Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

WrenBoy

20Cent wrote: »

Why join in on a "joke" that symbolises white supremacists though?
Maybe avoid that "joke".

The Navy are investigating they must be losers on the fringes of society, also the mainstream media. Everyone knows how it would be seen so why do it. Spreading fascism to "own the libs" self defeating.

sigh... the joke isn't about white supremacy or the advancement of it, the joke is that leftists will take any opportunity to equate innocuous things white people do with White supremacy and create boogie men out of anything at all ...
Spencer and white supremacists are losers on the fringes of society, these on the other hand are just guys (usually from working class backgrounds) having fun at a mediocre football game with an internet meme that loosely represents a rejection of what they see as societies belief that all white people are evil, all men are rapists and Trump is the Reincarnation of Hitler and Satan.
Also of course they say they are investigating and they probably will talk to the lads to see what the hub-bub is about but I believe thats mostly just an press release put out to please the usual voices who would sensationalise it and declare the entire Navy to be racist or something if the Navy just ignored it.

James Brown

WrenBoy wrote: »

sigh... the joke isn't about white supremacy or the advancement of it, the joke is that leftists will take any opportunity to equate innocuous things white people do with White supremacy and create boogie men out of anything at all ...
Spencer and white supremacists are losers on the fringes of society, these on the other hand are just guys (usually from working class backgrounds) having fun at a mediocre football game with an internet meme that loosely represents a rejection of what they see as societies belief that all white people are evil, all men are rapists and Trump is the Reincarnation of Hitler and Satan.
Also of course they say they are investigating and they probably will talk to the lads to see what the hub-bub is about but I believe thats mostly just an press release put out to please the usual voices who would sensationalise it and declare the entire Navy to be racist or something if the Navy just ignored it.

How ever you try spin it and dismiss it, it's used as a white supremacy sign. Pointing that out and looking at people who use it in that manner, trolling or not, should be done. It should be pointed out. Why? Because we shouldn't allow the normalisation of such hateful things. Nothing sensational to it, just decency. We've a poster on here doesn't even believe it's a thing. This is the trouble with letting such things slide.

WrenBoy

20Cent wrote: »

Maybe the 4chan brigade should find another "joke"..

Why would they? they would consider this a massive success, this is exactly what they wanted, people upset by the ok symbol from a cartoon frog. Wonder what the next one will be?

20Cent wrote: »

No time to distinguish if someone is an actual nazi or just being satirical either way not a good thing.

Your votes worth the same as mine, terrifying.

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

How ever you try spin it and dismiss it, it's used as a white supremacy sign. Pointing that out and looking at people who use it in that manner, trolling or not, should be done. It should be pointed out. Why? Because we shouldn't allow the normalisation of such hateful things. Nothing sensational to it, just decency. We've a poster on here doesn't even believe it's a thing. This is the trouble with letting such things slide.

Hang on a moment. Who decides it's a white power sign? You seem to think that because you, and people like you, decided that because a few white supremacists have made a hand gesture, that it shouldn't be tolerated and anyone who does so is a white supremacist?

This is the reason it is becoming popular in the mainstream. Because people don't like to be dictated to based on your moral compass and are taking the piss out of people like you.

Letting things slide? Should not be done?

The Antifa brigade are not going to dictate and decide what gestures they deem to be acceptable or tolerated by people.

MMyers

In some circles the A OK hand sign is used by occultists as a 666 reference.

20Cent

WrenBoy wrote: »

sigh... the joke isn't about white supremacy or the advancement of it, the joke is that leftists will take any opportunity to equate innocuous things white people do with White supremacy and create boogie men out of anything at all ...
Spencer and white supremacists are losers on the fringes of society, these on the other hand are just guys (usually from working class backgrounds) having fun at a mediocre football game with an internet meme that loosely represents a rejection of what they see as societies belief that all white people are evil, all men are rapists and Trump is the Reincarnation of Hitler and Satan.
Also of course they say they are investigating and they probably will talk to the lads to see what the hub-bub is about but I believe thats mostly just an press release put out to please the usual voices who would sensationalise it and declare the entire Navy to be racist or something if the Navy just ignored it.

Stephen Miller a speech writer and advisor on national policy for the most powerful nation on earth. He is responsible for policies such as family separation and the travel ban on Muslim countries. Emails he sent to Brietbart reporters were leaked where he shared articles from white supremacist websites and advocated things like different races and IQ.

Disgraced criminal Roger Stone a powerful lobbyist and worked on Donal Trumps campaign with the "proud boys". Not to mention Steve Bannon's role in trumps election and influence on police. Last I heard he was travelling around europe offering advice to the far right.



