Fine

Fastidious

gmisk wrote: »

You broke the rules and were rightly fined, but instead of sucking it up and paying it you are here basically complaining about "de foreigners".
The inspector was doing his job....hence giving you a fine.

Not blaming the foreigners I have non Irish friends ffs
There is a woman who is known to sell tissues on the train, she was present on the day in question. The inspector did not even speak to her yet chose to target a loyal customer of theirs, poor form

Fastidious

gmisk wrote: »

But you werent in the right....you were travelling without a ticket/tagging in....hence the fine.

Yes we've established that about a thousand times now
Common sense is not knowing to go to the other platform to validate your leap card. If IE want to chose to not fix thia that's fine but don't be punishing people like me for their laziness

monument

Fastidious wrote: »

Just an observation. Dont even tell me were a non white person issued with a fine they wouldn't try the racism card but I can't? Can't you see the hypocrisy in that

You just got an infraction for breaking the rules in the charter and then you break the charter again by replying to moderation — maybe follow the rules and don’t get too caught up in skin colour?

— moderator

gmisk

Fastidious wrote: »

Not blaming the foreigners I have non Irish friends ffs
There is a woman who is known to sell tissues on the train, she was present on the day in question. The inspector did not even speak to her yet chose to target a loyal customer of theirs, poor form

I find it bizarre that of all people on the train I was targeted. Nice to see racial profiling still goes on in Ireland only this time perpetuated towards our very own.

In your own words, so you are saying you were targeted as you were white...


Common sense is not knowing to go to the other platform to validate your leap card.
I would think the vast vast majority of people would know to do this....and you admitted you knew you should have done this....but you didnt.

gwalk

Fastidious wrote: »

I'm ****ing fine thanks for your concern
No I think as a loyal customer of IE, I deserve an explanation as to how they could fine someone who is in the right
Also to those stating it's protecting IE's revenue I really don't think this the case. Have been getting Bus Eireann as of late and 9 times out of 10 the bus drivers just say kids go free go on

you are not in the right though and that is the whole problem, you cannot see that you are in the wrong and are playing the victim here and even trying to cite non existent racial profiling

comparable situation -

you go to a supermarket to buy something, you approach the self service scanner and it is out of order, instead of locating another scanner or a manned till you chose to leave the store with teh procut despite not paying for it.

security personel from said supermarketapproach you after you have taken these items without paying for it and you try to use the "self service till that was most convenient to me was broken so i just went ahead anyway as i am in a rish and did not leave adequate time" excuse, how do you think you would fare?

Just pay your fine and learn the lesson from it

Fastidious

[PHP][/PHP]

monument wrote: »

You just got an infraction for breaking the rules in the charter and then you break the charter again by replying to moderation — maybe follow the rules and don’t get too caught up in skin colour?

— moderator

Interesting how you apply the rules I see
Telling someone to **** off is permissable
Telling someone they're messed up in the head and need medical intervention is again ok in your book
And finally borderline stalking is fine with you

Apply the rules fairly or don't apply them at all

GBX

Fastidious wrote: »

Yes we've established that about a thousand times now
Common sense is not knowing to go to the other platform to validate your leap card. If IE want to chose to not fix thia that's fine but don't be punishing people like me for their laziness

How do you know they were not waiting on parts or a replacement validator? Or perhaps its you who was lazy not tagging on. Laziness is not solely on their part now is it?

Fastidious

gwalk wrote: »

you are not in the right though and that is the whole problem, you cannot see that you are in the wrong and are playing the victim here and even trying to cite non existent racial profiling

comparable situation -

you go to a supermarket to buy something, you approach the self service scanner and it is out of order, instead of locating another scanner or a manned till you chose to leave the store with teh procut despite not paying for it.

security personel from said supermarketapproach you after you have taken these items without paying for it and you try to use the "self service till that was most convenient to me was broken so i just went ahead anyway as i am in a rish and did not leave adequate time" excuse, how do you think you would fare?

