weekly basis" as claimed, neither does the particular part you quoted. Indeed the report linked says "Five shooting sprees resulted in 38 deaths". So the numbers don't add up for these murders to have been happening on a "weekly basis". More hyperbole.

That was 2018. We don't have stats for 2019 yet. I asked you for your interpretation of the numbers, but you haven't commented. It's because it's very difficult for some reason for you to agree that right wing violence exists. Yet you cannot find any more antifa violence examples than a couple of scuffles with two parties. Yet it seems like you are more worried about antifa violence than actual murders of minorities. Seems like an agenda is somewhere there.....

Selene Ambitious Caterpillar wrote: »

Oh and btw, the part did you did quote links to a study by who? Oh that's right, the ADL. The same organisation who says:

Funny how you only "agree" with the ADL when it suits. Very typical of an ideologue.

When did I agree anything about ADL? Come on, please, show me. You won't find anything. Yet another thing you'll ignore. Throw as many lies as you can and ignore the comments. Typical alt right strategy. Sorry, alt center, left wing, whatever but not the right, lol

Selene Ambitious Caterpillar wrote: »

The NY times article needs an account to read which I'm not doing. Regardless, what is important is number of members, not number of groups. This should then be taken as a proportion of the American population to give the percentage (it'll be in the single digits). So no, there aren't that many Nazis.

Again trying to talk down nazi influence in current violence. Sounds like something a nazi would do. Oh no, sorry, leftist, center, very liberal.

Selene Ambitious Caterpillar wrote: »

Again, giving me a google search is not evidence, and as I said, we are talking specific to America here.

Well the google search shows pages and pages of facts you ignore. You're an intentionally fact omitting, constantly changing what you say and pretending to be what you aren't. No one is gonna believe you, sorry mate.

Selene Ambitious Caterpillar wrote: »

Regardless, the idea that antifa are in anyway effective is preposterous. Your own links prove this. The group became resurgent under Trump (elected 2016). And as your own links show, the number of killings by the far-right hit a record high in 2018 for this decade, the highest since 1995. Seems all that rioting has had the opposite effect intended. A big F for antifa so.

Oh, looks like you are celebrating the increase in murders. Your nazi side winning, proud aren't ya, little leftie center liberal dude. Lol...

snowblind

notobtuse wrote: »

The protest this weekend is a statement against the attack on journalist Ngo with the goal of getting Antifa declared a domestic terrorist organization and to showcase to the world Antifa’s violent tactics.

So, it sure seems like you’re okay with using violence against an organization who wants to peaceably protest violence.

Boggles the mind.

You don't believe that even yourself.

snowblind

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Only an authoritarian would believe that they "own" minorities, or anyone for that matter. The evidence keeps building as to what snowblind really is. A far-left authoritarian who supports scum like antifa.

yeah, the scum that dared to oppose nazis in the 30s as well. Suit your alt right, sorry, liberal left-center, agenda to call them scum!

I didn't say anything about owning minorities. Makes sense you do though.

snowblind

notobtuse wrote: »

That's grasping at straws. Antifa claims their violent actions are defense when they are the ones on the offense. And show me where I defended (in the non-Antifa true meaning of the word defend) the Proud Boys on anything other than their claim to not want to initiate violence, and their right under the Constitution to peaceable protest. I would give Antifa accolades if they promised not to initiate violence, and, I do support their right to also protest peaceably.

So if someone punches you in the mouth for doing nothing but what is Constitutionally protected, and you punch back... YOU are the attacker? That's some crazy reasoning.

No it's not grasping at straws. It shows you are lying. And you are. Constantly.

snowblind

The alt right lying strategy is simple. It's the same as Trumps. There's nothing wrong with lying to them, facts don't matter - the maximization of hate does. There are no ethics. You can blame others of what you do all the time if it benefits your cause. Being far right absolves you of any need to be consistent or truthful. The only thing matters is that you create a space where violence against minorities is constantly whatabouted and distracted from. This is where the key strategy is - blame Antifa, every day, at every moment possible.

But don't worry, we all see you

notobtuse

snowblind wrote: »

You don't believe that even yourself.

Sure I do. But I doubt they can protest without initiating violence. But miracles do happen, or so they tell me.

snowblind

notobtuse wrote: »

Sure I do. But I doubt they can protest without initiating violence. But miracles do happen, or so they tell me.

Proud Boys? Yeah they do look like they are made of mostly coca cola and digiornos pizza but they have been planning provocation and violence all this time.

