Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

biko

Is really a CGI by https://www.mikeandrewnash.com/ so - fake news

Mr. Karate

Danzy wrote: »

Black man stabbed with a 7 inch knife by an Antifa activist in Portland who is also a convicted peado, which is bit of a pattern.

They practically endorsed it recently in Dublin when they disrupted the rally.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Would you be surprised by this reaction earlier in the thread?...

Quote: Overheal
Saw that earlier. The guy was grabbed from behind by someone trying to confront him. Not my first choice to have a knife over pepper spray but it likely would pass muster for self defense in court depending on the investigation into the alleged stalking behavior.


Nothing to see here, stabbing is now self defence, unless of course you're on the "wrong" side of the debate.

A knife is a lawful thing to carry in several states including mine and can be used in self defense. Not so in Oregon but this doesn’t mean knives cannot be used in self defense elsewhere, just as surely as firearms can. Get over it.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Is really a CGI by https://www.mikeandrewnash.com/ so - fake news

Okay. There’s a lot of misinformation flying around. Trump is even using images from other countries in campaign material and calling it riots from here so are we going to engage in amalgamating all disinformation or what? 5k is small reach for twitter. Twitter user sees photo out of context and reshares it..

Brian?

Snake Plisken wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287315687262707712?s=19

Cops should just shoot these Antifa scumbags!

I hope for your sake you’ve never been to a rave if that frightens you.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

A knife is a lawful thing to carry in several states including mine and can be used in self defense. Not so in Oregon but this doesn’t mean knives cannot be used in self defense elsewhere, just as surely as firearms can. Get over it.

Get over the fact that you feel stabbing somebody in the torso is a reasonable form of self defence when you act as some sort of barometer for morality on so many issues?

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Get over the fact that you feel stabbing somebody in the torso is a reasonable form of self defence when you act as some sort of barometer for morality on so many issues?

So you're just admitting you have a personal problem with me. Overheal Derangement Syndrome, as it were. Get over it. Please. Jesus. If you really want to beef PM me.

Overheal

The feds just keep adding more and more gasoline to this fire.

Man suffers traumatic brain injury after being shot by a federal officer. He was holding a boombox with both hands up in the air; just prior to that he tosses, gently I might add, a riot control round back across the street.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hyj1a4/the_moment_portland_protester_donavan_labella_was/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

So you're just admitting you have a personal problem with me. Overheal Derangement Syndrome, as it were. Get over it. Please. Jesus. If you really want to beef PM me.

I just find it ironic that you are so against some violence in yet you rationalise other violence.
Personally I find all violence objectionable.

To me that is blatant hypocrisy, I'm just pointing that out.

As for Overheal derangement syndrome? Holy self aggrandizing, narcissistic nonsense Batman.

There's plenty of other people on your side of this discussion I take issue with, but they aren't as blatantly hypocritical as you are, we all get picked up on our opinions here, if you have an issue with me talking about an on topic issue report it.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

I just find it ironic that you are so against some violence in yet you rationalise other violence.

Or you just fail to grasp the concept of self defense.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

Or you just fail to grasp the concept of self defense.

I think you need to consider the notion of reasonable force.

Stabbing somebody in the torso(you know, where all your vital organs are located) with a 7 inch blade does not constitute reasonable force.

Danzy

Brian? wrote: »

I hope for your sake you’ve never been to a rave if that frightens you.

Several officers blinded from it, some have permanent loss.

You know how serious a powerful laser beam like that can be.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

I think you need to consider the notion of reasonable force.

Stabbing somebody in the torso(you know, where all your vital organs are located) with a 7 inch blade does not constitute reasonable force.

Single stab in self defense seems measured to me. Assailant sneaks up behind him and grabs him forcefully. At that point complaining about the size of the blade is like complaining about the caliber of a bullet.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

The feds just keep adding more and more gasoline to this fire.

Man suffers traumatic brain injury after being shot by a federal officer. He was holding a boombox with both hands up in the air; just prior to that he tosses, gently I might add, a riot control round back across the street.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hyj1a4/the_moment_portland_protester_donavan_labella_was/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Does it matter if it was gently tossed or not?

biko

Snake Plisken wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287315687262707712?s=19

Cops should just shoot these Antifa scumbags!

Although I agree this is not ok behaviour by protesters, shooting them is too much The chance of actual harm is very low thankfully.
However it must be very intimidating for an officer to have lasers pointed at them knowing the person(s) on the other end wishes them harm.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Does it matter if it was gently tossed or not?

To point out that it wasn't thrown maliciously or with the intent to retaliate or harm any officers, yes. Their response to him tossing it back to the opposite curb was to send him to hospital for reconstructive head surgery.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Several officers blinded from it, some have permanent loss.

You know how serious a powerful laser beam like that can be.

Any sources for that other than the White House? The same WH official also told me last week that Paw Patrol is canceled so you'll forgive me if I don't take her seriously.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

Single stab in self defense seems measured to me. Assailant sneaks up behind him and grabs him forcefully. At that point complaining about the size of the blade is like complaining about the caliber of a bullet.

A single stab into the torso with a 7 inch blade which could rupture any number of vital organs?

He could have drove the handle of the knife into the man's ribs and he would have gotten out of his grasp, but he chose to stab the blade of the knife indiscriminately into the man's torso, not knowing where his blade was going to strike.

I think you are making a mistake defending the actions of this person, and sadly yes the size of the blade does have a massive bearing on the outcome.

Incidentally, since you mentioned a comparison between the size of a blade and the calibre of a bullet, do you believe had this person discharged a firearm at this man that it would have been an acceptable outcome?

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

A single stab into the torso with a 7 inch blade which could rupture any number of vital organs?