Just pay your fine and learn the lesson from it

No this is not a comparable situation as I don't know of any till that's 300m away on very steep terrain

gwalk

Fastidious wrote: »

No this is not a comparable situation as I don't know of any till that's 300m away on very steep terrain

its you choosing not to use available alternatives, its comparable

end of the road

GBX wrote: »

How do you know they were not waiting on parts or a replacement validator? Or perhaps its you who was lazy not tagging on. Laziness is not solely on their part now is it?

it's more on them then it is him.
it's not his job to know or not as to whether they are waiting on replacement parts. that is irish rail's problem and responsibility, along with providing instructions as to what to do in a situation where all validators are not working on a platform.

gwalk wrote: »

its you choosing not to use available alternatives, its comparable

it's actually not comparable.
it's only because of this thread that the op knows there was alternatives available to him. he certainly wouldn't if he never posted here.
many would understandably assume that going to another platform to validate for the opposite direction would either not be possible or even against the rules.
it's easy to judge people on here based on our knowledge and interest of public transport and it's workings but in reality we are a small minority and there will be parts of the general public who will just not know everything. and they aren't helped by not so easy ways to access basic information on what they need, at least in terms of their use of the railway.

monument

Fastidious wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

Interesting how you apply the rules I see
Telling someone to **** off is permissable
Telling someone they're messed up in the head and need medical intervention is again ok in your book
And finally borderline stalking is fine with you

Apply the rules fairly or don't apply them at all

Banned for a day — you cannot say you were not warned.

Yes, I’m going to react harsher to someone who refuses to comply with the rules after being warned. If you want to focus on race, you’re opening yourself up to abuse and four * in a row is hardly that much abuse.

— moderator

Riva10

Fastidious wrote: »

Not blaming the foreigners I have non Irish friends ffs
There is a woman who is known to sell tissues on the train, she was present on the day in question. The inspector did not even speak to her yet chose to target a loyal customer of theirs, poor form

Now that you have a fine and a ban, maybe you should have bought some tissues. They might help in drying up those tears of frustration.

GBX

end of the road wrote: »

it's more on them then it is him.
it's not his job to know or not as to whether they are waiting on replacement parts. that is irish rail's problem and responsibility, along with providing instructions as to what to do in a situation where all validators are not working on a platform.

Maybe so. But he still travelled without a validated ticket.

Midnight_EG

Somewhat poetic that he's been banned in his own thread...for not reading the rules

gmisk

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Somewhat poetic that he's been banned in his own thread...for not reading the rules

That is really not fair, the rules need to be available right away he cant be expected to have to go and look for them!

gwalk

gmisk wrote: »

That is really not fair, the rules need to be available right away he cant be expected to have to go and look for them!

They were over the other side of the forum up steep terrain and there was no lifts

T-Maxx

Read the first page, skipped to the last.

Gobsmacked that it's still going.

Donald Trump

GBX wrote: »

There was an option to validate. You didnt use it. The onus is on you to validate the ticket even if it means going to the other side to do so. You didnt want to miss the train so took a chance so have to now pay the fine.

Ah sure if they were all broke wouldn't the kid have had the option to walk a few miles to the next train station. :rolleyes:

GBX

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah sure if they were all broke wouldn't the kid have had the option to walk a few miles to the next train station. :rolleyes:

Yeah .. thats a good suggestion. Still doesnt change the fact he had no valid tagged on ticket. :rolleyes:

monument

TheChrisD wrote: »

Unfortunately, dealing with moderation here is basically a carbon-copy of dealing with the Revenue Protection Unit.
Hopefully your experience dealing with the fine issue will help you deal with the issue that r/ireland has quite rightly turned into a meme.

As warning issued and ban already given to another poster, you are also banned for 24 hours.

Please read the charter.

— moderator

Wishbone Ash

end of the road wrote: »

...it's only because of this thread that the op knows there was alternatives available to him. he certainly wouldn't if he never posted here...

He/she mentions the alternatives in their opening post so they must have been aware.

Fastidious wrote: »

..... the 2 validators were broken and if I were to go to the other side I would have missed the train...

Standman

I'm not sure who's right, all I know is I'm outraged!