You see here as well, Portland police being chummy with alt right peeps planning violence . Not Proud Boys per se, but Portland alt right. Of course YOU don't want anyone to defend themselves or minorities because you want their attacks to be successful.

A lot of people don't look kindly to that though. Like the people in 30s Germany who challenged the fascists. Yep, violence is violence, be it alt right right now or the original nazis in the 30s.

Sweetemotion

After reading the last few pages, I've come to the conclusion that some people are absolutely out of their fricking minds.


They need to unsubscribe from whatever echo chamber they have discovered, start taking their vitamins again and go outside and enjoy life for a while.

snowblind

Random ephemera of peaceful Proud Boys who never incite or practice violence, because the anti fascists are the real fascists!1111

https://twitter.com/Johnnthelefty/status/1157872808707235841

Last Friday, Proud Boys leader Gavin McInnes riled up a crowd of supporters at New York City’s Metropolitan Republican Club with what he played off as a comedy routine: the commemoration and celebration of the 1960 televised assassination of a socialist.

https://twitter.com/jangelooff/status/1051170094208954369?s=21

During his speech at the Metropolitan club, McInnes told the audience that the “Western chauvinist” beliefs he espouses — which overlap almost wholly with President Donald Trump’s — should not be confused as “dictums.” “I’m not enforcing them upon anyone,” he argued. But as the Proud Boys credo goes, violence is “a really effective way to solve problems,” and, according to McInnes, the political left poses an existential threat to the nation’s future.

etc etc etc. if you were targeted by these people, wouldn't you want to defend yourself? According to you alt right trolls, that is the real fascism.

I mean I understand that it must feel liberating not to have any fear of being caught up lying when you don't care about the facts. Claiming the people who oppose your violence are the real aggressors is typical of these people, just say the opposite of what is true and repeat it without care for truth. Because truth doesn't matter, only hate does.

p1akuw47h5r3it

snowblind wrote: »

Oops, you already forgot your previous lie!

What lie? I am a centrist. I agree with the left on some issues and the right on others. I am in favour of strong borders, against the idea of sanctuary cities, dislike Islam (and all religion really). Those would be considered positions of the right.

snowblind wrote: »

That was 2018. We don't have stats for 2019 yet. I asked you for your interpretation of the numbers, but you haven't commented.

So what if they are 2018 numbers? What does that matter. The fact is that you said these mass shootings were happening on a weekly basis, and can't back it up. Because they haven't been happening on a weekly basis. And what do you mean my interpretation of the numbers? My interpretation doesn't matter. The fact is these murders have not been happening on a weekly basis as you claimed. It is simply not true.

It's a bit like when you claimed that Antifa weren't a threat to life, even though a known member tried to firebomb an ICE center. You keep making outrageous claims and can't ever back them up because they are lies.

snowblind wrote: »

It's because it's very difficult for some reason for you to agree that right wing violence exists.

No. Memory of a goldfish you have. I've already stated that terrorism from white-nationalists is America's greatest terrorism threat at the moment. You've tried to insinuate this before, and I made you look a fool then, so I'll do it again:

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Quite silly to say such a thing after this and other events. It's quite clear that White-nationalism is Americas biggest terrorist threat. I believe the FBI said as much a while ago (though it may have also been MI5 talking about Britain, I can't remember).

In saying that, I do believe the leftist media overstate the number and power of these groups in order to portray America as this huge racist country that's awful for minorities to live in, which isn't true.

snowblind wrote: »

Yet you cannot find any more antifa violence examples than a couple of scuffles with two parties. Yet it seems like you are more worried about antifa violence than actual murders of minorities. Seems like an agenda is somewhere there.....

As has been pointed out to you before this thread is about antifa. It seems very difficult for you to grasp that concept. The person obfuscating is you, trying to hind the fact that Antifa are terrorists by constantly referring to the terrorists on the right. Both are bad people, unlike you, I dislike both sets of people.

snowblind wrote: »

When did I agree anything about ADL? Come on, please, show me. You won't find anything. Yet another thing you'll ignore. Throw as many lies as you can and ignore the comments. Typical alt right strategy. Sorry, alt center, left wing, whatever but not the right, lol


Again trying to talk down nazi influence in current violence. Sounds like something a nazi would do. Oh no, sorry, leftist, center, very liberal.

You've used an article, that used a study the ADL carried out, to try, and fail, to prove that far-right murders have been happening on a weekly basis. Strange that you would do such a thing given that the ADL are an organisation that you never seem to agree with or trust.

snowblind wrote: »

Well the google search shows pages and pages of facts you ignore. You're an intentionally fact omitting, constantly changing what you say and pretending to be what you aren't. No one is gonna believe you, sorry mate.

