Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

02-09-2019 9:13am

is_that_so wrote: »

Parties have a clear policy on the whip and rules for going against it.

so a "Threat" then?

is_that_so · 02-09-2019 9:14am

This looks, bizarrely, like a dig at John Major. Talk about nursing a grudge! Maastricht was 1992!

https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1168118093698228224

swampgas · 02-09-2019 9:15am

Aegir wrote: »

so a "Threat" then?

Your unwillingness to concede a point really isn't winning any arguments.

It's sounding a bit desperate to be honest.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 02-09-2019 9:17am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't see that at all, particularly given that the vast majority of the same 48% of 'Remain' voters so quickly resigned themselves to accepting Brexit and allowing the Brexiteers to define the nature of that mere 'advisory' 2016 Brexit referendum as a hard Brexit in all its destruction.

If they cannot even mobilise in opposition under a single leader now, before Brexit but when its impending consequences are clearer than ever, you can be sure that they will be reluctant to speak up/be accused of 'treason' when the consequences of a hard Brexit are being felt/ when the Europhobia will be at its peak (ultimately, of course, the Brexiteers like all populists will be brought down - but expect enormous scapegoating of the EU/everybody else, violence and, yes, politically motivated deaths on top of the one MP who has already been murdered before they are exposed/get their comeuppance)

I’d say Brexit will be permanent. The economy will reset. A lot of liberals will leave. The hardships will be blamed on the EU, and the political positions will harden.

is_that_so · 02-09-2019 9:18am

Aegir wrote: »

so a "Threat" then?

Well if you sign up to it, it's a rule. Parties use the whip for a very good reason, to stop parliamentarians doing solo runs, thereby offering consistent positions on issues. Bear in mind that anyone elected as a party candidate has had the full resources of that party behind them.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 02-09-2019 9:18am

is_that_so wrote: »

This looks, bizarrely, like a dig at John Major. Talk about nursing a grudge! Maastricht was 1992!

https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1168118093698228224

He’s talking about the budget rules in Maastricht.

Edit: which apparently don’t apply to the UK.

is_that_so · 02-09-2019 9:23am

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

He’s talking about the budget rules in Maastricht.

Edit: which apparently don’t apply to the UK.

The budget limits would through the Stability and Growth Pact but Britain went its own route on austerity. Nothing to do with the EU and it's the linking of the two that is porkies.

Blueshoe · 02-09-2019 9:24am

is_that_so wrote: »

Their resigning was of their own volition. It wasn't forced at all. The context which you've completely ignored here was a social issue that they felt was important to them but their party had a different stance.

I'm inclined to agree with the other poster. I'd say in paper they resigned but in reality were put out . Couldn't return .

We are so quick to look at other countries and shake the finger but turn a blind eye or maybe just don't see what's going on here.

02-09-2019 9:26am

swampgas wrote: »

Your unwillingness to concede a point really isn't winning any arguments.

It's sounding a bit desperate to be honest.

what's to concede. The Tories are invoking a full whip on the vote. Similar to the way FG and SF did for the Abortion vote. Vote against eh party and whip and get thrown out.

I don't see anyone talking about fascism, Nazi parties and civil war over that though.

is_that_so · 02-09-2019 9:27am

Blueshoe wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with the other poster. I'd say in paper they resigned but in reality were put out . Couldn't return .

We are so quick to look at other countries and shake the finger but turn a blind eye or maybe just don't see what's going on here.

They all went on a single issue, abortion. SF would rather have kept Toibin because he was a guaranteed seat and Lucinda was going places in FG. They chose to leave.

OldGoat · 02-09-2019 9:29am

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why did the queen sign off on the shutdown?

Because :

It is normal for a new prime minister to ask the monarch to prorogue Parliament so that the government can set out a new legislative agenda. It usually happens every year, resulting in the State Opening of Parliament, which is something akin to the State of the Union, only it involves the queen and a carriage ride and a speech given from a throne. That’s normal here.

While proroguing may be routine and normal you have to ask why it's been done now ahead of the Brexit deadlines rather that after when the dust is settling.
It may be routine but the timing is pure politicking and tacit undemocratic.

VinLieger · 02-09-2019 9:30am

Aegir wrote: »

what's to concede. The Tories are invoking a full whip on the vote. Similar to the way FG and SF did for the Abortion vote. Vote against eh party and whip and get thrown out.

I don't see anyone talking about fascism, Nazi parties and civil war over that though.

Its completely different as they are doing it to stop themselves loosing their majority and control of the country as they do not have a mandate for what they are doing

02-09-2019 9:32am

VinLieger wrote: »

Its completely different

I guessed it would be :rolleyes:

VinLieger · 02-09-2019 9:33am

Aegir wrote: »

I guessed it would be :rolleyes:

Ohhhh a cutting retort

Blueshoe · 02-09-2019 9:34am

VinLieger wrote: »

Ohhhh a cutting retort

No need to get like that just because everyone doesn't agree with you.

