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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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    #842
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Of all the bad arguments here, of all the bad faith arguments too in defense of violence, this has got to be the weakest.

    Weakest but necessary in the never-ending circular reasoning chain :D

    He's not a journalist-> He is a journalist
    But he doxed people -> He did no such thing, show proof
    He's far right -> He's a journalist
    He's not a journalist...etc..


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    #843
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Are you still beating that horse?

    The vast vast vast vast majority of journalists do not have journalism degrees. They are journalists because they write for newspapers. All you need for that is writing ability (and not even that in many cases).

    I was going to do some research for you on this but it’s fairly simple and you do it yourself. Try researching the background of the journalists on the NYT, the Times, the Guardian, the Irish Times and so on.

    Conversely probably most people with journalism degrees are flipping burgers.


    Of all the bad arguments here, of all the bad faith arguments too in defense of violence, this has got to be the weakest.

    Meh....its not bad faith?


    Just think people need to be qualified to do.a job....but sure if you dont...i guess thats your own issue,thankfully ot wont affect me


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    #844
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Weakest but necessary in the never-ending circular reasoning chain :D

    He's not a journalist-> He is a journalist
    But he doxed people -> He did no such thing, show proof
    He's far right -> He's a journalist
    He's not a journalist...etc..

    Meh....i havnt ssid half these things...only hes not a journalist


    But sure make up what yous need


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    #845
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Meh....i havnt ssid half these things...only hes not a journalist

    But sure make up what yous need
    I wasn't talking about you, another poster did. It was a circular argument if you go back a few pages and see it.


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    #846
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Kimsang wrote: »
    I wasn't talking about you, another poster did. It was a circular argument if you go back a few pages and see it.

    Ok


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    #847
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Does he write for a news company or just tweet and blog?


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    #848
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Ok

    Would you call Sue Lloyd Roberts a journalist?

    She had no formal education (like Ngo) often worked alone(like Ngo), went to highly controversial areas to report from (like Ngo), spoke truth to power(like Ngo) was absolutely not violent(like Ngo).
    • 1995: European Women of Achievement Award, European Union of Women (EUW), London
    • 2002: Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) in the 2002 New Year Honours for services to broadcast journalism
    • 2011: Emmy Award for her reports from North Korea.
    • 2013: Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) in the 2013 Birthday Honours for services to journalism


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    #849
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    How?
    If one of them said I hate Nazis because they are violent and then said they love seeing them get a hiding, it would be the same thing, however the modus operandi of the white supremacist and Alt-Right is the denigration and bad treatment of people based on skin colour, ethnicity, religion and race. This puts them in the wrong from the get go IMO.
    For me a lot of these groups have members who are up for a fight and feel justified if the cause suits their politics. I disagree with those kinds of people

    You should also disagree then with the masked white mob who beat the crap out of an gay Asian journalist.


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    #850
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Would you call Sue Lloyd Roberts a journalist?

    She had no formal education (like Ngo) often worked alone(like Ngo), went to highly controversial areas to report from (like Ngo), spoke truth to power(like Ngo) was absolutely not violent(like Ngo).
    • 1995: European Women of Achievement Award, European Union of Women (EUW), London
    • 2002: Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) in the 2002 New Year Honours for services to broadcast journalism
    • 2011: Emmy Award for her reports from North Korea.
    • 2013: Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) in the 2013 Birthday Honours for services to journalism
    Simple question....was she qualified?


    Noone anywhere she or this ngo chap dont do good work (im sure they do??)....but to me anyways to be called a jourmalist,you need to qualify/have necessary qualificayion


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    #851
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    You should also disagree then with the masked white mob who beat the crap out of an gay Asian journalist.

    I do. My earlier comments were on the hypocrisy of not liking Antifa because they are violent but liking to see them get a beating and are being 'bitches' when they call the cops.
    Don't bother playing sides. The ALT-Right hate minorities, the Antifa hate them. I'd happily side with any anti-fascist group. TBF the guy who ran over and killed that protester in Charlottesville really let the Alt-Right side down, despite them being 'some very fine people' as the president thinks they are.


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    #852
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I do. My earlier comments were on the hypocrisy of not liking Antifa because they are violent but liking to see them get a beating and are like bitches when they call the cops.a
    Don't bother playing sides. The ALT-Right hate minorities, the Antifa hate them. I'd happily side with any anti-fascist group. TBF the guy who ran over and killed that protester in Charlottesville really let the Alt-Right side down, 'some very fine people' as the president thinks they are.

    The discussion here is about Antifa.

    Here’s a response that would be condemnation of Antifa.

    “Antifa was wrong”.

    Here’s some diversions.

    “Antifa was wrong but what about....”
    “He’s not a journalist”
    “He’s a fascist”
    “He’s a white supremacist”
    “He doxxed somebody or other”
    “He supports the proud boys”.

    None of these are true.

    As for right wing violence, it is worse and is organised and yet is not the subject of this thread.

    Easy enough to condemn the attack and move on.

    This is not doing the left any favours not least (I would think) amongst Asian Americans.


