Off work sick, management harrassing with calls

Shefwedfan

GerardKeating wrote: »

Actually not illegal, as long as one party knows it's being recorded

That’s a bit odd, still doesn’t make it right and doesn’t the phone beep to allow the other person know it’s recorded? It used to?

Gael23

The company doctor won’t tell the company anything about your illness. All they will do is form an opinion as to you being fit for work or not.

Shefwedfan

Plus the work doctor is second opinion

I know I had an issue before, not off work or anything. My GP just said to deal with it, went to work GP and he knew a guy who resolved and everything covered under health insurance....gave me referral and all so sorted

With anything medical it’s always worth getting a second pair of eyes to look at it

End of day it’s your health.

pyramuid man

From what I can see, the OP has already made up their mind about not going to the company doctor and it doesnt matter what anyone says, they are not going to go.

If it was a choice of going to a doctor who will ensure that the company you work for is meeting their obligations and cannot provide any information to the employer without the OP's consent or Being brought in for a disciplinary for failing to follow company policy, I know which option I would be taking.

OP, 1 call a week is not harassment and a request for you to attend a company doctor for being absent for an unspecified illness is not unreasonable. But whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck.

On another note, it is not up to your employer to let you know about positions in work that become available while you are excused from work duties. If it was a stress related illness, encouraging you to apply for another position could be seen as putting you under undue pressure to take or remain in a position that may be detrimental to your health or mental health. I'm sure your employer has a website which they advertise any positions that become available. It may be worth your while looking at this.

dreamers75

Company has a duty of care to an employee, they will follow their sick leave policy to the letter. We would check in weekly with staff off sick for physical or mental "medical reasons". Non issue for us as we clearly state this and the reason for the call is not for a cert we(in your case) already have.

Company Drs are usually Occupational so its if you are fit to work they will say are/are not.

Are your job and the medical reasons linked?

the14thwarrior

Based on your statements this is my feedback:
This is the first bout of sickness. I originally submitted 1 note stating a month. Now I submit weekly ones. So they know I am at least off for a month. I think they are ringing only just to see when I will back. -

They are ringing you because that is their policy to ring employees on a weekly basis whatever you think their reasons are it doesn't matter.

I think sending you to a company doctor after 3 weeks is very extreme. He has phoned me once a week but the calls have been very much focused on trying to gauge when I'm back.

See above

I mean they never returned my email or text about looking the company's revenue number for illness benefit form nor never asked had I got my illness benefit through from revenue.

I'm not sure they are doing this on purpose. But perhaps they are trying to make life a bit difficult for you. but in fairness, employers generally don't go around asking if someone has or has not got illness benefit etc.

Obviously I understand they need to manage resources etc but what part of the original letter stating a month off sick do they not understand.

What part of it is their policy do you not understand?

I don't mind a weekly call and I would ring them no issues but they always seem to beat me to it

To be honest, you don't seem to want to engage with them in a meaningful, professional manner.

Truthfully I am reluctant to contact HR looking for a copy of sick policy for fear of it creating unnecessary wind. I have no faith in HR and tarnish them all with the 1 brush.

after three weeks if this is your attitude, I'd be calling you every week as you seem a bit too angry and a bit too willing to tarnish everybody with the same brush despite you not agreeing to your company's policy

As I say if they weren't paying my salary they would be in no rush to send me to a company GP.

but they are paying your salary

I kept it quiet on the phone today (often I tend to talk too much) but today I didn't which is what actually made him say more
probably the lack of useful information and your reluctence to play ball

I feel the tone of voice on the phonecalls and the suggestion of sending me to company doctor so soon to be intimidating and of no benefit to me.

