Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Good for him. He was fighting for an immoral cause. There’s a reason the Germans don’t put up statues of Rommel.

That reminded me of an interesting story… According to US Army Lt Gen H. R. McMaster, who as a captain commanded an armored cavalry troop in the Gulf War, one of his M2 Bradleys had a picture of Erwin Rommel inside. An Iraqi officer prisoner asked the Bradley's driver why he had a picture of America's enemy inside his armored personnel carrier. The driver replied that if the Iraqis had studied Rommel's campaigns perhaps he wouldn't be an American prisoner.

mynamejeff

20Cent wrote: »

Lee hated the USA and wanted black people to be slaves. He was a traitor, a racist and a loser.

The only reason these statues were put up was as a reminder to the black people who was in charge.

your understanding of the issue is as usual at primary school level

here open your mind your making a fool of your self and your "cause " again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

you really are the stereotypical left wing raving rabid leftist who shouts first and learns later

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Propagandist nonsense. Hitler did well strategically in the beginning, where's his statue?
Should never eliminate from history and should never celebrate racists. He didn't conform to the values of his own day, in fact they'd a war over it.
It's about celebrating them. Lee's own family were okay with it being taken down ffs.

Slavery was a hot topic even before the Revolutionary War began. There were major debates about it during the formation of the Declaration Of Independence. It almost wasn’t signed because of the slavery issue. Do you think George Washington and Thomas Jefferson should not be celebrated here in the US because they owned slaves?

Thomas Jefferson included a passage attacking slavery in his draft of the Declaration of Independence that initiated the most intense debate among the delegates in Philadelphia in 1776.

The following was taken out of the DOI and replaced with a more ambiguous passage about King George’s incitement of “domestic insurrections among us.”

He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. This piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the Christian King of Great Britain. Determined to keep open a market where Men should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or restrain this execrable commerce. And that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people on whom he has obtruded them: thus paying off former crimes committed again the Liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.

Blueshoe

Brian? wrote: »

Do you know when the statue was erected by any chance?

It was recently enough as far as I'm aware. Shane Ross was there.

Mr E

Blueshoe wrote: »

You are a sad individual Tony. But I wish you well

Mod: Less of the childish comments, please.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Slavery was a hot topic even before the Revolutionary War began. There were major debates about it during the formation of the Declaration Of Independence. It almost wasn’t signed because of the slavery issue. Do you think George Washington and Thomas Jefferson should not be celebrated here in the US because they owned slaves?

Thomas Jefferson included a passage attacking slavery in his draft of the Declaration of Independence that initiated the most intense debate among the delegates in Philadelphia in 1776.

The following was taken out of the DOI and replaced with a more ambiguous passage about King George’s incitement of “domestic insurrections among us.”

Historical whataboutery?
Look General Lee, Black faced minstrels, we evolve and move on. They were of their time, we've grown. We shouldn't forget but we should have matured enough not to celebrate such things.

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Historical whataboutery?
Look General Lee, Black faced minstrels, we evolve and move on. They were of their time, we've grown. We shouldn't forget but we should have matured enough not to celebrate such things.

Then why celebrate anything? Perhaps we should live for today and only today. Times will continue to change and what is socially acceptable today might not be acceptable tomorrow.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Then why celebrate anything? Perhaps we should live for today and only today. Times will continue to change and what is socially acceptable today might not be acceptable tomorrow.

Because somethings are worth celebrating? Some things are positive?
True and most of us are evolved enough to move on.
Thanks to history we know how the fascists take hold and can move to stop the same today.

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Because somethings are worth celebrating? Some things are positive?
True and most of us are evolved enough to move on.
Thanks to history we know how the fascists take hold and can move to stop the same today.

Military genius is a positive and worth celebrating.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Didn’t have a box of Crack Jack available so had to look it up. It was commissioned in 1917 by members of the National Sculpture Society and dedicated in 1924. I understand it is still there because of a court ruling that local authorities in Charlottesville cannot remove two Confederate statues because they are war memorials protected by state law.

I think this one will be even harder for social justice warriors to get removed…

I’d love to know what Crack Jack is and why it’s so informative.

These statues were put up during the Jim Crowe era to remind blank people who was in charge. They weren’t any solemn memorial. If they want to put up a memorial they should put one up to the slaves and Union soldiers who freed them. Not someone who fought to keep them in chains.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Military genius is a positive and worth celebrating.

