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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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    #4742
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Even if you were right, and they shouldn't have been allowing these people to be speaking at their universities, that still doesn't justify violence. I remember one female reporter being struck with a pole during one of those protests. Antifa are nothing but violent fascist thugs.

    Oh and if you're so willing to be outspoken about how these education faculties should have standards about who they let speak, how about being outspoken also about who they let teach too, as it would seem to me the eye really has been taken off the ball in that regard, and across much of western society too, as there sure are some leftist loons being given the responsibility of educating our young. Is it any wonder we are having such issues today with middle class brats.

    https://www.pjmedia.com/trending/antifa-prof-who-bashed-trump-supporter-in-head-with-bike-lock-at-berkeley-given-slap-on-wrist/amp/
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/26/jeff-klinzman-iowa-professor-resigns-after-declari/
    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/05/21/judicial-watch-scores-a-victory-ovr-antifa-n2546646

    Bad examples all those people were fired or punished.
    Freedom of speech absolutists are the biggest spoofers ever.


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    #4743
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    20Cent wrote: »
    Bad examples all those people were fired or punished.

    Yvette Felarca is still a teacher and that wasn't my point. These people don't just become loons overnight. Chances are these people were spewing leftist bile to the students in their care. Indeed Yvette had brought some of her students to Antifa protests before she was recorded punching someone she thought was guilty of wrongthink.

    Seems to be though that instead of fearing Neo-Nazis, Anifa really should be more worried about fellow Antifa.


    https://twitter.com/pinkk9lover/status/1166874952915664897


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    #4744
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    20Cent wrote:
    No didn't say that at all. Everyone has limits regarding what can be said and where.

    But as you've said, if you disagree with certain speech (eg Milo) it is acceptable to use violence and intimidation to get it shut down?


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    #4745
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    20Cent wrote: »
    No didn't say that at all.
    Everyone has limits regarding what can be said and where.

    And your limit extends to saying negative things about trans rights activists and feminism, or saying the Earth is flat... But standing up for people to be able to say the Holocaust didn't happen is perfectly acceptable, riiight....?


    Regardless, universities are thee place for controversial discussions to take place. Its part of their purpose.


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    #4746
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Yvette Felarca is still a teacher and that wasn't my point. These people don't just become loons overnight. Chances are these people were spewing leftist bile to the students in their care. Indeed Yvette had brought some of her students to Antifa protests before she was recorded punching someone she thought was guilty of wrongthink.

    Seems to be though that instead of fearing Neo-Nazis, Anifa really should be more worried about fellow Antifa.


    https://twitter.com/pinkk9lover/status/1166874952915664897

    Said it before and I'll say it again.
    Most of what ye think is antifa is actually right wing grifters winding you up.
    The amount of people who believe no context videos a few seconds long is sad.


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    #4747
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    20Cent wrote: »
    Said it before and I'll say it again.
    Most of what ye think is antifa is actually right wing grifters winding you up.
    The amount of people who believe no context videos a few seconds long is sad.

    Sure you've posted more videos in this thread then anyone. Maybe take your own advice.


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    #4748
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    And your limit extends to saying negative things about trans rights activists and feminism, or saying the Earth is flat... But standing up for people to be able to say the Holocaust didn't happen is perfectly acceptable, riiight....?


    Regardless, universities are thee place for controversial discussions to take place. Its part of their purpose.

    It's a bit more than "negative things about trans" when he put a photo of her up on a screen and calls her a pervert, lies about her and no rigjt of reply given.
    Don't think holocaust deniers should get to speak in universities either. It's not a "controversial" discussion it is a stupid one just like flat earth.


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    #4749
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Sure you've posted more videos in this thread then anyone. Maybe take your own advice.

    It's not about the number of videos.
    Have a bit of skepticism anout the media you consume and especially share. Embarrassing falling for such obvious trolls.


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    #4750
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    20Cent wrote: »
    It's not about the number of videos.
    Have a bit of skepticism anout the media you consume and especially share. Embarrassing falling for such obvious trolls.

    I do. I'm just as skeptical of any the stuff you've dumped in here. And ridiculous calling me troll. I'm obviously not.


