Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

klaaaz

Blueshoe wrote: »

Nothing fair about the majority doing all of the work while the rest have the hand out expecting everything for nothing.

If it was a relationship it would be over after a few months.

If you don't contribute anything you don't get anything. That's fair.

Exceptions made for those who cannot contribute. Ie disabled etc.
Want a house of your own or somewhere to rent?
Get a job and earn your way like the rest.

And nothing said about the banksters who put enormous debt to the tune of many billions with 60bn interest paid by the Irish taxpayer in the last 10 years. Your example of speaking for the majority who work is misleading, typical right wing propaganda forgetting to mention the majority of the wealth is controlled by the handful of billionaires.

The majority who work are struggling to afford a home, afford to raise a kid, afford healthcare and afford to run a car to name a few in your capitalism system which promotes gross inequality!

Scandinavian socialist countries don't have those problems, everything is affordable which results in a fairer society. But right wingers like you don't want a fairer society, it's greed only for the wealthy is your motto!

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

Progress!

What are you talking about? What has progressed? If a woman never wants children, I have never once suggested she should be forced to and would find the idea of her never having an unwanted pregnancy somewhat reassuring.

What is your point?

Blueshoe

klaaaz wrote: »

And nothing said about the banksters who put enormous debt to the tune of many billions with 60bn interest paid by the Irish taxpayer in the last 10 years. Your example of speaking for the majority who work is misleading, typical right wing propaganda forgetting to mention the majority of the wealth is controlled by the handful of billionaires.

The majority who work are struggling to afford a home, afford to raise a kid, afford healthcare and afford to run a car to name a few in your capitalism system which promotes gross inequality!

Scandinavian socialist countries don't have those problems, everything is affordable which results in a fairer society. But right wingers like you don't want a fairer society, it's greed only for the wealthy is your motto!

You want to live in Norway?

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=Norway

This country has no money to throw at the issues you mentioned.
20 billion a year spent on social welfare
17 billion on healthcare.

Our total budget to run the country is 76 billion and half of that is already spent on the above.
Where will the money come from?
Our highest tax rate is already higher than Norways. I'm not paying anymore taxes

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

When it comes to abortion, yes, nuanced is one of the most appropriate and a favourite word of mine to use.

I don't know why you are bringing up religion. You didn't answer my question. Would you support a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy for any reason up until a week, or a day, before her due date?

She is not legally allowed to terminate at will actually anywhere unless her life is at risk so your question is irrelevant, the law says up to 12 weeks not a day before birth!

Deleted User wrote: »

In a way, I agree. It is very hard for couples to buy a house and have a family. We also have a very generous social welfare scheme which actually makes it financially beneficial to pop out children as a single parent.

There certainly are changes I would like to see made with regards to housing prices when it comes to vulture funds. I don't see how childcare should be legislated for. I don't think socialism is the way forward.

You agree that due to right wing capitalist policies, working couples(your favourite brand) struggle to afford a house and cannot afford to raise children with sky high childcare costs amongst others. But yet you have no problem with this capitalist system of financial terror on the family unit, that is you ignoring the far successful socialist left wing system for the family unit in Scandinavian countries and preferring the breakup of the family unit in unequal Ireland. Hypocritical.

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

What are you talking about? What has progressed? If a woman never wants children, I have never once suggested she should be forced to and would find the idea of her never having an unwanted pregnancy somewhat reassuring.

What is your point?

You finally support a woman's right to have control over her own body!

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

She is not legally allowed to terminate at will actually anywhere unless her life is at risk so your question is irrelevant, the law says up to 12 weeks not a day before birth!

I asked your opinion, not what the law was. Would you support the right of a woman to have an abortion up until a day before birth?

klaaaz wrote:

You finally support a woman's right to have control over her own body!

Do you? Unless you agree with the above, can you really say you do? Or is it a little more (wait for it...) nuanced than that?

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

You agree that due to right wing capitalist policies, working couples(your favourite brand) struggle to afford a house and cannot afford to raise children with sky high childcare costs amongst others. But yet you have no problem with this capitalist system of financial terror on the family unit, that is you ignoring the far successful socialist left wing system for the family unit in Scandinavian countries and preferring the breakup of the family unit in unequal Ireland. Hypocritical.

Well that's just a post full of ****e and buzzwords.

