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Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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    #3932
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    What a joke shop parliament has become. Conspiring to prevent democracy is as low as it gets.
    Its just the ending of the empire, it was always going to happen, but I didn't think it would happen so quickly


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    #3933
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    What empire?


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    #3934
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    davedanon wrote: »
    What empire?
    The british empire


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    #3935
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Dude, that disappeared a long time ago.


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    #3936
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    declanflynn wrote: »
    The british empire


    The British empire was over decades ago.


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    #3937
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    SCOOP 64 wrote: »
    declanflynn wrote: »
    The british empire


    The British empire was over decades ago.
    No, it's not gone until britian no longer exists, it looks like brexit is going to do that


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    #3938
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    But the Brits don't know that.
    They wouldn't be in this mess if they understood that they are no longer an Empire.....


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    #3939
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    I wonder if Scotland could do a reverse takeover of england


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    #3940
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    shesty wrote: »
    But the Brits don't know that.
    They wouldn't be in this mess if they understood that they are no longer an Empire.....

    To a very large degree, talk and obsession about Empire tends to be a remain supporter topic.

    On topics polled on why people voted for leave, it never crops up and in discussion it is nearly always from Remain supporters.


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    #3941
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Danzy wrote: »
    To a very large degree, talk and obsession about Empire tends to be a remain supporter topic.

    On topics polled on why people voted for leave, it never crops up and in discussion it is nearly always from Remain supporters.

    Have you evidence for this assertion?


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    #3942
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Danzy wrote: »
    shesty wrote: »
    But the Brits don't know that.
    They wouldn't be in this mess if they understood that they are no longer an Empire.....

    To a very large degree, talk and obsession about Empire tends to be a remain supporter topic.

    On topics polled on why people voted for leave, it never crops up and in discussion it is nearly always from Remain supporters.
    It won't crop up for much longer, britian will not exist soon so that should finish any empire chat


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    #3943
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    declanflynn wrote: »
    It won't crop up for much longer, britian will not exist soon so that should finish any empire chat

    Please God.

    It'll be a real side bonus from all this.


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    #3944
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Withdrawing from the world isn’t very imperial.


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    #3945
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Danzy wrote: »
    Please God.

    It'll be a real side bonus from all this.

    That seems a very dangerous wish. The break up of the UK will have such negative effects on ireland it would not be funny.


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    #3946
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    The House of Commons seems like great craic the last few days. Go in there after a few pints at the bar, bring a sneaky naggin and start getting rowdy with the rest of them. Finish the evening off with a rendition of Come Out Ye Black and Tans.


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    #3947
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Danzy wrote: »
    Please God.

    It'll be a real side bonus from all this.

    That seems a very dangerous wish. The break up of the UK will have such negative effects on ireland it would not be funny.
    No it wouldn't
    There would be 3 seperate countries instead of a union of those countries


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    #3948
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    489931.jpg


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    #3949
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭storker


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    What a joke shop parliament has become. Conspiring to prevent democracy is as low as it gets.

    It's not conspiring to prevent democracy. The vote was non-binding, it's just that politicians promised to implement the decision. If politicians reneging on promises is the end of democracy, then democracy died a very long time ago.


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    #3950
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Democracy.jpg

    https://fullfact.org/online/referendum-results-by-constituency/


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    #3951
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    "Leave" is a ridiculously ambiguous term, it's all very well 17.4million people voting to leave but they didn't all vote for no deal neither did they all vote for leaving with some form of deal. The referendum wasn't legally binding and the leave side (who broke electoral rules re funding) didn't put forward a solid plan on what sort of "leave" people would be voting for. Only months ago most of Johnson's cabinet were anti-no deal, even Farage thought they'd get a deal. There's no evidence to suggest that no deal is the will of the people.


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    #3952
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    There's no evidence to suggest that no deal is the will of the people.
    There is no evidence anyone voted to leave on condition there was a deal.


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    #3953
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    biko wrote: »
    There is no evidence anyone voted to leave on condition there was a deal.

    I never said there was but all the evidence suggests that no deal would be a disaster for Britain. To suggest they do proceed with the *worst form* of Brexit because 17.4 million people voted for *some form* of Brexit in an advisory referendum is nonsense.