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    #4751
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    20Cent wrote: »
    It's a bit more than "negative things about trans" when he put a photo of her up on a screen and calls her a pervert, lies about her and no rigjt of reply given.
    Don't think holocaust deniers should get to speak in universities either. It's not a "controversial" discussion it is a stupid one just like flat earth.

    It's not stupid. If they believe the Holocaust didn't happen whose going to change their mind if they are always deplatforned and thus never properly challenged?


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    #4752
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    I do. I'm just as skeptical of any the stuff you've dumped in here. And ridiculous calling me troll. I'm obviously not.

    Not calling you a troll, the person who sent the tweet with the video. You don't know who's in it, where it was taken, what was going on etc. All you know is what the tweeter titled it and said is in it.


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    #4753
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    20Cent wrote: »
    Not calling you a troll, the person who sent the tweet with the video. You don't know who's in it, where it was taken, what was going on etc. All you know is what the tweeter titled it and said is in it.

    Oh I misread you sorry!

    Again could say same about any of the twitter videos you've posted.


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    #4754
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    It's not stupid. If they believe the Holocaust didn't happen whose going to change their mind if they are always deplatforned and thus never properly challenged?

    Hate to break it to you but holocaust deniers aren't doing it for debate or discussion. They don't care what others think.


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    #4755
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Oh I misread you sorry!

    Again could say same about any of the twitter videos you've posted.


    Which one?


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    #4756
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    20Cent wrote: »
    Hate to break it to you but holocaust deniers aren't doing it for debate or discussion. They don't care what others think.

    You could say the same about anyone with any beliefs. Why discuss anything ever at all?


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    #4757
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    You could say the same about anyone with any beliefs. Why discuss anything ever at all?

    No there is quantifiable, irrefutable proof the holocaust happened. It's not up for debate. Anyone who thinks it didn't is clearly an idiot or doing it for other reasons.


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    #4758
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    20Cent wrote: »
    No there is quantifiable, irrefutable proof the holocaust happened. It's not up for debate. Anyone who thinks it didn't is clearly an idiot or doing it for other reasons.

    And they'll remain an idiot until someone presents them with the facts and why it happened, and challenges whatever sources has led them to think it's not happened.

    You'd rather they stayed ignorant.


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    #4759
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    And they'll remain an idiot until someone presents them with the facts and why it happened, and challenges whatever sources has led them to think it's not happened.

    You'd rather they stayed ignorant.

    They have been many times but there are certain views that you simply won't change as they can profit from certain groups. Eg David Irving is worth a small fortune and by putting him in front of a group of people who aren't experts on WW2, there's a strong risk that somebody such as him convert more people into deniers. It's what happened with his court case.


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    #4760
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    And they'll remain an idiot until someone presents them with the facts and why it happened, and challenges whatever sources has led them to think it's not happened.

    You'd rather they stayed ignorant.

    Anyone can find out the facts themselves. Someone so far gone as to giving lectures on the topic is doing it for nefarious reasons and isn't going to change their mind because of a question at the q&a.


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    #4761
    Cyclepath
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Cyclepath


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    And they'll remain an idiot until someone presents them with the facts and why it happened, and challenges whatever sources has led them to think it's not happened.

    You'd rather they stayed ignorant.

    If only it was that easy. Unfortunately, conspiracy theorists are unlikely to be persuaded by most attempts to prove their theories wrong with evidence. They usually see any such attempt as further proof of the conspiracy.

    There's a body of research out there that covers just how difficult it is to convince such people that they're wrong. Most tend to double down on their beliefs in the face of evidence or rebuttal.


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    #4762
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    And they'll remain an idiot until someone presents them with the facts and why it happened, and challenges whatever sources has led them to think it's not happened.

    You'd rather they stayed ignorant.

    They dont care about the facts.


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    #4763
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Andy Ngo is tweeting the names and locations of the counter protesters who were arrested and the straight pride event. All these people are currently innocent and are now under threat. He's not a journalist he's a member of the gang.


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    #4764
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    batgoat wrote: »
    They have been many times but there are certain views that you simply won't change as they can profit from certain groups. Eg David Irving is worth a small fortune and by putting him in front of a group of people who aren't experts on WW2, there's a strong risk that somebody such as him convert more people into deniers. It's what happened with his court case.
    His court case completely discredited him as it was found he deliberately misreprested facts. The opposite happened to what you said.

