Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Beasty

A number of posts deleted - now please get back to the topic or don't bother posting

Thanks

ohnonotgmail

So the question has arisen after the election results of whether anti-fa are really relevant to Ireland. Given the poor showing of pretty much every rightwing candidate i think it is fair to say that they are not. we should be grateful that they are not relevant.

Brian?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So the question has arisen after the election results of whether anti-fa are really relevant to Ireland. Given the poor showing of pretty much every rightwing candidate i think it is fair to say that they are not. we should be grateful that they are not relevant.

I disagree. I think anti fascism is always relevant. They can rest east though.

WrenBoy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So the question has arisen after the election results of whether anti-fa are really relevant to Ireland. Given the poor showing of pretty much every rightwing candidate i think it is fair to say that they are not. we should be grateful that they are not relevant.

They're not needed anywhere in the west really.

20Cent

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So the question has arisen after the election results of whether anti-fa are really relevant to Ireland. Given the poor showing of pretty much every rightwing candidate i think it is fair to say that they are not. we should be grateful that they are not relevant.

Do they even exist much at all?
Don't seem to be active at all in Ireland.

Brian?

WrenBoy wrote: »

They're not needed anywhere in the west really.

Not even in the US where far right groups march regularly?

riffmongous

WrenBoy wrote: »

They're not needed anywhere in the west really.

Austria and Germany still have plenty of Nazis lurking about

WrenBoy

Brian? wrote: »

Not even in the US where far right groups march regularly?

Firstly it depends on your definition of far right, as this is not an objective term.

To your question. In my opinion No, they are counter productive. The only effect they have on groups is to galvanise them and make them appear more powerful/popular than they are.
Sometimes antifa's violence against groups results in more support going to that group as some people who would have been on the fence might take the view, hey those masked people are attacking people, stopping them from protesting and getting out their message, not a message of racism but lets say a christian, pro gun group, well people who are christian and pro gun would be like "Im gonna go to the next one of those to stand up to those guys too" rinse and repeat, its a vicious cycle.

The vast majority of people have no time for racism and all this ****e, people are just trying to get along. By all means stand up for what you believe in, protests and counter protests peacefully are the way to go but this new brand of intimidation and shouting people down and shutting down events and the blatant antifa violence is the wrong tactic and only turns people away.

TLDR: Issues aren't usually black and white and when you act like they are you could end up pushing people into the black.

WrenBoy

riffmongous wrote: »

Austria and Germany still have plenty of Nazis lurking about

There will always be people with extreme beliefs in every country, white, black, asian, muslim, jewish, christians, eco-terrorists etc.. they are called extreme beliefs because they are far from the norm and therefore a small minority.
Education is the key, not othering and violence, if anything that will just cement these people in their beliefs. Using extremism to battle extremism is not the answer imo.

20Cent

WrenBoy wrote: »

There will always be people with extreme beliefs in every country, white, black, asian, muslim, jewish, christians, eco-terrorists etc.. they are called extreme beliefs because they are far from the norm and therefore a small minority.
Education is the key, not othering and violence, if anything that will just cement these people in their beliefs. Using extremism to battle extremism is not the answer imo.

Didn't work out so well in WWII.
Pity no one was able to stop the rise of the nazi's before they got too powerful to stop without a world war.

riffmongous

WrenBoy wrote: »

There will always be people with extreme beliefs in every country, white, black, asian, muslim, jewish, christians, eco-terrorists etc.. they are called extreme beliefs because they are far from the norm and therefore a small minority.
Education is the key, not othering and violence, if anything that will just cement these people in their beliefs. Using extremism to battle extremism is not the answer imo.

And yet here we are, plenty of Nazis still about these parts

Outlaw Pete

Spoiled brat scum.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1226251546540642304

statesaver

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Spoiled brat scum.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1226251546540642304

Stunning and brave.

So, do they not like cops because they are fascists or do they not like cops because they disrupt Antifa ? who act like fascists

20Cent

statesaver wrote: »

Stunning and brave.

So, do they not like cops because they are fascists or do they not like cops because they disrupt Antifa ? who act like fascists

The KKK were due to march in Portland.
The cops were facilitating this.
The march was cancelled because a libertarian explained the error of their ways to the kkk antifa were their to counter protest them.

1800_Ladladlad

Christ.

1800_Ladladlad

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Spoiled brat scum.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1226251546540642304

Any person or group of people who actively take part in behaviour like this are simply cretins and if you think there is nothing wrong with it you, you need to take a hard look at your self. I can guarantee that if a member of the public tried to intervene or stop them, the rest of the stazzi gimps would attack them and then they act the oppressed little victims

riffmongous

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Christ.

Knock yourself out

https://www.facebook.com/fpoefails/?ref=br_rs

BarnardsLoop

Don't worry, someone will be along shortly to explain that they don't count/they're not really Nazis/you're the real Nazi for noticing them/but whatabout <normal people who oppose fascists>.

As uncharitable as it may be, there's an awful bang of this from the usual fascist apologists here: youtube.com/watch?v=zvgZtdmyKlI

WrenBoy

20Cent wrote: »

Didn't work out so well in WWII.
Pity no one was able to stop the rise of the nazi's before they got too powerful to stop without a world war.

