Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

davedanon

Here's a link to the leaflet. It indeed cost £9 million, and one Boris Johnson loudly complained about the cost. Current government brexit advertising is £100m, and it doesn't mention plans for petrol rationing and drug shortages.

But here's the thing. This leaflet was Pro-Remain. That was the government's position, that they should stay in the EU.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

Professor Moriarty

davedanon wrote: »

Here's a link to the leaflet. It indeed cost £9 million, and one Boris Johnson loudly complained about the cost. Current government brexit advertising is £100m, and it doesn't mention plans for petrol rationing and drug shortages.

But here's the thing. This leaflet was Pro-Remain. That was the government's position, that they should stay in the EU.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

This is what Cryptocurrency said:

There was a leaflet issued at the cost of £10m to every household in the UK outline what leave meant.

Leave the single market, leave the customs union, end the control of the ECJ and to end free movement.

It also warned that there would be a end to free mobile phone roaming. They seemed to think that might swing it.

Cryptocurrency simply made it up. It was a lie.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She did not include enough ID with her application. She can reapply with the proper paperwork. She has until December 2020. The UK gov has stated that no one currently in the UK will be kicked out. FAKE NEWS

Proof please

J Mysterio

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well Teresa May was terrible, giving the EU everything they wanted. "Hey can we have 39 billion?" Yeah OK!!


Boris has had his best bargaining chip taken away from him. He wanted a deal. People in this forum don't understand negotiation at all

Youd worry for UK society if they take the example of the UK government in how to conduct negotiations. 'The art of the deal'.

Kidchameleon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Proof please

Watch the video and pause it on the frame where she is holding her papers. Its in black and white

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/Ruptly/status/1170413340868468736

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/1170558463853891584

davedanon

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/08/france-threatens-to-veto-further-brexit-extension

France threatening to veto another extension.

and

"In Brussels, the absence of papers is seen as a sign that the UK is not serious about finding an agreement. British officials reject this criticism: the UK has not put pen to paper, because ministers are worried the EU will immediately shoot down proposals. The UK would like Brussels to share the task of finding an alternative to the backstop."

The utter gall of these people. We want something that you won't give us for very good reasons, but we still want it, and what's more we want you to help us bring it about.

davedanon

It's to the EU's eternal credit that they have displayed this herculean level of patience. They should have told them to fcuk right off long ago.

Kidchameleon

davedanon wrote: »

France threatening to veto another extension.

Hopefully it doesn't get to that point but they WILL give an extension if it does. The EU does not want the UK to leave and France will tow the line.

davedanon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Hopefully it doesn't get to that point but they WILL give an extension if it does. The EU does not want the UK to leave and France will tow the line.

Probably, but I wouldn't bet on it. I don't think you know the EU's mindset as well as you think, meanwhile.

And as for France and the likelihood they will toe the line. I thought France was the EU, along with Germany. Who's telling big-ass France what to do then?

Kidchameleon

davedanon wrote: »

Probably, but I wouldn't bet on it. I don't think you know the EU's mindset as well as you think, meanwhile.

And as for France and the likelihood they will toe the line. I thought France was the EU, along with Germany. Who's telling big-ass France what to do then?

Well I'd be delighted to be wrong. If it got to that stage and the EU did not give an extension, that would be fantastic. I genuinely don't think the UK will ask for one as I cannot see Boris doing that, and he will be PM beyond the 31st of October so it could only be him.

batgoat

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well I'd be delighted to be wrong. If it got to that stage and the EU did not give an extension, that would be fantastic. I genuinely don't think the UK will ask for one as I cannot see Boris doing that, and he will be PM beyond the 31st of October so it could only be him.

Depending on how upcoming votes go, he will be breaking the law by not requesting an extension...

_Kaiser_

The EU will do whatever needed to keep the club together (it was the same in recession times). It'll break it's own rules and push the can down the road as far as necessary to get the result it wants.

They simply cannot afford to have members leave, and worse maybe even be successful after the dust settles. It'd start an exodus among a lot of the smaller countries who are already unhappy and feeling disenfranchised with the direction the EU is heading.

In the end, a deal will be done that allows both sides to save face and claim the other gave up something important.

Kidchameleon

batgoat wrote: »

Depending on how upcoming votes go, he will be breaking the law by not requesting an extension...

