Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Trump is a racist. There is no doubt. He is also a liar and a hate monger. He is the biggest danger to the United States IMO.
We had racists protest and murder a woman. What good people was he talking about in there?

If there is 'no doubt' then you can supply absolute proof he's a racist... correct?

He was talking about the people that were only there to preserve Robert E Lee's monument, and nothing more.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Nope. If a far righter was arrested because they initiated violence they would have no sympathy from me. But I do support someones use of violence as a defense to violence perpetrated upon them. Arresting those who partake in self defense while those who initiated the violence get away free as a bird is wrong. Wouldn't you agree?

The far right preach hate and violence. Anyone being violent should be arrested. Now that said, you've one lot preaching hate and another lot preaching a dislike for hate. Why do you support the racist ALT-Right in this, if it's just the violence you have trouble with? Are you a supporter of the Tiki touch brigade, Proud boys etc.?

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

If there is 'no doubt' then you can supply absolute proof he's a racist... correct?

He was talking about the people that were only there to preserve Robert E Lee's monument, and nothing more.

Yes.
He said Mexicans are murderers and rapists. He said the congresswomen hate all Jews. He said the congresswomen don't like america. He said they should go back were they came from. He separates children from parents and puts them in cages.

He wasn't. He said on both sides. In direct relation to the charlottesville riots and murder.

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The far right preach hate and violence. Anyone being violent should be arrested. Now that said, you've one lot preaching hate and another lot preaching a dislike for hate. Why do you support the racist ALT-Right in this, if it's just the violence you have trouble with? Are you a supporter of the Tiki touch brigade, Proud boys etc.?

Nope, I advocate the right to free speech, even unpopular speech, from the right and left as long as it is peaceful. But I do also advocate a person's right to defend themselves with force if violence is used against them... from the right and left.

I protested against the Vietnam War while it was going on. The protests got heated verbally but never violent. I was not your regular war protestor… I protested that if the US was not willing to do what was necessary to win the war then bring home our boys. The protests helped to end the war… peacefully.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Nope, I advocate the right to free speech, even unpopular speech, from the right and left as long as it is peaceful. But I do also advocate a person's right to defend themselves with force if violence is used against them... from the right and left.

I protested against the Vietnam War while it was going on. The protests got heated verbally but never violent. I was not your regular war protestor… I protested that if the US was not willing to do what was necessary to win the war then bring home our boys. The protests helped to end the war… peacefully.

Great. You seem to be more critical of the anti fascists is all, just pointing it out.

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yes.
He said Mexicans are murderers and rapists. He said the congresswomen hate all Jews. He said the congresswomen don't like america. He said they should go back were they came from. He separates children from parents and puts them in cages.

He wasn't. He said on both sides. In direct relation to the charlottesville riots and murder.

He said some Mexicans are murderers and rapists... which is true. The congresswomen who support BDS apparently do hate Israel. He said before criticizing and trying to change the US into something terrible, they might want to fix the hellholes they are trying to turn us into before doing so (and unfortunately not presented elegantly enough by Trump, but most of us not consumed by hate know what he meant). And, oh yeah, the law dictates adults and children be separated when it is suspected the adult is a criminal or if the adult is not who they claim to be in relation to the child.

And there were some fine people on both sides, and some bad people on both sides of the Charlotte protest.

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Great. You seem to be more critical of the anti fascists is all, just pointing it out.

I guess that is true as media reports show it is primarily the anti fascists who resort to initiating violence in these protests and rallies.

Tony EH

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Accident of birth? Are you religious? Souls don't float around and jump into a childs body.

My parents made the decision to have children, as did theirs and theirs and so on.
It was no accident

The person getting born didn't make the decision though.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

That pesky media, reporting what the president actually says. It’s a disgrace I tells ya. A disgrace

Out of context usually. And didn’t you just love it when The New York Times (the new shady lady) recently changed their headline from “TRUMP URGES UNITY VS. RACISM” to in the second edition “ASSAILING HATE BUT NOT GUNS,” after the liberal mob’s outcry against any favorable reporting of Trump and threats to cancel subscriptions. Is it any wonder here why public trust in the media to report on the truth is at an all-time low?

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

I guess that is true as media reports show it is primarily the anti fascists who resort to initiating violence in these protests and rallies.

I thought we couldn’t trust the media to report on Antifa?

Do you mean the carefully edited videos posted on Twitter by alt right types?

