Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Ironicname

20Cent wrote: »

Got the two grifters mixed up so what.
They are both massive hypocrites imo anyway.

Accuse sounds like it's a bad thing. Of course it's not no one cares except homophobes.

Whatever.

I personally don't believe that you got them mixed up but I couldn't care less really. I pulled you up for your lie/mistake and I'm happy to leave it at that.

Accuse is a bad thing. When I replied to your comment, you had accused him of being a liar about his sexuality (by calling him homosexual) and that fact made him the ultimate hypocrite.

But through deflection, you have somehow managed to horseshoe in remarks trying to frame it as though somehow I am alt right and have a problem with homosexuality.

It would have been so refreshing if you could have just come out and said "my bad, I genuinely got Crowder and Rubin mixed up, I take that back" but instead you went on the offensive and tried to weasel the conversation around to make someone else look bad because of your "mistake"

notobtuse

Overheal wrote: »

Show me on a map of the US where we erect Hitler and Stalin statues? Yamamoto? Mountain Dew Gamefuel is not your friend.

Hitler and Stalin weren't great military leaders. Yamamoto is studied. No statues but watch the History channel or American Heroes Channel any day of the week and you're sure to see some documentary where enemy great military minds are profiled. Just watched one Sunday which profiled Karl Donitz and his wolf pack tactics.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

...

I think this one will be even harder for social justice warriors to get removed…

The ALT-Right movement of belittling and censoring those speaking up for minorities.

notobtuse wrote: »

If I'd agree with you then we'd both be wrong. I guess it's differences in culture between the US and wherever you live. Here, great military minds are respected and celebrated... even enemies.

Apologist drivel. I await the statue of Khrushchev to celebrate his strategy of placing missiles in Cuba and Ho Chi Minh for the guerrilla tactics that took down a first world western army :rolleyes:

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Hitler and Stalin weren't great military leaders. Yamamoto is studied. No statues but watch the History channel or American Heroes Channel any day of the week and you're sure to see some documentary where enemy great military minds are profiled. Just watched one Sunday which profiled Karl Donitz and his wolf pack tactics.

You're doing gymnastics now. Who are celebrated with statues?
General Lee is more well known for the Dukes of Hazard ffs...

20Cent

You can see the misinformation pipeline at work in realtime on twitter. Andy Ngo lies about incidents to make out antifa are the aggressor and the fascists the victims. Ngo then goes on msm and Carlson Tuckers programme. Trump sees it and announces he wants to designate left wing protesters as terrorists.

Everyone left and right should be worried about this. If you believe in freedom that is. The jump to authoritarian rule doesn't take much.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Sounds disgusting. But at least I understand the reference now.

It's actually rather good.

I can’t show you proof you’d accept. I’m stating ng an opinion that most civil war statues were erected during the Jim Crowe era to remind black people who was in charge. If you look at the timeline for when these statues are put up it peaks around the times when there was moves forward in civil rights.

If you’re a proud American, why would you put up a statue to someone who was a traitor? I don’t understand how you can be a flag waving patriot and proud of a confederate general at the same time.

So, you got nothing, then.

We can be proud of great military minds. We can also somewhat understand those who fight for their states against a perceived tyrannical government wanting to keep them down. Only a small percentage of those who fought for the South owned slaves. Even blacks owned slaves. I've been watching specials on the Civil War the last few days. One event in particular, just before the war, caused many Southerners to join the Confederacy. John Brown was telling slaves to kill their masters and families... men, women, and children. That didn't sit well. Military reenactments of Civil War battles happen all over the country every year to celebrate history. One happens every year near me. I guess it is something uniquely American.

https://www.crazycrow.com/site/event/lehigh-valley-civil-war-days/

Woodsie1

20Cent wrote: »

You can see the misinformation pipeline at work in realtime on twitter. Andy Ngo lies about incidents to make out antifa are the aggressor and the fascists the victims. Ngo then goes on msm and Carlson Tuckers programme. Trump sees it and announces he wants to designate left wing protesters as terrorists.

Everyone left and right should be worried about this. If you believe in freedom that is. The jump to authoritarian rule doesn't take much.

