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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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    #332
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    super_furry wrote: »
    It’s the right-wing extremists and white supremacists who are murdering people. Antifa are sprouting up as a response to that, it's fairly straight-forward.

    How would the presence of Antifa at marches or even patrolling the streets prevent somebody from murdering?, the professionals can't even manage that a lot of the time. If Antifa run into people that sinister like the Klan or Nazi rednecks for example, they won't win that fight.


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    #333
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    20Cent wrote: »
    Te far right people killed 50 people last year in the US.

    Thousands marched at Charlottesville.
    Allowed to march unchallenged means they would get bigger and bigger.
    What are the people who liv tere supposed to do.
    Nazis in tactical gear and weapons marching though their city on a regular basis.


    If there were no marches there would be no antifa.

    So would you like to limit the rights of all people to march or just the right wing?


    There is no excuse for violence in politics. You can challenge without crowbars.


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    #334
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    Seanachai wrote: »
    How would the presence of Antifa at marches or even patrolling the streets prevent somebody from murdering?, the professionals can't even manage that a lot of the time. If Antifa run into people that sinister like the Klan or Nazi rednecks for example, they won't win that fight.

    Antifa outnumber any real nazis there by about 100-1, probably more.

    Portland is arguably the most progressive part of North America.


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    #335
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Righteous people don't have to hide behind masks.


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    #336
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    biko wrote: »
    Righteous people don't have to hide behind masks.

    tell that to batman


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    #337
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    20Cent wrote: »
    Allowed to march unchallenged means they would get bigger and bigger.
    What are the people who liv tere supposed to do.
    Nazis in tactical gear and weapons marching though their city on a regular basis.

    If there were no marches there would be no antifa.

    Your summary is bordering on delusional.

    Let's speak specifically about one incident, it will make things easier.
    Was the #himtoo event a bunch of nazis in tactical gear that needed to be challenged by Antifa?
    On November 17, 2018, a rally supporting the #HimToo movement hosted by Patriot Prayer member Haley Adams was held in downtown Portland, Oregon. According to Adams, she and about 40 others gathered to show support for men who are victims of false rape allegations, which they blame the rise of the #MeToo movement for. The speakers shared stories of false rape accusations and spoke about other points regardings "Men's Rights."
    After the rally held by the rightwing group, a larger number of anti-fascist protestors from the leftwing rally chased them. According to the co-chair of Portland DSA Olivia Katbi Smith, the only way to stop the rightwing protestors, which she referred to as "out-and-out fascists", is with a bigger number of anti-fascists. The protesters allegedly started using pepper spray and fireworks, as well as tossing bottles, flares, silly string, and smoke bombs.


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    #338
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Seanachai wrote: »
    How would the presence of Antifa at marches or even patrolling the streets prevent somebody from murdering?, the professionals can't even manage that a lot of the time. If Antifa run into people that sinister like the Klan or Nazi rednecks for example, they won't win that fight.

    The far right in America have an evangelical Christian base promoting their "Christian" ethos. It's a very dangerous fanatical base with some of it's religious ideology infiltrating the Republican party with the likes of those extreme anti-abortion laws in certain states.


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    #339
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    biko wrote: »
    Righteous people don't have to hide behind masks.

    They actually do when the far right are trying to identify and kill them, they have killed around 50 people already so have form on killing their opponents.


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    #340
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Was the #himtoo event a bunch of nazis in tactical gear that needed to be challenged by Antifa?

    #himtoo ??

    FFS, load them all into a cannon and fire them into the fúcking sun.


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    #341
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    klaaaz wrote: »
    They actually do when the far right are trying to identify and kill them, they have killed around 50 people already so have form on killing their opponents.

    Go away with yourself! There were 50 people killed linked to extremism in total in the US 2018
    Deadly shooting sprees were a major factor in the high death toll. Five of the 17 incidents involved shooting sprees that caused 38 deaths and injured 33 people.

    And some of these were Islamic extremists. Ridiculous figures and statistics


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    #342
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    Boggles wrote: »
    #himtoo ??

    FFS, load them all into a cannon and fire them into the fúcking sun.
    The speakers shared stories of false rape accusations and spoke about other points regardings "Men's Rights."
    Raging nazis, we should hang them all- all 40 of them.


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    #343
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    The same people who want nazis to be allowed March through communities for "rights" want to ban bandannas and milkshakes. Get your head around that.