Fastidious

Fastidious wrote:

Just an observation. Dont even tell me were a non white person issued with a fine they wouldn't try the racism card but I can't? Can't you see the hypocrisy in that

Yep. Tis all the black folk that stopped you tagging on.

Fastidious wrote:

I feel threatened really

No you dont

Fastidious wrote:

Interesting how you apply the rules I see Telling someone to **** off is permissable Telling someone they're messed up in the head and need medical intervention is again ok in your book And finally borderline stalking is fine with you

In fairness, when someone is talking absolute bullsh!t, it's ok to tell them to f off

Allinall

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In fairness, when someone is talking absolute bullsh!t, it's ok to tell them to f off

Is it?
When the poster is 16?
Grow up and act your age.

OP. I’ve no doubt you will win your appeal, if what happened is as you described.

Despite what all the pedantic jobs worth’s claim here.

Trampas

Saturday I was at a station and the machine said cash only. If you’ve no cash where does that leave you? Can you pay at destination?

L1011

Trampas wrote: »

Saturday I was at a station and the machine said cash only. If you’ve no cash where does that leave you? Can you pay at destination?

Fairly certain the expectation is that you have cash

There are potential defences including the definition of a ticket office not covering machines (which existed when it was written) and the idea of intent to pay in legislation but neither is an immediate out - appeal all the way to court possibly

Trampas

L1011 wrote: »

Fairly certain the expectation is that you have cash

There are potential defences including the definition of a ticket office not covering machines (which existed when it was written) and the idea of intent to pay in legislation but neither is an immediate out - appeal all the way to court possibly

Station was all locked down. Thankfully had a few coins but I did notice when returning to station a couple I guess where trying to ring a IR to see what to do. As we turn to a more cashless society that something would need to be done if card payment not available

Stephen15

I was under the impression you could be charged with vagrancy for not carrying cash

Allinall

Allinall wrote:

Is it? When the poster is 16? Grow up and act your age.

Absolutely.

Do you think you shouldn't pull up a 16 year old for taking the p!ss?

Trampas

Trampas wrote:

Saturday I was at a station and the machine said cash only. If you’ve no cash where does that leave you? Can you pay at destination?

Beautiful example of the new generation.

If I don't have cash how am I expected to take advantage of services. I have a card.
.
****ing first world little bitches

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Beautiful example of the new generation.

If I don't have cash how am I expected to take advantage of services. I have a card.
.
****ing first world little bitches

nope wrong.
just sensible people living in a modern world where cards are becoming more the norm.
i'm not exactly jumping for joy over that either as i prefer cash but things change unfortunately.
if the transport operator can't be bothered to insure their equipment works then that is their fault.

end of the road

end of the road wrote:

nope wrong. just sensible people living in a modern world where cards are becoming more the norm. i'm not exactly jumping for joy over that either as i prefer cash but things change unfortunately. if the transport operator can't be bothered to insure their equipment works then that is their fault.

Nope. Right.

If you haven't a valid ticket, you don't travel. Very simple

devnull

Guys - can we please all be civil to each other.

I don't want to close this thread, but since the OP has been banned and we seem to be somewhat going round in circles and there's a fair few uncivil posts towards each other, I'm leaning towards closing it, so if you don't want that to happen, please be more civil.

Do not reply to this post.

- Moderator

Stephen15

I for one wouldn't think this thread would be much of a loss if it were to be closed. Absolute car crash stuff from the get go if you ask me.

magicbastarder

Stephen15 wrote: »

I was under the impression you could be charged with vagrancy for not carrying cash

the vagrancy act makes no mention of that, it's mainly about begging. and letting your kids end up in the workhouse.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1847/act/84/enacted/en/print.html

magicbastarder

L1011 wrote: »

Fairly certain the expectation is that you have cash

and therein lies the problem.

Stephen15

magicbastarder wrote: »

the vagrancy act makes no mention of that, it's mainly about begging. and letting your kids end up in the workhouse.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1847/act/84/enacted/en/print.html

I thought it was the law but perhaps I was wrong. Anyway common sense would tell to never go out without at least €20 in cash even if I had a card.

magicbastarder

it being common sense to have a bit of cash on you, does not inform any decision (or lack thereof) for irish rail whether to offer that as a payment option.

tusk

magicbastarder wrote: »

it being common sense to have a bit of cash on you, does not inform any decision (or lack thereof) for irish rail whether to offer that as a payment option.