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

I asked your opinion, not what the law was. Would you support the right of a woman to have an abortion up until a day before birth?

Do you? Unless you agree with the above, can you really say you do? Or is it a little more (wait for it...) nuanced than that?

As I said in the previous post, only when the mother's life is at risk and that's the law, not the 8th amendment! What is your opinion on this matter?

Deleted User wrote: »

Well that's just a post full of ****e and buzzwords.

The truth hurts that your right wing capitalist system destroys the family unit, ya know the traditional one that you love.

20Cent

Danzy wrote: »

They difference between militant fascists and Antifa, is just of background.

An Antifa member is the same type of person as a neo Nazi, just coming from a leafier neighbourhood.

It is the thrill of the mob, beating someone, anyone, that excites.

Not really one is for white supremacy authoritarian rule. Antifa are against it. None of these marches there'd be no antifa.

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

As I said in the previous post, only when the mother's life is at risk and that's the law, not the 8th amendment! What is your opinion on this matter?

Cool. So you don't believe her body, her choice. You believe that a woman shouldn't have control over her body after 12 weeks of pregnancy unless her life is at risk.

Progress.

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

Cool. So you don't believe her body, her choice. You believe that a woman shouldn't have control over her body after 12 weeks of pregnancy unless her life is at risk.

Progress.

What was your opinion on a woman wishing to abort a day before birth? You never stated it.

Nice try on your twisting of language, it's still her body her choice for the vast majority of women who wish or wish not to get pregnant and carry a baby to term, no matter how you twist it with your traditional attitude. The same traditionalist attitude that ignores the plight of right wing policies destroying the family unit that families cannot afford to have kids..

Blueshoe

klaaaz wrote: »

What was your opinion on a woman wishing to abort a day before birth? You never stated it.

Nice try on your twisting of language, it's still her body her choice for the vast majority of women who wish or wish not to get pregnant and carry a baby to term, no matter how you twist it with your traditional attitude. The same traditionalist attitude that ignores the plight of right wing policies destroying the family unit that families cannot afford to have kids..

Norway eh?
That idea lasted 15 mins

klaaaz

Blueshoe wrote: »

Norway eh?
That idea lasted 15 mins

Oh yes our American friend, thought you were having a first time read of an Irish history book for the last 15 minutes with the look of astonishment on your face that our 1916 independence patriot heroes were left wing and socialist!

Oh Norway which you picked as the most prosperous country in Scandinavia thanks to their government investing all the proceeds from oil in a future national development fund(like a pension). Our government used our version of the fund(National pension reserve fund was it's correct name yes?) to bail out the banks, no objection from you of course to support the wealthy!

Typical socialist idea of the Norwegians investing for the future of their people with equality for the populace instead of handing it all to private individual billionaire's at the expense of the population's welfare.

Blueshoe

klaaaz wrote: »

Oh yes our American friend, thought you were having a first time read of an Irish history book for the last 15 minutes with the look of astonishment on your face that our 1916 independence patriot heroes were left wing and socialist!

Oh Norway which you picked as the most prosperous country in Scandinavia thanks to their government investing all the proceeds from oil in a future national development fund(like a pension). Our government used our version of the fund(National pension reserve fund was it's correct name yes?) to bail out the banks, no objection from you of course to support the wealthy!

Typical socialist idea of the Norwegians investing for the future of their people with equality for the populace instead of handing it all to private individual billionaire's at the expense of the population's welfare.

I actually agree with you on this one tbh. Sold down the river.
I did intentionally pick Norway.

I wonder how we match up to the other Scandinavian countries.

klaaaz

Blueshoe wrote: »

I actually agree with you on this one tbh. Sold down the river.
I did intentionally pick Norway.

I wonder how we match up to the other Scandinavian countries.

It's terrible. The Scandi's invested in their nation's future, we transferred the bankers debt to the private citizen and worse still how are we going to pay for the future explosion in pensioners?

We don't have the financial reserves to do it, about half of workers at the last count cannot afford a private pension, we don't have enough kids born every year to be future workers due to financial cripplement on the family unit, there is only immigration to solve that but right wingers oppose immigration without tackling the issue of financial debt(mortgages/childcare) on families which are right wing policies!
It ain't super rosy in Scandi countries but it's a far better rosy future there for their countries than here.

