Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Franz Von Peppercorn II

davedanon wrote: »

"the real deal" meaning what, exactly?


Are you impressed by his money?

I mean he’s clearly upper class. No point in denying that. I wouldn’t have him down as a prole.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

davedanon wrote: »

Boris has had a bad day. He lost his parliamentary majority, lost his very first vote, and now he's about to remove the whip, or effectively sack, the grandson of his hero Winston Churchill.

He wants an election so I don’t think it was a bad day.

davedanon

Yes. Jesus, they don't call him 'the honourable member for the 18th century' for nothing. Who ever suggested he wasn't anything but upper-class?

Kermit.de.frog

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Going to need a translation Kermit :-) ..

From 20 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIRA307kIi0

davedanon

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

He wants an election so I don’t think it was a bad day.

Don't think he wanted it to play out quite like this. To paraphrase John McCain: "He just got butt-****ed on national tv".

Franz Von Peppercorn II

davedanon wrote: »

Yes. Jesus, they don't call him 'the honourable member for the 18th century' for nothing. Who ever suggested he wasn't anything but upper-class?

This argument is getting tiresome. It was you who scorned the idea he was the “real deal”. Others have said similar.

He can be the real deal and be fairly loathsome.

davedanon

I think that was based on a misunderstanding. The poster saying he had no class and was all veneer was not referring to his privileged upbringing. He is loathsome, and he is all surface and no substance. Moneyed background notwithstanding.

Donnielighto

This is playing out as Johnson wants. This forces a delay deal into house of lord's. If it gets filibustered then corbyn alliance holds power to wait out the filibuster. Then either Boris calls an election or corbyn again takes power on the proviso of an election. Either of them goes to EU with delay bill and promise of election. EU agree.

Two scenarios for the election depending on Boris keeping the Tory leadership.

Boris as leader.
Boris turns this into a parliament and eu vs the ordinary man narrative. Tories remain pro Brexit and the rest of the regional, labour and lib dems etc all go on the platform of remain. Brexit party I don't know if they field but if they do they damage boris's chances. Labour or labour alliance win referendum called article 50 revoked. If it's an alliance there may an election called post Brexit issue sorted. If Tories win hard Brexit.

Boris gone, less likely.
Tories get a new anti Brexit leader, split some seats with labour, Brexit party surges. Labour or labour coalition gets power, referendum called and Brexit called off. Tories take a while to recover.

I think Boris stays as leader and loses the election but I think this is his play.

cryptocurrency

Donnielighto wrote: »

This is playing out as Johnson wants. This forces a delay deal into house of lord's. If it gets filibustered then corbyn alliance holds power to wait out the filibuster. Then either Boris calls an election or corbyn again takes power on the proviso of an election. Either of them goes to EU with delay bill and promise of election. EU agree.

Two scenarios for the election depending on Boris keeping the Tory leadership.

Boris as leader.
Boris turns this into a parliament and eu vs the ordinary man narrative. Tories remain pro Brexit and the rest of the regional, labour and lib dems etc all go on the platform of remain. Brexit party I don't know if they field but if they do they damage boris's chances. Labour or labour alliance win referendum called article 50 revoked. If it's an alliance there may an election called post Brexit issue sorted. If Tories win hard Brexit.

Boris gone, less likely.
Tories get a new anti Brexit leader, split some seats with labour, Brexit party surges. Labour or labour coalition gets power, referendum called and Brexit called off. Tories take a while to recover.

I think Boris stays as leader and loses the election but I think this is his play.

I would say the events of tonight are not in the slightest bit of a surprise to number 10. I sense we are moving at breakneck speed to no deal. Even if that exit moves to end of January.
Boris play of the people vs parliament will work.

rob316

Ideal scenario. Boris calls a GE wins a majority, ****s the DUP under a bus and takes the WA better worded and this whole affair is done.

Dragging this out till the end of the year is disastrous, the British need to get back to the national agenda.

cryptocurrency

rob316 wrote: »

Ideal scenario. Boris calls a GE wins a majority, ****s the DUP under a bus and takes the WA better worded and this whole affair is done.

