Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Overheal

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Who said they were?

I merely point out that one of the was a lie. Which it is.

You claim it’s a lie because he announced X. Doesn’t mean Y isn’t also true. Like politicians who say they’re resigning for “health reasons” or Pundits who go on ‘totally preplanned vacations’ that always coincide with getting themselves embroiled in scandal or controversy and usually involves losing advertisers.

Ironicname

Overheal wrote: »

That’s not my claim. I’ve only pointed out that the two claims are not mutually exclusive from one another; that’s not evidentiary that’s just logic.

Fish swim in water.

It's a fact. Absolutely no relevance to your statement. Just thought I'd throw it out there like you did with your absolutely irrelevant comment.

Outlaw Pete

Brian? wrote: »

I never said I support Antifa.

I am sympathetic to their stated aim of opposing fascism and believe the Antifa hyperbole is silly.

That may be the 50th time I’ve said that.

Many people were sympathetic to the aims of the PIRA too but they didn't go around defending them as they was disgusted by their actions.

That you defend Antifa so much is highly indicative of you being okay with much of their behaviour.

Overheal

Ironicname wrote: »

Fish swim in water.

It's a fact. Absolutely no relevance to your statement. Just thought I'd throw it out there like you did with your absolutely irrelevant comment.

Cool. Giraffes are tall. Got more?

p1akuw47h5r3it

Brian? wrote: »

I never said I support Antifa.

I am sympathetic to their stated aim of opposing fascism and believe the Antifa hyperbole is silly.

That may be the 50th time I’ve said that.

Yet you seem very intent on always defending them, and seem to be in cahoots with those that openly support them. As has been pointed out to you it quite possible to be opposed fascism without supporting or being sympathetic to Antifa.

Overheal

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Many people were sympathetic to the aims of the PIRA too but they didn't go around defending them as they was disgusted by their actions.

That you defend them so much is highly indicative of you being okay with much of their behaviour.

Tu quoque: people defending proud boys, highly indicative of defending their behavior...

https://gothamist.com/2019/08/20/proud_boys_convicted_nyc.php

James Brown

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Yet you seem very intent on always defending them, and seem to be in cahoots with those that openly support them. As has been pointed out to you it quite possible to be opposed fascism without supporting or being sympathetic to Antifa.

I'm sympathetic to the Antifa movement. I wish there was no violence but you can spot the Alt-Right and bigots by their obsession with an organisation that's Anti Fascist.
Do you think the proud Boys, KKK, Trump and the like are only concerned about your freedom of speech?

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do you think the proud Boys, KKK, Trump and the like are only concerned about your freedom of speech?

The proud boys and trump have publicly denounced and disavowed the KKK. They are nothing alike.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

The proud boys and trump have publicly denounced and disavowed the KKK. They are nothing alike.

I disagree. The KKK are more honest maybe.
It's very telling when you have to disassociate yourself with such organisations.

Overheal

Ironicname wrote: »

The proud boys and trump have publicly denounced and disavowed the KKK. They are nothing alike.

They are plenty alike, with the Grand Wizard singing Trump’s praises constantly. Heck the KKK and Proud Boys both fly the same swastikas and/or proudly march alongside them so it’s blatantly disingenuous to say they are nothing alike.

Outlaw Pete

Overheal wrote: »

You claim it’s a lie because he announced X. Doesn’t mean Y isn’t also true. Like politicians who say they’re resigning for “health reasons” or Pundits who go on ‘totally preplanned vacations’ that always coincide with getting themselves embroiled in scandal or controversy and usually involves losing advertisers.

This is the oddest fcuking reply I think I have ever seen on Boards and that's saying something.

If a person gets stopped at a checkpoint and is arrested for being drunk and someone falsely claims that they were in fact arrested for being in possession of two kilos of cocaine, despite zero fcuking evidence of it......merely pointing out that these the two things are not mutually exclusive in no way excuses the false claim ffs!!

I can't believe I am having this conversation.

Again, nobody said quitting to help a court case and quitting out of disgust of violence are mutually exclusive.... the point is one is true and the other is not and there is zero evidence of the latter, therefore it couldn't be less relevant that two things are not mutually exclusive.

It's neither here nor fcuking there! Honestly.