He could have drove the handle of the knife into the man's ribs and he would have gotten out of his grasp, but he chose to stab the blade of the knife indiscriminately into the man's torso, not knowing where his blade was going to strike.

I think you are making a mistake defending the actions of this person, and sadly yes the size of the blade does have a massive bearing on the outcome.

No organs hit, and he didn't go and twist the knife or anything. Cut and dry act of self defense. Now, Oregon law doesn't allow concealed blades, and that's that. Had this happened in SC he would have walked off without charges based on what we see in the video. People in my own household have carried knives for defense - I know Irish who have as well, in fact. Not everyone is God's gift to unarmed combat, and they still have a right to defend themselves. My fiance carried one throughout college because the risk of being mugged or worse in a parking lot was tangible. On my own campus there were rapes of students jogging at night in my time there. Some states split hairs over the size and type of knife allowed, SC is not one of those states AFAIK, they just want people to be safe, and your right to use it flies out the window if involved in a crime.

Incidentally, since you mentioned a comparison between the size of a blade and the calibre of a bullet, do you believe had this person discharged a firearm at this man that it would have been an acceptable outcome?

In most states no because concealed carry requires a permit, though assuming he had one yes. There was another incident this weekend where a truck driver pulled a gun out on protesters in Eugene, Oregon. In turn, a protester pointed one at him. As far as I can tell, the situation resolved without incident, both carriers relegated to a stalemate:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hyl8bw/truck_driver_pulls_a_gun_on_protesters_then_one/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

edit: Oregon is open-carry, concealed carry by permit.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Any sources for that other than the White House? The same WH official also told me last week that Paw Patrol is canceled so you'll forgive me if I don't take her seriously.

Director of Operations for the Federal response, a man named Cline, was speaking about it.

Brian?

Danzy wrote: »

Several officers blinded from it, some have permanent loss.

You know how serious a powerful laser beam like that can be.

I work powerful lasers. They need power supplies the size of a car to power them.

Nothing hand held can be considered “powerful”. They’re laser lights, the type used in nightclubs.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

No organs hit, and he didn't go and twist the knife or anything. Cut and dry act of self defense. Now, Oregon law doesn't allow concealed blades, and that's that. Had this happened in SC he would have walked off without charges based on what we see in the video. People in my own household have carried knives for defense - I know Irish who have as well, in fact. Not everyone is God's gift to unarmed combat, and they still have a right to defend themselves. My fiance carried one throughout college because the risk of being mugged or worse in a parking lot was tangible. On my own campus there were rapes of students jogging at night in my time there. Some states split hairs over the size and type of knife allowed, SC is not one of those states AFAIK, they just want people to be safe, and your right to use it flies out the window if involved in a crime.

If there were no organs hit, it wasn't because of any precision on the part of the person holding the knife.

You making a glib statement of opinion such as "Cut and dry act of self defence" is little more than you blustering through the discussion with your fingers in your ears shouting "la la la", essentially doing everything you can to not acknowledge anything of worth in the other persons contribution to the discussion.

I disagree that knives are ever an acceptable instrument of self defence, particularly when the person using them doesn't know how to use them correctly, namely because of the damage they could inflict through ignorance and the fact that the knife could be taken off of them and used against them.

As for you anecdotes, I've already addressed in detail why knives would have been a poor choice of self defence in those circumstances.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.

Overheal

That's your right to that opinion, however the laws in many jurisdictions in the United States either directly or tacitly disagree with you.

nullzero

Brian? wrote: »

I work powerful lasers. They need power supplies the size of a car to power them.

Nothing hand held can be considered “powerful”. They’re laser lights, the type used in nightclubs.

The below article would appear to disagree with that assessment pointing(no pun intended) to the issues arising from the use of green lights as opposed to the more typical red light handheld laser pointers. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-a-pocket-laser-damage/

However without knowing precisely what was being used it's difficult to confidently state what the outcome in these circumstances could/would have been.

Eric Cartman

Overheal wrote: »

The feds just keep adding more and more gasoline to this fire.

Man suffers traumatic brain injury after being shot by a federal officer. He was holding a boombox with both hands up in the air; just prior to that he tosses, gently I might add, a riot control round back across the street.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hyj1a4/the_moment_portland_protester_donavan_labella_was/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

the great thing about that video is it does demonstrate protestors using high output lasers to try and blind officers. Abhorrent behaviour.

Brian?

nullzero wrote: »

The below article would appear to disagree with that assessment pointing(no pun intended) to the issues arising from the use of green lights as opposed to the more typical red light handheld laser pointers. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-a-pocket-laser-damage/

However without knowing precisely what was being used it's difficult to confidently state what the outcome in these circumstances could/would have been.

That article doesn’t disagree with what I said.

I’m going to argue from a position of eminence here, you can’t carry the power supply needed to make a laser dangerous. You can be a nuisance, but that’s about it.

nullzero

Brian? wrote: »

That article doesn’t disagree with what I said.

I’m going to argue from a position of eminence here, you can’t carry the power supply needed to make a laser dangerous. You can be a nuisance, but that’s about it.

It states in the opening paragraph that eye damage is not probable but possible.

You are stating that it isn't possible, so the article demonstrably disagrees with what you are saying.

I'll accept you have experience in this field (taking your word for it), but it seems that in cannot be stated definitively that eye damage is not possible.

Overheal

At any rate feds are now equipped with safety eyewear worn for operating around lasers.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

At any rate feds are now equipped with safety eyewear worn for operating around lasers.

Do they always wear them?

I worked with people who wouldn't wear their body armour because it was "too bulky".

Brian?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the great thing about that video is it does demonstrate protestors using high output lasers to try and blind officers. Abhorrent behaviour.

“High output laser” isn’t a technical term. It’s meaningless scaremongering