Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Brian?

Ironicname wrote: »

Start a thread and perhaps I will respond to it. This thread is about antifa. I'm not a hypocrite. I despise white supremacists and I despise antifa.

....feeding the false equivalency between fascists and anti fascists. Both sides aren't worthy of equal hate.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

Start a thread and perhaps I will respond to it. This thread is about antifa. I'm not a hypocrite. I despise white supremacists and I despise antifa.

Very 'bad' people on both sides?

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote:

Where's your outrage at this guy? If it were antifa you'd be all over it. You are a hypocrite in regard to this issue.

Being against antifa doesn't mean you are pro white supremacist.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

Being against antifa doesn't mean you are pro white supremacist.

You keep referencing the violence. I assume to are in favour of anti-fascism generally?
If it's the violence then why absolutely no comment on the white/ALT-right violence when raised?

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote:

You keep referencing the violence. I assume to are in favour of anti-fascism generally?

Generally yes. When people start labeling Milo/proud Boys fascist then no.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

Generally yes. When people start labeling Milo/proud Boys fascist then no.

People have opinions. People don't represent a movement alone. They can be affiliated. Milo/Proud boys are stirrers of hate and division.

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote:

If it's the violence then why absolutely no comment on the white/ALT-right violence when raised?

There aren't swathes of people defending it.

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote:

People have opinions. People don't represent a movement alone. They can be affiliated. Milo/Proud boys are stirrers of hate and division.

No they aren't. I could easily say the same about antifa.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

No they aren't. I could easily say the same about antifa.

Well here you are defending Milo and the Proud Boys. The key difference is antifa are anti fascist. Milo and the proud boys don't like certain sections of society or them having a voice, what ever their reasoning. Antifa don't like such people.

randd1

Ironicname wrote: »

Being against antifa doesn't mean you are pro white supremacist.

It does to them, a kind of "if you're not listening to what I'm screaming in your face, then clearly you support the other side" kind of thing. They're hysterical(not the funny kind) and fanatical in their approach, which simply alienates a lot of right thinking people.

A group like Antifa is actually a good idea in these times, but would do far more good and would be far more successful if it understood that some people actually like their idea, just not how they go about it and didn't jump down their throats for thinking that, or if it just took a step back and counted to 10 before calling everybody who doesn't automatically bow down to their (ever narrowing) group think as a Nazi.

James Brown

randd1 wrote: »

It does to them, a kind of "if you're not listening to what I'm screaming in your face, then clearly you support the other side" kind of thing. They're hysterical(not the funny kind) and fanatical in their approach, which simply alienates a lot of right thinking people.

A group like Antifa is actually a good idea in these times, but would do far more good and would be far more successful if it understood that some people actually like their idea, just not how they go about it and didn't jump down their throats for thinking that, or if it just took a step back and counted to 10 before calling everybody who doesn't automatically bow down to their (ever narrowing) group think as a Nazi.

Your opinion based on anecdotal evidence is welcome.
If a few Republican congressmen like to engage in extra marital trysts with men in the toilets does that mean the entire Republican party is tarnished as engaging in adultery?

20Cent

randd1 wrote: »

It does to them, a kind of "if you're not listening to what I'm screaming in your face, then clearly you support the other side" kind of thing. They're hysterical(not the funny kind) and fanatical in their approach, which simply alienates a lot of right thinking people.

A group like Antifa is actually a good idea in these times, but would do far more good and would be far more successful if it understood that some people actually like their idea, just not how they go about it and didn't jump down their throats for thinking that, or if it just took a step back andi counted to 10 before calling everybody who doesn't automatically bow down to their (ever narrowing) group think as a Nazi.

Another person fooled by the grifters.

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote:

Well here you are defending Milo and the Proud Boys. The key difference is antifa are anti fascist. Milo and the proud boys don't like certain sections of society or them having a voice, what ever their reasoning. Antifa don't like such people.

Ugh. This circular argument again. I'm not defending anyone. I'm just saying that Milo or the Proud Boys aren't fascist. That's not defending them. It's correcting you.

And the gall to say that the reason they are fascists is because they don't want certain sections of society to have a voice? Ha.

Who exactly are they trying to silence?

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

Ugh. This circular argument again. I'm not defending anyone. I'm just saying that Milo or the Proud Boys aren't fascist. That's not defending them. It's correcting you.

And the gall to say that the reason they are fascists is because they don't want certain sections of society to have a voice? Ha.

Who exactly are they trying to silence?

Circular indeed.
We've been here. You concentrate on your outrage for some members of the antifa movement being violent. It's important those protesting for equality are kept in their place...

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote:

Circular indeed. We've been here. You concentrate on your outrage for some members of the antifa movement being violent. It's important those protesting for equality are kept in their place...