VinLieger · 02-09-2019 9:39am

Blueshoe wrote: »

No need to get like that just because everyone doesn't agree with you.

Im simply replying in kind to someone who doesnt seem capable of addressing the points im making

02-09-2019 9:41am

VinLieger wrote: »

Ohhhh a cutting retort

come one, what is the big deal?

Tory MPs are being told to make their ****ing minds up. They are being told to stop opting for this imaginary "No No Deal" option and either take the deal, or leave without one.

The option being "Explored" by Corbyn is just more fence sitting. There is a very easy way to prevent the UK leaving the eu without a deal and that is to accept the deal that is on the table.

Piss or get off the pot.

VinLieger · 02-09-2019 9:45am

Aegir wrote: »

come one, what is the big deal?

Tory MPs are being told to make their ****ing minds up. They are being told to stop opting for this imaginary "No No Deal" option and either take the deal, or leave without one.

The option being "Explored" by Corbyn is just more fence sitting. There is a very easy way to prevent the UK leaving the eu without a deal and that is to accept the deal that is on the table.

Piss or get off the pot.

No its a threat to do what they are told by an unelected autocrat that does not have a mandate to do what he is doing.

Without the whip being applied they could still vote against it and bring down the government this is just petty vengeance for anyone who does so.

Blueshoe · 02-09-2019 9:49am

VinLieger wrote: »

No its a threat to do what they are told by an unelected autocrat that does not have a mandate to do what he is doing.

Without the whip being applied they could still vote against it and bring down the government this is just petty vengeance for anyone who does so.

Boris was elected by the Tory party . No different to how a taoiseach is chosen here.
Did you get s chance to vote for Leo or Enda or any of the others?

VinLieger · 02-09-2019 9:57am

Blueshoe wrote: »

Boris was elected by the Tory party . No different to how a taoiseach is chosen here.
Did you get s chance to vote for Leo or Enda or any of the others?

Ohh sorry i was simply going by Johnsons own defintion of elected

Boris Johnson (2005) wrote:

“They voted for Anthony Charles Lynton Blair to serve as their leader. They were at no stage invited to vote on whether Gordon Brown should be PM… They voted for Tony, and yet they now get Gordon, and a transition about as democratically proper as the transition from Claudius to Nero. It is a scandal. Why are we all conniving in this stitch-up? This is nothing less than a palace coup… with North Korean servility, the Labour Party has handed power over to the brooding Scottish power-maniac.

The extraordinary thing is that it looks as though he will now be in 10 Downing Street for three years, and without a mandate from the British people. No one elected Gordon Brown as Prime Minister…”

Blueshoe · 02-09-2019 10:05am

VinLieger wrote: »

Ohh sorry i was simply going by Johnsons own defintion of elected

So you are agreeing with me

swampgas · 02-09-2019 10:07am

Aegir wrote: »

what's to concede. The Tories are invoking a full whip on the vote.

"Nothing to see here, move along" ?

Johnson/Cummings are pulling out all the stops to prevent their actions being scrutinised and approved by parliament. Threatening to deselect MPs goes beyod removing the whip. They can opt to do that as a party, but to suggest that it isn't part of an overall power play to remove the role of parliament is just deluded.

Stop moaning ffs · 02-09-2019 10:07am

This is well worth a listen. Mogg really out of his depth against the doctor who wrote the medical section of yellowhammer. So he resorts to insults.

https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1168440178354065413?s=21

First Up · 02-09-2019 10:12am

Blueshoe wrote:

Boris was elected by the Tory party . No different to how a taoiseach is chosen here. Did you get s chance to vote for Leo or Enda or any of the others?

Very different. 75% of the weighted vote for FG leader is from elected representatives in the Dail or Councils. Only 25% is from party members.

Igotadose · 02-09-2019 10:12am

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

This is well worth a listen. Mogg really out of his depth against the doctor who wrote the medical section of yellowhammer. So he resorts to insults.

Is there a transcript anywhere? JRM is painful to listen to, sounds like a cartoon character.

Blueshoe · 02-09-2019 10:13am

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

This is well worth a listen. Mogg really out of his depth against the doctor who wrote the medical section of yellowhammer. So he resorts to insults.

https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1168440178354065413?s=21

You must have posted the wrong link there. "Out of his depth"
??

Stop moaning ffs · 02-09-2019 10:25am

Igotadose wrote: »

Is there a transcript anywhere? JRM is painful to listen to, sounds like a cartoon character.

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1168434092611911681?s=21

02-09-2019 10:26am

First Up wrote: »

Very different. 75% of the weighted vote for FG leader is from elected representatives in the Dail or Councils. Only 25% is from party members.

and Johnson won every round of voting when it was 100% MPs.

people are looking for something that just isn't there.

Stop moaning ffs · 02-09-2019 10:26am

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1168432907922358273?s=21

FrancieBrady · 02-09-2019 10:26am

I love the way people try the 'look over there' stunt and totally avoid looking at all that is going on in the UK.

Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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