Sweetemotion

klaaaz wrote: »

It's terrible. The Scandi's invested in their nation's future, we transferred the bankers debt to the private citizen and worse still how are we going to pay for the future explosion in pensioners?

We don't have the financial reserves to do it, about half of workers at the last count cannot afford a private pension, we don't have enough kids born every year to be future workers due to financial cripplement on the family unit, there is only immigration to solve that but right wingers oppose immigration without tackling the issue of financial debt(mortgages/childcare) on families which are right wing policies!
It ain't super rosy in Scandi countries but it's a far better rosy future there for their countries than here.

Ireland has the highest number of children under 5 per capita in Europe.

Skilled immigration isn't opposed by any wing but what is opposed by conservatives the people you label "Nazis" is unskilled immigration and open borders that will only add to the financial debt.

Scandi countries aren't a socialist utopia either, they run on a capitalist economy.

Sweetemotion

B0jangles wrote: »

And is a baton a baton, and does it helps one assert control over others?

Do you also think Deandre Harris also got what was coming to him?


One of his attackers got 4 years in prison, somehow I don't think the people who attacked that old guy will get the same sentence.

Blueshoe

klaaaz wrote: »

It's terrible. The Scandi's invested in their nation's future, we transferred the bankers debt to the private citizen and worse still how are we going to pay for the future explosion in pensioners?

We don't have the financial reserves to do it, about half of workers at the last count cannot afford a private pension, we don't have enough kids born every year to be future workers due to financial cripplement on the family unit, there is only immigration to solve that but right wingers oppose immigration without tackling the issue of financial debt(mortgages/childcare) on families which are right wing policies!
It ain't super rosy in Scandi countries but it's a far better rosy future there for their countries than here.

I agree with your points. I am one of those without a private pension.
I'm also aware that immigration is necessary for a country that needs to grow economically wise and there are migrants who have the skills required in certain sectors

I'm not in favour of unskilled migration though and adding to our already massive social welfare bill. It's 20% of our total expenditure. I cannot see the point in taking in people who will only add to our "costs" .
Housing crisis that seems to be getting worse and less affordable, 700k on hospital waiting lists. We can't afford to look after our own.

But the overall problem is our tax euro are not being put towards making our lives any better. The whole system is rotten and the division between the haves and have nots is only growing larger

B0jangles

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Do you also think Deandre Harris also got what was coming to him?


One of his attackers got 4 years in prison, somehow I don't think the people who attacked that old guy will get the same sentence.

Deandre Harris was an unarmed black man who was beaten to the ground in the middle of a white nationalist demonstration by 6 armed men, several of whom were later identified as white nationalists/KKK members.



The man in the photos under discussion came ready and armed to the event, he is on video actively moving forward to attack with his baton ready. The antifa people were moving back and away from him when he moved forward to start hitting people. He should not have been hit wit a crowbar, but equally he should not have started hitting people with a baton

Sweetemotion

B0jangles wrote: »

Deandre Harris was an unarmed black man who was beaten to the ground in the middle of a white nationalist demonstration by 6 armed men, several of whom were later identified as white nationalists/KKK members.



The man in the photos under discussion came ready and armed to the event, he is on video actively moving forward to attack with his baton ready. The antifa people were moving back and away from him when he moved forward to start hitting people. He should not have been hit wit a crowbar, but equally he should not have started hitting people with a baton

Your first sentence is a lie.

B0jangles

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Your first sentence is a lie.

Excuse me?

Outlaw Pete

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Your first sentence is a lie.

Aye, far from an innocent beaten only because of the colour of his skin as the left have portrayed him.

Outlaw Pete

B0jangles wrote: »

...he is on video actively moving forward to attack with his baton ready. The antifa people were moving back and away from him when he moved forward to start hitting people.

Heather Clark was attacking those who assaulted her, and was moving forwards as those she was attacking were moving back. Why is it that the actions of those on the right, before they get attacked, are under the microscope but never Antifa?

Also, while we're back on Heather, you said:

B0jangles wrote: »

Isn't he the guy who doxxed a woman who had her neck broken by one of his patriot prayer colleagues?

I've made it clear in this post how that is untrue and so do you withdraw the suggestion that Ngo deserved what happened to him?