Not buying it, you are not so intimated that you purposely taped the call, which is think is hard to do quickly in the midst of a phone all

My issue with attending the company doctor is I feel this is only to fulfill their own interest
Yes, it is in their own interest. It would be nice to say they are only concerned about your health, but the reality is it is to fulfill their own interest. And that is not a bad thing. Think of it this way. If you choose not to disclose what is wrong with you, and that is, by the way, perfectly ok, then they have a right to cover their own arses. if you are stressed in work, then come back and expect them to do right by you, they can't because they don't know whats wrong. If you have a mental health issue, then the company doctor might need to know about this if for example you could end up having more mental health issues because of your job etc. If you have a bad back and don't want to tell them, and then go back to work and hurt yourself.... who is to blame? for example look at the HSE policy, if someone doesn't want their line manager to know what is wrong with them, the employee HAS to call OCC. health and disclose in confidence what is wrong with them. It is up to the doctor then to decide if a return to work is a good idea. or a bad idea. or if the manager or whatever needs to put measures in place to promote a successful return to work,

I think your sense of entitlement to privacy on what is wrong with you is fine, but in the real world, employers have a right to protect themselves, their other employees and by the way YOU. and some companies do it better than others

To be perfectly honest, you sound like a bit of a nightmare to deal with; you seem to have no awareness of YOUR expectations with regard to attendance at work, and you seem to be taking it a bit too personally.

Shefwedfan

If it’s a line manager and not HR then he/she is probably just doing their job, getting hostile with them is pointless as it’s not their decision in the long run

If the company had an issue then it would be passed up the chain or transferred to HR, simple as that

All these procedures are laid out in contract you would have signed

seannash

As with most discussions on this sort of topic you have two camps.
People who seem to think the company are being reasonable and the OP is over reacting/ trying to hide something and people who think the company are evil and you should do absolutely nothing to assist them, you're sick, signed off or whatever so they can fcuk off.

And what tends to happen is you gravitate to what you want to hear.
As an impartial observer it's clear that most people think the company is being reasonable and you have no reason to not see the company GP. But you have chosen to take the advice of the minority.

Be honest with yourself, are you being a little bit difficult when you don't need to be? And to what end.
Employees who have good working relationships with their managers wouldn't bat an eyelid to this sort of call or request no matter if they were slightly in the wrong for contacting you (they are not by the way)

Shefwedfan

seannash wrote: »

As with most discussions on this sort of topic you have two camps.
People who seem to think the company are being reasonable and the OP is over reacting/ trying to hide something and people who think the company are evil and you should do absolutely nothing to assist them, you're sick, signed off or whatever so they can fcuk off.

And what tends to happen is you gravitate to what you want to hear.
As an impartial observer it's clear that most people think the company is being reasonable and you have no reason to not see the company GP. But you have chosen to take the advice of the minority.

Be honest with yourself, are you being a little bit difficult when you don't need to be? And to what end.
Employees who have good working relationships with their managers wouldn't bat an eyelid to this sort of call or request no matter if they were slightly in the wrong for contacting you (they are not by the way)

As I posted it was strange to pick out two specific posters, both posters aggressive towards the company.....

At the end of the day the first line manager is doing a job......like you and me.....

the14thwarrior

Based on the information given, nothing strange or odd.
but I still think there is more to this than the OP is telling.

harr

OP you might need the company doctor to sign off on you returning to work , if you play hardball now they could do the same when the time comes to return to work.
Any work Doctor I have seen just ask a few questions and how you are feeling and when you hope to return to work. Also I haven’t come across any company who takes monthly certs for a short term absence it’s always a weekly cert.

bs2014

Without getting into tit for tat arguing
-I haven't refused to go to company doctor (they have only suggested they might send me). I just think it is unreasonable at such an early stage of being off sick.
-I would go to a company doctor. However my contract says the company doctor will provide the company with details of illness and files etc. This is I do not like.
-I don't think I am being unreasonable. I am providing them weekly certs even though they know I am off for a month from my initial cert. I am answering any calls I receive and questions asked.

bs2014

bs2014 wrote: »

Without getting into tit for tat arguing
-I haven't refused to go to company doctor (they have only suggested they might send me). I just think it is unreasonable at such an early stage of being off sick.
-I would go to a company doctor. However my contract says the company doctor will provide the company with details of illness and files etc. This is I do not like.
-I don't think I am being unreasonable. I am providing them weekly certs even though they know I am off for a month from my initial cert. I am answering any calls I receive and questions asked.

do you treat other aspects of company policy as optional or otherwise based on what you think?

the14thwarrior

harr wrote: »

OP you might need the company doctor to sign off on you returning to work , if you play hardball now they could do the same when the time comes to return to work.
Any work Doctor I have seen just ask a few questions and how you are feeling and when you hope to return to work. Also I haven’t come across any company who takes monthly certs for a short term absence it’s always a weekly cert.

