Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

Would someone be invited to your workplace to put one of your colleagues photos up on a screen and proceed to humiliate and slander them?

Would you be ok with that?

No. Would I start a riot, damage private property and attempt to physically harm said person if they were invited? Definitely not.

What you are forgetting aswell is that these speakers have mostly been invited to Universities. It's not you average work place.

I'm still happy that you admitted that they engage in violence for political reasons though. At least you are finally being honest.

20Cent

SexBobomb wrote: »

Republicans/ conservatives aka the right, can you answer please this is tiresome, have they turned up to an event by someone who would identify as democrat ??

Move the goalpost there.
They don't show up at consevative or republican events.
Just fascist and racist ones.

Why would they go to a democratic event?

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

No. Would I start a riot, damage private property and attempt to physically harm said person if they were invited? Definitely not.

What you are forgetting aswell is that these speakers have mostly been invited to Universities. It's not you average work place.

I'm still happy that you admitted that they engage in violence for political reasons though. At least you are finally being honest.

You wouldn't like it but wouldn't do anyrhing about it.
Fine, but others will.

Dunno what your last line is about.

Eric Cartman

20cent, im interested to know. Lets say antifa just were not a thing in ireland, like at all, lets say not a single person protested Gemma or the 'far right' , in your own mind what do you think would happen in Ireland only, short medium and long term.

20Cent

Eric Cartman wrote: »

20cent, im interested to know. Lets say antifa just were not a thing in ireland, like at all, lets say not a single person protested Gemma or the 'far right' , in your own mind what do you think would happen in Ireland only, short medium and long term.

They aren't a thing in Ireland and neither is the far right so dunno what point you are making.

p1akuw47h5r3it

I said:

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Because it's so patently ridiculous.



Right so they do have a political aim. Wasn't hard was it. In fact it's even in the name: Anti-fascist.

It just so happens that there definition of fascism is outrageously broad, and they use violence and intimidation to fight what they see as fascism.

and you responded:

20Cent wrote: »

The violence is very little and mostly self defense.

The "they attack anyone who thinks differently" argument is shown not to be true as they only show up at events where there is a fascist element.

A clear admission that they use violence for political purposes

20Cent wrote: »

You wouldn't like it but wouldn't do anyrhing about it.
Fine, but others will.

Dunno what your last line is about.

No, I said what I wouldn't do. Not what I would, and not that I wouldn't do anything at all. Don't jump to such silly conclusions.

It's interesting to note, however, that by saying I wouldn't engage in violence and break the law you take it that I simply wouldn't do anything at all. Such is the mindset of anti-fa and their supporters seemingly.

There are other ways.

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I said:



and you responded:



A clear admission that they use violence for political purposes



No, I said what I wouldn't do. Not what I would, and not that I wouldn't do anything at all. Don't jump to such silly conclusions.

It's interesting to note, however, that by saying I wouldn't engage in violence and break the law you take it that I simply wouldn't do anything at all. Such is the mindset of anti-fa and their supporters seemingly.

There are other ways.

What would you have done then?

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

What would you have done then?

If it was a University accept that it's a University and it's a place where people can say what they want once it's not illegal, a place for very robust discussion and debates.. If a person gets slandered I'd tell them to sue. I'd tell the person being discussed to attend to give any rebuttals.

If it was an office job I had I may go on a work-to-rule, strike, listen to what the person says and be there to defend the colleague in question etc. I'd do a one or all those things depending on the situation.

You seem to think that violence is the only answer.

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

If it was a University accept that it's a University and it's a place where people can say what they want once it's not illegal, a place for very robust discussion and debates.. If a person gets slandered I'd tell them to sue. I'd tell the person being discussed to attend to give any rebuttals.

If it was an office job I had I may go on a work-to-rule, strike, listen to what the person says and be there to defend the colleague in question etc. I'd do a one or all those things depending on the situation.

You seem to think that violence is the only answer.

So you'd be ok with an actual nazi saying the jews must be stopped and black people are inferior in a university? The students should have to just put up with it?

The trans student should sue him? He's bankrupt so not much point really.


Milo is like Ali G, a character to make money. He has no place lecturing in a college. They should have some standards regarding speakers. He even defended paedophelia. Should he be allowed do that on stage in a university as well?

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

So you'd be ok with an actual nazi saying the jews must be stopped and black people are inferior in a university? The students should have to just put up with it?

No they don't have to just put up with it. They can ignore it, hold a peaceful protest preferably not trying to shut the talk down though...or better still attend the talk and point out why black people aren't inferior or why the Jews don't need to be stopped. It'd be a very easy argument to win.

Remember Nick Griffin? His political career essentially ended after he appeared on BBC question time. Many wanted him to be de-platformed, but he wasn't and he got torn to shreds. This is the best way to fight actual fascists.

20Cent wrote: »

The trans student should sue him? He's bankrupt so not much point really.