Give over,You were caught out spoofing and exaggerating already.
Antifa were still attacking people they didn't like in Portland long after the proud boys were gone

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

It's actually rather good.



So, you got nothing, then.

It seems you need this spoon fed to you. Here is the timeline for when the memorials were built. You’re free to draw your own conclusions, I’m pretty sure mine are correct.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/16/us/confederate-monuments-backlash-chart-trnd/index.html

We can be proud of great military minds. We can also somewhat understand those who fight for their states against a perceived tyrannical government wanting to keep them down. Only a small percentage of those who fought for the South owned slaves. Even blacks owned slaves. I've been watching specials on the Civil War the last few days. One event in particular, just before the war, caused many Southerners to join the Confederacy. John Brown was telling slaves to kill their masters and families... men, women, and children. That didn't sit well. Military reenactments of Civil War battles happen all over the country every year to celebrate history. One happens every year near me. I guess it is something uniquely American.

https://www.crazycrow.com/site/event/lehigh-valley-civil-war-days/

I understand studying great military minds. I don’t understand celebrating someone who betrayed their country in the name of owning slaves.

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

It's actually rather good.



So, you got nothing, then.

We can be proud of great military minds. We can also somewhat understand those who fight for their states against a perceived tyrannical government wanting to keep them down. Only a small percentage of those who fought for the South owned slaves. Even blacks owned slaves. I've been watching specials on the Civil War the last few days. One event in particular, just before the war, caused many Southerners to join the Confederacy. John Brown was telling slaves to kill their masters and families... men, women, and children. That didn't sit well. Military reenactments of Civil War battles happen all over the country every year to celebrate history. One happens every year near me. I guess it is something uniquely American.

https://www.crazycrow.com/site/event/lehigh-valley-civil-war-days/

You dodged my previous question, glaringly.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

It seems you need this spoon fed to you. Here is the timeline for when the memorials were built. You’re free to draw your own conclusions, I’m pretty sure mine are correct.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/16/us/confederate-monuments-backlash-chart-trnd/index.html




I understand studying great military minds. I don’t understand celebrating someone who betrayed their country in the name of owning slaves.

Revisionist history. Oh, I get it that slime-ball politicians seek advantage for themselves by reopening old wounds in an attempt to try to divide the country. But bottom line is those Confederate statues honor soldier’s valor... not beliefs. They remember not just the dead but an old-fashioned military concept… "duty faithfully performed."

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

Revisionist history. Oh, I get it that slime-ball politicians seek advantage for themselves by reopening old wounds in an attempt to try to divide the country. But bottom line is those Confederate statues honor soldier’s valor... not beliefs. They remember not just the dead but an old-fashioned military concept… "duty faithfully performed."

Again: why no Hitler or Stalin statues? If we are just celebrating great military minds

mynamejeff

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The ALT-Right movement of belittling and censoring those speaking up for minorities.



Apologist drivel. I await the statue of Khrushchev to celebrate his strategy of placing missiles in Cuba and Ho Chi Minh for the guerrilla tactics that took down a first world western army :rolleyes:

heres on in the japan will that do ?

https://vacusa.wordpress.com/2017/12/01/request-to-remove-ho-chi-minhs-statue-at-the-museum-of-mimasaka-city/

or UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-22587514

mynamejeff

Brian? wrote: »

I understand studying great military minds. I don’t understand celebrating someone who betrayed their country in the name of owning slaves.

Do you believe that the primary reason for the american civil war was slavery ?

really ?

heres a link to google , go nuts

https://www.google.com/

Overheal

mynamejeff wrote: »

Do you believe that the primary reason for the american civil war was slavery ?

really ?

heres a link to google , go nuts

https://www.google.com/

Try it yourself, start with “slavery in the confederate constitution”

Brian?

mynamejeff wrote: »

Do you believe that the primary reason for the american civil war was slavery ?

really ?

heres a link to google , go nuts

https://www.google.com/

It was the primary cause.

Tony EH

Brian? wrote: »

It was the primary cause.