Richard Spencer was being interviewed by mainstrem media ad well on his way to becoming a public figure until being exposed at Charlottsville. He says himself he wanted to normalise his vies by marching, rallies and talks in universities. Antifa put a stop to that fortunately.

The PM of the UK refers to muslim women as letterboxes and homosexuals as bum boys.

I wish this was a fringe thing but it's not.
It's beholden on all of us to fight against it.

Dismissing it or downplaying it is very dangerous and only helps one group.
The white supremacists.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

Hang on a moment. Who decides it's a white power sign? You seem to think that because you, and people like you, decided that because a few white supremacists have made a hand gesture, that it shouldn't be tolerated and anyone who does so is a white supremacist?

This is the reason it is becoming popular in the mainstream. Because people don't like to be dictated to based on your moral compass and are taking the piss out of people like you.

Letting things slide? Should not be done?

The Antifa brigade are not going to dictate and decide what gestures they deem to be acceptable or tolerated by people.

White supremacists adopted it as their symbol, don't blame "the left" for it.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Stephen Miller a speech writer and advisor on national policy for the most powerful nation on earth. He is responsible for policies such as family separation and the travel ban on Muslim countries. Emails he sent to Brietbart reporters were leaked where he shared articles from white supremacist websites and advocated things like different races and IQ.

Disgraced criminal Roger Stone a powerful lobbyist and worked on Donal Trumps campaign with the "proud boys". Not to mention Steve Bannon's role in trumps election and influence on police. Last I heard he was travelling around europe offering advice to the far right.



Richard Spencer was being interviewed by mainstrem media ad well on his way to becoming a public figure until being exposed at Charlottsville. He says himself he wanted to normalise his vies by marching, rallies and talks in universities. Antifa put a stop to that fortunately.

The PM of the UK refers to muslim women as letterboxes and homosexuals as bum boys.

I wish this was a fringe thing but it's not.
It's beholden on all of us to fight against it.

Dismissing it or downplaying it is very dangerous and only helps one group.
The white supremacists.

Fighting against a hand gesture, specifically adopted to piss you and Antifa off?

No thanks mate, I will pick my battles a little more wisely.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

White supremacists adopted it as their symbol, don't blame "the left" for it.

If they did, I am not prepared to give it to them. I'm blaming the left for trying to let them have it.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

If they did, I am not prepared to give it to them. I'm blaming the left for trying to let them have it.

Blaming the left for right wing nuts using a hand signal.
Does it get any sadder than this?

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Blaming the left for right wing nuts using a hand signal.
Does it get any sadder than this?

Yes. It does get sadder.

You, completely ignoring the fact that I didn't say that and lying to imply that I had.

You, giving a joke enough power to think it's a threat.

You.

20Cent

Hilarious how the far right will make excuses for anything, claim the worst is "just joking" even mass murder, but when called up on it they lose their minds.

WrenBoy

20Cent wrote: »

Hilarious how the far right will make excuses for anything, claim the worst is "just joking" even mass murder, but when called up on it they lose their minds.

sure, lost their minds about a cartoon people thinking the world is ending because of a cartoon. :pac:

Are there any far right people here, I really doubt it

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Hilarious how the far right will make excuses for anything, claim the worst is "just joking" even mass murder, but when called up on it they lose their minds.

Am I considered far right to you?

I oppose white supremacy. I oppose fascism. I oppose racism. I oppose open borders. I oppose radicalism (of any religion). I oppose modern feminism. I oppose self identification of gender. I oppose "positive" discrimination. I oppose discrimination. (this is not an exhaustive list, just a few examples)

I also oppose being told what is acceptable by people who openly support Antifa.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

Am I considered far right to you?

I oppose white supremacy. I oppose fascism. I oppose racism. I oppose open borders. I oppose radicalism (of any religion). I oppose modern feminism. I oppose self identification of gender. I oppose "positive" discrimination. I oppose discrimination. (this is not an exhaustive list, just a few examples)

I also oppose being told what is acceptable by people who openly support Antifa.

Threads not about you?
Why do you think it is?

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Threads not about you?
Why do you think it is?

I'm not sure whether you are purposely trying to misrepresent what I am saying or whether your reading comprehension skills are poor.

I never claimed the thread was about me. It is a thread about Antifa (which arcs between Antifa and the left vs right situation)

I asked you a question to determine what type of person (or their opinion) you consider "far-right".

I listed a couple of opinions that I feel strongly about and asked if, based on this information, would you classify me as "far-right".

