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Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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    #4622
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Allinall


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Boris masterplan is starting to show. Papers explaining how he plans to avoid the extension request.

    What papers?

    Link?


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    #4623
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    davedanon wrote: »
    You mean 'disregarding old laws'? You know it doesn't work that way, right? It was explained to you earlier. The laws have to be repealed. A vote is involved...it's a democratic process, not a fascistic/totalitarian one, such as you describe.


    https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/parliamentary-sovereignty/

    Its all in that link. Lets say Boris wins the election, he will have a huge majority. He can, using parliamentary sovereignty, remove the law being proposed. I might add, it is still not law yet. He could advise the queen tomorow not to pass it. It could be subject to legal challenge before it is passed.


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    #4624
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/parliamentary-sovereignty/

    Its all in that link. Lets say Boris wins the election, he will have a huge majority. He can, using parliamentary sovereignty, remove the law being proposed. I might add, it is still not law yet. He could advise the queen tomorow not to pass it. It could be subject to legal challenge before it is passed.

    What makes you think he will have a “huge majority “?

    How many parliamentary votes has he won since becoming PM?


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    #4625
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Allinall wrote: »
    You made the claim.

    What exactly did Tony Blair do?

    See my post about parlimentary sovereinty. I am trying to find links about Tony Blair using it. My memory is that he did, I may be wrong. Give me a few hours


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    #4626
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    See my post about parlimentary sovereinty. I am trying to find links about Tony Blair using it. My memory is that he did, I may be wrong. Give me a few hours

    Take your time.


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    #4627
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Allinall wrote: »
    What makes you think he will have a “huge majority “?

    How many parliamentary votes has he won since becoming PM?

    If he teams up with Farage he will have a fairly big majority. Contrary to what your reading in the papers and watching on BBC/Sky news, the British people want to leave


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    #4628
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,187 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    If he teams up with Farage he will have a fairly big majority. Contrary to what your reading in the papers and watching on BBC/Sky news, the British people want to leave
    How many seats do you think the brexit party will win?...
    Quick Google on oddschecker...the favourite is 0.


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    #4629
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Even if the Tories do get a majority, are there enough of them that would support a no deal who would back the vote to repeal the recent legislation. Recent events would suggest otherwise.


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    #4630
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Boris masterplan is starting to show. Papers explaining how he plans to avoid the extension request.

    Link please


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    #4631
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    If he teams up with Farage he will have a fairly big majority. Contrary to what your reading in the papers and watching on BBC/Sky news, the British people want to leave

    A majority in line with the referendum?

    How many seats does that equate to?
    Hardly fairly big.

    Any answer to my second question above?


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    #4632
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    It's worth noting that the Brexit party currently has no candidates or party machinery. Basically Nigel will round up the first couple of hundred nutters that assemble if he does need candidates.


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    #4633
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    gmisk wrote: »
    How many seats do you think the brexit party will win?...

    No idea. They will win some in Labor strongholds after last week. Take a look at the polls (im not a big fan of polls but it should give you some idea)


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    #4634
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    davedanon wrote: »
    It's worth noting that the Brexit party currently has no candidates or party machinery. Basically Nigel will round up the first couple of hundred nutters that assemble if he does need candidates.

    He has over 600 candidates and he has tonnes of funding. They are ready

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/07/revealed-nigel-farages-election-pact-offer-tories-defeat-corbyn/amp/

    Paywalled but the relevant info is there


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    #4635
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/parliamentary-sovereignty/

    Its all in that link. Lets say Boris wins the election, he will have a huge majority. He can, using parliamentary sovereignty, remove the law being proposed. I might add, it is still not law yet. He could advise the queen tomorow not to pass it. It could be subject to legal challenge before it is passed.

    your link says nothing of the sort. the link backs up what davedanon is saying.
    he cannot just ignore laws passed by previous parliaments. he would have to repeal the law via parliament. and a monarch has not refused royal assent for over 300 years. it will not be happening with this bill.


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    #4636
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,296 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    490189.png

    If Jamie is upset about that probably means almost nobody else is. :)


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    #4637
    Sonny678
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭Sonny678


    Aegir wrote:
    It could be that, or it could be the fact the there are a lot of people in the UK who still remember the thousands of loved ones that were killed or injured and recognize the fact that for a large number of people, it is still in living memory.

    Aegir wrote:
    Or the descendants of the 80,000 Jewish refugees that came to the UK still think it is a good idea to remember why they ended up there?

    Aegir wrote:
    But yeah it could be some **** about nostalgia I guess.


    Buts thats all part of it. U r right its part of living memory , so many peoples families were effected. Its all the above and more. It is the biggest event in British history . That effected every level of British society. Most families in Britian have some sort of connection to World War 2. U r right. But something that ended 74 years ago there is nostalgia also that plays a part. An era when Britian had power. Britian won a global war. Its a pretty massive event for any country. Its complicated and interwoven in British society on so many levels.

    People have a personal connection to the war through family member , but also Britian celebrates , talks about it like no other event in their history. If u talk about something that happened 74 years ago of course there is going to be some sort of nostalgia, in that this was the last time Britian really was a Superpower. As I said its complcated..But World War 2 has a massive important place in British identity and society like no other event. Thats a fact. The same way French revolution has in France or the war of Independence or civil war in America. And I would WW 2 has an even bigger part to play in British identity. Look at the poppy. How that has grown in popularity and how people have been criticised for not wearing one. Its still an emotional subject for many Brits. They won 2 World wars. And many of their people suffered and lost love ones in those world wars. And it wasnt for to belong to a German strong EU. German v British is underneath allot of this anti EU sentiment. The amount of comments that reference war when Germany is mentioned it is telling. Britain won the war but has never really come to terms with the new Europe that emerged after the war and their place in the new Europe.
    Simply put WW 2 is central to understanding everything Britian has done since 1945 when it comes to foriegn affairs.