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Out of context usually. And didn’t you just love it when The New York Times (the new shady lady) recently changed their headline from “TRUMP URGES UNITY VS. RACISM” to in the second edition “ASSAILING HATE BUT NOT GUNS,” after the liberal mob’s outcry against any favorable reporting of Trump and threats to cancel subscriptions. Is it any wonder here why public trust in the media to report on the truth is at an all-time low?

You trust the media when they report what you want. You don’t trust them when they report something else. You don’t see the hypocrisy in this, it’s hilarious

Outlaw Pete

20Cent wrote: »

Another good thing antifa do is show that these intimidating characters are actually weak cowards when confronted. All mouth no Spartan so to speak.

Would you stop. Antifa are nothing but cowardly scum.

They've been seen instigating violence with bottles, bricks, bike locks, sucker punching people and even kicking people in the back of the head as they lay on the ground.

As for the suggestion that those they attack are weak when confronted, on the contrary, seems to me more often than not Antifa end up having their arses handed to them by those they attack....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsUvAm8GZIA

This Antifa chap here thought it was a good idea to attack with an extended metal baton:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHsk7EuX4K0

Love this one also were one cowardly Antifa chap tries a sucker punch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3pmQonrS9Y

20Cent wrote: »

No it won't stop me defending them becaus the far left are nothing like the far right.

So you support left extremism cause it's not as bad as right wing extremism?? :rolleyes:

You do know that you can actually disagree with all groups that use violence as a political tool, right? You don't actually have to support any extremists at all.

Amazes me that scum like Antifa can get support when their main aim is to silence those that they disagree with and often instigate violence against them too.

Billy Mays

notobtuse wrote: »

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yes.
He said Mexicans are murderers and rapists. He said the congresswomen hate all Jews. He said the congresswomen don't like america. He said they should go back were they came from. He separates children from parents and puts them in cages.

He wasn't. He said on both sides. In direct relation to the charlottesville riots and murder.

He said some Mexicans are murderers and rapists... which is true. The congresswomen who support BDS apparently do hate Israel. He said before criticizing and trying to change the US into something terrible, they might want to fix the hellholes they are trying to turn us into before doing so (and unfortunately not presented elegantly enough by Trump, but most of us not consumed by hate know what he meant). And, oh yeah, the law dictates adults and children be separated when it is suspected the adult is a criminal or if the adult is not who they claim to be in relation to the child.

And there were some fine people on both sides, and some bad people on both sides of the Charlotte protest.

Hate to break it to you but fine people don't go to neo nazi/white supremacy rallies

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

You trust the media when they report what you want. You don’t trust them when they report something else. You don’t see the hypocrisy in this, it’s hilarious

When there's video provided (that the media is forced to show) one can see for themselves what is going on even without the media's often opinionated biased spin. I also read news reports on events from right, left and center publications. Doing so gives you a clearer picture of events. You should try it sometime.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

He said some Mexicans are murderers and rapists... which is true. The congresswomen who support BDS apparently do hate Israel.

So are some politicians, evangelicals and developers..
Why would a President say such a thing if not to drum up hate?
He lied, he said they hate all jews. You are ignoring that and making it about Israel.

notobtuse wrote: »

He said before criticizing and trying to change the US into something terrible, they might want to fix the hellholes they are trying to turn us into before doing so (and unfortunately not presented elegantly enough by Trump, but most of us not consumed by hate know what he meant).

"So interesting to see 'progressive' Democrat congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful nation on earth, how our government is to be run.

"Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done."

That's telling them to go back where they came from.

If you hate our country you can leave". That's accusing fellow elected officials of hating the country they are elected to represent.

notobtuse wrote: »

And, oh yeah, the law dictates adults and children be separated when it is suspected the adult is a criminal or if the adult is not who they claim to be in relation to the child.

This is your country.

notobtuse wrote: »

And there were some fine people on both sides, and some bad people on both sides of the Charlotte protest.

There are no fine ALT-Right racists.

Outlaw Pete

Billy Mays wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but fine people don't go to neo nazi/white supremacy rallies

A statue was being lined up to be removed from a local park, of course there were people other than white supremacists protesting it. There were hundreds of conservative locals, civic nationalists and the alt-right.

It doesn't suit the left's agenda to admit that though.

James Brown

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

A statue was being lined up to be removed from a local park, of course there were people other than white supremacists protesting it. There were hundreds of conservative locals, civic nationalists and the alt-right.

It doesn't suit the left's agenda to admit that though.

Trump was commenting on the aftermath of the protests and death.

Eric Cartman

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

A statue was being lined up to be removed from a local park, of course there were people other than white supremacists protesting it. There were hundreds of conservative locals, civic nationalists and the alt-right.