How you decided to insinuate that I thought the thread was about me from that exchange is frankly bizarre.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Hang on a moment. Who decides it's a white power sign? You seem to think that because you, and people like you, decided that because a few white supremacists have made a hand gesture, that it shouldn't be tolerated and anyone who does so is a white supremacist?

This is the reason it is becoming popular in the mainstream. Because people don't like to be dictated to based on your moral compass and are taking the piss out of people like you.

Letting things slide? Should not be done?

The Antifa brigade are not going to dictate and decide what gestures they deem to be acceptable or tolerated by people.

If by me and people like me you mean hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people around the world, then yes, we decided that because white supremacists use it as a symbol its a symbol white supremacists use.

Who's the antifa brigade? Enough with your ALT-Right conspiracy theories. You are confusing opinions you don't like with organised people under the umbrella of 'the left' out to get you.

As a person who casually uses homophobic slurs, do you really care?

Deleted User wrote: »

God. It's bum boys like this that are ruining it for everyone else that is straight, white and perpetually offended.....

Deleted User wrote: »

Am I considered far right to you?

I oppose white supremacy. I oppose fascism. I oppose racism. I oppose open borders. I oppose radicalism (of any religion). I oppose modern feminism. I oppose self identification of gender. I oppose "positive" discrimination. I oppose discrimination. (this is not an exhaustive list, just a few examples)

I also oppose being told what is acceptable by people who openly support Antifa.

I'd consider your views right wing and ignorant, but unless you treat others poorly or hate based on difference probably not. You are an apologist and enabler certainly.

Bobblehats

20Cent wrote: »

I’ve got Leonardo Di Caprio and Razor Ramon tagged on the right. Mike Myers seems to be leaning furthest / far right

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Who's the antifa brigade? Enough with your ALT-Right conspiracy theories. You are confusing opinions you don't like with organised people under the umbrella of 'the left' out to get you.

I'd consider your views right wing and ignorant, but unless you treat others poorly or hate based on difference probably not.

The Antifa brigade are the typical type of Antifa supporter who think that anything the disagree with is hate speech and should be shut down.

And as for casually using homophobic slurs? Yes I do. Because they are only words, and when used in certain situations and contexts, they are ok. For example, I often use what you would class as homophobic slurs when hanging around with friend who happens to be gay.

Intent is key.

Should I not be allowed because its a naughty no-no word that some people don't like?

I have no doubt that you think my views are ignorant but I would expect no less. As for being an apologist and an enabler? Christ on a bike :pac::pac:

James Brown

Bobblehats wrote: »

I’ve got Leonardo Di Caprio and Razor Ramon tagged on the right. Mike Myers seems to be leaning furthest / far right

Wait until the fella on the far right (no pun intended) realises he's getting a kicking for ordering water.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure whether you are purposely trying to misrepresent what I am saying or whether your reading comprehension skills are poor.

I never claimed the thread was about me. It is a thread about Antifa (which arcs between Antifa and the left vs right situation)

I asked you a question to determine what type of person (or their opinion) you consider "far-right".

I listed a couple of opinions that I feel strongly about and asked if, based on this information, would you classify me as "far-right".

How you decided to insinuate that I thought the thread was about me from that exchange is frankly bizarre.

I don't know you so wouldn't say.


Far right to me would be some or all of the following, supporters of authoritarianism, Right-wing populism, nationalism and ethnocentrism. Very anti-immigration and anti-integration, homophobic and transphobic, they considers others inferior and undesirable.

British Army document


Warning signs of fascism

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

The Antifa brigade are the typical type of Antifa supporter who think that anything the disagree with is hate speech and should be shut down.

And as for casually using homophobic slurs? Yes I do. Because they are only words, and when used in certain situations and contexts, they are ok. For example, I often use what you would class as homophobic slurs when hanging around with friend who happens to be gay.

Intent is key.

Should I not be allowed because its a naughty no-no word that some people don't like?

I have no doubt that you think my views are ignorant but I would expect no less. As for being an apologist and an enabler? Christ on a bike :pac::pac:

That describes you perfectly but pro right

So no worries, you casually use homophobic slurs. Gent.
Oh you've a gay friend..so it's okay :rolleyes:

You don't seem to comprehend what 'intent' or 'context' mean. Use it as much as you like, not at a Proud Boy or other white supremacist rally, mind it's use would be moot.

You are furiously defending the use of a white supremacy symbol. You will not accept the fact or are simply trying to dismiss the fact that it is used as such. You also are 100% posting on being anti anti fascism, but not a fascist and makes homophobic slurs, but has a gay friend. Sure you're not....

