Off work sick, management harrassing with calls

bs2014

I went off work sick just over 2 weeks. My doctor gave me a sick note for a month stating 'medical reasons'. My employers do pay my salary less the government illness benefit. As I worked partially in 2017 I don't actually know yet will I get the gov illness benefit. Company policy is that they require weekly certs so even though I've submitted one for a month, I still need to get weekly ones and send in. Every week my employer is ringing me and todays call I found somewhat harassing. As I was saying little he was having to do the talking and I felt he kept asking me when I was going to the doctor next and how many times I'd been in an effort to try trip me up. He then said he doesn't think I am getting anywhere with my own GP and I would be better seeing the company GP. I said I am happy with how I am progressing. The only thing I think they are worried about is whether or not I will be off longer than a month which I don't know until I return to the doctor next week but I do know weekly calls are not helping and I found the manner very much intimidating me to hurry back to work. I don't think I should have to go to their company GP after 2-3 weeks of being off work, yes perhaps if I was off 3 months and could not provide a return date. Has anyone any thoughts on this?

Stheno

Is this the first bout of sick leave you have had with this company?

And why are they phoning you and how often?

antix80

You're overthinking it. A call once a week isn't outrageous.

Give him some certainty. If your gp is agreeable, get signed off for longer. Maybe the rest of the month. You can continue furnishing HR with weekly certs in the meantime as per company policy.

You can also call your manager for a 5 min checkin once a week, that way he'll have no reason to call you. Aside from that, just ignore his calls rather than feeling pressurised to answer them straight away. I'd be tempted to return them in the evening or nearing "home time" when he doesnt want to be contacted.

If he asks you to attend the company doctor there's no reason for you to refuse. It's not your decision to decide the timefrane and they're paying you sick leave after all. A month's salary for an hours work isn't shabby.

Watch out for a poor me/victim mentality. It won't do you any good. If you're not attending a counsellor I'd strongly suggest you engage with one so you can handle situations like this.

bs2014

This is the first bout of sickness. I originally submitted 1 note stating a month. Now I submit weekly ones. So they know I am at least off for a month. I think they are ringing only just to see when I will back. I think sending you to a company doctor after 3 weeks is very extreme. He has phoned me once a week but the calls have been very much focused on trying to gauge when I'm back. I mean they never returned my email or text about looking the company's revenue number for illness benefit form nor never asked had I got my illness benefit through from revenue. Obviously I understand they need to manage resources etc but what part of the original letter stating a month off sick do they not understand. I don't mind a weekly call and I would ring them no issues but they always seem to beat me to it.

Stheno

bs2014 wrote: »

This is the first bout of sickness. I originally submitted 1 note stating a month. Now I submit weekly ones. So they know I am at least off for a month. I think they are ringing only just to see when I will back. I think sending you to a company doctor after 3 weeks is very extreme. He has phoned me once a week but the calls have been very much focused on trying to gauge when I'm back. I mean they never returned my email or text about looking the company's revenue number for illness benefit form nor never asked had I got my illness benefit through from revenue. Obviously I understand they need to manage resources etc but what part of the original letter stating a month off sick do they not understand. I don't mind a weekly call and I would ring them no issues but they always seem to beat me to it.

So are you off two or three weeks? They can ask you to see the company doctor at any time tbh

bs2014

Stheno wrote: »

So are you off two or three weeks? They can ask you to see the company doctor at any time tbh

I am off from Monday 17th June. I would have thought they would only refer to company doctor after a number of months. I mean going to the company doctor and having my illness and treatment etc divulged back to my workplace is of no benefit to me.

Pat201

While i am sure you are genuinely ill, i cannot understand your objection to seeing a company doctor. its hardly inconceivable to get a sick cert backed up by there doctor ? Sounds like you are avoiding this at all costs

Recliner

bs2014 wrote: »

I am off from Monday 17th June. I would have thought they would only refer to company doctor after a number of months. I mean going to the company doctor and having my illness and treatment etc divulged back to my workplace is of no benefit to me.