The HSE will accept monthly certs, but would almost certainly follow up with an Occupational health doctor if you are out more than one or two months. You don't need to send in weekly certs. sometimes it might be at the discretion of the manager, if they know what the problem is, but usually a referral to Occ. health is warranted.

martingriff

bs2014 wrote: »

Without getting into tit for tat arguing
-I haven't refused to go to company doctor (they have only suggested they might send me). I just think it is unreasonable at such an early stage of being off sick.
-I would go to a company doctor. However my contract says the company doctor will provide the company with details of illness and files etc. This is I do not like.
-I don't think I am being unreasonable. I am providing them weekly certs even though they know I am off for a month from my initial cert. I am answering any calls I receive and questions asked.

A doctor can not disclose anything you tell them in confidence regardless of what the company may want. The doctor will provide means anything you give him for them to look at

harr

bs2014 wrote: »

Without getting into tit for tat arguing
-I haven't refused to go to company doctor (they have only suggested they might send me). I just think it is unreasonable at such an early stage of being off sick.
-I would go to a company doctor. However my contract says the company doctor will provide the company with details of illness and files etc. This is I do not like.
-I don't think I am being unreasonable. I am providing them weekly certs even though they know I am off for a month from my initial cert. I am answering any calls I receive and questions asked.

I take it you signed said contract so you know all this information before hand , you know the company doctors will keep your info on file as they have to incase any health issues would have an impact on the type of job you do.
You sound like you were expecting them to take the monthly cert and them to have no other say in the matter.

drunkmonkey

bs2014 wrote: »

I just think it is unreasonable at such an early stage of being off sick.

A proper flu would have passed by now, you haven't broken anything, there just trying to establish when your coming back most illnesses have a time line, give them an estimate.
If your done there just own up to yourself, change the plan to something that'll make you happier.

Gael23

Even though the are the company’s doctor, doctor patient confidentiality still applies the exact same way.
I’ve been through something similar OP, I have a chronic illness and HR wanted an opinion from occupational health in terms of the impact of my condition on my work. All that was sent back was 3 lines outlining how she believed my condition did or didn’t impact on my work and some brief recommendations. She just said I have a “significant medical history”. I had told them I have chains disease but there’s lots more I didn’t. I’m not exaggerating when I say 3 lines of a report went back to HR.

I think you are making the situation more difficult for yourself by refusing to see the doctor. They cannot and will not disclose anything to your boss or HR without your express permission.

Stheno

No if you signed that contract with the company doctor policy by that's consent essentially even under gdpr depending on the wording.

I would not sign such a contract

DellyBelly

What's the illness? That may shed some light on this situation.

the14thwarrior

They only suggested the company doctor.
perhaps they are trying to subtly send a message to you (perhaps they do this to everyone) that unless you tell us what is wrong with you, or if you are perhaps not being honest, then we'll kinda get our own doctor to follow up.
or they are just saying if you are faking it, we'll put extra stress on you to stop faking it.

In fairness to you, after two weeks off work to be asked to go to a company doctor it does seem harsh.
But in fairness to us, we don't know what you said on the phone, or if you set off alarm bells by saying the "wrong thing" or being difficult, or being aggressive / shy / secretive / and so raised a doubt in them. Or if the manager was just reeling off the policy and letting you know what the policy is, and you are hurt by this.

maybe the company has a policy of "agressively managing sick leave" and maybe you don't know this, or maybe it has never happened to you so you might be taking it personally.