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    #853
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Fascism hates everyone else(bar themselves) based on race, gender and sexuality to name a few with the dose of brainwashing religion thrown in just like their modern day descendants who want a return of. Communism was the majority poor fighting the wealthy elite back then, it was the gateway for a better life in that era and yes we know it didn't turn out that way.
    Neo capitalism in modern times has produced huge inequality, this system cannot last forever, it's unsustainable with a few billionaires controlling the vast majority of the wealth. I prefer the socialist model of equality of Scandinavian countries instead of a system based on extreme personal greed.

    Have you ever read animal farm? The problem is not necessarily the system but the greed and corruption of the people controlling the system. Socialism gives even more power to government. More power = more corruption. The most successful system ever implemented has been capitalism. We have the same greed and corruption as always but the little man can work his way up and be rewarded for exceptionalism at least. Something you don't get with communism. Communism had even more inequality.
    _blaaz wrote: »
    Ok....i guess we agree to disagree.....just personally il only called qualified people journalists as i dont understand how its ok to need qualifications for one job....but not for another.... depending on how random posters feel about it :confused:

    How are you continuing this stupid bloody argument. There are thousands of hugely successful people in many fields who never got a college education or dropped out of college. Self taught billionaires. In the modern age where you can learn more than ever easier than ever you really don't need a college education for most jobs. Some examples, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Mark Zuckerberg. Now please stop with your terrible logic.


    I just noticed both of your names are very similar. Not dodgy at all.


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    #854
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    BloodBath wrote: »

    How are you continuing this stupid bloody argument. There are thousands of hugely successful people in many fields who never got a college education or dropped out of college. Self taught billionaires. In the modern age where you can learn more than ever easier than ever you really don't need a college education for most jobs. Some examples, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Mark Zuckerberg. Now please stop with your terrible logic.

    Im only replying to folk.quoting me.....im.failing to see the lack of logic in thinking people need to be qualified to do a job.....

    Namedrop sucessful all yous want....noone said you need qualifocations to be sucessful??



    I just noticed both of your names are very similar. Not dodgy at all.

    If you were least bit clued into irish culture youd know where my name comes from


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    #855
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    This is not doing the left any favours not least (I would think) amongst Asian Americans.

    A lot of Asian Americans are already feeling discriminated against by the left.

    They are suing harvard because apparently there are too many asians getting in, so they higher the bar needed for asians to enter.

    A Lawsuit by Asian-American Students Against Harvard Could End Affirmative Action as We Know It

    In the culture wars, Asian americans are being associated as privileged by the left.


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    #856
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Im only replying to folk.quoting me.....im.failing to see the lack of logic in thinking people need to be qualified to do a job.....namedrop sucessful all yous want....noone said you need qualifocations to be sucessful??






    If you were least bit clued into irish culture youd know where my name comes from

    You can be qualified without having a college degree. Do you understand yet? How many times do you need to beaten over the head with information before it sinks in?


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    #857
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Kimsang wrote: »
    A lot of Asian Americans are already feeling discriminated against by the left.

    They are suing harvard because apparently there are too many asians getting in, so they higher the bar needed for asians to enter.

    A Lawsuit by Asian-American Students Against Harvard Could End Affirmative Action as We Know It

    In the culture wars, Asian americans are being associated as privileged by the left.

    Is that not just racist??

    Why not have a pints system like we have here?


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    #858
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    BloodBath wrote: »
    You can be qualified without having a college degree. Do you understand yet?

    So i can just head out tomorrow and claim myself a doctor or journalist etc and work away...this deosnt stand up to any type anylsis (unless your counting stamdred based apprenticeships as aside of degrees,then i agree)

    How many times do you need to beaten over the head with information before it sinks in?
    Id say we'll have to agree to disagree on need for qualifications


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    #859
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    The discussion here is about Antifa.

    Here’s a response that would be condemnation of Antifa.

    “Antifa was wrong”.

    Here’s some diversions.

    “Antifa was wrong but what about....”
    “He’s not a journalist”
    “He’s a fascist”
    “He’s a white supremacist”
    “He doxxed somebody or other”
    “He supports the proud boys”.

    None of these are true.

    As for right wing violence, it is worse and is organised and yet is not the subject of this thread.

    Easy enough to condemn the attack and move on.

    This is not doing the left any favours not least (I would think) amongst Asian Americans.

    I said I was against it. Not sure what more I can add. I know little about the man and it's irrelevant, beating him was wrong, pseudo journalist or not.
    I went on to say I'd side with any antifascist group over a fascist group. Just because there are issues with antifa, that doesn't take away from the cause of anti-fascism, although I think that might be the plan in some sectors like 'the word racist has lost all meaning' and the like.
    Doing the left favours? We can only comment on individuals and groups, the left encompasses a lot more people than antifa, whereas the Alt-Right fly their flag of hate for all the ALT-Right. The left is about equality and fairness, as with some right wingers, while the ALT-Right is about privileged brats worried about losing their standing in the pecking order, or those they fooled into joining them.


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    #860
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    _blaaz wrote: »
    So i can just head out tomorrow and claim myself a doctor or journalist etc and work away...this deosnt stand up to any type anylsis (unless your counting stamdred based apprenticeships as aside of degrees,then i agree)



    Id say we'll have to agree to disagree on need for qualifications

    Omg the same dumb circular argument. No we won't agree to disagree. You are simply wrong.