No, it wasn't Brian. The American Civil War was caused by a number of complex issues, with the issue of slavery being one of them as the South's economy was wrapped up in it.

But it wasn't the single issue, or the primary cause either for the war either.

There's an awful lot of historical inaccuracy going on in this thread and it's doing neither side any favours at all. It might be better if all this talk of Lee, Rommel or the Civil War is left out of a discussion about Antifa, to be honest.

Overheal

Tony EH wrote: »

No, it wasn't Brian. The American Civil War was caused by a number of complex issues, with the issue of slavery being one of them as the South's economy was wrapped up in it.

But it wasn't the single issue, or the primary cause either for the war either.

There's an awful lot of historical inaccuracy going on in this thread and it's doing neither side any favours at all.

Yeah, so why don’t you stop spreading it? Because slavery was one of and the primary cause for the civil war.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Revisionist history. Oh, I get it that slime-ball politicians seek advantage for themselves by reopening old wounds in an attempt to try to divide the country. But bottom line is those Confederate statues honor soldier’s valor... not beliefs. They remember not just the dead but an old-fashioned military concept… "duty faithfully performed."

It was their duty to rebel against their own government when there was a chance Slavery was going to be made illegal. That’s a funny sort of duty to honour.

Tony EH

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah, so why don’t you stop spreading it? Because slavery was one of and the primary cause for the civil war.

That's a post war construct. Not even the Union went to war over slavery.

Outlaw Pete

Billy Mays wrote: »

And if you're so sure I'm making the argument that Davis is giving a seig heil salute in the image find a quote of mine anywhere on these boards where I've ever made such a claim. Hint: you won't

Didn't say that you had cited the Davis statue, hence my linking to a post from a use who had.

Look, it's obvious by now that you feel you have to defend Daddy every time he puts his foot in it but sticking up for protests organized by neo nazis/white supremacists isn't really a good look

Surprise surprise, resorting to ad hominem snipe fwhen the facts don't support your position. You people just can't help yourselves can you. You know why? Cause that's what it's all about for most of the left. Discussion is never the aim. Which is of course why Antifa have tried to silence so many talks from those they don't agree with.

Look, none of the arguments which have been made thus far (in an attempt to show that there were no "fine people" marching against the removal of the Lee statue) have been coherent. Even if the Unite The Right poster had swastikas all over it, it still wouldn't make everyone marching a Neo-Nazi or a White Supremacist. The clue is in the bloody name 'Unite' the right. There was a call for all non-lefties to come together and tackle the problem of the ever more authoritarian actions of the left.

Unless of course you think anyone who is right of centre politically is white supremacist, which wouldn't surprise me given some of the crap I've seen you say and endorse. For example you thanked this muck in the Politics forum:

The Republican party is pretty much the party of white supremacy

Which is kind of an embarrassing remark to make given the origins of the KKK. Not that we have to go back that far to find the democrat bigots. In Congress all southern Democratic senators voted against the Civil Rights Act in '64 and in the house 92 out of 103 southern Democrats voted against it. The 74-day filibustering was democrat led too.

Liberals across western society just use minorities. Faux compassion, pandering as they go, have done for years. Minorities are votes to them, little else. A chance to virtue signal too of course while simultaneously suggesting that their counterparts are wacists. It's always been centrists and those right of centre who have treated minorities more respectfully.

If it's not Hillary with her hotsauce, or Harris with her Tupac and Snoop CDs in the 80s, you'll always find liberals pandering in some way and thankfully much of the black community (in particular) is waking up to that now, they see they've been used. You only have to look at how leftists speak to black people whenever they declare themselves republican to see their true colours, as immediately out come the insults of coon and Uncle Tom. They're the ultimate race baiters.

If the conservative party was the party of white supremacy though, wouldn't you think that would be reflective of conservatives in general. It should, but it's not. Tons of videos about of black people saying they never get racially abused or made to feel unwelcome around conservatives. Here's just one example (below):

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1003484759534624769

Brian?

Tony EH wrote: »

No, it wasn't Brian. The American Civil War was caused by a number of complex issues, with the issue of slavery being one of them as the South's economy was wrapped up in it.