Perhaps your better question on this post is feedback on what is wrong with you, and why you think the company would have a problem with it? Why would being out of work and disclosing an illness "be of no benefit to me if i tell them"/
now that is the question?
something juicy boards might help you with

beauf

Stheno wrote: »

No if you signed that contract with the company doctor policy by that's consent essentially even under gdpr depending on the wording.

I would not sign such a contract

Maybe you could reword that it's hard to follow.

I assume contract is already signed.

Stheno

beauf wrote: »

Maybe you could reword that it's hard to follow.

I assume contract is already signed.

If op signed a contract consenting to a clause in it about allowing the company doctor to disclose information they have no basis to not attend the company doctor

The chan chan man

You’ve been off 2 weeks...

He phones you “every week”

... 2 calls from a concerned* employer is not exactly harassment. I know what I’d be saying to you!!

*Not necessarily concerned about your wellbeing but concerned about his business and when you’ll be back.

bilbot79

You should tell them what's wrong

Stheno

bilbot79 wrote: »

You should tell them what's wrong

Op does not have to unless they disclose to the company doctor as per their contract

Former Observer

I wouldn’t bother anymore with this thread OP. People love to be contrary and take the side of employers on here. Concentrate on getting better, continue sending in your certs, continue answering the phone once a week etc and don’t overthink things.

irishgrover

bs2014 wrote:

Without getting into tit for tat arguing -I haven't refused to go to company doctor (they have only suggested they might send me). I just think it is unreasonable at such an early stage of being off sick. -I would go to a company doctor. However my contract says the company doctor will provide the company with details of illness and files etc. This is I do not like. -I don't think I am being unreasonable. I am providing them weekly certs even though they know I am off for a month from my initial cert. I am answering any calls I receive and questions asked.

My personal advice would....

Do not assume that the company is out to get you. They are just following company policy. The same policy that you agreed to when entering into employment.

Respectfully, you say you do not think you are being unreasonable. I would disagree. You are reluctant to abide by the terms and conditions of the contract under which you agreed to work. There are always 2 parties to a contract. The company appears to be doing exactly what it said it would as per the contract.

With regards to the doctor providing information to the company, in my extensive experience, in multiple companies, the information is limited to the specific accomodations that I need to ensure happen in order to facilitate the employee on their return to work.

The company has a genuine requirement to understand the nature of an employee's illness and it's potential impact on that individual, co-workers and the company.
The companies liability, responsibility and associated risk may increase significantly if this is ignored.

A good example of this recently from the UK. A teacher showed an inappropriate 18s movie to a bunch of underage kids in school. He was disciplined and terminated for same. He successfully sued for almost €1,000,000. His case was based on the fact that he was stressed because of a combination of having CF and changed workload. He told the school he was stressed, they did not accomadate his stress and as a consequence he had a lapse of judgement and showed the kids an inappropriate movie resulting in him being terminated. Courts decided it was the schools fault.

So regardless of whether you think it's fair, you have already agreed to it and the company undoubtedly think it's fair and needed and normal.

Finally, and I can't emphasise this enough, try not to worry too much about this or think it's big negative. There is no reason to believe it is. The company is just following policy.

My genuine advice is to concentrate on getting better as opposed to struggling with the request to follow company policy. Think of it as getting a free 2nd opinion. Also in all my years managing teams I have never come across a gossipy doctor. The have ethical and moral drivers, information tends to be on a need to know basis, this is even truer in a post gdpr world.
Every member of my team that has been referred to the company doctor has been concerned about stigma/gossip etc. They all assume that the they are the first person to be send in years. Where's the reality is that each year at least 3 or 4 people are referred.

Best of luck with your recovery

SmartinMartin

I'm beginning to suspect why the op doesn't want to disclose the illness.

irishgrover

SmartinMartin wrote:

I'm beginning to suspect why the op doesn't want to disclose the illness.

Which is, and should be, completely immaterial to the discussion both here and at work
It is nobodies business except him/her and the doctors. The only time that changes is when it has an impact on their ability to do their job without extra accomodation.