Absolute hogwash.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

I’d love to know what Crack Jack is and why it’s so informative.

These statues were put up during the Jim Crowe era to remind blank people who was in charge. They weren’t any solemn memorial. If they want to put up a memorial they should put one up to the slaves and Union soldiers who freed them. Not someone who fought to keep them in chains.

Since 1896 Cracker Jack is an American brand of snack consisting of molasses-flavored, caramel-coated popcorn and peanuts, that comes in a box and is packaged with a prize of trivial value inside. Very young kids loved the small prizes and learned things from them. It is a standard joke here that if you think you know something you don’t really know you must have learned it from the prize in a box of Cracker Jack.

Please show me proof that the Robert E Lee statue was put up during the Jim Crow era to remind blank people who was in charge. Cracker Jack prizes do not count.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Absolute hogwash.

If I'd agree with you then we'd both be wrong. I guess it's differences in culture between the US and wherever you live. Here, great military minds are respected and celebrated... even enemies.

20Cent

mynamejeff wrote: »

your understanding of the issue is as usual at primary school level

here open your mind your making a fool of your self and your "cause " again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

you really are the stereotypical left wing raving rabid leftist who shouts first and learns later

You could point out how the post was wrong onstead of making an ad homein. That would require some thinking though.

Blueshoe

notobtuse wrote: »

If I'd agree with you then we'd both be wrong. I guess it's differences in culture between the US and wherever you live. Here, great military minds are respected and celebrated... even enemies.

Of course they are. We learn about great military leaders in school, there are books written about them. Movies too.

It's clearly obvious.

20Cent

notobtuse wrote: »

That reminded me of an interesting story… According to US Army Lt Gen H. R. McMaster, who as a captain commanded an armored cavalry troop in the Gulf War, one of his M2 Bradleys had a picture of Erwin Rommel inside. An Iraqi officer prisoner asked the Bradley's driver why he had a picture of America's enemy inside his armored personnel carrier. The driver replied that if the Iraqis had studied Rommel's campaigns perhaps he wouldn't be an American prisoner.

Rommel was fighting for the reich in order to murder jews, homosexuals, gypsies and everyone else who wasn't "the master race".

In fairness he did kill himself so that was one good thing he did.

notobtuse

20Cent wrote: »

Rommel was fighting for the reich in order to murder jews, homosexuals, gypsies and everyone else who wasn't "the master race".

In fairness he did kill himself so that was one good thing he did.

Wasn't Rommel accused of partaking in the plot to kill Hitler, and given the option to take his own life?

mynamejeff

20Cent wrote: »

Rommel was fighting for the reich in order to murder jews, homosexuals, gypsies and everyone else who wasn't "the master race".

In fairness he did kill himself so that was one good thing he did.

again ill informed ill though out and childish , just like all the rest of your posts

a German solider long before Hitler took over working with his national army took no part in the Holocaust killed him self so his family wouldn't be punished for his possible involvement in a plot against Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel

all this information is out there but youd rather sprout nonsense that you dont or cant understand

notobtuse

Blueshoe wrote: »

Of course they are. We learn about great military leaders in school, there are books written about them. Movies too.

It's clearly obvious.

I thought so, but it seems according to Brian great military leaders should be shunned.

Blueshoe

notobtuse wrote: »

I thought so, but it seems according to Brian great military leaders should be shunned.

Some people are just like that.

20Cent

mynamejeff wrote: »

again ill informed ill though out and childish , just like all the rest of your posts

a German solider long before Hitler took over working with his national army took no part in the Holocaust killed him self so his family wouldn't be punished for his possible involvement in a plot against Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel

all this information is out there but youd rather sprout nonsense that you dont or cant understand

Yep like Hitler took the easy way out cyanide.
Always cowards when push comes to shove.

Sweetemotion

20Cent wrote: »

Yep like Hitler took the easy way out cyanide.
Always cowards when push comes to shove.

Cowards go around in packs trying to scout for stragglers to beat up.

All in all I'd say that was a big win for the proud boys on Saturday. They achieved what they set out to do, bring national attention to the fascist tactics of the far left.

If they march next month I can see their numbers rising.

20Cent

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Cowards go around in packs trying to scout for stragglers to beat up.

All in all I'd say that was a big win for the proud boys on Saturday. They achieved what they set out to do, bring national attention to the fascist tactics of the far left.

If they march next month I can see their numbers rising.