No they show pages and pages of random articles and links. If you view a google dump as evidence of anything, one has to seriously consider your intellectual capability.

snowblind wrote: »

Oh, looks like you are celebrating the increase in murders. Your nazi side winning, proud aren't ya, little leftie center liberal dude. Lol...

Nope, I'm not celebrating. Just showing how useless Antifa are in their aim at stopping fascism and right-wing terrorism. Those are the facts, facts that you presented. Pity they have upturned your world view.

p1akuw47h5r3it

snowblind wrote: »

yeah, the scum that dared to oppose nazis in the 30s as well. Suit your alt right, sorry, liberal left-center, agenda to call them scum!

I didn't say anything about owning minorities. Makes sense you do though.

The antfa you support was not around in the 1930's. It's laughable that you'd even make a connection between Antifa as it exists today in America and the Antifa of the 1930's (which existed in Germany).

Ulysses Gaze

DanDan6592 wrote: »

The antfa you support was not around in the 1930's. It's laughable that you'd even make a connection between Antifa as it exists today in America and the Antifa of the 1930's (which existed in Germany).

The Battle of Cable Street in 1936?

p1akuw47h5r3it

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The Battle of Cable Street in 1936?

That's not in America, regardless Antifa as we know it today in America traces it's origins to the 80's I believe.

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

The antfa you support was not around in the 1930's. It's laughable that you'd even make a connection between Antifa as it exists today in America and the Antifa of the 1930's (which existed in Germany).

Why?
Bet they are quite similar actually.

20Cent

So much for the tolerant left.

snowblind

DanDan6592 wrote: »

The antfa you support was not around in the 1930's. It's laughable that you'd even make a connection between Antifa as it exists today in America and the Antifa of the 1930's (which existed in Germany).

Nope, it is the same antifa. Its not an organization, it's a movement. And it works the same way. Oppose the fascists on the streets. Literally the same goals, same tactics, everything. I know you are trying to make it look like they're different because opposing the 30s Antifa would be bad optics for you. But your will does not change the material world and it's facts.

snowblind

DanDan6592 wrote: »

That's not in America, regardless Antifa as we know it today in America traces it's origins to the 80's I believe.

Of course you believe, since you clearly want to believe. Believing is different than the reality tho. Didn't you already say you don't like religion (but especially that one religion lol)

snowblind

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Nope, I'm not celebrating. Just showing how useless Antifa are in their aim at stopping fascism and right-wing terrorism. Those are the facts, facts that you presented. Pity they have upturned your world view.

What 'facts'? You clearly don't understand causation in this case. Claiming that antifa are the reason for more fascist attacks, is that what you're doing? You'll need to prove that causation.

The real facts are - since fascist attacks are on the rise, there is a need for more anti fascism. Much less convoluted and ingested with intentional distraction that what you are going for.

The president and his white supremacist allies do not want to criticize these attacks too heavily, and if they do, they'll do it with a massive side of whataboutery. Thats what emboldens the racist attacks. Also popular FOX personnel like Carlson, Lahren etc who consistently dogwhistle to the violent right. But you wouldn't wanna look at that at all, since as a liberal leftist centrist you side with these people.

snowblind

Dandandandandan since you keep going on about my estimate of fascist mass murders every week, why won't you give me your estimate?

2018:

The report shows that 25 of 46 suspects in 32 domestic terrorism incidents were identified as white supremacists. The 25 suspected white supremacist suspects were responsible for all “race-based” incidents while others were deemed “anti-government extremists” and “single-issue extremists.”

Here's the data on white supremacist terrorism the Trump administration has been 'unable or unwilling' to give to Congress

2019 stats like that are still not there, but I stand by my estimate. I find it completely plausible that there would be 52 this year, considering the rise in frequency of these attacks. Where is yours, will you still avoid recognizing the severity of the issue?

Regardless, you sealioning me about these estimates is classic and boring distraction stuff. I'll never claim my estimates to be exactly accurate, but they sure are in the ballpark. Now, your turn.

p1akuw47h5r3it

snowblind wrote: »

What 'facts'? You clearly don't understand causation in this case. Claiming that antifa are the reason for more fascist attacks, is that what you're doing? You'll need to prove that causation.

No. What I'm saying is that are failing, and failing badly, at stopping these attacks. They are also failing at seemingly stopping the far right, since according to you the far right are everywhere and on the rise.

snowblind wrote: »

The real facts are - since fascist attacks are on the rise, there is a need for more anti fascism. Much less convoluted and ingested with intentional distraction that what you are going for.