    Obviously for some fields you need the qualification as has been stated multiple times already. For other fields, including journalism, this is not a requirement. Many of the most revered journalists did not have a college qualification.

    Do you understand yet? You've wasted enough of this thread with this stupid argument already. Just accept that you are wrong and move on.


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    #861
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    BloodBath wrote: »
    Omg the same dumb circular argument. No we won't agree to disagree. You are simply wrong.

    Repectfully id have to disagree,ive no intention of apoligising for thinking people need to be qualified to do a job
    Obviously for some fields you need the qualification as has been stated multiple times already. For other fields, including journalism, this is not a requirement. Many of the most revered journalists did not have a college qualification.

    So.you just need qualifications for jobs random.posters feel like....funny world this :pac:
    Do you understand yet? You've wasted enough of this thread with this stupid argument already. Just accept that you are wrong and move on.

    Except im.not wrong,how am.i supposed to know the random.jobs yous think qualifications dont count for :confused:...at best its a difference of opioion of which i can forgive...why you feel need to shout and scream.wrong over and over is all on you


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    #862
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    I give up. Gone far enough off topic already.

    This is exactly why people in the middle do not want to associate or support Antifa or their supporters.

    The far right groups are worse sure. Using a guys lack of college education as justification for him being beaten by Antifa is really low grade.

    His employers including The Wall Street Journal, New York Post and National Review, printed articles in their publications which he got paid for. Guess what? That makes him a professional journalist whether you like it or not.


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    #863
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    BloodBath wrote: »
    I give up. Gone far enough off topic already.

    This is exactly why people in the middle do not want to associate or support Antifa or their supporters.

    The far right groups are worse sure. Using a guys lack of college education as justification for him being beaten by Antifa is really low grade.

    Except.noone did this??
    His employers including The Wall Street Journal, New York Post and National Review, printed articles in their publications which he got paid for. Guess what? That makes him a professional journalist whether you like it or not.

    He is still unqualified?,and as such shouldnt be working as journalist....like i said im.sure hes good...but if unqualified shouldnt be doing it


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    #864
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Except.noone did this??



    He is still unqualified?

    It's writing opinion pieces or factual accounts of events. Not open heart surgery. His employers were happy enough with his writing ability to give him a job and print articles written by him. They deemed him qualified therefore he is qualified.

    Qualified does not mean you have a college degree. If it is a requirement of a certain job then yes. It is not a requirement of journalism.
    qualified (ˈkwɒlɪˌfaɪd)
    adj
    1. having the abilities, qualities, attributes, etc, necessary to perform a particular job or task


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    #865
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    BloodBath wrote: »
    Have you ever read animal farm? The problem is not necessarily the system but the greed and corruption of the people controlling the system. Socialism gives even more power to government. More power = more corruption. The most successful system ever implemented has been capitalism. We have the same greed and corruption as always but the little man can work his way up and be rewarded for exceptionalism at least. Something you don't get with communism. Communism had even more inequality.

    You're contradicting yourself. Capitalism has corrupted the system too with the greed of money with billionaire's controlling the majority of the wealth and those same billionaires control the information that we receive via the media influencing opinion to their own needs and yet that is ok in your book!

    Socialism of the Scandinavian form has the best form with the lack of corruption and greed, equality for all.


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    #866
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    I reckon a journalist would follow some standards for example not posting peoples names and photos without knowing exactly ho they are, not gleefully posting about someone being "knocked clean out", not putting people's lives in danger, not becoming embedded with a group and staying impartial. Ngo wasn't a journalist rather a participant/cheerleader in that case.


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    #867
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Noted Jewish Nazi, Brett Weinstein did an interview with fellow Neo Nazi Andy Ngo on his assault

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4u1zo6OpQ&t=

    Alt Right Stooge Joe "Goebbels" Rogan did an analysis piece with Weinsteins brother, (and noted Jewish Nazi) Eric on the topic of Antifa.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fup7Fcs7UM


    So many nazis popping up that if I was an Antifeefee fan I'd worry :D


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    #868
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    Bambi wrote: »
    Noted Jewish Nazi, Brett Weinstein did an interview with fellow Neo Nazi Andy Ngo on his assault

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4u1zo6OpQ&t=

    Alt Right Stooge Joe "Goebbels" Rogan did an analysis piece with Weinsteins brother, (and noted Jewish Nazi) Eric on the topic of Antifa.

    <SNIP>

    So many nazis popping up that if I was an Antifeefee fan I'd worry :D

    Toe Rogan is literally Hitler reincarnated. :pac:


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    #869
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Getting offended at things no one is saying is new level snowflake and they say the left are over sensitive.


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    #870
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    20Cent wrote: »
    Getting offended at things no one is saying is new level snowflake and they say the left are over sensitive.

    So you've completely changed your opinion on Andy Ngo? Good man.


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    #871
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Bambi wrote: »
    So you've completely changed your opinion on Andy Ngo? Good man.

    Never said he was, several real times, even put it in bold.


This discussion has been closed.
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