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    #3954
    topmanamillion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    declanflynn wrote: »
    I wonder if Scotland could do a reverse takeover of england

    Ah good old Scotland. They could be within months of accession to the EU as an independent nation calling their own shots.
    Instead they choose to be dragged along with this sh1t show.


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    #3955
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    This coming from a nation that continuously puts FG and FF back into power?

    Who do you think should be in power?


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    #3956
    Edgarfrndly
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭Edgarfrndly


    biko wrote: »
    There is no evidence anyone voted to leave on condition there was a deal.

    Sure there is. There has been lots of surveys and analysis done post-referendum. Of course there were unrepentant nationalists who wanted to leave the EU at any cost, but many did so on the assumption there would still be some form of co-operation afterwards and a trade deal.


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    #3957
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    There is no evidence anyone voted to leave on condition there was a deal.

    If there was any mandate for No Deal, the discussions with the EU wouldn't have taken place at all.


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    #3958
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    If i were people in the EU i wouldn't give them any more extensions. Its this deal or leave in oct.

    They can leave with no deal.

    Necessity will make them get it together.

    Macron is said to have preemptively rejected any extension.


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    #3959
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If there was any mandate for No Deal, the discussions with the EU wouldn't have taken place at all.

    The referendum was to leave, not to work in the background with the EU to form a deal that basically takes an EU logo off passports and leave everything else basically the same. The mandate was to regain complete financial and border control, complete autonomy of fishing territories and the control of movement of all goods and people in and out of britain.

    No deal is a lot closer to what was promised, envisioned and the referendum won on than May’s deal or any other was close to. For us as irish people a customs union is obviously the preferrable, or for it not to have happened at all, but leaving our own countries desires aside, borris is trying to deliver closer to what 52% of britain freely voted for than anything the opposition or even half the moderate conservatives will give a nod to.

    Does that make this a good idea or not a complete f*ckup - absolutely not , does it make it what the people democratically voted for - absolutely yes.


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    #3960
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,512 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    biko wrote: »
    There is no evidence anyone voted to leave on condition there was a deal.
    Nor is there any evidence for the converse proposition.

    And that's the point. When people say that the referendum is non-binding, the conclusion is not that it's irrelevant or can be ignored; it's that it (deliberately) left a lot of questions open, unanswered. It gives a mandate for general direction of travel, but doesn't prescribe a specific route, a timetable or a final destination. All those things were left for Parliament to decide. It's the equivalent of deciding that the family holiday will be in France but not deciding when the holiday will be, how long it will be, how the family will get there, or where in France they will stay.

    Any action which results in the UK no longer being named on the Wikipedia page "List of Member States of the European Union" is a fulfilment of the mandate conferred by the referendum. Everything else is up for grabs. Should the UK leave with a deal or without? That's for Parliament to decide. Should the UK join the EEA and so remain in the Single Market? Again, a matter for Parliament. The Customs Union? An Association Agreement with the EU? A uniform deal for the whole UK or one which treats different parts of the UK differently? All matters for Parliament.

    Parliament is having difficulty making decisions about these matters. That, frankly, was a forseeable problem. Brexiters wishimg to implement Brexit needed to develop a form of Brexit capable of commanding broad support in Parlaiment and to work to build a coalition in support of it. They did precisely the opposite of these things, with entirely forseeable consequences that are now playing out. They have nobody but themselves to blame for this. They referendum gave them a strong mandate and put them in pole position to carry through Brexit, and they have utterly squandered this opportunity.


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    #3961
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The referendum was to leave, not to work in the background with the EU to form a deal that basically takes an EU logo off passports and leave everything else basically the same. The mandate was to regain complete financial and border control, complete autonomy of fishing territories and the control of movement of all goods and people in and out of britain.

    No deal is a lot closer to what was promised, envisioned and the referendum won on than May’s deal or any other was close to. For us as irish people a customs union is obviously the preferrable, or for it not to have happened at all, but leaving our own countries desires aside, borris is trying to deliver closer to what 52% of britain freely voted for than anything the opposition or even half the moderate conservatives will give a nod to..

    This just isn’t true. They kept talking about the Norway option, Farage in particular.


This discussion has been closed.
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