Ironicname

Overheal wrote: »

They are plenty alike, with the Grand Wizard singing Trump’s praises constantly. Heck the KKK and Proud Boys both fly the same swastikas so it’s blatantly disingenuous to say they are nothing alike.

Well there is absolutely no point in continuing a conversation with you regarding this then.

If you think that the KKK, Donald Trump and the Proud Boys are all alike, then there can be no civil dialogue. You are blatantly wrong and to be honest, foolish in your beliefs.

You will undoubtedly say the same to me so it's probably best to not interact

Overheal

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

This is the oddest fcuking reply I think I have ever seen on Boards and that's saying something.

If a person gets stopped at a checkpoint and is arrested for being drunk and someone falsely claims that they were in fact arrested for being in possession of two kilos of cocaine, despite zero fcuking evidence of it......merely pointing out that these the two things are not mutually exclusive in no way excuses the false allegation ffs!!

I can't believe I am having this conversation.

Again, nobody said quitting to help a court case and quitting out of disgust of violence are mutually exclusive.... the point is one is true and the other is not and there is zero evidence of the latter, therefore it couldn't be less relevant that two things are not mutually exclusive.

It's neither here nor fcuking there! Honestly.

You’re drawing a false equivalence between an evidentiary criminal matter involving narcotics and physical evidence and a case where the proud boys founder publicly announced his resignation in one way that was widely understood to be much broader - exactly as I said in the same way a politician would resign for “undisclosed health reasons” on paper even though it is broadly and publicly known they were mired in scandal and had made themselves a pariah.

It would be like you trying to argue that if Theresa May resigned for “health reasons”, that it is the end of the story, period, she quit for health reasons and anyone who points out her ****show of a political career are just lying according to you about why she quit.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm sympathetic to the Antifa movement. I wish there was no violence but you can spot the Alt-Right and bigots by their obsession with an organisation that's Anti Fascist.
Do you think the proud Boys, KKK, Trump and the like are only concerned about your freedom of speech?

I'm neither are supporter nor have much time for any of those groups/people. The KKK quite obviously are not interested in my free speech. Who knows what Trump is concerned with and I've only come across the proud boys here and there online. How is that question even relevant though?

Regardless, taking the law into your own hands, rioting, bullying, going around with a hero complexion, believing that you (or Antifa are) somehow akin to the people who fought the actual nazis is preposterous and does nothing to solve the problem of White-nationalism.

Almost all political ideologies are opposed to fascism ranging from Communists all the way to free-market Capitalists. So why one feel the need to support a group or a collection of groups who are openly militant is beyond me. It has been shown many times on this thread the violent acts that Antifa have engaged in. Regardless of how much worse the far-right maybe Antifa aren't much better, and the claim to be anti-violence but pro-Antifa is absurd.

You wish there was no violence, but there is.

Outlaw Pete

Overheal wrote: »

You’re drawing a false equivalence between an evidentiary criminal matter involving narcotics and physical evidence and a case where the proud boys founder publicly announced his resignation in one way that was widely understood to be much broader - exactly as I said in the same way a politician would resign for “undisclosed health reasons” on paper even though it is broadly and publicly known they were mired in scandal and had made themselves a pariah.

It would be like you trying to argue that if Theresa May resigned for “health reasons”, that it is the end of the story, period, she quit for health reasons and anyone who points out her ****show of a political career are just lying according to you about why she quit.

/facepalm

What the hell are you on about?? This is laughable. I in no way attempted to draw an equivalence. Do you not know what an analogy is? I made it to try and show you how irrelevant the point you are making is. Clearly it went over your head. This is utterly bizarre.

Look, McInnes did NOT step down because he was disgusted with Proud Boy violence. That is false. It's a lie. End of fcuking story. You can prattle on as much as you like, using algebra and trigonometry if it makes you happy, but it won't make your point any more relevant.

Overheal

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

/facepalm

What the hell are you on about?? This is laughable. I in no way attempted to draw an equivalence. Do you not know what an analogy is? I made it to try and show you how irrelevant the point you are making is. Clearly it went over your head. This is utterly bizarre.

Uhm yes Pete, an analogy is where you try and draw similarities “ie. Equivalences” between two things; “logic: a process of arguing from similarity.”

Check your local dictionary.