Dragging this out till the end of the year is disastrous, the British need to get back to the national agenda.

This is more likely than the pure fantasy the irish media spounts that the UK wants to remain or will swallow the EU red lines.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

This is more likely than the pure fantasy the irish media spounts that the UK wants to remain or will swallow the EU red lines.

Which Irish media says this exactly?

Bannasidhe

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He is a legit card carrying accepted by the establishment member of the upper class posh tribe ..and he is loaded.

He is worth 155 million.

He's a **** etc but he is the real deal. And his attitudes towards Irish people reflect that tribes attitudes towards Irish people in general.

I'm very familiar with his background. I have met people who outrank him both in the posh tribe stakes and net worth. They think he is a jumped up insufferable oik.

If he was genuinely that posh he wouldn't be in the Commons darlink, he would be in the Lords. But, he is merely a Right Hon, son of newspaper editor who was made a lifetime peer. Technically, Hilary Benn who sits on the Labour Benches is far 'posher' than Rees-Mogg being the son, brother and grandson of Viscounts and the great-grandson of a hereditary Baron.

Rees-Mogg is a caricature of the English Upper Class - a little upper middle class wannabe much like Boris is a Churchill wannabe.

Sadly, there is a foolish belief that expensively applied polish + money = class.

It doesn't.

cryptocurrency

davedanon wrote: »

Which Irish media says this exactly?

All of them, using lines about unicorns etc. The reality is if the UK electorate were given a voice of this they would mic drop and walk and anyone with any guts knows it.

The masses who are not vocal on the #FBPE twitter mob or calling themselves EU supergirl are still out there and I suspect have grown in number.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

All of them, using lines about unicorns etc. The reality is if the UK electorate were given a voice of this they would mic drop and walk and anyone with any guts knows it.

The masses who are not vocal on the #FBPE twitter mob or calling themselves EU supergirl are still out there and I suspect have grown in number.

I reckon that what you're saying here is that the English would vote leave again in an election, is that right?



and what do 'guts' have to do with anything?

cryptocurrency

davedanon wrote: »

I reckon that what you're saying here is that the English would vote leave again in an election, is that right?



and what do 'guts' have to do with anything?

Guts is being honest with themselves. Things Brexit has shown people is that the urban remainer types are hysterical babies who are frightened of even a few hours delays at dover with their brie while the majority of the nation has more grit and can't be cowed with scare stories.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Guts is being honest with themselves. Things Brexit has shown people is that the urban remainer types are hysterical babies who are frightened of even a few hours delays at dover with their brie while the majority of the nation has more grit and can't be cowed with scare stories.

That's all very silly dude. The consequences will be serious. If you cannot realize that then it is because you just don't understand rudimentary basics. Ignorance is bliss and all that

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's all very silly dude. The consequences will be serious. If you cannot realize that then it is because you just don't understand rudimentary basics. Ignorance is bliss and all that

It doesn't have to be if the EU moves.

All the talk has been with the UK having to fold to the EU. Cameron went in 2015 and tried to get reforms and they did not move. They only spouted that the UK gets this and that and they have enough when that was the final point that it became clear that the EU is on a trajectory and it doesn't suit the UK and its global free market ambitions. The UK knows the real worlds is happening outside the EU and not in it.

The drama to leave the EU has only made it clear that this is something that has to be done. Why anyone could have watched the last 3 years and not be alarmed by how vulnerable you make a nation by getting it deeper in the EU web.

davedanon

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's all very silly dude. The consequences will be serious. If you cannot realize that then it is because you just don't understand rudimentary basics. Ignorance is bliss and all that

Never mind all that. BATTLE OF BRITAIN.

BLITZ SPIRIT INNIT.

WE WILL PREVAIL.


etc etc.

Kermit.de.frog

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It doesn't have to be if the EU moves.

All the talk has been with the UK having to fold to the EU.

UK is leaving the club.

EU is largest free market in the world.

Not a negotiation of equals - ergo of course UK has to fold.

They didn't tell you that?