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    #4638
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,187 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    No idea. They will win some in Labor strongholds after last week. Take a look at the polls (im not a big fan of polls but it should give you some idea)
    It's fptp though...not PR.

    The brexit party are probably more likely to take votes away from the conservatives as well.


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    #4639
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    No idea. They will win some in Labor strongholds after last week. Take a look at the polls (im not a big fan of polls but it should give you some idea)

    You say “no idea”, yet claim they would have a “huge majority “ ?

    I call utter bull****e.

    Come back when you have a coherent argument.


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    #4640
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    If he teams up with Farage he will have a fairly big majority. Contrary to what your reading in the papers and watching on BBC/Sky news, the British people want to leave

    If the Brexit Party run in Johnson's constituency I would give him about a 50/50 chance of not even returning as an MP.


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    #4641
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    I see the Tories are planning to run a candidate in Bercow's constituency. Yet another affront.


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    #4642
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,187 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    davedanon wrote: »
    I see the Tories are planning to run a candidate in Bercow's constituency. Yet another affront.
    Wow... has that ever happened?!

    I would say a lot of the turfed out conservatives will run as independents and win (e.g. Hammond)


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    #4643
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    davedanon wrote: »
    I see the Tories are planning to run a candidate in Bercow's constituency. Yet another affront.

    a very dangerous precedent to set.


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    #4644
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Boris masterplan is starting to show. Papers explaining how he plans to avoid the extension request.

    Even if they do manage to drive the bus off a cliff they'll still have to come back to the EU for a trade agreement and the first three demands from the EU will be:

    1. Pay your €39bn bill
    2. Guarantee no border in Ireland
    3. Guarantee EU citizens' rights in Britain

    .. then we'll talk about trade.


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    #4645
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,904 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    He has over 600 candidates and he has tonnes of funding. They are ready

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/07/revealed-nigel-farages-election-pact-offer-tories-defeat-corbyn/amp/

    Paywalled but the relevant info is there




    That implies that Brexiters wouldn't get anything unless they do an agreement with Tories where Brexit candidates don't run against Tory candidates in return for Tory candidates not running against them in some Labour-held constituencies.



    It wouldn't be difficult to find 600 nutters or dodgy scammers in a place the size of the UK..............especially if the few of their MEPs who were being pushed forward and given airtime are anything to go by.....Whatever happened to the ex-Cambridge Analytica MEP one who was caught out lying and tried to silence the interviewer by threatening libel action and ending the interview by calling her solicitor? I subsequently saw her being trotted out on another panel show and not a word was said to her.


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    #4646
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Even if they do manage to drive the bus off a cliff they'll still have to come back to the EU for a trade agreement and the first three demands from the EU will be:

    1. Pay your €39bn bill
    2. Guarantee no border in Ireland
    3. Guarantee EU citizens' rights in Britain

    .. then we'll talk about trade.

    They have already done that on 2 and 3 and number one is subject to a deal


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    #4647
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,904 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Even if they do manage to drive the bus off a cliff they'll still have to come back to the EU for a trade agreement and the first three demands from the EU will be:

    1. Pay your €39bn bill
    2. Guarantee no border in Ireland
    3. Guarantee EU citizens' rights in Britain

    .. then we'll talk about trade.




    Don't be silly. Sure that would be the second easiest deal in history....although I think we have established that it's better to have no trade deals - or deals of any kind.


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    #4648
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    gmisk wrote: »
    Wow... has that ever happened?!

    I would say a lot of the turfed out conservatives will run as independents and win (e.g. Hammond)

    They won't win, jeysus.

    People will vote Tory in Tory safe seats and vote for someone who has a chance of being in an actual government. This isn't Ireland with an mix of meaningless independents.


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    #4649
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,904 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    They have already done that on 2 and 3 and number one is subject to a deal




    Number 1 is not subject to anything.


    Granted it is no more enforceable than any other sovereign obligation, but a default will have disastrous consequences for the UK. (Plenty of contracts and obligations would have cross-default provisions....which means that if the UK is deemed to default it will trigger a lot of chaos in their debt markets). If you want to know what a sovereign default can do to a country, have a read up on what happened to Argentina


    Could you enlighten us on the plans within the UK to stop EU goods, and people, being smuggled into the UK via Northern Ireland via the NI border? Especially given that they have ruled out having checks on anything traveling between NI and Britain.

    Might be a handy little business for us here - pick up boatloads of refugees from Calais, bring them across to Dublin port, load them onto buses and drive up to Belfast and let them out. I'm sure France would give us a few quid for it and we could also charge the individuals a few quid as well for their passage.


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    #4650
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Link please

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/08/boris-johnson-draws-plan-legally-stop-brexit-extension-mps-vote/

    It will work


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    #4651
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,187 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    They have already done that on 2 and 3 and number one is subject to a deal
    That is just not true they might have said there will be no hard border...but they have said a lot of things....they also seem to have no clue how to do it other than "technology" which doesn't exist, 3 is in no way sorted there have been mentioned that existing EU citizens will be able to stay work etc only...and again there are no guarantees...it's all very wishy washy from the conservatives


This discussion has been closed.
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