    Who said he had to just be put in front of people with no knowledge of WW2. He'd be in a University. There'd be plenty of scholars on WW2.
    Do you think people who believe that climate change isn't real or heavily influenced by man should just be ignored aswell? The scientific consensus says otherwise. Who else do we ignore and deplatform?


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    #4765
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Cyclepath wrote: »
    If only it was that easy. Unfortunately, conspiracy theorists are unlikely to be persuaded by most attempts to prove their theories wrong with evidence. They usually see any such attempt as further proof of the conspiracy.

    There's a body of research out there that covers just how difficult it is to convince such people that they're wrong. Most tend to double down on their beliefs in the face of evidence or rebuttal.

    So what? We just don't bother to convince them otherwise. Let the conspiracy grow unchallenged is it?


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    #4766
    Cyclepath
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Cyclepath


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    So what? We just don't bother to convince them otherwise. Let the conspiracy grow unchallenged is it?

    Absolutely not! First we need to present the facts so that others will hopefully be less likely to join a particular cult or conspiracy. We also need to teach critical thinking to kids from an early age, again to prevent these beliefs taking root.

    In terms of existing conspiracy theorists, we need to approach them with compassion. Nobody ever convinced someone they were wrong by telling them they were stupid. The best approach is by gentle and gradual cognitive infiltration.

    You need to undermine the concentrated set of beliefs underlying the faulty epistemology that they use to convince themselves. You need to gradually plant seeds of doubt around each of the individual elements of their theory, but do so in a non-confrontational way, from many angles and multiple sources. Small steps, evolution not revolution...


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    #4767
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    His court case completely discredited him as it was found he deliberately misreprested facts. The opposite happened to what you said.

    Who said he had to just be put in front of people with no knowledge of WW2. He'd be in a University. There'd be plenty of scholars on WW2.
    Do you think people who believe that climate change isn't real or heavily influenced by man should just be ignored aswell? The scientific consensus says otherwise. Who else do we ignore and deplatform?

    So a proven liar. He either doesn't know how to interpret data or is lying. Either way not someone who should be lecturing in a university.

    Personally I don't think people who deny man made climate change should be invited either. Best thing is to ignore them.


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    #4768
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    His court case completely discredited him as it was found he deliberately misreprested facts. The opposite happened to what you said.

    Who said he had to just be put in front of people with no knowledge of WW2. He'd be in a University. There'd be plenty of scholars on WW2.
    Do you think people who believe that climate change isn't real or heavily influenced by man should just be ignored aswell? The scientific consensus says otherwise. Who else do we ignore and deplatform?

    i am more than happy to ignore liars, idiots, and idiot liars.


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    #4769
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    His court case completely discredited him as it was found he deliberately misreprested facts. The opposite happened to what you said.

    Who said he had to just be put in front of people with no knowledge of WW2. He'd be in a University. There'd be plenty of scholars on WW2.
    Do you think people who believe that climate change isn't real or heavily influenced by man should just be ignored aswell? The scientific consensus says otherwise. Who else do we ignore and deplatform?

    Problem is, you probably got more holocaust deniers out of it because of the reporting of his statements to the court. Sensational stuff is more interesting to the gullible.


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    #4770
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    186 euro to Portland one way. Prices down since yesterday.

    On your bike


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    #4771
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Cyclepath wrote: »
    Absolutely not! First we need to present the facts so that others will hopefully be less likely to join a particular cult or conspiracy. We also need to teach critical thinking to kids from an early age, again to prevent these beliefs taking root.

    In terms of existing conspiracy theorists, we need to approach them with compassion. Nobody ever convinced someone they were wrong by telling them they were stupid. The best approach is by gentle and gradual cognitive infiltration.

    You need to undermine the concentrated set of beliefs underlying the faulty epistemology that they use to convince themselves. You need to gradually plant seeds of doubt around each of the individual elements of their theory, but do so in a non-confrontational way, from many angles and multiple sources. Small steps, evolution not revolution...

    Oh I agree with all this. But the poster I was responding to is talking about de-platforming these people, or suggesting universities should never let them speak. That is hardly compassionate. It shuts down debate and means you cannot plant seeds of doubt.


This discussion has been closed.
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