What I've noticed on this thread is that pretty much everyone condemns violence from the right (I certainly do - if someone instigates violence, or is violent in any way, then they should be condemned for it) but there are clearly a group of users on this thread who will make excuses for violence of those on the left, even when the person beaten isn't in any way being violent themselves. There are clear double standards at play.

I guess while only one user has the guts to post 'Bash the fash' it does seem many no doubt advocate for it all the same, if only in private, as it's very much the implication of some users posts.

B0jangles

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Heather Clark was attacking those who assaulted her, and was moving forwards as those she was attacking were moving back. Why is it that the actions of those on the right, before they get attacked, are under the microscope but never Antifa?

Also, while we're back on Heather, you said:


I've made it clear in this post how that is untrue and so do you withdraw the suggestion that Ngo deserved what happened to him?

What I've noticed on this thread is that pretty much everyone condemns violence from the right (I certainly do - if someone instigates violence, or is violent in any way, then they should be condemned for it) but there are clearly a group of users on this thread who will make excuses for violence of those on the left, even when the person beaten isn't in any way being violent themselves. There are clear double standards at play.

I guess while only one user has the guts to post 'Bash the fash' it does seem many no doubt advocate for it all the same, if only in private, as it's very much the implication of some users posts.

The man in the photo was presented as an innocent victim who was attacked by antifa activists without provocation. I provided the context that he was actively involving himself in the violence and was actively trying to attack people with a weapon at the time he received his injuries.


Andy Ngo appears to have an ongoing and extremely dubious connection to far-right extremists and white nationalists - see the list of journalists he is responsible for, the one that claims they are linked to antifa - the list that is widely circulated among rightwing extremists.


He appears to have greatly exaggerated the extent of his injuries - see the claim to have suffered a brain bleed versus his appearance on TV only hours later. See the almost $200,000 raised by the gofundme in his name. He was in hospital for a couple of hours - what exactly is the money for Pete?


When there are white supremacists, white nationalists and neo nazis literally marching in the streets in the US, I'm glad there are people willing to stand up against them. Ideally, violence should be avoided wherever possible but circumstances are not always ideal.



It's not a game of football pete, you don't just pick a side randomly and stick with it when one of those 'teams' is largely made up of white nationalists, white supremacists and neo-nazis and the other is a loose agglomeration of people opposed to white nationalism, white supremacy and neo-naziism.


You don't get to say tut tut both sides are bad when one side is literally made up of white supremacists, white nationalists and neo nazis.


They are by normal standards considered to be 'The Bad Guys'

Kimsang

B0jangles wrote: »

Andy Ngo appears to have an ongoing and extremely dubious connection to far-right extremists and white nationalists - see the list of journalists he is responsible for, the one that claims they are linked to antifa - the list that is widely circulated among rightwing extremists.

Writing for Quillette magazine(centrist magazine) is now seen as right wing trolls and white nationalists? Said list of journalists you are talking about was a study done by Eoin Lenihan, also of Quillette. These are ludicrous claims that require evidence. The joke of a publication, the independent, doesn't count.

He appears to have greatly exaggerated the extent of his injuries -

Are you a doctor? Do you know how brain bleeds work?

When there are white supremacists, white nationalists and neo nazis literally marching in the streets in the US, I'm glad there are people willing to stand up against them.

They aren't, those streets are 'owned by antifa' as they self-describe particularly in Portland. That's where all this violence and controversy is happening, in Portland , where the streets are 'run' by antifa.

You need to scratch below the surface of these things.

Kimsang

https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1146202658614550528

• This piece has been blamed for an alleged “kill list” which targets these journalists. I have asked for evidence of this list exists but no-one can provide me with evidence that it does. For all I know, the list is a fiction. -3
• What we do know is that it has been a month since we published that piece on Antifa & journalists & only one journalist has suffered an assault Only one person has been hospitalised with a brain haemorrhage. And that is our editor @MrAndyNgo.- 4
• There is now a conspiracy theory circulating Portland that attributes the authorship of our Antifa piece to @MrAndyNgo, and the piece being described as a “doxxing” which, of course, it is not. This is being used to legitimatise the assault on Andy.-5
• I want to reiterate: @MrAndyNgo did NOT write our piece scrutinising Antifa-sympathetic journalists. The piece stands alone separate to Andy’s photojournalism. @Quillette has NOT doxxed any journalists. Describing some journalists as cheerleaders for Antifa is fair comment. -End

Claire Lehmann, Quillette

Outlaw Pete

B0jangles wrote: »

The man in the photo was presented as an innocent victim who was attacked by antifa activists without provocation. I provided the context that he was actively involving himself in the violence and was actively trying to attack people with a weapon at the time he received his injuries.