Could you link to you information regarding what law he may be breaking. I have tried to verify that claim but have come up blank. The bill you are referring to has not yet been given royal assent, therefore it is not yet law. There are other loopholes he could exploit to get around it also. With a general election and a new government, he can tear it up as he would not be bound by the previous parliament (that is one of Corbyns biggest fears and you wont hear a peep about it on the mainstream media)

Kidchameleon

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The EU will do whatever needed to keep the club together (it was the same in recession times). It'll break it's own rules and push the can down the road as far as necessary to get the result it wants.

+1 on this.


There are rumors that the opposition spoke with the EU about an extension and this would be illegal under EU law. I cannot confirm this by the way.

sabat

Kidchameleon wrote: »

With a general election and a new government, he can tear it up as he would not be bound by the previous parliament

Yeah that's how the law works. The entire statute book just gets a do-over every time there's a new government.

davedanon

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The EU will do whatever needed to keep the club together (it was the same in recession times). It'll break it's own rules and push the can down the road as far as necessary to get the result it wants.

They simply cannot afford to have members leave, and worse maybe even be successful after the dust settles. It'd start an exodus among a lot of the smaller countries who are already unhappy and feeling disenfranchised with the direction the EU is heading.

In the end, a deal will be done that allows both sides to save face and claim the other gave up something important.

I would seriously dispute this. If the EU was that weak that it was willing to do whatever it takes to stop any member from leaving, then the wheels would have come off long ago. After that all we have are your unproven assertions and suggestions. What evidence is there that Britain will be successful? Hardly any. Loads to suggest it will be very bad, however.

And which smaller nations are disgruntled, exactly? They might moan and groan from time to time. Every EU member does. There's aspects to the EU that every single member is very unhappy with. But in the end, they all go along. Because they know that being inside the tent is always better, than out in the cold.

You're making the exact same mistake that the Brits are making. Thinking they're too important to be allowed leave. The EU will let them leave, alright. And they'll make an example of them afterwards. Pour encourager les autres. Not out of spite. Out of self-preservation.

Kidchameleon

sabat wrote: »

Yeah that's how the law works. The entire statute book just gets a do-over every time there's a new government.

You are wrong. In the UK there is what is called "parliamentary sovereignty". Meaning that any government formed after a general election can disregard laws made by the previous parliament. A new government would not be "bound" by the previous parliament. Look it up, I am right and you are wrong.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You are wrong. In the UK there is what is called "parliamentary sovereignty". Meaning that any government formed after a general election can disregard laws made by the previous parliament. A new government would not be "bound" by the previous parliament. Look it up, I am right and you are wrong.

So why are you claiming it is undemocratic for Sovereign Parliament to go against an advisory referendum?

Eric Cartman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

This is what Cryptocurrency said:

There was a leaflet issued at the cost of £10m to every household in the UK outline what leave meant.

Leave the single market, leave the customs union, end the control of the ECJ and to end free movement.

It also warned that there would be a end to free mobile phone roaming. They seemed to think that might swing it.

Cryptocurrency simply made it up. It was a lie.

page 8 :

Remaining in the EU’s Single Market makes it easier and cheaper for UK companies to sell their goods and services to other EU countries.

implying that leaving means leaving the single market

the guide also explicitly talks about the potential end to freedom of movement, that paying the EU money would end

the guide is clearly prepped for a no deal brexit and saying that getting all the deals in place could take a decade after brexit.

Kidchameleon

Deleted User wrote: »

So why are you claiming it is undemocratic for Sovereign Parliament to go against an advisory referendum?

Because it is undemocratic.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Because it is undemocratic.

Parliament is Sovereign, as you said, so how is it undemocratic?

Also the advice was to leave the EU and Parliament was to decide how that happens and they have decided that they are not to leave without a deal.

Kidchameleon

Deleted User wrote: »

Parliament is Sovereign, as you said, so how is it undemocratic?

Also the advice was to leave the EU and Parliament was to decide how that happens and they have decided that they are not to leave without a deal.

OK I have highlighted the terms you need to look up, then we can continue the discussion

sabat

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You are wrong. In the UK there is what is called "parliamentary sovereignty". Meaning that any government formed after a general election can disregard laws made by the previous parliament. A new government would not be "bound" by the previous parliament. Look it up, I am right and you are wrong.

