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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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    #4202
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    Maybe if you are the kind of person who puts someone elses safety before your own you would understand.
    Brandon wasnt the target the innocent man on the bike was.


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    #4203
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,603 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Woodsie1 wrote: »
    Maybe if you are the kind of person who puts someone elses safety before your own you would understand.
    Brandon wasnt the target the innocent man on the bike was.

    Protecting others and protecting yourself aren’t mutually exclusive.

    See we will get nowhere with this: you’re going to continue to pretend that someone would turn their back on someone they thought was armed with intent to kill. I disagree. That’s about the gist of it.


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    #4204
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Do you have a better interpretation of what is going on in that video?
    All I see is black bloc chickens mobbing up on a single guy.

    In your interpretation, are they all just trying to get to the same bus home?


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    #4205
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    Overheal wrote: »
    Protecting others and protecting yourself aren’t mutually exclusive.

    See we will get nowhere with this: you’re going to continue to pretend that someone would turn their back on someone they thought was armed with intent to kill. I disagree. That’s about the gist of it.

    The antifa scum was targeting the man on the bike,nobody else.Once he was rumbled he put it away,thats why Brandon didnt look that concerned about being attacked himself.


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    #4206
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    notobtuse wrote: »
    No outrage. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who support the stated aim of Antifa.

    You don’t support the aim of opposing fascism?

    Or you don’t approve of how they oppose fascism?

    That’s 2 very different things.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4207
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Do you remember hearing about when Antifa International threw Molotov cocktails at a mosque in Kassel,Germany?
    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article175357294/Kassel-Polizei-prueft-Bekennerschreiben-zu-Brandanschlag-auf-Moschee.html


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    #4208
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    So you try to minimise their actions, down play their use of violence and label legitimate criticism of a violent group as "silly", "hyperbole" and "hate".
    But you don't defend them.:rolleyes:
    At least 20cent has the honesty to nail his colours to the mast.

    I don’t try to minimise their actions. I believe their actions aren’t really as bad as people make out.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4209
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,603 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    biko wrote: »
    Do you remember hearing about when Antifa International threw Molotov cocktails at a mosque in Kassel,Germany?
    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article175357294/Kassel-Polizei-prueft-Bekennerschreiben-zu-Brandanschlag-auf-Moschee.html

    Do you have a translated page I’m on mobile


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    #4210
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Brian? wrote: »
    You don’t support the aim of opposing fascism?

    Or you don’t approve of how they oppose fascism?

    That’s 2 very different things.
    I've already answered that in responses to you. I won't play some silly game of repeating myself because you either forget how I responded to you or you choose not to read what I write. How about looking at what I wrote and you tell me.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4211
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Overheal wrote: »
    Do you have a translated page I’m on mobile
    Just learn German :)


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    #4212
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,603 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    biko wrote: »
    Just learn German :)

    finnnne


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    #4213
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,603 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    biko wrote: »
    Do you remember hearing about when Antifa International threw Molotov cocktails at a mosque in Kassel,Germany?
    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article175357294/Kassel-Polizei-prueft-Bekennerschreiben-zu-Brandanschlag-auf-Moschee.html

    Was the statement ever authenticated after this report? If the letter is indeed accurate yes the group in Turkey made terrorist threats, if they did the bombings its terrorist action. Not unlike WUO in the US half a century ago.


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    #4214
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I've already answered that in responses to you. I won't play some silly game of repeating myself because you either forget how I responded to you or you choose not to read what I write. How about looking at what I wrote and you tell me.

    In fairness man, this is what I responded to:

    “No outrage. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who support the stated aim of Antifa”

    The stated aim of Antifa is to oppose fascism. I was giving you a chance to clarify that you also opposed fascism, in other words you also support the stated of Antifa.

    If I take what you said literally, you’re either calling yourself a hypocrite or you are not anti fascist.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4215
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Overheal wrote: »
    Gaslighting doesn’t change the peculiarity of exposing your back to a knifer.

    For him to have set up the video they would have had to enlist about 40 actors because the video starts off with dozens of Antifa pointing out the marine and then they all start to follow and harass him. How could he get them all to do that? They all have to be actors if it was a set up.

    With regards to the knife, it's pretty clear that the person puts it away when they are confronted and Brandon keeps checking to see where they are as they fall back. You can see that Brandon took one guy down later in the video that ran at him from behind and so he was clearly quite mindful that he could be attacked from behind at anytime and was taking measures to be prepared for that.

    Yet again it would seem that you are choosing to focus on something which has a very small probability of being true (that this was a set-up) just because it doesn't fit with your political views. There's a lot of that on this thread.