I assume your company has an attendance policy. Could you ask one of your colleagues to look it up for you to see if it's being followed?
TBH, none of what you've said sounds particularly extreme from the employers point of view, although it doesn't seem right from yours. And that's the crux of it, your concern is making sure you get well, as it should be. Your employers concern is making sure their staff are at work.
Where I work, it wouldn't be unusual to be called to see the company doctor after 2/3 weeks.
I think, especially if you know you are going to be out for a longer period, go see your Occ Health dept., it might actually be of benefit to you.
Also the company doctor won't be divulging back specifics back to your employer.

bs2014

bs2014 wrote: »

I mean going to the company doctor and having my illness and treatment etc divulged back to my workplace is of no benefit to me.

its for their benefit and likely to be covered by your terms and conditions

The Bishop Basher

In my experience it would be unusual to attend a company doctor for an illness with a duration less then a month or 2.

We only really involve them in long term absence.

It’s not ok that you feel harassed though and I don’t think weekly calls are necessary especially when you’ve explained the situation and provided certs but the reality is there’s very little you can do about any of it but to comply.

Pat201

Has the situation been explained? He does not want company knowing about his illness as its no benefit to him. Sounds like comapny are in dark too so might explain the calls and asking for their doctor to see the person

The Bishop Basher

Pat201 wrote: »

Has the situation been explained? He does not want company knowing about his illness as its no benefit to him. Sounds like comapny are in dark too so might explain the calls and asking for their doctor to see the person

Fair enough. That would explain it alright.

Recliner

bs2014 wrote: »

This is the first bout of sickness. I originally submitted 1 note stating a month. Now I submit weekly ones. So they know I am at least off for a month. I think they are ringing only just to see when I will back. I think sending you to a company doctor after 3 weeks is very extreme. He has phoned me once a week but the calls have been very much focused on trying to gauge when I'm back. I mean they never returned my email or text about looking the company's revenue number for illness benefit form nor never asked had I got my illness benefit through from revenue. Obviously I understand they need to manage resources etc but what part of the original letter stating a month off sick do they not understand. I don't mind a weekly call and I would ring them no issues but they always seem to beat me to it.

Your employers revenue number should be on a pay slip or P60.
Also whether you got your benefit through isn't really their concern.
If their policy states to submit weekly certs, then a cert for a month isn't following that procedure.

Masala

I cant see why you cant keep them informed...... they need ti make decisions if you going to be out for longer.

They might need to get in cover / temp / etc. If they covering you on Overtime...it might be a problem especially of some people are working over the Working Time Act and thats another problem they dont need. You are getting paid which is decent by them. Lots of companies only give a set number of days (10 in my case).

LuasSimon

A lot of companies these days are so short of staff due to keeping costs down and making even more money for owners that management are often putting unfair pressure on staff who are ill to return to work .
Some management can be quite nasty, I hope it all stays fine for them .

Scraggs

Find out what the company's sick policy is, where I work a weekly phone call is part of the process and is no more than a box ticking exercise. Why do you not want to attend the company doctor?

bs2014

My issue with attending the company doctor is I feel this is only to fulfill their own interest. I am not going to be attending both my own and the companies doctors receiving 2 separate treatments. I feel the tone of voice on the phonecalls and the suggestion of sending me to company doctor so soon to be intimidating and of no benefit to me. In fact, they have so many people off sick in our dept atm that 2 temp staff were brought in before I left so resources covering my work is no issue, also I soon a new position advertised for our team that I had not even been told about (I am on a rolling temporary contract so the certainty of a permanent contract would be nice)

Stheno

bs2014 wrote: »

My issue with attending the company doctor is I feel this is only to fulfill their own interest. I am not going to be attending both my own and the companies doctors receiving 2 separate treatments. I feel the tone of voice on the phonecalls and the suggestion of sending me to company doctor so soon to be intimidating and of no benefit to me. In fact, they have so many people off sick in our dept atm that 2 temp staff were brought in before I left so resources covering my work is no issue, also I soon a new position advertised for our team that I had not even been told about (I am on a rolling temporary contract so the certainty of a permanent contract would be nice)

The usual reason for people attending a company doctor is to validate that the person is actually sick essentially to make sure that your go is certifying you correctly.

The company doctor will not be treating you. You will be asked to consent to details of your illness being shared with the company and can say no.

They will then have generic questions to be completed by the doctor for their records, such as is the illness likely to impact your ability to work without disclosing specifics

Is this your first job?

drunkmonkey

Off heading up to 3 weeks with no explanation to your employer, refusing to get a second opinion from the company doctor. All sounds like somebody taking the preverbial. I know where I'd be trying to roll you and it's not into another contract.
You can be let go while on sick leave, I'd play ball in your position. If your not trying to hide something from your employer it shouldn't be an issue going to their nominated doctor.

