Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Ironicname

Brian? wrote: »

Also what’s the “form” you keep referring to? Are you implying I’m not debating fairly?

Yes. I am.

I haven't been fooled into anything. I see a masked gang going around and assaulting people who disagree with them wherever they see fit.

If you've not seen any footage of that then fair enough. I'd be surprised though.

I did find the Crowder video interesting and I did agree with the majority of the content. My opinion wasn't swayed by it but I found that he articulated points that I perhaps couldn't do as succinctly.

Just because something is interesting doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it btw. I find that it's best to listen to all sides. It can be quite interesting. Interesting does not equate to agreement. Sounds like anything you don't agree with is boring to you. Little echo-chamber esque

Brian?

Ironicname wrote: »

Yes. I am.

I haven't been fooled into anything. I see a masked gang going around and assaulting people who disagree with them wherever they see fit.

If you've not seen any footage of that then fair enough. I'd be surprised though.

I did find the Crowder video interesting and I did agree with the majority of the content. My opinion wasn't swayed by it but I found that he articulated points that I perhaps couldn't do as succinctly.

Just because something is interesting doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it btw. I find that it's best to listen to all sides. It can be quite interesting. Interesting does not equate to agreement. Sounds like anything you don't agree with is boring to you. Little echo-chamber esque

This is a circular argument. I’m going to bow out.

For anyone who cares. I agree with everything Trevor Noah says here, but still think it’s silly to call Antifa terrorists. It minimises the term terrorist and gives comfort to the fascists they counter protest.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/09/antifa-violence-trevor-noah-daily-show

Ironicname

Brian? wrote: »

This is a circular argument. I’m going to bow out.

For anyone who cares. I agree with everything Trevor Noah says here, but still think it’s silly to call Antifa terrorists. It minimises the term terrorist and gives comfort to the fascists they counter protest.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/09/antifa-violence-trevor-noah-daily-show

For what it's worth, I do think the word terrorist is extreme. In much the same way when antifa call proud boys Nazis or white supremacists.

I'll gladly retract my description of antifa as terrorists and instead call them a terrible, violent mob.

notobtuse

The Department of Homeland Security formally classified Antifa’s activities as “domestic terrorist violence” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO. And FBI and DHS reports confirm they are actively monitoring “conduct deemed potentially suspicious and indicative of terrorist activity” by Antifa groups.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235?_ga=2.258510282.1165616531.1566488201-995527392.1566488201

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

The Department of Homeland Security formally classified Antifa’s activities as “domestic terrorist violence” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO. And FBI and DHS reports confirm they are actively monitoring “conduct deemed potentially suspicious and indicative of terrorist activity” by Antifa groups.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235?_ga=2.258510282.1165616531.1566488201-995527392.1566488201

Is this the same organisation oversees putting children in cages? TBF, when the WH is fascist I can see the justification.

20Cent

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Is this the same organisation oversees putting children in cages? TBF, when the WH is fascist I can see the justification.

Yeah some two year old article stating second hand information.
If they had really designated them as terrorists we'd know all about it by now.

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Is this the same organisation oversees putting children in cages? TBF, when the WH is fascist I can see the justification.

And here comes Matt to prove my point. If you can call the White House fascist, then antifa are by proxy against the democratically elected president of America.

Anyone whose politics they are against are fascist and that is why antifa are so odious. Their diktat can change depending on the day.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

And here comes Matt to prove my point. If you can call the White House fascist, then antifa are by proxy against the democratically elected president of America.

Anyone whose politics they are against are fascist and that is why antifa are so odious. Their diktat can change depending on the day.

And here comes Ironic name something something..wah wah, etc. etc. phnar phnar, (am I doing it right?).

I agree we need hard rules for organisations to adhere to and be judged upon. I believe they are a movement of many sub groups. Being fearful of change and defending bigots isn't a good reason though.

notobtuse

20Cent wrote: »

Yeah some two year old article stating second hand information.

If they had really designated them as terrorists we'd know all about it by now.
Too many words for you to read? "The FBI and DHS had no comment on that, or on any aspect of the assessments, saying they were not intended to be made public."

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Too many words for you to read? "The FBI and DHS had no comment on that, or on any aspect of the assessments, saying they were not intended to be made public."

But aren't the FBI liars? TBF, does anyone think the US gov is credible anymore? The poor country needs a revolution, peaceful mind. Trump needs mental help IMO.

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote: »

And here comes Ironic name something something..wah wah, etc. etc. phnar phnar, (am I doing it right?).

I agree we need hard rules for organisations to adhere to and be judged upon. I believe they are a movement of many sub groups. Being fearful of change and defending bigots isn't a good reason though.

Whatever you are doing, no, you are doing it wrong.

Being fearful of change? What are you talking about?

Defending bigots? Again, what are you talking about?

You do realise that the definition of a bigot is someone who is intolerant towards others who hold a different opinion?

Can you see some hypocrisy there?

Tony EH

Antifa may be misguided and in some cases foolish. But calling them "terrorists" is just flat out silly.

Ironicname

Tony EH wrote: »

Antifa may be misguided and in some cases foolish. But calling them "terrorists" is just flat out silly.

I kind of agree. A violent hate group is more accurate.

mynamejeff

Ironicname wrote: »

I kind of agree. A violent hate group is more accurate.

even thats giving them too much credit .

a group of infantile idiots living under the protection of those they hate who attack in mobs people who have ideas they disagree with when they believe there will be no consequences

Brian?

Ironicname wrote: »

I kind of agree. A violent hate group is more accurate.