I literally never carry cash.

hots

tusk wrote: »

I literally never carry cash.

Same, unless I'm going to the middle of nowhere and there's a risk of them not having card machines.



Working ticket machines should be the standard.

Fastidious

You can close this thread
Know it alls, appeal was successful so dunno what you were talking about

Fastidious

Fastidious wrote:

You can close this thread Know it alls, appeal was successful so dunno what you were talking about

You asked people's opinions. You got them. What is the point in asking opinions if all you want to hear are people who agree with you.

If indeed you were successful, you were very lucky as you had a very tenuous excuse.

Absolutely no need to berate people for giving an opinion you asked for.

Lackadaisical

In this day and age you should be able to pay by EMV contactless with a card or a phone. All this running around with cash and paper tickets is very 1990s.

It's not that big a Leap (if you'll pardon the pun) to EMV.

It's expensive to maintain infrastructure that has to mechanically interact with coins, notes and cards. Whole thing should be primarily contactless.

L1011

Everyone who ever posts a thread here about a fine claims the appeal was successful. I have zero reason to believe any of them really, particularly when its so quick compared to how slow Irish Rail actually work.

XPS_Zero

magicbastarder wrote: »

yes, it is too much to ask. you keep hiding behind bad design as an excuse to browbeat people using a system they're not familiar with.

and no, i should *not* need to research how a badly designed toll system works. they should be designed well. it's a weird suggestion to make that the burden should be on the consumer to interpret how what should be a light touch process works, instead of on the toll booth operators to make things as transparent as possible.
i've only ever come across this toll system once while driving in spain, so the chances of me finding out about it if i had to go search for it would probably be very low.
and i don't speak spanish so maybe am not good at interpreting tone of voice, but i did get the impression that i certainly was not the first person to make the mistake.
if the mistake keeps being made, and the operators are aware of it, perhaps they should be looking into design changes to make the system easier to use rather than blaming their customers.

btw, i didn't read all of your response. one, i don't have time, and two, i saw the last sentence and that put me off it.

I find it really interesting that you think it's too much of a chore to read a quick summary of how a system works before using it, under the really pathetic pretense that it's "research". That is an extremely lazy and juvenile attitude, I would dread to think what kind of quality contribution an outlook like that would bring to a workplace.




So you didn't bother to read my reply then?

I took the time out to consider your points and respectfully reply to them, if you are not going to do the same in reverse? Why would I read or talk to someone who won't do me the basic respect of reading my replies? If you'd bothered to read the entire thing you'd have discovered something called 'context which would have shown you the last sentence referred to all of us as people, not just you.


...and what kind of childish attitude is that? are you afraid you'll see something that will hurt your wittle feelings? are you afraid the big bad stranger might say something you disagree with? or :eek: something you might think makes sense! :eek:


Don't bother coming on here if you are not willing to do others the respect of listening to their pov, if all you want to do is write your own editorial without any response or interaction this is not the right place for you.

XPS_Zero

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Do you work for IR ?
Also, your posts are so long with so much spacing i reckon most people aren't reading them, your better off not wasting so much time on such huge posts which aren't been read.

I put space because they are long, people find it harder to read stuff where writing is clustered together. If you think this is long you must have a pretty short attention span.


Feel free to ignore my stuff if you want, but instead of using the internet as a place to project my personal bitterness at strangers I prefer to read everyone's posts, the long ones, the short ones, and everything in between. I like being exposed to alternative perspectives, it helps keep me open minded by challenging my ideas so I never give in to hubris of thinking I'm always in the right.


The fashion today is to only read back what you already agree with or feel you'll agree with, and social media has peoples attention spans so short they can't spend any time on something that's less than a sentence or two. Again that's your choice, but I prefer to take the approach that sometimes a topic is complicated and requires nuance.
If you are only capable of handling twitter sized bites of info that's your thing, I can't help you.