Dial Hard

bs2014 wrote:

(I am on a rolling temporary contract so the certainty of a permanent contract would be nice)

It's probably safe to say you've sent that particular ship sailing off into the sunset.

Recliner

bs2014 wrote: »

My issue with attending the company doctor is I feel this is only to fulfill their own interest. I am not going to be attending both my own and the companies doctors receiving 2 separate treatments. I feel the tone of voice on the phonecalls and the suggestion of sending me to company doctor so soon to be intimidating and of no benefit to me. In fact, they have so many people off sick in our dept atm that 2 temp staff were brought in before I left so resources covering my work is no issue, also I soon a new position advertised for our team that I had not even been told about (I am on a rolling temporary contract so the certainty of a permanent contract would be nice)

The tone of this post isn't great to be honest.
If it's company policy to attend a company GP when instructed, then yes, you will do it or risk being in breach of that policy. That's just the way it is. It's not a case of fulfilling their own interests, it's them ensuring that they are compliant with their own procedures. If an employee at any stage makes a complaint, they need to show that they have followed the policy. As it stands, going on the information you've given, they are doing what they're supposed to do and you're not.

STB.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Off heading up to 3 weeks with no explanation to your employer, refusing to get a second opinion from the company doctor. All sounds like somebody taking the preverbial. I know where I'd be trying to roll you and it's not into another contract.
You can be let go while on sick leave, I'd play ball in your position. If your not trying to hide something from your employer it shouldn't be an issue going to their nominated doctor.

And I know where you'd be rolling. Almost certainly the WRC or the courts. You are a liability.

The employer requires no such information. For a start GDPR stipulates that general practice of requiring all employees to specifically disclose their condition or illness to account for their sick absences from work does give rise to serious concerns from a data protection perspective as it does not adequately protect the sensitive personal data of those employees who may have an illness/condition which they consider private or sensitive.”

bs2014 wrote: »

He then said he doesn't think I am getting anywhere with my own GP and I would be better seeing the company GP.

This is an astonishing statement. What would qualify someone to challenge a medical professional ? Is this the HR Dept of your comany or your manager that is calling you ? Having told them when you will return, there should be no need for weekly phone calls, especially ones questioning medical opinion.


Ask for a copy of the sick leave policy to be posted to you and see if any of their contact etc matches up.

Strumms

When the call comes,

1) record it, if the call comes at a time that is inconvenient to achieve this explain that you cannot take the call and you will call back at say 2pm, you will be ready to record.

2) do NOT enter into conversation, reply to the questions with short and to the point answers... no reason to elaborate or dramatize things.

Q : are you feeling better ?
A : I am feeling a little better thanks but my health is a work in progress.

Q : Can you come back to work ASAP ?
A : I am in regular contact with my doctor and he will advise when, I’ll keep you updated.

Q : Can you come in for a meeting ?
A : I have been advised to refrain from work duties including meetings for the foreseeable but I am contactable here on this number and email.

irishgrover

1. It's not at all unusual for a company policy to require weekly sick certs
2. It's not unusual to refer to a company doctor after a period of only a couple of weeks
3. It's your managers job to ensure that you follow company policy.
4. It's also your responsibility to follow company policy. If your manager decided to leave you alone and you did not provide weekly certs because you "did not know", then that in and off itself could land you in trouble.
5. Company doctors are just regular doctors that get paid by the company. They still have ethical and legal responsibilities to the patient, not the company.

For what it is worth: I manage a large team and have multiple manager reporting to me. It is their job to ensure that company policy is followed. I have no interest whatsoever (nor do they) in ever second guessing professional medical opinion. If a doctor says a member of my team is unfit for work, I never second guess it - what is the point?
I have referred multiple people to the company doctor, based on company policy. Most 1st time visitors are somewhat apprehensive about the visit. I would sit down with them, or speak to them and explain that the is not to catch out the employee, it is to ensure that we understand what if any obligations we have to the employee in terms of care, or in terms of modified situation on return to work. In addition it is to assess if the employee is fit to work or not.
Every single individual that I have referred to the company doctor have been glad they have gone. Some have asked for repeat visits.
In all that time I have never spoken to the company doctor. I would not even recognise him if he was standing in front of me.