Look, McInnes did NOT step down because he was disgusted with Proud Boy violence. That is false. It's a lie. End of fcuking story. You can prattle on as much as you like, using algebra and trigonometry if it makes you happy, but it won't make your point any more relevant.

He stepped down stating it was because he wanted to mitigate legal repercussions. That evidence doesn’t by itself negate the claim he might have been disgusted by the violence. What *does* negate the claim is his history of glorifying violence. Sorry, wasn’t trying to get into a whole lecture with you on proofs and negatives and **** but I just found it very odd that you chose not to simply point out his long history of being more than comfortable with violence, which would have been a solid rebuttal imho. I can see where our wires crossed though.

James Brown

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I'm neither are supporter nor have much time for any of those groups/people. The KKK quite obviously are not interested in my free speech. Who knows what Trump is concerned with and I've only come across the proud boys here and there online. How is that question even relevant though?

Regardless, taking the law into your own hands, rioting, bullying, going around with a hero complexion, believing that you (or Antifa are) somehow akin to the people who fought the actual nazis is preposterous and does nothing to solve the problem of White-nationalism.

Almost all political ideologies are opposed to fascism ranging from Communists all the way to free-market Capitalists. So why one feel the need to support a group or a collection of groups who are openly militant is beyond me. It has been shown many times on this thread the violent acts that Antifa have engaged in. Regardless of how much worse the far-right maybe Antifa aren't much better, and the claim to be anti-violence but pro-Antifa is absurd.

You wish there was no violence, but there is.

Not on your postings personally but the chat in here seems to be to let the Proud boys and other fascist groups be themselves without the likes of Anti Fa, the would be terrorist organisation, trying to silence them. It's whataboutery mainly, but the question I put is if Antifa are going after such hate groups why do people seem to have a concern for their free speech over and above the fact that they preach hate? The Proud Boys or charlottesville nazis aren't likely to be concerned about your civil rights, unless you're white maybe.
Do you think Mother Theresa had a 'hero complex'? Would it make her works any better or worse? Are you just trying to knock them? Do you think the Tiki torch silver spoon guys were humanitarians only in it for society?

Sadly there is a need for an Anti Fascist movement. Although any violence is wrong, I'd be criticising the Proud Boys and Trump for their hate speech and agenda long before I got distraught about any antifa related violence, not excusing it, just finding is hard to understand why so much hate for them, often in defense of hate groups.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Cool that they believe physically attacking others who are peacefully protesting with fists and weapons, breaking windows at business establishments, and setting fire to cars is merely engaging in "self-defense?" That they are unapologetic about the belief that fighting perceived fascism requires a physical and violent militancy?

Seriously man, calm down.

Brian?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Many people were sympathetic to the aims of the PIRA too but they didn't go around defending them as they was disgusted by their actions.

That you defend Antifa so much is highly indicative of you being okay with much of their behaviour.

When do I defend Antifa? It’s more that I attack the Antifa hate, which I feel is silly.

Brian?

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Yet you seem very intent on always defending them, and seem to be in cahoots with those that openly support them. As has been pointed out to you it quite possible to be opposed fascism without supporting or being sympathetic to Antifa.

Here we go again with this.


This thread just circles the same nonsense. I can’t think of a time when I defended Antifa’s carry on. I just disagree with the anti Antifa hyperbole.

Woodsie1

Overheal wrote: »

Uhm..... yes it is. So you didn’t watch it at all I see. You egg me on to watch it and you don’t even watch it yourself? Piss off with that. We don’t even have any confirmation it was a knife. You clearly didn’t watch the video and rather than engage my breakdown of it you just repeat the same misinformation. It doesn’t bother you in the slightest that the guy things he’s just stopped a stabbing and then turns his back on that alleged attacker? You’ve got blinders on.

You should take a break from this topic...your anger is getting the better of you...the video Brandon was watching is from another youtuber Son of Hightower.
It's you who's got the "blinkers" on.
Blinkers are what horses wear to make them look in only one direction.

Overheal

To be perfectly clear: Brandon is in the video, and the one who engaged the guy in the black hoodie aka. The suspected Antifa guy. Brandon plainly states that he stopped a stabbing.