I am not disagreeing with you on that, and if you have footage, post it up. If it was like you say, then yes, he is somewhat culpable and shouldn't be portrayed as an 'innocent victim'. However, I am just highlighting what I see as your double standards with regards to how you forensically go over the actions of those on the 'right' that go on to get assaulted and then deem them to be somewhat to blame if you find they have been aggressive themselves (understandably) but yet don't do the same when it's someone on the 'left', like DeAndre Harris, for example.

Andy Ngo appears to have an ongoing and extremely dubious connection to far-right extremists and white nationalists - see the list of journalists he is responsible for, the one that claims they are linked to antifa - the list that is widely circulated among rightwing extremists.

You completely swerved the point I put to you there and so I'll put it to you again: you suggested that Ngo deserved his beating because he had doxxed Heather Clark, but he had not, she was named in the media (and photographed) a year previously when she received a police citation for damaging property at Portland State University. In fact, if anything - and ironically, it's people incorrectly saying he doxxed her which may have contributed to his beating.

As for the other doxxing accusations, I have looked into them also and they are sketchy to say the very least. Either way, Ngo is not violent and I see no evidence that he has ever even been physically confrontational, much less aggressive with anyone. For that reason I find it hard to understand anyone not condemning the violent attack on him.

He appears to have greatly exaggerated the extent of his injuries - see the claim to have suffered a brain bleed versus his appearance on TV only hours later. See the almost $200,000 raised by the gofundme in his name. He was in hospital for a couple of hours - what exactly is the money for Pete?

Well, did you say the same about DeAndre Harris? As I believe it was claimed he had internal injuries and spinal injury and too was giving interviews the next day. He also raised $166,000. Did you ask back then what was that money for?

When there are white supremacists, white nationalists and neo nazis literally marching in the streets in the US, I'm glad there are people willing to stand up against them. Ideally, violence should be avoided wherever possible but circumstances are not always ideal.

What is that supposed to mean? "Ideally"? See, this is where it comes across as if you do support attacks on people you deem to be fascist and Nazis but are just not willing to go as far as outright saying it.

It's not a game of football pete, you don't just pick a side randomly and stick with it when one of those 'teams' is largely made up of white nationalists, white supremacists and neo-nazis and the other is a loose agglomeration of people opposed to white nationalism, white supremacy and neo-naziism.

But yet that's precisely what you are doing. You are picking a side and sticking with them despite video footage making it clear that they are violent thugs willing to beat and maim another just because of their views.

You don't get to say tut tut both sides are bad when one side is literally made up of white supremacists, white nationalists and neo nazis.

Yes I do, because both sides are scum in my eyes. Anyone that beats another just because they don't like the way they think is a fascist, no matter what they call themselves. I only condone violence as a means of self defense.

They are by normal standards considered to be 'The Bad Guys'

Right back atacha, but yet today we see a huge section of society, and mainstream media, protecting masked scumbags intent on violence just because they are seen to be on "their side".

Kimsang

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, did you say the same about DeAndre Harris? As I believe it was claimed he had internal injuries and spinal injury and too was giving interviews the next day. He also raised $166,000. Did you ask back then what was that money for?

According to Harris' own lawyer in trial, he attacked first. He was also involved in fighting around the front earlier that day.

Police ultimately were to blame for what happened there.

According to photojournalist Zach D. Roberts, who witnessed the assault, the violence began when Charlottesville police pushed protesters into the streets where there were counterprotesters.

Hardly a fair comparison to Ngo, given Ngo was just taking pictures.

Woodsie1

Great job the antifa clowns did shutting up Andy Ngo:pac:

Hes got an hour and half to say his piece on Joe Rogan Experience,I reckon the most exposure hes ever got.

Woodsie1

Woodsie1 wrote:

Hes got an hour and half to say his piece on Joe Rogan Experience,I reckon the most exposure hes ever got.

Very interesting listen. It's nice to hear proper condemnation of antifa and their violent tactics.