XPS_Zero

I was in hospital for a few days, some after effects of self inflicted damage in the past needed cleaning up, and gotta say it was lovely to come back to a thread where you contributed giving honest and sincere advice and have people say they won't even bother reading your stuff...just lovely, and that there was a big fight when I was away and ironically the kid gets banned for not reading the rules...the irony, but it's ok because all the non kids have taught him he's always in the right that if you are not f----g spoon fed everything you don't need to go searching for the info yourself.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was being polite; i saw it was quite long, scanned it, and saw things like

"....instead of also helping him avoid this kinda error you are telling him to keep the fines and make all the mistakes but it's ok cos you can sit in the corner fuming at how RIGHT YOU ARE!!!!! URGHHHHHHHH YEH IM RIGHT IM RIGHT....and i'm broke from all these fines and keep getting in trouble BUT IM RIGHT...THE WORLD IS WRONG BUT YEH IM RIGHT...YEHHHHHHHHH"

and i decided, naaah, i've better things to be doing with my time than reading rants like that. if you think that's also childish, i can live with that.

So you did or you didn't read it? because you said you read the last bit, now you are seeing bits in between? So you did or you did not read it? which is it? Because it seems you managed to read just enough of the post to misunderstand it, which makes me wonder if you are doing the exact same thing with stuff like the ticketing system, and perhaps this may be your problem? REading dribs and drabs of information but never looking at it properly, an attitude, dare I say, that' some might consider juvenile and lazy?


The point I made there is quite valid, instead of teaching the kid a lesson to be more careful in the future, some are advocating he double down and adopt an attitude that will lead to even further mistakes like this, which is bad advice.

tipptom wrote: »

Why in gods name should somebody, as is been suggested by posters on here check their phone before leaving for a train to see if their machines are working or leave other things they have to do in their life to leave early to travel all over a railway station before their train looking for a machine that hasn't broke down?

The ticket has been bought and paid for and in their bank acc for a service that they want to fine you for because of THEIR incompetence to not supply an easily rectified fast alternative when their CUSTOMER has being inconvenienced.

There should be someone to fine IR for this when they try and extort their customers in this way and they would soon rectify their shortcomings.

I know he'll never see this because he's apparently not reading posts that are "long" or that he disagrees with because it might hurt his little head, but this folks, is what we call a "strawman" argument. When you can't argue back against an opponent because your argument is based on emotions rather than logic, you re-invent his position turning it into a caricature of his actual views. THen you mock it.
"IT'S RESEARCH"
"YOU ARE SAYING HE SHOULD CHECK THE INTERNET FOR OUTAGES!"
"LEAVE THEIR WHOLE LIFE FOR THE TRAIN!"



Nobody suggested that, we suggested leaving 5 minutes earlier to he'd have extra spillover time, basic common sense adult behavior.

Always Tired wrote: »

OP just appeal it and state your case as you did in the first post.

Don't pay any heed to people saying you should have validated on a different platform. Plenty of adults wouldn't have been able to figure that out tbh, especially if theyre not familiar with the way Irish Rail and Ireland in general operate (ie: badly) a LOT of posters on this site have this strange OTT authoritarian fascist streak where they condemn anyone who asks for advice, telling them how wrong they were and why didnt they do this or that it's unreal. They are bitter people who are basically lumping you in with all the junkies who fare dodge.

No judge is going to uphold a fine on a child. Especially during a free ride period, and especially with validators not working. Don't be afraid to go through this process. You will win the appeal, I'd put my house on it.

I would imagine it would be extremely bad press for Irish Rail also if this were to be published anywhere.

I had something similar happen to me on the Luas, the machine wasnt working to buy tickets, I jabbed at it like Floyd Mayweather for a full two minutes, no joy. Of course two stops later a ticket inspector got on. when I explained it to him he said I he had to give me a ticket and that i could appeal it. Then he said should have got off at the next stop, bought a ticket there and got on the next train! I told him that was ridiculous, I needed to get into town to catch another bus. I gave him a fake name and address, told him I had no ID on me and tossed the ticket on the floor as soon as he was gone.