Managers of bigger teams deal with illness and life changing events a lot. In the last number of years I have had team members with all sorts of minor and major illnesses, including unfortunately life ending ones.

bs2014

STB and Strumms: thanks for your constructive and supportive comments. It was my line manager not HR. Truthfully I am reluctant to contact HR looking for a copy of sick policy for fear of it creating unnecessary wind. I have no faith in HR and tarnish them all with the 1 brush. As I say if they weren't paying my salary they would be in no rush to send me to a company GP. I kept it quiet on the phone today (often I tend to talk too much) but today I didn't which is what actually made him say more. Fortunately I did record the call as I downloaded a useful app a few months ago for a different non work issue and never uninstalled it

Shefwedfan

bs2014 wrote: »

STB and Strumms: thanks for your constructive and supportive comments. It was my line manager not HR. Truthfully I am reluctant to contact HR looking for a copy of sick policy for fear of it creating unnecessary wind. I have no faith in HR and tarnish them all with the 1 brush. As I say if they weren't paying my salary they would be in no rush to send me to a company GP. I kept it quiet on the phone today (often I tend to talk too much) but today I didn't which is what actually made him say more. Fortunately I did record the call as I downloaded a useful app a few months ago for a different non work issue and never uninstalled it

Funny how you picked out the two posters

Personally if I did have to take long term illness then going to company doctor if requested would be no issue. He/she can’t tell the company anything. Larger companies have one and this is normally at expense of the company. This is normally a standard GP who gets a few quid for coming in.No matter what happens or is discussed he/she can’t say back to company.

This is probably a request for a second opinion, normally sent down from higher management to first line managers. Nothing strange about it and asi said I would have no issue personally attending the doctor if request, I’m not sure why you have an issue?

Shefwedfan

bs2014 wrote: »

STB and Strumms: thanks for your constructive and supportive comments. It was my line manager not HR. Truthfully I am reluctant to contact HR looking for a copy of sick policy for fear of it creating unnecessary wind. I have no faith in HR and tarnish them all with the 1 brush. As I say if they weren't paying my salary they would be in no rush to send me to a company GP. I kept it quiet on the phone today (often I tend to talk too much) but today I didn't which is what actually made him say more. Fortunately I did record the call as I downloaded a useful app a few months ago for a different non work issue and never uninstalled it

Did you tell him you recorded the call? If not that’s illegal...also doesn’t it beep on other side or something to say call is recorded?

Stheno

bs2014 wrote: »

STB and Strumms: thanks for your constructive and supportive comments. It was my line manager not HR. Truthfully I am reluctant to contact HR looking for a copy of sick policy for fear of it creating unnecessary wind. I have no faith in HR and tarnish them all with the 1 brush. As I say if they weren't paying my salary they would be in no rush to send me to a company GP. I kept it quiet on the phone today (often I tend to talk too much) but today I didn't which is what actually made him say more. Fortunately I did record the call as I downloaded a useful app a few months ago for a different non work issue and never uninstalled it

Ok there are valid reasons for your company to ask you to go to the company doctor which comply with privacy issues.

irishgrover

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did you tell him you recorded the call? If not that’s illegal...also doesn’t it beep on other side or something to say call is recorded?

generally speaking, not illegal in this country. All that is needed is single party consent - and obviously in this case the single party is the OP

GerardKeating

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did you tell him you recorded the call? If not that’s illegal...also doesn’t it beep on other side or something to say call is recorded?

Actually not illegal, as long as one party knows it's being recorded

martingriff

bs2014 wrote: »

My issue with attending the company doctor is I feel this is only to fulfill their own interest. I am not going to be attending both my own and the companies doctors receiving 2 separate treatments. I feel the tone of voice on the phonecalls and the suggestion of sending me to company doctor so soon to be intimidating and of no benefit to me. In fact, they have so many people off sick in our dept atm that 2 temp staff were brought in before I left so resources covering my work is no issue, also I soon a new position advertised for our team that I had not even been told about (I am on a rolling temporary contract so the certainty of a permanent contract would be nice)

What do you mean 2 treatments. The visit is for the doctor to see you and verify as per there procedures which you signed to. He/she is a doctor and will not be able to share the specifics of your ilness if you tell him/her. There will be no second treatment