In a few months time there will be no proud boys and it's current members will pretend they were never a part of it.

mynamejeff

20Cent wrote: »

Yep like Hitler took the easy way out cyanide.
Always cowards when push comes to shove.

so ..... no relevant reply just generic populist mob nonsense again



dark down there isnt it ?

20Cent

Two "proud boys" found guilty of gang assault in New York. This means the courts see them as a gang and can prosecute them as such. Lots of black and yellow t shirts will be hitting the bin this week.

mynamejeff

20Cent wrote: »

Two "proud boys" found guilty of gang assault in New York. This means the courts see them as a gang and can prosecute them as such. Lots of black and yellow t shirts will be hitting the bin this week.

er

no it doesn't unless it was a RICO prosecution .

was it ?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-members-of-far-right-group-proud-boys-found-guilty-for-role-in-manhattan-brawl-11566241050

no

more nonsense same as ever

1800_Ladladlad

Have to say I hate Antifa more than the nazis at this stage. A good mate of mine is in line with antifa, dresses and looks like, same beliefs etc The lads a tool:D

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

If I'd agree with you then we'd both be wrong. I guess it's differences in culture between the US and wherever you live. Here, great military minds are respected and celebrated... even enemies.

Show me on a map of the US where we erect Hitler and Stalin statues? Yamamoto? Mountain Dew Gamefuel is not your friend.

Outlaw Pete

20Cent wrote: »

Two "proud boys" found guilty of gang assault in New York. This means the courts see them as a gang and can prosecute them as such. Lots of black and yellow t shirts will be hitting the bin this week.

Wait a minute.... earlier you were saying:

20Cent wrote: »

Another good thing antifa do is show that these intimidating characters are actually weak cowards when confronted. All mouth no Spartan so to speak.

So out of one side of your mouth you say they are "weak cowards" when confronted and then out of the other side of your mouth you applaud them getting done for fighting Antifa after they confronted them ... which is it man? :P

Two Members of Proud Boys Found Guilty

Footage of the altercation from October 11, at the New York City Republican Club, shows at least four hooded people dressed in black believed to be Antifa.

One member of the group throws a bottle, which then leads the men allegedly from the Proud Boys to race towards the group - a fight then ensues.

Defense lawyers Jack Goldberg and Ronald Paul Hart claimed that after the bottle was thrown tension escalated, according to the Wall Street Journal.

They say Kinsman and Hare felt the need to defend themselves.

Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass argued that the pair went above what was a justified response.

'What these defendants did was beyond overkill,' Steinglass said, the Journal wrote. 'Words alone, unaccompanied by physical threats or acts does not make a person the original aggressor.'

Steinglass added that 'within 10 seconds' every Antifa member had been either knocked to the ground or was running away'

McInnes, the Proud Boys' leader at the time of the incident, who has since stepped down said he is no longer affiliated with the group.

Speaking on the verdict, he told the Journal, 'I think it’s a travesty of justice. I’m stunned.'

Seems to me it was Antifa acting like cowards, throwing bottles (of piss apparently) and then running away (according to the prosecution).

Did some members of the Proud Boys react to harshly? Perhaps, but masked thugs coming at another group of men, goaded them, throwing bottles at them, generally doesn't end too well.

Antifa also had broken the windows in the club the talk was being held in that night, vandalising the door, breaking the windows, supergluing the door's security keypad, and even mugged some guy and stealing his backpack.




End of the day, antifa clearly wanted to confront the Proud Boys, and went out of their way in order to do so, and then when they did, they yet again got their arses handed to them, and so it's kind hard to have much empathy for them for that reason. Anyone who goes looking for a row and finds one, kinda deserves an ass kicking if one comes their way.


Anyway, in other news, see this Antifa chick recently got 20 days in jail for slapping a Trump supporter two years back.

Can only be a good thing that these kind of assaults are resulting in people being brought to court more and more. End of the day violence is only justifiable if it's in self defense, and even then, as long as it can reasonably be considered to be a proportionate response.

Outlaw Pete

Billy Mays wrote: »

I can post an image of the poster for the rally again if you so wish. I'm sure you've seen it before though

Oh I have, I have...

That's the 'Unite The Right' poster that had silhouettes of all the confederate statues on it which were targeted for removal (one of which was Jefferson Davis) and it was laughingly said in the Politics forum (while attempting to make the same argument you are now) that Jefferson was clearly giving the old Sieg Heil salute. A man who died in 1865! :P






Yeah, you're gonna have to do better than that I'm afraid.