If you're ever accosted by any ticket inspector for an unjust reason don't give them your name and just walk away they have no power to detain you or touch you whatsoever. They will try and stop you and say they are calling the guards but just walk off, unless you are very unlucky it will usually be a long time before a guard would get there if they even bother their hole which they probably won't.

I'm of the view that they are quite happy to let machines be broken and try to collect fines off people who are intimidated by them. The real scumbags who fare dodge they don't want to deal with so they go after easier targets for fines.

I can't believe they wouldn't just give you a warning to a 16 yr old kid who is meant to be going free anyway.

Since he was not fare dodging they might let it go.



But our advice to him is not just in this case, if you leave yourself that extra 5 minutes, then during the non free periods you'll have time to validate on the other platform. If he adopts the attitude of "if the one on my platforms not working im in the clear" and it's a normal fare period he might not be so lucky. If you leave yourself extra time you don't have to bother at all with appeals and steaming about how right you are, it saves you more hassle in the long run.

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its an offence to give a fake name and there is a power to detain, rarely used but its there.

Luas bye laws are very clear, if the machines are broken (and there are always multiple at each stop) you cannot travel.

No no no...they're always right, "don't worry judge the internet user told me the ticket inspector had no power, and like I didn't bother reading the rules cos that's loike unreasonable RESEARCH n stuff LOLZ...so were cool then yeh? no fine?"


Tha'ts how the real world works isn't it lads?

gwalk wrote: »

honestly you should get some help for that vicitm complex you seem to have developed.

its not healthy and you really wont get far in life if you think the world owes you a living

Judging by how the people on this thread are reacting he's not alone is he? We have half these keyboard warriors telling him he's right and the other half saying why bother even reading the responses of people who disagree?

Deleted User wrote: »

You asked people's opinions. You got them. What is the point in asking opinions if all you want to hear are people who agree with you.

Well that seems to be what people want. Short buzzy posts that's agree with their preexisting beliefs, these people have votes, and can sign contracts...it's worrying.

Fastidious wrote: »

Laoisgem, the parents of fastidious couldn't be any less helpful. Although they agree with me they have refused to pay the fine and I will not give my hard earned money to these *****.
I have since emailed Irish Rail and have yet to receive a response. To make it as awkward as possible for them I have requested that all future correspondances be in Irish and that should they wish to pursue me I will threaten them with my non existent solicitor for defamation. I find it bizarre that of all people on the train I was targeted. Nice to see racial profiling still goes on in Ireland only this time perpetuated towards our very own.

I get it the ticket inspector was doing his job. But you'd want to be a sad **** to fine me of all the drunks and Spaniards that are known to evade fares all the time.

I would seriously doubt a confrontational attitude would be successful and seems to me more likley something a person would say to save face but here is what I would advise you, if you still have not resolved it, and others in the same situation:


I'm giving you advice mate cos I've been in the situation of getting a fine when I wasn't trying to evade the fare, just like you, you can be childish like the others and ignore me if you want but it's honest well meaning advice and I'd like to see you beat this because you intended no ill.



1. Don't explain your strategy here man, the people who work in the RPU offices read these boards so don't help them hang you.


2. Consider human nature. You always get more flys with honey than vinegar. Don't throw sand in their eyes by being snotty (re the Irish and stuff). Human nature is when someone is being cunt1y with you you wanna shove their face in the sh1t to make them pay for it. The smart play is to be conciliatory. Say you were unaware that the free kids thing is paid for by the NTA based on tags, and you honestly didn't know you could tag on the other side. Emphasize that your intent was NOT to dodge the fare, and you didn't dodge one. That you have done wrong only in a technical sense and are prepared to explain that to a judge that based on "natural justice" and fairness you should not be fined.
Tell them if they let this go you will be more careful in future. Apologize for any stropyness in previous correspondence say that you "allowed my anger over the unfairness of being fined when I did not evade any fare to take over".