I prefer “occasionally violent, often silly geese”.

Ironicname

mynamejeff wrote: »

even thats giving them too much credit .

a group of infantile idiots living under the protection of those they hate who attack in mobs people who have ideas they disagree with when they believe there will be no consequences

Hey... Less of that Jeff. You are obviously an alt right fascist unless you condone the "good" violence

notobtuse

The FBI defines domestic terrorism as acts "perpetrated by individuals and/or groups inspired by or associated with primarily U.S.-based movements that espouse extremist ideologies of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature."

Antifa – Check

- - - - - - - -

The USA Patriot Act from 2001 defines domestic terrorism as a dangerous act occurring within U.S. territory that violates criminal laws in ways that are "intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping." That definition is also in the U.S. Government Code, the 53 title compilation of federal legal statutes.

Antifa – Check

Ironicname

notobtuse wrote: »

The FBI defines domestic terrorism as acts "perpetrated by individuals and/or groups inspired by or associated with primarily U.S.-based movements that espouse extremist ideologies of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature."

Antifa – Check

- - - - - - - -

The USA Patriot Act from 2001 defines domestic terrorism as a dangerous act occurring within U.S. territory that violates criminal laws in ways that are "intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping." That definition is also in the U.S. Government Code, the 53 title compilation of federal legal statutes.

Antifa – Check

While I agree that antifa could technically be labeled as a terrorist group, I'd prefer to differentiate between them and the likes of Al Qaeda.

Otherwise we run the risk of falling into the same trap as the idiots who equate Trump/Proud Boys as fascists or white supremacists

Edit. That is in no way saying that it could ever be correct in saying trump or the proud boys are fascists or white supremacists. Probably a bad analogy.

My point is that antifa are horrendous but the word terrorist should not be bandied about in the way Nazi and bigot are.

Words should hold meaning

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

The FBI defines domestic terrorism as acts "perpetrated by individuals and/or groups inspired by or associated with primarily U.S.-based movements that espouse extremist ideologies of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature."

Antifa – Check

- - - - - - - -

The USA Patriot Act from 2001 defines domestic terrorism as a dangerous act occurring within U.S. territory that violates criminal laws in ways that are "intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping." That definition is also in the U.S. Government Code, the 53 title compilation of federal legal statutes.

Antifa – Check

Lol.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

Hey... Less of that Jeff. You are obviously an alt right fascist unless you condone the "good" violence

Point out who's condoning violence or are you spinning yarns?

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Point out who's condoning violence or are you spinning yarns?

Ah Matt, that was obviously a light-hearted joke but while I have you, the refusal to condemn Antifas violent actions by certain posters (read back into the thread if you want to see who, I shan't name names) is tantamount to condoning.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

Ah Matt, that was obviously a light-hearted joke but while I have you, the refusal to condemn Antifas violent actions by certain posters (read back into the thread if you want to see who, I shan't name names) is tantamount to condoning.

So just waffling. Fair enough.

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So just waffling. Fair enough.

You have an amazing ability to glean meaning from words to suit your narrative.

I never said I was waffling. I said I was making a joke. A joke which was obvious.

You know this though. Yet you purposely try to demean and belittle my comments.

Overheal

Ironicname wrote: »

You have an amazing ability to glean meaning from words to suit your narrative.

I never said I was waffling. I said I was making a joke. A joke which was obvious.

You know this though. Yet you purposely try to demean and belittle my comments.

You have an amazing ability to glean meaning from words to suit your narrative. He never said he was demeaning or belittling you. This should be obvious. You know this.

Ironicname

Overheal wrote: »

You have an amazing ability to glean meaning from words to suit your narrative. He never said he was demeaning or belittling you. This should be obvious. You know this.

Jesus. It's catching.

He said I was waffling. This was demeaning and belittled my comment.

notobtuse

Ironicname wrote: »

While I agree that antifa could technically be labeled as a terrorist group, I'd prefer to differentiate between them and the likes of Al Qaeda.

Otherwise we run the risk of falling into the same trap as the idiots who equate Trump/Proud Boys as fascists or white supremacists

Edit. That is in no way saying that it could ever be correct in saying trump or the proud boys are fascists or white supremacists. Probably a bad analogy.

My point is that antifa are horrendous but the word terrorist should not be bandied about in the way Nazi and bigot are.

Words should hold meaning

But right now being involved in domestic terrorism means nothing to law enforcement. There is nothing they can do to stop it and must rely on other crimes to prosecute only after it happens as the classification has no legal meaning. So even though they fit the bill of being a domestic terroristic organization… it means diddly squat. Legislation would be needed to give any teeth to it.

Overheal

Ironicname wrote: »

Jesus. It's catching.

He said I was waffling. This was demeaning and belittled my comment.

You were waffling though, so how was it demeaning and belittling to call it what it was?

Tissue?

20Cent

notobtuse wrote: »

Too many words for you to read? "The FBI and DHS had no comment on that, or on any aspect of the assessments, saying they were not intended to be made public."

Oh so they are secretly designated as terrorists not publicly. They'd be the easiest terrorists in the workd to catch but they aren't for some reason. This is qanon level bull****.

Ironicname

Overheal wrote: »

You were waffling though, so how was it demeaning and belittling to call it what it was?

Tissue?

Good one.

notobtuse

20Cent wrote: »

Oh so they are secretly designated as terrorists not publicly. They'd be the easiest terrorists in the workd to catch but they aren't for some reason. This is qanon level bull****.

Read my post #4047. Not a lot of words in it.