“I stopped an attempted stabbing without him even knowing!” - Brandon

Woodsie1

Overheal wrote: »

To be perfectly clear: Brandon is in the video, and the one who engaged the guy in the black hoodie aka. The suspected Antifa guy. Brandon plainly states that he stopped a stabbing.

I know that but the video hes in isnt filmed by him or his crew.
Which was my point.
You tried to discredit the video because of Brandon and what you think of his channel,you were wrong just like you and your antifa cheerleaders usually are.

Overheal

Woodsie1 wrote: »

I know that but the video hes in isnt filmed by him or his crew.
Which was my point.
You tried to discredit the video because of Brandon and what you think of his channel,you were wrong just like you and your antifa cheerleaders usually are.

It was filmed by one of his buddies, how is that vastly different? He doesn’t even properly credit the other videographer if that’s the case.

Woodsie1

Overheal wrote: »

It was filmed by one of his buddies, how is that vastly different? He doesn’t even properly credit the other videographer if that’s the case.

Youve some cheek accusing me of not watching the video,when brandon at the start of the video thanks Son of Hightower for the video.
Usual guff and nonsense from your kind.

Overheal

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Youve some cheek accusing me of not watching the video,when brandon at the start of the video thanks Son of Hightower for the video.
Usual guff and nonsense from your kind.

What is my kind? Chill out. Maybe you should take a break from the thread you’re getting angry

p1akuw47h5r3it

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Not on your postings personally but the chat in here seems to be to let the Proud boys and other fascist groups be themselves without the likes of Anti Fa, the would be terrorist organisation, trying to silence them. It's whataboutery mainly, but the question I put is if Antifa are going after such hate groups why do people seem to have a concern for their free speech over and above the fact that they preach hate? The Proud Boys or charlottesville nazis aren't likely to be concerned about your civil rights, unless you're white maybe.

Because they have freedom of speech. It is not right in a democracy for people to be beaten up or intimidated for exercising that right regardless of how awful their speech is. This is what Antifa does.

I don't care if they are interested in my civil rights, but I'm interested in theirs, which is why I oppose Antifa who regularly engage in violence.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do you think Mother Theresa had a 'hero complex'? Would it make her works any better or worse? Are you just trying to knock them? Do you think the Tiki torch silver spoon guys were humanitarians only in it for society?

Yes I do. A despicable women. I'm knocking them as this thread is about Antifa, and I am opposed to any group who use violence, the threat of violence and intimidation to try and shut other people down when legally exercising their right to freedom of speech.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Sadly there is a need for an Anti Fascist movement.

No there isn't. The Far-right, KKK and White-nationalists are almost universally derided. As already stated, almost all political ideologies are opposed to Fascism

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Although any violence is wrong, I'd be criticising the Proud Boys and Trump for their hate speech and agenda long before I got distraught about any antifa related violence, not excusing it, just finding is hard to understand why so much hate for them, often in defense of hate groups.

Because antifa engage in violence and intimidation to suppress peoples right to freedom of speech and assembly. The fact that you'd be quicker to condemn hate-speech over actual violence says it all really.

Antifa have also targeted conservatives as opposed to Fascists before, as pointed out by the Anti-defamation League

Antifa have expanded their definition of fascist/fascism to include not just white supremacists and other extremists, but also many conservatives and supporters of President Trump. In Berkeley, for example, some antifa were captured on video harassing Trump supporters with no known extremist connections. Antifa have also falsely characterized some recent right wing rallies as “Nazi” events, even though they were not actually white supremacist in nature.

so the idea that they solely attack white nationalists and fascists is simply false.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/who-are-antifa

Woodsie1

Overheal wrote: »

What is my kind? Chill out. Maybe you should take a break from the thread you’re getting angry

Your kind are the Antifa cheerleaders.
Unlike you and your kind I dont get upset and angry at anonymous nobodies on the internet.
Try something more original next time.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Seriously man, calm down.

No outrage. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who support the stated aim of Antifa.

Overheal

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Your kind are the Antifa cheerleaders.
Unlike you and your kind I dont get upset and angry at anonymous nobodies on the internet.
Try something more original next time.

You seem to be getting angry: just moments ago you felt the need to imply I am a horse?

When have I ever cheered on any Antifa activity? I know my own post history, and it’s not there; if you find something do let me know boss.