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    #344
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Go away with yourself! There were 50 people killed linked to extremism in total in the US 2018
    Deadly shooting sprees were a major factor in the high death toll. Five of the 17 incidents involved shooting sprees that caused 38 deaths and injured 33 people.



    Here's where you took your quote from: https://www.adl.org/murder-and-extremism-2018

    Kimsang wrote: »
    And some of these were Islamic extremists. Ridiculous figures and statistics
    And here is where you manufactured that:
    The extremist-related murders in 2018 were overwhelmingly linked to right-wing extremists. Every one of the perpetrators had ties to at least one right-wing extremist movement, although one had recently switched to supporting Islamist extremism.


    Talk about misleading and disingenuous posting. That's shameful.


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    #345
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    osarusan wrote: »
    Here's where you took your quote from: https://www.adl.org/murder-and-extremism-2018
    And here is where you manufactured that:
    Talk about misleading and disingenuous posting. That's shameful.

    Disingenuous ooze dripping from this post.
    I manufactured nothing. There is no link between far-right and Islamist extremism.

    The original poster of this information inferred all the killers of these 50 people killed by the far-right. This is a ludicrous claim.
    the far right are trying to identify and kill them, they have killed around 50 people already


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    #346
    Il Fascista
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Il Fascista


    20Cent wrote: »
    The same people who want nazis to be allowed March through communities for "rights" want to ban bandannas and milkshakes. Get your head around that.

    One is covered by freedom of expression, which is legal in America. The other is assault, which is illegal. You can't pick and choose which laws to enforce to suit your ideological needs.


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    #347
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    20Cent wrote: »
    Te far right people killed 50 people last year in the US.

    Thousands marched at Charlottesville.
    Allowed to march unchallenged means they would get bigger and bigger.
    What are the people who liv tere supposed to do.
    Nazis in tactical gear and weapons marching though their city on a regular basis.


    If there were no marches there would be no antifa.

    If I was a committed Nazi, even getting a beating on the street wouldn't deter me. Antifa are grossly overestimating their effectiveness in challenging genuine threats. The shootings are a symptom of much deeper problems that no amount of vigilance on the streets will even touch.


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    #348
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Disingenuous ooze dripping from this post.
    I manufactured nothing. There is no link between far-right and Islamist extremism.

    The original poster of this information inferred all the killers of these 50 people killed by the far-right. This is a ludicrous claim.


    You took a piece of information about one person who switched from right-wing extremism to islamic extremism, and turned that into islamic extremists, plural.


    Dishonest posting, plain and simple.


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    #349
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    osarusan wrote: »
    You took a piece of information about one person who switched from right-wing extremism to islamic extremism, and turned that into islamic extremists, plural.


    Dishonest posting, plain and simple.

    No I challenged the poster's claim, this claim
    the far right are trying to identify and kill them, they have killed around 50 people already
    Even if one person switched, that means not all 50 were killed by far-right extremists.

    And I correctly proved the claim wrong. Stop trying to change the subject.

    Or do you also think all 50 were killed by far-right extremists? When did Islamic extremism become far-right extremism?


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    #350
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kimsang wrote: »
    And I correctly proved the claim wrong.
    You made a new claim, which was that 'some of these were islamic extremists', even though you knew, from the source you used, that it was not some, but only one.

    There is no honest or legitimate reason to misrepresent the source data like that. None.


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    #351
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    osarusan wrote: »
    You made a new claim, which was that 'some were by islamic extremists', even though you knew, from the source you used, that it was not some, but only one.

    There is no honest or legitimate reason to misrepresent the source data like that. None.

    The source data was originally mis represented. I was just fixing it. The 50 deaths in 2018 was down from the previous 2 years, and most of the deaths came from killing sprees.

    There is already a link between mental health , drugs, and these killing sprees, so to say 'all 50 were killed by the far-right' is a much larger error, than me pluralizing one word accidentally.

    Your pedantry only goes to show your ideology.


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    #352
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Il Fascista wrote: »
    One is covered by freedom of expression, which is legal in America. The other is assault, which is illegal. You can't pick and choose which laws to enforce to suit your ideological needs.

    Wearing a bandanna or having a milkshake isn't assault.


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    #353
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kimsang wrote: »
    than me pluralizing one word accidentally.