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It doesn't have to be if the EU moves.

All the talk has been with the UK having to fold to the EU. Cameron went in 2015 and tried to get reforms and they did not move. They only spouted that the UK gets this and that and they have enough when that was the final point that it became clear that the EU is on a trajectory and it doesn't suit the UK and its global free market ambitions. The UK knows the real worlds is happening outside the EU and not in it.

The drama to leave the EU has only made it clear that this is something that has to be done. Why anyone could have watched the last 3 years and not be alarmed by how vulnerable you make a nation by getting it deeper in the EU web.

Haha. Wait until you see how vulnerable a nation gets when it leaves the EU. The UK will be spit-roasted on the world stage.

cryptocurrency

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

UK is leaving the club.

EU is largest free market in the world.

Not a negotiation of equals - ergo of course UK has to fold.

They didn't tell you that?

Not really. UK needs to deal with the pain of No Deal and slash everything on the EU doorstep. Undermine it at every single opportunity, with Washington for its clear hostile acts towards it for trying to leave and threatening to supply chains to disrupt medicine.

The EU and its abuse if supply chains in its quest to avoid healthy competition has to be viewed as no longer a close "partner".

Bannasidhe

davedanon wrote: »

Never mind all that. BATTLE OF BRITAIN.

BLITZ SPIRIT INNIT.

WE WILL PREVAIL.


etc etc.

We shall fight ourselves on the beaches!!
Never were so many lied to by so few.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Not really. UK needs to deal with the pain of No Deal and slash everything on the EU doorstep. Undermine it at every single opportunity, with Washington for its clear hostile acts towards it for trying to leave and threatening to supply chains to disrupt medicine.

The EU and its abuse if supply chains in its quest to avoid healthy competition has to be viewed as no longer a close "partner".

I don't even understand what this means.

davedanon

I understand all the individual words, but they just don't seem to be in the right order.

cryptocurrency

davedanon wrote: »

I don't even understand what this means.

Washington was a reference to whom it needs to ally with. You do sense that the Trump administration is very much behind the UK.

That's another 5 years for a start.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Washington was a reference to whom it needs to ally with. You do sense that the Trump administration is very much behind the UK.

That's another 5 years for a start.

But but but...what if the US wants to do one of those evil "deal" things? You know the thing that would be really bad if the UK had one with the EU?





I'm sure they'll say "ah sure you'll be grand. just do what you want". The same as those countries tend to have open borders for people and good now. It doesn't matter whether you are British or Mexican - you can go to the US and get yourself a nice little job and be welcomed without even having to fill out a single form. And we see how generous and free-trade they are with the likes of China.





Being serious, and sorry to burst your bubble, but certain types in the US US "support" Brexit because it weakens EU slightly and UK greatly. Leaving plenty of rich pickings for US companies circling like vultures. There will be a smash and grab.

droidman123

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Washington was a reference to whom it needs to ally with. You do sense that the Trump administration is very much behind the UK.

That's another 5 years for a start.

If you think the usa will give a fiddlers about the uk economy you are very deluded

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

But but but...what if the US wants to do one of those evil "deal" things? You know the thing that would be really bad if the UK had one with the EU?





I'm sure they'll say "ah sure you'll be grand. just do what you want". The same as those countries tend to have open borders for people and good now. It doesn't matter whether you are British or Mexican - you can go to the US and get yourself a nice little job and be welcomed without even having to fill out a single form. And we see how generous and free-trade they are with the likes of China.





Being serious, and sorry to burst your bubble, but certain types in the US US "support" Brexit because it weakens EU slightly and UK greatly. Leaving plenty of rich pickings for US companies circling like vultures. There will be a smash and grab.

Yeah we will sure be great consumers when skint...jeysus.

You are right on one thing, the US does want to see the EU weakened, and will achieve it.

The EU is fairly tin pot compared to it. ...or China.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Yeah we will sure be great consumers when skint...jeysus.

You are right on one thing, the US does want to see the EU weakened, and will achieve it.

The EU is fairly tin pot compared to it. ...or China.

By what measure, exactly?