But it wasn't the single issue, or the primary cause either for the war either.

There's an awful lot of historical inaccuracy going on in this thread and it's doing neither side any favours at all. It might be better if all this talk of Lee, Rommel or the Civil War is left out of a discussion about Antifa, to be honest.

It was the primary cause. There were a number of other factors, but it was the issue of slavery that pushed it over the edge into war.

People often say it was about State v Federal rights. That’s true, but what was the issue that was a source of tension between the south and the north. It was slavery.

There was also a fight about the expansion of slavery into new states added to the union.

The South were being left behind economically because the north was industrialising and the southern economy was based on agriculture. Agriculture run by slave labour.

All of the “complex issues” come back to slavery.

Overheal

Billy Mays

notobtuse wrote: »

Revisionist history. Oh, I get it that slime-ball politicians seek advantage for themselves by reopening old wounds in an attempt to try to divide the country. But bottom line is those Confederate statues honor soldier’s valor... not beliefs. They remember not just the dead but an old-fashioned military concept… "duty faithfully performed."

Donald says "hi"

Tony EH

Brian? wrote: »

It was the primary cause.

No, it was A cause. But not THE cause.

In fact, a lot of people in the Union were apathetic towards slavery and some were even well disposed to it.

It became the major cause DURING the war as Lincoln sought to make it the single issue, mainly to usher international support.

But the war did not kick off because of it and not every Confederate fought for that reason.

That doesn't let the Confederate states off the hook for their use of slavery in their economy, nor does it let those "the South will rise again" idiots away with their drivel either.

But history matters, and when it's reduced to a cheap political football, everyone loses.

Complex matters shouldn't be boiled down to soundbites.

Brian?

Tony EH wrote: »

No, it was A cause. But not THE cause.

In fact, a lot of people in the Union were apathetic towards slavery and some were even well disposed to it.

It became the major cause DURING the war as Lincoln sought to make it the single issue, mainly to usher international support.

But the war did not kick off because of it and not every Confederate fought for that reason.

That doesn't let the Confederate states off the hook for their use of slavery in their economy, nor does it let those "the South will rise again" idiots away with their drivel either.

But history matters, and when it's reduced to a cheap political football, everyone loses.

Complex matters shouldn't be boiled down to soundbites.

Actually if you go to the horses mouth and read the quotes from the time, the confederate leaders were quite vocal that slavery was the cause. So much so they enshrined the right to own slaves in the Confederate constitution.

I used to take the view it was far more complicated and slavery wasn’t the main
Issue. Turns out I was wrong. I’ll try to dig up some reading.

notobtuse

Overheal wrote: »

Again: why no Hitler or Stalin statues? If we are just celebrating great military minds

Already answered.

Tony EH

Brian? wrote: »

Actually if you go to the horses mouth and read the quotes from the time, the confederate leaders were quite vocal that slavery was the cause. So much so they enshrined the right to own slaves in the Confederate constitution.

I used to take the view it was far more complicated and slavery wasn’t the main
Issue. Turns out I was wrong. I’ll try to dig up some reading.

I'm sure both you and I and everyone else could dig up a lot of quotes from Confederate personnel that showed they supported slavery. But it still wouldn't make it the the cause of the start of the Civil War.

It, bluntly, just wasn't that simple Brian.

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

Hitler and Stalin weren't great military leaders. Yamamoto is studied. No statues but watch the History channel or American Heroes Channel any day of the week and you're sure to see some documentary where enemy great military minds are profiled. Just watched one Sunday which profiled Karl Donitz and his wolf pack tactics.

But they were great. So anyway I’ll ask again another way: where in the US do we have statues of great military minds that are our enemies? Leaving aside confederate traitors.

Overheal

Tony EH wrote: »

I'm sure both you and I and everyone else could dig up a lot of quotes from Confederate personnel that showed they supported slavery. But it still wouldn't make it the the cause of the start of the Civil War.

It, bluntly, just wasn't that simple Brian.

You haven’t made the case for what was the alternate primary cause in your thesis.

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Already answered.

Ho Chi Minh statue going up near any city halls down south?