Milo is like Ali G, a character to make money. He has no place lecturing in a college. They should have some standards regarding speakers. He even defended paedophelia. Should he be allowed do that on stage in a university as well?

I don't care about Milo, I'm not here to defend the man. And yes if they are slandered they should sue.

ohnonotgmail

SexBobomb wrote: »

Im asking does antifa ever protest those who aren't conservative/ republican or on the right?.
You said NYT calls them far right group? Are you saying they called antifa far right, we may be talking past each other somewhat.
Where in that article does it call antifa far right ?

or maybe you cant read. try reading the article and last few posts again.

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

No they don't have to just put up with it. They can ignore it, hold a peaceful protest preferably not trying to shut the talk down though...or better still attend the talk and point out why black people aren't inferior or why the Jews don't need to be stopped. It'd be a very easy argument to win.

Remember Nick Griffin? His political career essentially ended after he appeared on BBC question time. Many wanted him to be de-platformed, but he wasn't and he got torn to shreds. This is the best way to fight actual fascists.



I don't care about Milo, I'm not here to defend the man. And yes if they are slandered they should sue.

Some things have already been decided.
Universities don't invite flat earth people to speak.
Someone like milo demeans the institution and everyone in it. The also wasn't a debate, people didn't get a chance to offer a rebuttle.

Shutting it down was a last resort.

Milo is pretty much gone now because of de platforming.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

Some things have already been decided.
Universities don't invite flat earth people to speak.
Someone like milo demeans the institution and everyone in it. The also wasn't a debate, people didn't get a chance to offer a rebuttle.

Shutting it down was a last resort.

Milo is pretty much gone now because of de platforming.

He isn't almost gone because of deplatforming. He toured America and Australia where the majority of his talks took place.

It's the students who tend to invite speakers not the Universities themselves. Whether or not it demeans the institution is neither here nor there. Regardless you could say that about anyone really. Why shouldn't flat-earthers be invited?

And the Milo talks I've seen have all included an Q&A part, so yes they do.

Shutting it down should never need to happen, this is the point.

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

He isn't almost gone because of deplatforming. He toured America and Australia where the majority of his talks took place.

It's the students who tend to invite speakers not the Universities themselves. Whether or not it demeans the institution is neither here nor there. Regardless you could say that about anyone really. Why shouldn't flat-earthers be invited?

And the Milo talks I've seen have all included an Q&A part, so yes they do.

Shutting it down should never need to happen, this is the point.

Yeah toured and took.
Past tense words.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

Yeah toured and took.
Past tense words.

So what, why are you banging on about Milo? I never brought him up, you did for reasons unknown.

You've intentionally gone off track as it's been demonstrated that engaging in violence is not the only way to show dissatisfaction when someone you don't like is invited to talk in your workplace, or slanders a colleague

And that engaging and debating said person is far more effective, Just look at Nick Griffin, or better yet Andrew O'Neills interview with Ben Shapiro.

And why didn't you answer the question I posed?

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

So what, why are you banging on about Milo? I never brought him up, you did for reasons unknown.

You've intentionally gone off track as it's been demonstrated that engaging in violence is not the only way to show dissatisfaction when someone you don't like is invited to talk in your workplace, or slanders a colleague

And that engaging and debating said person is far more effective, Just look at Nick Griffin, or better yet Andrew O'Neills interview with Ben Shapiro.

And why didn't you answer the question I posed?

Didn't say it was the only way.
The vast majority of what antifa does isn't violent at all.

There is no debate to be had with someone like milo. He doesn't do debates. Maybe if it was a debate where people had an equal voice it would be ok. He came up because someone claimed he's a conservative.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

Didn't say it was the only way.
The vast majority of what antifa does isn't violent at all.

There is no debate to be had with someone like milo. He doesn't do debates. Maybe if it was a debate where people had an equal voice it would be ok. He came up because someone claimed he's a conservative.

You most certainly did:

DanDan6592 wrote: »

No. Would I start a riot, damage private property and attempt to physically harm said person if they were invited? Definitely not.

What you are forgetting aswell is that these speakers have mostly been invited to Universities. It's not you average work place.

I'm still happy that you admitted that they engage in violence for political reasons though. At least you are finally being honest.

20Cent wrote: »

You wouldn't like it but wouldn't do anyrhing about it.
Fine, but others will.

Dunno what your last line is about.

As if to say that acting violent is the only way to do something.

20Cent wrote: »

There is no debate to be had with someone like milo. He doesn't do debates. Maybe if it was a debate where people had an equal voice it would be ok. He came up because someone claimed he's a conservative.

Ofcourse there is debate to be had with him. And if you don't believe so then ignore him. Having a riot is not the answer. Enough of Milo Yiannopolous anyhow, I'm not the poster who mentioned and have no desire to talk about him any longer.

