Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

rocksolidfat · 13-09-2019 11:50pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You said Trump had never condemned those he cleary condems in the video, and multiple times too. You're essentially refusing to accept a fact and your gobbledygook in no way dilutes that.

As a matter of interest... if Al Qaeda organised a pro-Jihad march in the US and were allowed to go ahead with it, what would your opinion be?

If another Al Shabbab group were then allowed to run a pro-Jihad march in that same place, in that same summer, what would your thoughts be?

Now if a third rally was allowed, and was made up of and literally organised by multiple Muslim extremist groups, and resulted in a terror attack that cost life... what would your opinion be?

And if this all happened during Obama's presidency, and he then came out and talked about the "very fine people on both sides"... what would your opinion be? If Obama slipped in "and I don't mean the Muslim terrorists (who literally organised and orchestrated this", would you then be perfectly OK with that too?

Because that is what Charlottesville was. Just replace Islamic extremism for far white extremism (and the organisers are explicitly open white supremacists), and Obama for Trump. The first was literally organised by Richard Spencer of "Heil Trump!" fame, the second by the KKK themselves, and the third where the terror attack occurred by a whole mess of them, most notably avid Trump supporter Jason Kessler.

So in the reverse, were this Obama and Islamic extremist groups would you still be so quick to defend him as you are Trump with white supremacists and Nazis?

Veritas Libertas · 16-09-2019 3:02am

rocksolidfat wrote: »

As a matter of interest... if Al Qaeda organised a pro-Jihad march in the US and were allowed to go ahead with it, what would your opinion be?

Well since freedom of speech is a human right according to the U.N. and we're all about human rights around here I'm sure no-one has a problem with a protest or a march.

Because that is what Charlottesville was. Just replace Islamic extremism for far white extremism (and the organisers are explicitly open white supremacists), and Obama for Trump. The first was literally organised by Richard Spencer of "Heil Trump!" fame, the second by the KKK themselves, and the third where the terror attack occurred by a whole mess of them, most notably avid Trump supporter Jason Kessler.

The ACLU helped the 'unite the right' rally happen. I'm sure no-one would call them far-right or whatever. This is what they had to say about the events in Charlottesville.

Claire Gastañaga:

"The lack of any physical separation of the protesters and counterprotesters on the street was contributing to the potential of violence. [Police] did not respond. In fact, law enforcement was standing passively by, waiting for violence to take place, so that they would have grounds to declare an emergency, declare an 'unlawful assembly' and clear the area."

20Cent · 16-09-2019 9:04am

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

Well since freedom of speech is a human right according to the U.N. and we're all about human rights around here I'm sure no-one has a problem with a protest or a march.

The ACLU helped the 'unite the right' rally happen. I'm sure no-one would call them far-right or whatever. This is what they had to say about the events in Charlottesville.

Claire Gastañaga:
"The situation that occurred was preventable" and the ACLU's lawsuit, which resulted in a federal court granting an injunction allowing the rally to go forward at Lee Park, "did not cause it."
"The lack of any physical separation of the protesters and counterprotesters on the street was contributing to the potential of violence. [Police] did not respond. In fact, law enforcement was standing passively by, waiting for violence to take place, so that they would have grounds to declare an emergency, declare an 'unlawful assembly' and clear the area."

The ACLU are free speech absolutists. They will advocate for anyone not just "their side". If they helped an event go ahead it's not because of political reasons or they didn't think it was far right.

batgoat · 16-09-2019 9:54am

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

Well since freedom of speech is a human right according to the U.N. and we're all about human rights around here I'm sure no-one has a problem with a protest or a march.

The ACLU helped the 'unite the right' rally happen. I'm sure no-one would call them far-right or whatever. This is what they had to say about the events in Charlottesville.

Claire Gastañaga:
"The situation that occurred was preventable" and the ACLU's lawsuit, which resulted in a federal court granting an injunction allowing the rally to go forward at Lee Park, "did not cause it."
"The lack of any physical separation of the protesters and counterprotesters on the street was contributing to the potential of violence. [Police] did not respond. In fact, law enforcement was standing passively by, waiting for violence to take place, so that they would have grounds to declare an emergency, declare an 'unlawful assembly' and clear the area."

Except the UN specifies it is not absolute. Charlottesville wouldn't be protected under the provision. So no human rights breach to be opposed to Neo Nazis...

The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary: (a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others; (b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.

20Cent · 16-09-2019 3:32pm

Latest "patriot" prayer event.
Numbers down they can't get a crowd together.

https://twitter.com/luistheleftist/status/1173352829018238976?s=19

Good work antifa.

statesaver · 16-09-2019 4:01pm

20Cent wrote: »

Latest "patriot" prayer event.
Numbers down they can't get a crowd together.

https://twitter.com/luistheleftist/status/1173352829018238976?s=19

Good work antifa.

Maybe the other " Patriots " are .. you know ... at work.

Overheal · 16-09-2019 4:04pm

statesaver wrote: »

Maybe the other " Patriots " are .. you know ... at work.

Being a part of this system ?! :mad:

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:05pm

statesaver wrote: »

Maybe the other " Patriots " are .. you know ... at work.

on a sunday?

Outlaw Pete · 16-09-2019 4:21pm

20Cent wrote: »

Latest "patriot" prayer event.
Numbers down they can't get a crowd together.