    Look, I like Proud Boys, they seem like decent folk to me but if you show me multiple videos of them clearly instigating violence on someone that was not in anyway a threat to them, then I will soon start calling them scumbags . I did so recently enough in AH with regards to Tommy Robinson when I seen him sucker punch someone. Had supported him up until then as I believe in free speech but that incident sickened me.

    Leftists on Boards though continue to support Antifa despite numerous examples of them behaving in a fascistic way, vandalising venues just because someone is set to speak, kicking people in the back of the head as they lay on the ground, attacking journalists, beating people with bats and basically instigating violence towards those that have a different political outlook to them.

    Again, I use the RIRA as an example. Majority of nationalists in Ireland support their aims but they do not support their actions which is why you see very little defending of them as an organisation. Merely sharing an aim does not justify support of those who instigate violence for political purposes.


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    #4216
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Brian? wrote: »
    In fairness man, this is what I responded to:

    “No outrage. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who support the stated aim of Antifa”

    The stated aim of Antifa is to oppose fascism. I was giving you a chance to clarify that you also opposed fascism, in other words you also support the stated of Antifa.

    If I take what you said literally, you’re either calling yourself a hypocrite or you are not anti fascist.
    You didn't even bother to look what I wrote about the stated aim of Antifa, did you? Laziness on your part does will not force me to keep repeating myself on the matter. Do the work, man!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4217
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,603 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    For him to have set up the video they would have had to enlist about 40 actors ...

    No no no... you just need your videographers, yourself, and one guy in black. You go to a real Antifa rally, you look for any situation to flare up which might be juicy and controversial, you have your hooded man go in with a knife/shiv so you can save the day. It's hero syndrome. It's why crooked cops plant drugs on innocent people, it's why crooked doctors poison/code their patients, just to save them. And yes, its what journalist, especially freelance journalists often are seen doing to drum up their own content, by making it up, or otherwise doctoring it to be newsworthy the way Project Veritas does or the way CNN selectively edited 9/11 call audio re: Trayvon Martin to make it more sensational and racist then it already was.

    Let's be clear though because again I feel like we're taking too much liberty with one another not stating things explicitly: if the video is bonafide (though I have reason to believe it is not) then that is troubling footage of an antifa guy that may have some kind of knife with intent to harm. Where I disagree is that this is evidence enough to label everything Antifa as terrorist. At the very least I would have liked to seen the individual arrested, for some reason that didn't happen here.


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    #4218
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    For him to have set up the video they would have had to enlist about 40 actors because the video starts off with dozens of Antifa pointing out the marine and then they all start to follow and harass him. How could he get them all to do that? They all have to be actors if it was a set up.

    With regards to the knife, it's pretty clear that the person puts it away when they are confronted and Brandon keeps checking to see where they are as they fall back. You can see that Brandon took one guy down later in the video that ran at him from behind and so he was clearly quite mindful that he could be attacked from behind at anytime and was taking measures to be prepared for that.

    Yet again it would seem that you are choosing to focus on something which has a very small probability of being true (that this was a set-up) just because it doesn't fit with your political views. There's a lot of that on this thread.

    Look, I like Proud Boys, they seem like decent folk to me but if you show me multiple videos of them clearly instigating violence on someone that was not in anyway a threat to them, then I will soon start calling them scumbags . I did so recently enough in AH with regards to Tommy Robinson when I seen him sucker punch someone. Had supported him up until then as I believe in free speech but that incident sickened me.

    Leftists on Boards though continue to support Antifa despite numerous examples of them behaving in a fascistic way, vandalising venues just because someone is set to speak, kicking people in the back of the head, attacking journalists, beating people with bats and basically being violent towards those that have a different political outlook to them.

    Again, I use the RIRA as an example. Majority of nationalists in Ireland support their aims but they do not support their actions which is why you see very little defending of them as an organisation. Sharing an aim does not justify support of those who instigate violence for political purposes.


    ...a political outlook that seeks to legislate for racist wants and desires.


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    #4219
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    notobtuse wrote: »
    You didn't even bother to look what I wrote about the stated aim of Antifa, did you? Laziness on your part does will not force me to keep repeating myself on the matter. Do the work, man!

    I did read it. But it doesn’t change the fact that the stated aim of Antifa is to oppose fascism. You believe their actual aim is something else.

    It’s a fairly simple proposition, but you can’t even agree on what they say they are doing. It’s irrelevant what that are actually doing, their stated aim is static and undeniable. I can’t believe you’re arguing it.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4220
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ...a political outlook that seeks to legislate for racist wants and desires.

    Antifa are violent to people who are not racist. Andy Ngo is not a racist, that marine I bet was not a racist.... you seem to think that just because you label someone a racist that you can do anything you like to them. Indeed much of the left think that same obnoxious way.