    So you meant to type 'one of them was an islamic extremist' but instead typed 'some of them were islamic extremists'? And then it took 3 more posts to realise what you had accidentally done?

    You can't expect anybody to really believe that, can you?
    Kimsang wrote: »
    Your pedantry only goes to show your ideology.
    Have a look at my first post on this thread to see what I think of Antifa and the notion that they merely react to right-wing violence.


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    #354
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    osarusan wrote: »
    So you meant to type 'one of them was an islamic extremist' but instead typed 'some of them were islamic extremists'? And then it took 3 more posts to realise what you had accidentally done?

    You can't expect anybody to really believe that, can you?


    Have a look at my first post on this thread to see what I think of Antifa and the notion that they merely react to right-wing violence.

    Where is your equally pedantic analysis of 50 people killed by the far right?
    Or are you happy with guilt by association?


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    #355
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Where is your equally pedantic analysis of 50 people killed by the far right?

    You had already done the job of highlighting that not all 50 deaths should be linked to the far right. And there was noting pedantic about that either. The post was fine until you deliberately misrepresented data by changing something from a singular to a plural.
    Kimsang wrote: »
    Or are you happy with guilt by association?
    I don't know what you are talking about here.


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    #356
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    super_furry wrote: »
    Antifa in the USA just appears to be a reaction to the murders and mass shootings from the radical right.

    I'm not so sure about that. They've been around years causing trouble at protests over here. They were active in the US during the Occupy stuff and in various London riots.

    They're just hooligans with an education and wealthier parents. They would be at that shíte regardless of mass shootings or whatever.

    The only difference now is that they look slightly less like cnuts when contrasted with protests that feature KKK hoods and swasticas but people shouldn't fall for it. Like I said before, these prigs were at that sh|te long before nazism got so mainstream in the US.


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    #357
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    I would love to see these trust fund babies try this **** in Texas or some other city or state that allows or concealed carry instead of rioting in cities with Democrat mayors who will call off the Police. Its easy to say you're willing to die for your cause when you the local will protect you.


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    #358
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    osarusan wrote: »
    You had already done the job of highlighting that not all 50 deaths should be linked to the far right. And there was noting pedantic about that either. The post was fine until you deliberately misrepresented data by changing something from a singular to a plural.

    I don't know what you are talking about here.

    No you mis-interpreted by plural. It says specifically that one of the killers switched, but does not give any indication on how many people that one killer killed.
    I assume that one killer killed more than one person.
    Kimsang wrote: »
    And some of these (sic: DEATHS) were Islamic extremists. Ridiculous figures and statistics

    So while you are inferring I said some of these 'killers' when there was 1 killer, I was saying more than one death.

    That is the definition of pedantry.


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    #359
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kimsang wrote: »
    No you mis-interpreted by plural. It says specifically that one of the killers switched, but does not give any indication on how many people that one killer killed.
    I assume that one killer killed more than one person.


    So while you are inferring I said some of these 'killers' when there was 1 killer, I was saying more than one death.

    That is the definition of pedantry.
    It still says 'islamic extremists' even after your backtracking, it doesn't say 'an islamic extremist'.
    You pluralised the extremist.


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    #360
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Antifa outnumber any real nazis there by about 100-1, probably more.

    Portland is arguably the most progressive part of North America.

    I'm aware of Portland's rep, I don't see how marchers being subdued would discourage those who are serious about causing harm though, even if they're among the crowd. The planning goes on behind closed doors, maybe even in houses close by to Antifa members.

    Antifa or somebody similar puts 'this is a Nazi free zone' stickers in my neighbourhood in Dublin, I didn't think it was actually a concern firstly and secondly for all they know there could be twenty local Nazis networking or planning behind closed doors.

    Their approach isn't effective like the anti-heroin vigilantes in Ireland in the 80's was. It's just a bunch of guys and girls who lets be honest can't even fight that well throwing some punches and kicks and then going back to their homes or bars and patting each other on the back.


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    #361
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Seanachai wrote: »
    If I was a committed Nazi, even getting a beating on the street wouldn't deter me. Antifa are grossly overestimating their effectiveness in challenging genuine threats. The shootings are a symptom of much deeper problems that no amount of vigilance on the streets will even touch.

    Richard Spence held a ball the night of Trumps inauguration doing nazi salutes.
    He was regularly in the mainstream media.


    Where is he now?


This discussion has been closed.
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