RandomName2

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If by me and people like me you mean hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people around the world, then yes, we decided that because white supremacists use it as a symbol its a symbol white supremacists use.

Along with the symbolic thrusting gesture known as 'the floss'. It was initially introduced by this white supremacist



And subsequently became part of mainstream alt right/neo nazi identity. Far right terrorists like the Christchurch shooter had it as part of their manifestos

'floss on the corpses of my enemies'URL="https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/3/15/18267163/new-zealand-shooting-christchurch-white-nationalism-racism-language"]1[/URL


It has since become emblematic of racist ideology. It is well known in a 'video game' that is popular on the dark web, that is loosely based off of the film and novel Battle Royale which depicts extreme violence and involves a fight to the death among its participants. This platform, commonly known among the community as 'fortnight' has been popularized by well known neo-nazi figures such as Richard Tyler Blevins and Felix Arvid Ulf Kjellberg, the latter of whom has amassed a strong following online among white males, which is collectively known as 'the bro army'.

While this is greatly concerning in itself, reports of increasing appearances of this gesticulation in the context of racist attacks is a particular cause for alarm. The sooner we can get a general understanding of the connection between this gesture, and racist abuse, the sooner we can move towards the elimination of a particular platform for hatred.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'd consider your views right wing and ignorant, but unless you treat others poorly or hate based on difference probably not. You are an apologist and enabler certainly.

Says the supporter of armed republicanism

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You keep insisting on a narrative and perceived agenda. I've been quite clear.
I don't believe they would view much of the troubles as 'sins'. That's your spin. 'Sins' infers regretful wrong doing. Putting your idea and faux morals on the actions of others.
And you go on to twist. Not saying they are a bastion of transparency.
You can keep slipping in propaganda and I'll get bored denying things I never eluded to. But that's the crux and point of a SF thread; keeping throwing in ifs and buts to get to a good slag. Great debate that man.

James Brown

RandomName2 wrote: »

Along with the symbolic thrusting gesture known as 'the floss'. It was initially introduced by this white supremacist



And subsequently became part of mainstream alt right/neo nazi identity. Far right terrorists like the Christchurch shooter had it as part of their manifestos

'floss on the corpses of my enemies'URL="https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/3/15/18267163/new-zealand-shooting-christchurch-white-nationalism-racism-language"]1[/URL


It has since become emblematic of racist ideology. It is well known in a 'video game' that is popular on the dark web, that is loosely based off of the film and novel Battle Royale which depicts extreme violence and involves a fight to the death among its participants. This platform, commonly known among the community as 'fortnight' has been popularized by well known neo-nazi figures such as Richard Tyler Blevins and Felix Arvid Ulf Kjellberg, the latter of whom has amassed a strong following online among white males, which is collectively known as 'the bro army'.

While this is greatly concerning in itself, reports of increasing appearances of this gesticulation in the context of racist attacks is a particular cause for alarm. The sooner we can get a general understanding of the connection between this gesture, and racist abuse, the sooner we can move towards the elimination of a particular platform for hatred.

Boss, it's used in that context, by those people. All I know about the floss is it first appeared as a characters victory dance in a video game, (Fortnight). I don't recall noticing it in Battle Royale 1 or 2.

RandomName2 wrote: »

Says the supporter of armed republicanism

oooh quote me on that please. I was not around in 1916, but I am a fan. You might be confusing my acknowledging their fight as an armed struggle for them?

You are denying the symbol is used by white supremacists. Or have you switched gears now trying to belittle the whole thing?

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So no worries, you casually use homophobic slurs. Gent.
Oh you've a gay friend..so it's okay :rolleyes:

You don't seem to comprehend what 'intent' or 'context' mean. Use it as much as you like, not at a Proud Boy or other white supremacist rally, mind it's use would be moot.

You are furiously defending the use of a white supremacy symbol. You will not accept the fact or are simply trying to dismiss the fact that it is used as such. You also are 100% posting on being anti anti fascism, but not a fascist and makes homophobic slurs, but has a gay friend. Sure you're not....

Yes, I think it is absolutely ok to use "homophobic slurs" in certain circumstances. Not everyone is offended by everything.

Intent means intention or purpose. Any word can be threatening, insulting or offensive depending on the intent and delivery.

Context means the situation within which something exists or happens, and that can help explain it. I use words around certain people that I wouldn't use around others based on how appropriate they are to peoples sensitivities and age.

What part did I get wrong?