And I'll ask again, why shouldn't a flat Earther be invited to a University campus?

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

You most certainly did:





As if to say that acting violent is the only way to do something.



Ofcourse there is debate to be had with him. And if you don't believe so then ignore him. Having a riot is not the answer. Enough of Milo Yiannopolous anyhow, I'm not the poster who mentioned and have no desire to talk about him any longer.

And I'll ask again, why shouldn't a flat Earther be invited to a University campus?

The earth isn't flat.
Pointless discussing that it is.
Universities should have standards about who they invite to speak because it reflects on them.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

The earth isn't flat.
Pointless discussing that it is.
Universities should have standards about who they invite to speak because it reflects on them.

No it isn't, but some people believe that it is. How are their minds ever going to be changed if they are never challenged and constantly de-platformed?

Who get's to decide those standards, as I said it's he students who tend to invite speakers?

Noam Chomsky is an anarchist, should he be de-platformed because having someone with such an extreme political ideology may reflect badly on the University?

Should he have been deplatformed in the 60's when he was put on Nixon's enemies list, or when he defended Holocaust denial as it would've potentially lessened the standards of Universities he spoke in?

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

No it isn't, but some people believe that it is. How are their minds ever going to be changed if they are never challenged and constantly de-platformed?

Who get's to decide those standards, as I said it's he students who tend to invite speakers?

Noam Chomsky is an anarchist, should he be de-platformed because having someone with such an extreme political ideology may reflect badly on the University?

Should he have been deplatformed in the 60's when he was put on Nixon's enemies list, or when he defended Holocaust denial as it would've potentially lessened the standards of Universities he spoke in?

They don't think its flat either they do it to take the piss and wind people up. Speaking at a university would just be a prank for them.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

They don't think its flat either they do it to take the piss and wind people up. Speaking at a university would just be a prank for them.

Some genuinely do. Watch the documentary called "Behind the Curve". It's actually quite good.

What about the rest of my post, why'd you ignore it?

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Some genuinely do.

What about the rest of my post, why'd you ignore it?

Thought it was a joke. Noam Chomsky compared to flat earth deniers.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

Thought it was a joke. Noam Chomsky compared to flat earth deniers.

It wasn't. The principle is the same. So answer it please. I'd like to know your answers.

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It wasn't. The principle is the same. So answer it please. I'd like to know your answers.

Chomsky publishes un peer reviewed journals, references claims made etc.
Flat earthers dont.

p1akuw47h5r3it

20Cent wrote: »

Chomsky publishes un peer reviewed journals, references claims made etc.
Flat earthers dont.

But he's an anarchist, former enemy of the President of the United States of America, and defends Holocaust denialism... you know, that thing Nazi's and White Nationalists openly engage in. That to me sounds like it'd bring down the standards of the University. He should be banned should he not, I mean defending something as abhorrent as Holocaust denial?

20Cent

DanDan6592 wrote: »

But he's an anarchist, former enemy of the President of the United States of America, and defends Holocaust denialism... you know, that thing Nazi's and White Nationalists openly engage in. That to me sounds like it'd bring down the standards of the University. He should be banned should he not, I mean defending something as abhorrent as Holocaust denial?

He is for freedom of speech even for holocaust deniers thats all. Trying to conflate him with flat earthers is silly.

Ironicname

20Cent wrote:

He is for freedom of speech even for holocaust deniers thats all. Trying to conflate him with flat earthers is silly.

But you only agree with freedom of speech if you agree with what's being said.

You've already said you support milo being violently protested for his speech

20Cent

Ironicname wrote: »

But you only agree with freedom of speech if you agree with what's being said.

You've already said you support milo being violently protested for his speech

No didn't say that at all.
Everyone has limits regarding what can be said and where.

Outlaw Pete

20Cent wrote: »

Universities should have standards about who they invite to speak because it reflects on them.

Even if you were right, and they shouldn't have been allowing these people to be speaking at their universities, that still doesn't justify violence. I remember one female reporter being struck with a pole during one of those protests. Antifa are nothing but violent fascist thugs.

Oh and if you're so willing to be outspoken about how these education faculties should have standards about who they let speak, how about being outspoken also about who they let teach too, as it would seem to me the eye really has been taken off the ball in that regard, and across much of western society too, as there sure are some leftist loons being given the responsibility of educating our young. Is it any wonder we are having such issues today with middle class brats.

https://www.pjmedia.com/trending/antifa-prof-who-bashed-trump-supporter-in-head-with-bike-lock-at-berkeley-given-slap-on-wrist/amp/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/26/jeff-klinzman-iowa-professor-resigns-after-declari/
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/05/21/judicial-watch-scores-a-victory-ovr-antifa-n2546646

Blueshoe

20Cent wrote: »

No didn't say that at all.
Everyone has limits regarding what can be said and where.

400 euro. 215 one way. You could be in Portland by this time tomorrow