It doesn't suit the left's agenda to admit that though.

I also enjoy how they keep clinging to an event that happened 2 years ago because they have no example before or after in recent memory in which 'right wing' demonstrators have caused any issues.

notobtuse

Billy Mays wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but fine people don't go to neo nazi/white supremacy rallies

I doubt any of those who merely wished to protect the monument of Robert E Lee go to neo nazi/white supremacy rallies. Try again.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I also enjoy how they keep clinging to an event that happened 2 years ago because they have no example before or after in recent memory in which 'right wing' demonstrators have caused any issues.

'An event'? A murder Eric.
Can you point to a peace rally were the people taking part wore swastikas, preached hate and stirred up trouble?

Billy Mays

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Billy Mays wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but fine people don't go to neo nazi/white supremacy rallies

A statue was being lined up to be removed from a local park, of course there were people other than white supremacists protesting it. There were hundreds of conservative locals, civic nationalists and the alt-right.

It doesn't suit the left's agenda to admit that though.

Nope

It was a rally organised by and featuring speeches by known neo nazis and white supremacists.

I can post an image of the poster for the rally again if you so wish. I'm sure you've seen it before though

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

I doubt any of those who merely wished to protect the monument of Robert E Lee go to neo nazi/white supremacy rallies. Try again.

You doubt anyone trying to keep the statue of the racist were racist? Try again.

Blueshoe

I'm a proud white Irishman. Actually I'm not particularly proud of Ireland. So I'm a proud white man.

It's ok to be white or black or brown or whatever.

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

He lied, he said they hate all jews. You are ignoring that and making it about Israel.

You don't have to believe me but you might want to believe a columnist from the New York Times who, on CNN, was brave enough to speak truth to power... that Tlaib was an anti-Semite.

She noted that Trump putting pressure on Israel to bar Omar and Tlaib was a “huge story” but it paled in comparison to the “scandal” that should have been the real story.

First, Weiss pointed out that the anti-Semites declared they were going to Palestine instead of Israel on their itineraries. She then dropped the bombshell that the trip “was being sponsored by a group that literally published neo-Nazi blood libels and said that it supported female suicide bombers. You know, hailing them as heroes. That's a scandal.”

It was a scandal “that has not been covered by any mainstream paper or network …” she lamented. “If someone like [Iowa Republican Congressman] Steve King was going to Sweden or Norway and eating with neo-Nazi groups, that would be front-page news,” she added.

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2019/08/18/nyt-columnist-admits-media-purposely-ignoring-anti-semitism

I wonder if the still has a job at The NYT?

Tony EH

Blueshoe wrote: »

I'm a proud white Irishman. Actually I'm not particularly proud of Ireland. So I'm a proud white man.

Proud of what exactly.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

You don't have to believe me but you might want to believe a columnist from the New York Times who, on CNN, was brave enough to speak truth to power... that Tlaib was an anti-Semite.



https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2019/08/18/nyt-columnist-admits-media-purposely-ignoring-anti-semitism

I wonder if the still has a job at The NYT?

Sounds like it's made up. The report is certainly bias.
Trump lied and said they hated all Jews.

Blueshoe

Tony EH wrote: »

Proud of what exactly.

You purposely left out the part where I said it's ok to be white,black , brown or whatever.

Tony EH

Blueshoe wrote: »

You purposely left out the part where I said it's ok to be white,black , brown or whatever.

That's got nothing whatsoever with being a "proud white man".

You're proud of what exactly?

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

When there's video provided (that the media is forced to show) one can see for themselves what is going on even without the media's often opinionated biased spin. I also read news reports on events from right, left and center publications. Doing so gives you a clearer picture of events. You should try it sometime.

So when do you decide if it’s getting “biased spin”? When it supports your point.

I read news reports from reputable news sources. The channel I watch the most for US news is Foxnews, because I don’t want to live in an echo chamber.

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You doubt anyone trying to keep the statue of the racist were racist? Try again.

Asinine response! Robert E Lee was a great military man, and is celebrated for military accomplishments. Abraham Lincoln originally picked him to lead the Union Army but unfortunately he chose to keep his allegiances to his state of Virginia. Find me one great person who doesn’t have things in their past that would be judged horrible by today’s standards. But that doesn’t mean we should eliminate from our history people who didn’t confirm to today’s values. The total picture should be part of the entire story. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were great US presidents and also owned slaves. Should they be eliminated from history, statues and paintings destroyed, removed from our currency… and do you think all their admirers are racists?