But sure, because I don't support Antifa, in select instances I use coarse language that you think is a no-no, reject the fact that the OK symbol is now purely a white power symbol and have the audacity to mention that I have a gay friend, that makes me a rampant bigot!

That's a very dishonest way of debating and your attempt to allude that I may be homophobic is laughable.

RandomName2

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Boss, it's used in that context, by those people. All I know about the floss is it first appeared as a characters victory dance in a video game, (Fortnight?).

Then you aren't keeping up with alt-right ideologies. :rolleyes:

I mean if you're going to fall for the circle game trolling, why not the floss trolling too?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

oooh quote me on that please. You might be confusing my acknowledging their fight as an armed struggle for them?

You're a big supporter of Sinn Fein and don't really see their brutal terrorist background as really much of a big deal. You are being sucked in by 4chan trolling about the circle game (a kids game), and don't lift your head to see the actual emblems relating to terrorism in your back yard. It's not a problem because it's your gang, I get it.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, I think it is absolutely ok to use "homophobic slurs" in certain circumstances. Not everyone is offended by everything.

Intent means intention or purpose. Any word can be threatening, insulting or offensive depending on the intent and delivery.

Context means the situation within which something exists or happens, and that can help explain it. I use words around certain people that I wouldn't use around others based on how appropriate they are to peoples sensitivities and age.

What part did I get wrong?

But sure, because I don't support Antifa, in select instances I use coarse language that you think is a no-no, reject the fact that the OK symbol is now purely a white power symbol and have the audacity to mention that I have a gay friend, that makes me a rampant bigot!

That's a very dishonest way of debating and your attempt to allude that I may be homophobic is laughable.

Comrade, I asked as someone who casually uses homophobic slurs do you really care? You came back with having a gay friend and my inferring you are homophobic. If I thought you were I'd say it no problem. I think you're just stirring.

No, using a known white supremacist symbol that also passes as an innocent symbol, depending on the intent or context, would require...intent or context, d'you get it?

You don't just not support antifa, you spend many many hours attacking anything the criticises the far and ALT-Right, you know this right?

Mentioning you have a gay friend to excuse your use of homophobic slurs, just makes you sad.

James Brown

RandomName2 wrote: »

Then you aren't keeping up with alt-right ideologies. :rolleyes:

I mean if you're going to fall for the circle game trolling, why not the floss trolling too?

You are enabling white supremacists, twats who like to play at white supremacist and jack asses who like to make jokes based around hate. Just an FYI. Enough people like you and nobody will feel free to call out such things and the white supremacists will love you for it.

RandomName2 wrote: »

You're a big supporter of Sinn Fein and don't really see their brutal terrorist background as really much of a big deal. You are being sucked in by 4chan trolling about the circle game (a kids game), and don't lift your head to see the actual emblems relating to terrorism in your back yard. It's not a problem because it's your gang, I get it.

No quotes I see.
No I'm not. Aengus O'Snodaigh in my local SF and he's never seen a vote from me. In fact your entire comment is baseless shyte talk quite frankly.

You are helping idiots and racists normalise a symbol used as a white supremacy symbol. What if they start trolling the Nazi salute claiming we do it in schools to ask a question, so what's the problem?

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Mentioning you have a gay friend to excuse your use of homophobic slurs, just makes you sad.

No Matt. Your interpretation of why I said it is what is sad.

I didn't think it needed to be spelled out to you but we are where we are. I said that I sometimes use (what you would call) "homophobic" slurs but I also mentioned that in order to do so, intent and context are key.

When I am with my friend we would joke about and I might say something along the lines of "jesus stop being such a f*g" if he does something stereotypically gay. He might call me a "breeder" if I do something stereotypically straight.

There is no intent there and in the context of the situation (i.e two lifelong friends joking about) using what you would consider slurs acceptable.

The reason my friend's sexuality was brought up, is because it is a clear example of when your list of no-no words become redundant. It wasn't to excuse anything. It was to give an example.

And again, to even infer that someone is a homophobe because they know when and where it is acceptable to use certain words is, as I said, laughable.

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You are helping idiots and racists normalise a symbol used as a white supremacy symbol.

You are giving idiots and racists power and legitimising them with your calls to have it labelled as solely a white supremacist gesture. It is absurd.

I think you are spectacularly missing the point here.

I am not defending white supremacy or the use by some white supremacists of the ok gesture.

What I am defending is the right of other people to use it and not automatically be seen as a white supremacist.

What people who are worried about the rise of the gesture are doing is some modern version of the Streisland Effect.