Say that you surely wanna send out the message that more people should use this scheme and use public transport and if they think they will be hit with major fines over "small technicalities " it will deter people from traveling and negate the point of the scheme.
You say "yes I made a mistake but it's not a mistake deserving of the same kind of fine as someone who gets on the train without buying a ticket at all".



There is a good chance that if you take that tac they will let it drop. Everyone is snotty and stroppy with them, and that kinda approch won't do well in front of a judge. No judge is gonna side with someone who comes off as angry and entitled your attitude needs to be yeh I made a mistake but it's not a mistake that justifies a fine.



You need to consider human nature. You get back the vibe you put out there. If you put out stroppy and angry that's the tone your set at with them.

Good luck with the appeal.

XPS_Zero

L1011 wrote: »

Everyone who ever posts a thread here about a fine claims the appeal was successful. I have zero reason to believe any of them really, particularly when its so quick compared to how slow Irish Rail actually work.

He can prove us all wrong by scanning in the letter showing the successful appeal with the name/address blacked out and posting it.


If that's the case it would not be long before he was fined again though, because it would only tell him that if a machines broken you don't have to buy a ticket or tag on, and he'll end up with another €100 fine down the road.
I don't think the people who gave advice here telling him to ignore them and run away from them and get snotty with them did him favors in either scenario, if he lost the appeal you helped f--k him over, if he won it you made him think being stroppy with a chip on your shoulder is the way to win.

Fastidious

L1011 wrote: »

Everyone who ever posts a thread here about a fine claims the appeal was successful. I have zero reason to believe any of them really, particularly when its so quick compared to how slow Irish Rail actually work.

Believe me or don't idgaf
I think it just goes to show how out of touch with reality the majority of posters on here are

XPS_Zero

Fastidious wrote: »

Believe me or don't idgaf
I think it just goes to show how out of touch with reality the majority of posters on here are

Speaking for myself mate, I was honestly trying to help you. You asked for help and I'm giving it to you so what say you take it in the same spirit with which it's being offered instead of responding to me with abuse? I've taken enough of it in my life, probably more than you can imagine.


Most of us have lived longer and seen more reality, hence our advice.
It's easy to just tell someone exactly what they want to hear. There is a reason you never see the following encounter:


GARDA CAR PULLS GUY OVER:

COP: "license"
DRIVER: "ok...what did you stop me for?"
COP: "you were 10km/h over the speed limit"
DRIVER: "oh ffsake! don't you have real criminal to go arrest??? wtf is wrong with you wasting your time on sh1t like this! go look for some real crime!"
COP: (turns red with embarrassment) "oh ...oh my God..you're right I'm so sorry (hands back license) I should be arresting drug dealers even though I'm in the traffic unit...sh1t I feel terrible sir, will you accept my most humble apologies?"
DRIVER: (smug nod) "that's better" (drives off)
Cop sinks to the ground in floods of tears.


You get more fly's with honey. It's human nature. You don't win with threats and abuse unless you have some power over the recipient and even then you are building up resentment and they'll be waiting for a chance to f--k you big time so it's not a great management/leadership strategy either.


We like to think were all special unique little snowflakes, and in some ways we are, but in most areas everyone runs into very similar barriers in life and makes very similar mistakes, so it pays to listen to people who have already been in your kinda situation before.



The most important lesson in life I've learned so far is to think with your brain not your emotions, be able to park your ego and think with a clear head. Most people think and act emotionally, most of the big mistakes people make in life are when they charge off in some emotional state without thinking things through.

You also gotta think about how things look from the other guys perspective, you wanna persuade someone to come around to your POV you do it by understanding theirs first, and making a positive case for your own perspective taking theirs into account, use their values and attitudes as a framework for your own argument (in this case 'your thing is busting fare dodgers, I get that, but I'm not a fare dodger so cut me some slack') you don't persuade them by hurling abuse at them and being difficult.
....and don't listen to the numbnuts who think a smart approach is to just ignore people you disagree with, you don't advance your own intelligence through ignorance, you do it with more knowledge, more perspectives, and constantly testing your own POV and opinions against alternatives.

The natural instinct when angered or hurt is to stew in your own emotions and feel wronged, you gotta resist that and think.