    Even if it was true though, and all those that Antifa have beaten the bejesus out of (or tried to) were in fact racists in favour of whatever legislation it is you are referring to..... so what, that's no justification for instigating violence against someone.


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    #4221
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Antifa are violent to people who are not racist. Andy Ngo is not a racist, that marine I bet was not a racist.... you seem to think that just because you label someone a racist that you can do anything you like to them. Indeed much of the left think that same obnoxious way.

    Even if it was true though, and all those that Antifa have beaten the bejesus out of (or tried to) were in fact racists in favour of whatever legislation it is you are referring to..... so what, that's no reason to instigate violence with anyone.




    So you think a far right racist manifesto is no better or worse than something a christian democratic party might espouse?


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    #4222
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Odhinn wrote: »
    So you think a far right racist manifesto is no better or worse than something a christian democratic party might espouse?

    Eh, no Cathy, I don't and that's some leap but what else have you ever had but your incessant attempts to label someone a racist.

    Now, maybe address the point that was made.....

    You emboldened the line in my post which condemned Antifa for instigating violence against those with a political outlook they disagreed with and said:
    Odhinn wrote: »
    ...a political outlook that seeks to legislate for racist wants and desires.

    Now again:
    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Even if it was true though, and all those that Antifa have beaten the bejesus out of (or tried to) were in fact racists in favour of whatever legislation it is you are referring to..... so what, that's no justification for instigating violence against someone.

    You appear to be justifying Antifa instigating violence against people just because they "seek to legislate for racist wants and desires".

    Is that true?


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    #4223
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Eh, no Cathy, I don't and that's some leap ..............




    It's no leap. Here you say

    were in fact racists in favour of whatever legislation it is you are referring to..... so what, that's no justification for instigating violence against someone.


    Theres a very great difference between ordinary politics and what dragged the world into war 1939 on. You don't seem to see that.


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    #4224
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    I addressed that!! :rolleyes:

    Here, I'll underline where I did so shall I?
    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    You appear to be justifying Antifa instigating violence against people just because they "seek to legislate for racist wants and desires".

    Now, for the third time: Is that true?


    Also, that is not what I said was a 'leap'.

    The 'leap' was suggesting I thought a far right racist manifesto was no better or worse than something a christian democratic party might espouse.

    Are you capable of following your own arguments? I'm beginning to wonder.


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    #4225
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Whole thread here showing Andy Ngo'a lies and selective editing. He should be looking at a jail sentence if there is any justice. That Brandan fella is a spoofer as well.

    https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1164961745099788288?s=19


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    #4226
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    20Cent wrote: »
    Whole thread here showing Andy Ngo'a lies and selective editing. He should be looking at a jail sentence if there is any justice. That Brandan fella is a spoofer as well.

    https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1164961745099788288?s=19
    Top quality journalism that


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    #4227
    youzack
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭youzack


    ANTIFA and Nazis are two sides of the same coin, both are idiots on the fringes of society, maybe 1% of the population , but the media know they generate views and ad revenue, and thats the reason that they are being pushed by the media as a big thing.
    If the media stoped pushing both ANTIFA and Nazis they would die on the vine , there is no support from the 99% of the population


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    #4228
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,603 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    20Cent wrote: »
    Whole thread here showing Andy Ngo'a lies and selective editing. He should be looking at a jail sentence if there is any justice. That Brandan fella is a spoofer as well.

    https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1164961745099788288?s=19

    Is that the “hero complex” issue again...


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    #4229
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    I'd never heard of this Ngo fella before this thread to be honest . That twitter thread has well and truly pulled the pants down of anyone claiming he's some sort of creditable, respected journalist


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    #4230
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Overheal wrote: »
    Is that the “hero complex” issue again...

    Yeah tough guy with his mob attacking a bar and beating a woman. A few slaps and he's crying on tv looking for money for a "brain hemmorage". Suppose a public health system is communist so having to beg for treatment is capitalism at its finest.

    Dozen more similar grifters out there doing the same thing. Right wingers should really be calling them out as they are stealing money from them. They don't because "owning the libs" is more important than fighting facism


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    #4231
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Brian? wrote: »
    I did read it. But it doesn’t change the fact that the stated aim of Antifa is to oppose fascism. You believe their actual aim is something else.

    It’s a fairly simple proposition, but you can’t even agree on what they say they are doing. It’s irrelevant what that are actually doing, their stated aim is static and undeniable. I can’t believe you’re arguing it.
    You do understand their stated aim of fighting fascism has grown to include conservatives and supporters of Trump, and believe they are justified in the fight to utilize violence to inflict bodily harm and destruction of personal property. That's what you support?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



This discussion has been closed.
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