No. What's needed is better and more intelligence on the far-right, for intelligence agencies to infiltrate the groups and for sociologists/psychologists to try and figure out what finally pushes these people to go and carry out an atrocity so something can be done to turn them away from such a path.

Having more narcissist wannabe heroes who view themselves in the same light as those that fought Hitler and the Nazis in WW2, dressing up in black and going for a fight/riot doesn't help anything.

snowblind wrote: »

The president and his white supremacist allies do not want to criticize these attacks too heavily, and if they do, they'll do it with a massive side of whataboutery. Thats what emboldens the racist attacks. Also popular FOX personnel like Carlson, Lahren etc who consistently dogwhistle to the violent right. But you wouldn't wanna look at that at all, since as a liberal leftist centrist you side with these people.

How ridiculous for you to talk about whataboutery, whilst engaging in it at the exact same time. Couldn't make it up. I'll state again that this thread is about antifa. I am not coming onto a thread about far-right nationalists and dumping links and opinions about Antifa screaming "but what about them". But that is exactly what you are doing. If you want to set up a thread about the far right and the dog-whistling Fox News well then I am sure you are more then welcome.

I'll state it for you again, I like neither the far-right terrorists nor the fat left terrorists.

Any evidence of attacks by antifa is meant with a bunch of but, but, the far right.

Beasty

snowblind

You have completely ignored my prior warning which was copied into the OP

Do not post in this thread again

Everyone else - this thread seems to have gone off on a tangent and resulted in a lot of tit for tat argument rather than debate/discussion. This is about Antifa and their activities - please discuss that

Any questions, PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

Thanks

Sweetemotion

notobtuse wrote: »

This Saturday in Portland is beginning to look like good watching material. Grab the popcorn!

They should have PPV'd this event. Can't wait to see it unfold, I wish I could be there.


I thought that Ted Wheeler was going to change tactics, but going by this recent interview he is still very pro antifa.

It's going to be MAGA.

20Cent

The last few proud boy marches have been wildly outnumbered by counter protesters. They didn't try anything, hopefully this weekend is the same and they get the message and behave themselves They are not wanted anywhere.

Midlife

Sweetemotion wrote: »

They should have PPV'd this event. Can't wait to see it unfold, I wish I could be there.


I thought that Ted Wheeler was going to change tactics, but going by this recent interview he is still very pro antifa.

It's going to be MAGA.

You and notobtuse are a pair of total hypocrites.

Spend ages baning on about violence, gangs and so on.

Then the minute you think there's going to be a bit of violence, it's all popcorn and PPV.

So come on, either you're or against violence. You can't be against it but get off on watching it.

p1akuw47h5r3it

What happened to Snowblinds ****show of a thread?

Eric Cartman

DanDan6592 wrote: »

What happened to Snowblinds ****show of a thread?

it went to the gulag where antifa wants to send everyone.

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

What happened to Snowblinds ****show of a thread?

Freedom of speech crowd reporting all his posts because they are too close to the bone truth hurts.

There is hardly a left in the US nevermind a far left.

Antifa confront fascists. They make sure they can't march about wherever they want unopposed in order to normalise and grow. It's been pretty successful numbers are dropping at these events. The proud boys are a tiny embarrassment now, even the guy who founded them disowns them. Guess the tattoo removal people will make money from it.

InTheShadows

20Cent wrote: »

Freedom of speech crowd reporting all his posts because they are too close to the bone truth hurts.

There is hardly a left in the US nevermind a far left.

Antifa confront fascists. They make sure they can't march about wherever they want unopposed in order to normalise and grow. It's been pretty successful numbers are dropping at these events. The proud boys are a tiny embarrassment now, even the guy who founded them disowns them. Guess the tattoo removal people will make money from it.

Antifa are terrorists

Brian?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it went to the gulag where antifa wants to send everyone.

Anarchists like gulags now?

Danzy

snowblind wrote: »

Proud Boys? Yeah they do look like they are made of mostly coca cola and digiornos pizza but they have been planning provocation and violence all this time.

You see here as well, Portland police being chummy with alt right peeps planning violence . Not Proud Boys per se, but Portland alt right. Of course YOU don't want anyone to defend themselves or minorities because you want their attacks to be successful.

A lot of people don't look kindly to that though. Like the people in 30s Germany who challenged the fascists. Yep, violence is violence, be it alt right right now or the original nazis in the 30s.

Most people are pretending that Antifa are in anyway like like the people in 30s Germany who challenged fascists.

They are more like the ones who fought with Nazi Germany in dividing up Poland.