Still didn't stop Antifa scum showing up and being violent ... Joey's prayers count as fascism now?

https://twitter.com/RT_Deutsch/status/1173535770587664384

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:23pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Still didn't stop Antifa scum showing up and being violent ... Joey's prayers count as fascism now?

https://twitter.com/RT_Deutsch/status/1173535770587664384

Hmm, the only actual act of violence i seen was a punch been thrown by that "patriot" prayer lot.

16-09-2019 4:31pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Hmm, the only actual act of violence i seen was a punch been thrown by that "patriot" prayer lot.

In response to liquid being thrown over him.

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In response to liquid being thrown over him.

the patriot lad moved towards him with the intention of violence. the other guy was defending himself as best he could.

16-09-2019 4:40pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the patriot lad moved towards him with the intention of violence. the other guy was defending himself as best he could.

Wow. Talk about seeing only what you want to see!!! That would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow. Talk about seeing only what you want to see!!! That would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad

so amuse me and tell me what you see. why did the patriot lad approach the protestors?

16-09-2019 4:44pm

because he was throwing liquid on people. its clear as day.

Veritas Libertas · 16-09-2019 4:46pm

batgoat wrote: »

Except the UN specifies it is not absolute. Charlottesville wouldn't be protected under the provision. So no human rights breach to be opposed to Neo Nazis...

Funny how the ones that claim 'free-speech is not absolute' are usually the ones attacking it.

Even the most ardent supporters of free-speech believe its principle rooted in not harming others first. It does however fully protect your right to hold a belief that may be offensive to others.

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

because he was throwing liquid on people. its clear as day.

but why did he approach the protestor in the first place? he was clearly looking to start a fight.

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:47pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

Funny how the ones that claim 'free-speech is not absolute' are usually the ones attacking it.

Even the most ardent supporters of free-speech believe its principle rooted in not harming others first. It does however fully protect your right to hold a belief that may be offensive to others.

fascist beliefs are not just offensive to others, they are detrimental to others.

16-09-2019 4:49pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

but why did he approach the protestor in the first place? he was clearly looking to start a fight.

Ok, I will ask you a simple question:

Did the person who got punched act as though he was going to throw liquid on people (and then actually throw liquid on people) before he was punched?

Veritas Libertas · 16-09-2019 4:49pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

fascist beliefs are not just offensive to others, they are detrimental to others.

Care to break that down for me? I believe the opposite, being exposed to fascism and its horrors its pretty much the best way to stay clear of it.

Outlaw Pete · 16-09-2019 4:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In response to liquid being thrown over him.

And as with New York and Boston, that liquid tends to be their own piss.

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:52pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

Care to break that down for me? I believe the opposite, being exposed to fascism and its horrors its pretty much the best way to stay clear of it.

do you really need somebody to explain that to you?

Outlaw Pete · 16-09-2019 4:53pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so amuse me and tell me what you see. why did the patriot lad approach the protestors?

He wasn't PP, did you not hear what Joey said to him and what the guy then said in return?

Either way, throwing urine on someone is an aggressive act and illegal.

Fair play to those there that kept their cool.

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, I will ask you a simple question:

Did the person who got punched act as though he was going to throw liquid on people (and then actually throw liquid on people) before he was punched?

well he certainly did throw liquid on the guy who punched him. which in no way excuses the guy who punched him. you probably consider that some sort of proportionate response.

16-09-2019 4:54pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well he certainly did throw liquid on the guy who punched him. which in no way excuses the guy who punched him. you probably consider that some sort of proportionate response.

Punching someone who throws piss on you? Yes. I think it is proportionate.

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 4:55pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

He wasn't PP, did you not hear what Joey said to him and what the guy then said in return?

Either way, throwing urine on someone is an aggressive act and illegal.

Fair play to those there that kept their cool.

i didn't have sound turned on so why dont you tell me

Outlaw Pete · 16-09-2019 5:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Punching someone who throws piss on you? Yes. I think it is proportionate.

Indeed, and if this case is anything to go by, the punch would most likely be considered self defense:

https://gothamist.com/news/brooklyn-man-charged-for-throwing-urine-on-female-transit-workers

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 5:07pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

He wasn't PP, did you not hear what Joey said to him and what the guy then said in return?

Either way, throwing urine on someone is an aggressive act and illegal.

Fair play to those there that kept their cool.

So i watched it again with the sound on. Where does urine come into it? i heard no mention of that.

Ironicname · 16-09-2019 5:11pm

ohnonotgmail wrote:

well he certainly did throw liquid on the guy who punched him. which in no way excuses the guy who punched him. you probably consider that some sort of proportionate response.

Hahahahaha. What do you consider proportionate response to piss being thrown on you?

You really are digging a hole here.

Would it have been so hard to say "yeah that antifa bloke was a complete scumbag and at fault in this case"?

But instead you attempted to say he was acting in self defense!!!

Truly bizarre and undermines any argument you have or will make if you are so blinded by your need for antifa to be perpetually virtuous victims to an extent where you think that throwing piss is an acceptable form of protest.

ohnonotgmail · 16-09-2019 5:12pm

Ironicname wrote: »

Hahahahaha. What do you consider proportionate response to piss being thrown on you?

You really are digging a hole here.

Would it have been so hard to say "yeah that antifa bloke was a complete scumbag and at fault in this case"?

But instead you attempted to say he was acting in self defense!!!

Truly bizarre and undermines any argument you have or will make if you are so blinded by your need for antifa to be perpetually virtuous victims to an extent where you think that throwing piss is an acceptable form of protest.

again, where does the piss thing come from? Now it may just be my old ears but i didnt hear any mention of piss in the video.

Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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