That's a a bizarre interpretation of the right of parliament to pass laws. Of course they can introduce a law rescinding the previous one but they have to vote on it first. You're either completely deluded or really stupid. (I'll take the yellow card for saying that.)

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OK I have highlighted the terms you need to look up, then we can continue the discussion

Was the referendum legally binding?
Do the people or parliament make the decisions in the UK?

In the UK there is what is called "parliamentary sovereignty"

Meaning that no referendum is binging on parliament, just an advisory.
Parliament decides on how to act on any referendum and they have democratically decided that they will leave but not without a deal in place first.


If the brits don't like that then they can elect parties who support change to the system

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

page 8 :

implying that leaving means leaving the single market

Your interpretation only.

the guide also explicitly talks about the potential end to freedom of movement,

Not even implicitly. In fact, the words 'freedom of movement' are not mentioned. Nor are the consequences of ending FOM.

that paying the EU money would end

It doesn't say that at all.

the guide is clearly prepped for a no deal brexit

Maybe you're reading a leaflet from a different planet.

and saying that getting all the deals in place could take a decade after brexit

Indeed. On that, the leaflet could be right.

So, nowhere at all are Freedom of Movement, ECJ or the Customs Union mentioned. The Single Market is mentioned once but the consequences of crashing out of it are not discussed at all. So Cryptocurrency lied.

Calina

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You are wrong. In the UK there is what is called "parliamentary sovereignty". Meaning that any government formed after a general election can disregard laws made by the previous parliament. A new government would not be "bound" by the previous parliament. Look it up, I am right and you are wrong.

You are wrong. Or more to the point, you don't understand what this means. Effectively, no parliament can bind a future parliament. That means that any law a parliament passes can be repealed or updated by any future parliament.

The law being discussed at present is the Benn law which has been sent for Royal Ascent. Specifically, it has a provision that the PM must request an extension by 19 October.

Along with that, the opposition _currently_ controls the expected next election, and current expectation is that they favour a date after 31 October.

Parliamentary sovereignty means parliament is sovereign, and that the government is subject to what parliament permits or requests. In other words, he government needs parliamentary acquiescence to repeal any law it doesn't like. Until that happens, the law stays on the books. An election is not a guaranteed reset.

Peter Flynt

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Meaning that any government formed after a general election can disregard laws made by the previous parliament.

I've never read anything so stupid in all my life.

Well done you.

Sonny678

The Brits voted the greatest Britons of all time in 2002. Churchill was voted number 1 greatest British person of all time. Churchill in Britian is the same as what Lincoln in USA. Yes on the left there are a few critics of Churchill, but World War 2 is the single most talked about , celebrated and important event in British history. Churchill is seen as some sort of embodiment of British bulldog spirit. No one and I mean no politician or public figure is put up on a pedestal as Churchill. Shakespeare, The Beatles , England winning the World cup are all honoured in Britain, but beating Hitler in World War 2 is so much part of British identity. And Brexit actually is rooted in World War 2 nostalgia. They still think there fighting the Germans in World War 2. Its a country obsessed with with its past. Its never going to rule the world again , never probaly produce a Beatles or a Shakespeare again. Its best days are behind it. Its all about the past for the Brits. And like a person thinking and talking and living in the past it is all counter productive. Its a a sad state of affairs. Most Brits u meet are normal sound people. But their media , politicans and education system have sold them a pup. It really is a country having a mini nervous breakdown. But Churchill and World War 2 has a big role in this Brexit experiment. He is seen as the Daddy of Brexit , even though Churchill was very pro European cooperation and one of few people who was pushing an early idea of European union. If Churchill was around today he would have been a remainer. But again Brexit is based on lies and distortion of facts and fabrications.
Brexit is backward , inward, conservative , nationalistic, jingoistic ,narrow minded and hyped up and all wrapped up in union jack. Its British jingoism on steriods. Terrible pity as its ordinary people not the media or Tories who will suffer.

Anyway here r
The top ten Britons of all Time voted by the Brits
10 Oliver Cromwell
9 Admiral Nelson
8 John Lennon
7 Elizabeth 1st
6 Isac Newton
5 William Shakespeare
4 Charles Darwin
3 Prince Diana
2 Brunel
1 Winston Churchill