And you keep on diluting the word Fascist and Nazi until it loses all meaning. It's important that you keep trying to convince yourself that opinions you don't like are hateful yet the ones you agree with are virtuous...

20Cent

Milo singing the AMerican national anthem to a nazi saluting audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNLPIRS62g

Unite the right rally



Berkely





Nazi disrupting Detroit Pride event.


White nationalist rally


The right have a nazi problem.
If they spent a quarter of the energy spent demonising antifa they could sort it out. Instead antifa have to sort it out. If the far right get their way antifa will be banned and the groups above can march about unopposed.

Ironicname

Hate to break it to you chief. The vast vast majority of the right don't like antifa, and they also don't like Nazis.

It's almost as if you can hate both. Imagine.

Ironicname

20Cent wrote:

Milo singing the AMerican national anthem to a nazi saluting audience.

I once saw a hotel owner in Torquay doing a Nazi salute and goose stepping. Rampant so it is.

20Cent

Ironicname wrote: »

Hate to break it to you chief. The vast vast majority of the right don't like antifa, and they also don't like Nazis.

It's almost as if you can hate both. Imagine.

Not really,

Not hearing right wing groups condemning them or standing up to them.
They even support their right to intimidate others.
Even the president of the usa can't bring himself to condemn it.
The republican party want to outlaw those who counter them.

Good job antifa are there to do it.

James Brown

Ironicname wrote: »

I once saw a hotel owner in Torquay doing a Nazi salute and goose stepping. Rampant so it is.

Hey, to be fair, comments like that really make it seem like you are both ignoring and dismissing white supremacy/Nazism.

20Cent

Ironicname wrote: »

I once saw a hotel owner in Torquay doing a Nazi salute and goose stepping. Rampant so it is.

Jean-Paul Sartre in his book Anti-Semite and Jew (1944)

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play.

They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

Ironicname

Matt Barrett wrote:

Hey, to be fair, comments like that really make it seem like you are both ignoring and dismissing white supremacy/Nazism.

I'm not too concerned what it looks like.

Milo singing the national anthem while some people jokingly throw up a Nazi salute to make fun of the stereotype is hardly proof that the right have a problem. To include that clip with actual white supremacists is exactly what I mean by diluting it.

I'm not ignoring or dismissing white supremacy. I just am not trying desperately to find it everywhere.

Ironicname

20Cent wrote:

Not hearing right wing groups condemning them or standing up to them. They even support their right to intimidate others. Even the president of the usa can't bring himself to condemn it. The republican party want to outlaw those who counter them.

The president disavowed and condemned white supremacists.

Talking ****e like this is why nobody outside your bubble takes notice of anything you say.

You sound like.... A grifter.

20Cent

Ironicname wrote: »

I'm not too concerned what it looks like.

Milo singing the national anthem while some people jokingly throw up a Nazi salute to make fun of the stereotype is hardly proof that the right have a problem. To include that clip with actual white supremacists is exactly what I mean by diluting it.

I'm not ignoring or dismissing white supremacy. I just am not trying desperately to find it everywhere.

Constantly making excuses for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk

Rebranding White Nationalism: Inside Richard Spencer's Alt-Right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVeZ0_Lhazw

Ironicname

20Cent wrote:

Constantly making excuses for them.

For who?

Nazis? Oh right. Is that when I said I didn't like Nazis or white supremacists?

Or was it when I said it was silly of you to put up an obvious joke amongst clips of actual Nazis as you were diluting the meaning.

Can you make anti-Semitic jokes without being a Nazi?

20Cent

Good article worth a read.

Ironic Nazis Are Still Nazis

But the pretext of irony as a way of furthering bigotry isn’t just a tactic wannabe Nazis of the 21st century have developed. It’s actually indistinguishable from how the actual Nazis of the early 20th century behaved.

Partriot prayer, proud boys et al provide cover for these people.

Ironicname

20Cent wrote:

Ironic Nazis Are Still Nazis

Haha. Comedy gold. Anyone who ever made or laughed at a racist joke makes them a racist too I bet?

It must be amazing being as virtuous as you.

Outlaw Pete

20Cent wrote: »

Even the president of the usa can't bring himself to condemn it.

https://twitter.com/markdice/status/1158610660697108480

20Cent

Ironicname wrote: »

Haha. Comedy gold. Anyone who ever made or laughed at a racist joke makes them a racist too I bet?

It must be amazing being as virtuous as you.

That's not what the article says but nice try.

20Cent

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

https://twitter.com/markdice/status/1158610660697108480

Yeah he's designating them terrorists.
Sorry it's the counter protesters he wants called terrorists while dropping funding for investigating and suppressing reports into the far right. No wonder they love him.