Indeed, unfortunately the term nazi is now being applied willy nilly, even to people who adhere to no nazi doctrine but instead are just conservative or hold viewpoints those like yourself find unpalatable.
In this misguided goal to "stamp out nazi's before they rise" your basically saying I don't like what these guys stand for so lets get them now before there message spreads, basically pre-crime.
Also I have never encountered a nazi in my life and Ive been around, lucky enough to be able to travel a lot through work and leisure. I don't find labelling everyone who is to the right of you a nazi a progressive tactic, quite the opposite actually.

20Cent

WrenBoy wrote: »

Indeed, unfortunately the term nazi is now being applied willy nilly, even to people who adhere to no nazi doctrine but instead are just conservative or hold viewpoints those like yourself find unpalatable.
In this misguided goal to "stamp out nazi's before they rise" your basically saying I don't like what these guys stand for so lets get them now before there message spreads, basically pre-crime.
Also I have never encountered a nazi in my life and Ive been around, lucky enough to be able to travel a lot through work and leisure. I don't find labelling everyone who is to the right of you a nazi a progressive tactic, quite the opposite actually.

Antifa don't show up at regular conservative events, they rarely show up at things so the idea that they are attacking anyone conservative clearly isn't true. Unfortunately I've come accross a few nazis they do exist.

WrenBoy

20Cent wrote: »

Antifa don't show up at regular conservative events, they rarely show up at things so the idea that they are attacking anyone conservative clearly isn't true. Unfortunately I've come accross a few nazis they do exist.

Forgive me but I find that hard to believe. I do believe they exist, I don't believe you've "come across a few"

CtevenSrowder

20Cent wrote: »

Antifa don't show up at regular conservative events, they rarely show up at things so the idea that they are attacking anyone conservative clearly isn't true. Unfortunately I've come accross a few nazis they do exist.

Yes they do. This has been pointed out numerous occasions. As per the ADL:

However, antifa, who have many anti-police anarchists in their ranks, can also target law enforcement with both verbal and physical assaults because they believe the police are providing cover for white supremacists. They will sometimes chant against fascism and against law enforcement in the same breath.

And more pertinently:

Antifa have expanded their definition of fascist/fascism to include not just white supremacists and other extremists, but also many conservatives and supporters of President Trump. In Berkeley, for example, some antifa were captured on video harassing Trump supporters with no known extremist connections. Antifa have also falsely characterized some recent right wing rallies as “Nazi” events, even though they were not actually white supremacist in nature.

This along with the endless videos of anti-fa targetting non-Nazis that are littered throughout this thread shows you you are simply wrong.

Lonesomerhodes

Brian? wrote: »

I disagree. I think anti fascism is always relevant. They can rest east though.

Yes drug addict dole skinheads in balaclava's who attack people including young children on the street they disagree with or who's parents defend free speech are relevant erm for what purpose?.

I wonder would you think they are relevant if it was your children they were attacking on the street?.

I think I chocolate teapot has more use's to be honest!.

20Cent

WrenBoy wrote: »

Forgive me but I find that hard to believe. I do believe they exist, I don't believe you've "come across a few"

Dublin only recently.



And yes have come across a few not in Ireland though.

Tasfasdf

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Christ.

20Cent please look at the above. IMO this is the best medical advice for all Antifa members.

alastair

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yes drug addict dole skinheads in balaclava's who attack people including young children on the street they disagree with or who's parents defend free speech are relevant erm for what purpose?.

I wonder would you think they are relevant if it was your children they were attacking on the street?.

I think I chocolate teapot has more use's to be honest!.

No amount of underlining makes the claim above any more truthful. It’s incorrect on pretty much every aspect.

20Cent

Tasfasdf wrote: »

20Cent please look at the above. IMO this is the best medical advice for all Antifa members.

No doubt it is a small number, but one has to have a zero tolerance for it.
Marches, talks in Universities, tv/radio interviews these are all there to normalise it. They are planning it long term.
Once it becomes normalised it's too late.

suicide_circus

20Cent wrote: »

No doubt it is a small number, but one has to have a zero tolerance for it.
Marches, talks in Universities, tv/radio interviews these are all there to normalise it. They are planning it long term.
Once it becomes normalised it's too late.

Normalised? Actual bona fide Nazis are considered on par with paedophiles. Interestingly paedophiles are the far more numerous.

Eric Cartman

20Cent wrote: »

Dublin only recently.



And yes have come across a few not in Ireland though.

somebody putting up their hand to do a roman salute does not make them a nazi
that person was clearly a plant with a followed cameraman
you did not meet this person as you claimed to have met nazi's

20Cent

suicide_circus wrote: »

Normalised? Actual bona fide Nazis are considered on par with paedophiles. Interestingly paedophiles are the far more numerous.

Richard Spencer was being interviewed on mainstream tv.
He did the nazi salute at a trump inauguration event.
Well on his way to injecting his ideas of hate into the mainstream.
Imagine Charlottesville went ahead unopposed it would just get bigger every year.

Antifa put a stop to that.